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Cameron to curb welfare entitlements for migrants - Should Ireland follow suit?

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    #602
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    end of the road wrote: »
    ireland never was a soft touch, we have a very restrictive emigration policy, very few actually get asylum here, most who get any other residentsy are from EU countries.

    Very few actually go through the proper asylum system the majority registered as seeking asylum have never followed through with the process ,and even if you do go through the process and say a refused asylum they still stay here,
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    #603
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »
    I love how you quote only the parts of a post which suit you.

    He's just getting to the crux of the matter. Boil down the argument to the bones of it & we get a pretty good idea of what people are actually saying.


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    #604
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    twinQuins wrote: »
    I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark here and assume that your real problem is one of the 'indigenous' population of Irish people being overshadowed by other ethnicities.

    Would that be right? And if not please feel free to actually explain what your problem is.



    And the problem with that is...

    I remember 11 years ago in the US Texas to be specific where there was a vote on changing the state language from English to Spanish as the children of illegal immigrants out numbered the American kids by 65+% caused massive uproar
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    #605
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Gatling wrote: »
    On theory I posted where whole population could be completely made a minority through unchecked migration
    Would it actually matter as the majority could have laws to change language, flags ,and government representations,

    So these people can't become Irish?


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    #606
    twinQuins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭twinQuins


    Gatling wrote: »
    Ignorance must be bliss

    I don't see what that has to do with the questions I asked. Are you going to bother clarifying?


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    #607
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    twinQuins wrote: »
    I don't see what that has to do with the questions I asked. Are you going to bother clarifying?

    What was your question .

    No and no

    Answered
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    #608
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Gatling wrote: »
    What was your question .

    No and no

    Answered


    You stated

    On theory I posted where whole population could be completely made a minority through unchecked migration
    Would it actually matter as the majority could have laws to change language, flags ,and government representations,

    Are you saying these people can't become Irish?


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    #609
    twinQuins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭twinQuins


    Okay.

    What are you saying then?


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    #610
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    I'm saying what I've said all along on this thread
    Welfare abuse by non national's (now not all non national's)
    Just the people who come here just for the welfare benefits and free social housing and have no intention of ever working or contributing as a whole ,needs to be brought to an end
    The same goes for our own welfare leeches
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    #611
    not yet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    Phoebas wrote: »
    Immigrants by and large are net contributors.
    They tend to come here after their education is complete (paid for by their home countries), they tend to work, they tend to be young (and use less health services). And then they often go home before they become elderly.

    Obviously, if you use only those immigrants who are using social supports as your measure, then you would get skewed results.

    100,000+ is quiet a measure wouldn't you say.......


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    #612
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Gatling wrote: »
    I'm saying what I've said all along on this thread
    Welfare abuse by non national's (now not all non national's)
    Just the people who come here just for the welfare benefits and free social housing and have no intention of ever working or contributing as a whole ,needs to be brought to an end
    The same goes for our own welfare leeches

    You've said a lot more than that.

    You stated earlier
    On theory I posted where whole population could be completely made a minority through unchecked migration
    Would it actually matter as the majority could have laws to change language, flags ,and government representations,

    Are you saying these people can't become Irish?


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    #613
    not yet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    johnty56 wrote: »
    I could be wrong but I do believe the majority in Fingal in social housing/in receipt of rent allowance are non nationals.. I believe it is in the order of 52% or something like that..

    Ah ya see you cannot just ''believe'' you got to back it up with solid independent data.

    Seeing stuff first hand does not count nor does hearing from people their first hand accounts, nope, needs to be an independent report verified by 3 sources. now how we get this I really don't know seeing as my government have never explained to me since 2001 what exactly what was happening.


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    #614
    mattjack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭mattjack


    Gatling wrote: »
    I'm saying what I've said all along on this thread
    Welfare abuse by non national's (now not all non national's)
    Just the people who come here just for the welfare benefits and free social housing and have no intention of ever working or contributing as a whole ,needs to be brought to an end
    The same goes for our own welfare leeches

    What should we do with our welfare leech's ?


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    #615
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    mattjack wrote: »
    What should we do with our welfare leech's ?

    Cut them off completely no rent allowances no social housing ,you want help contribute first ,we have generation's of families who have never even attempted to work but yet live comfortable lives as there supported cradle to the grave,
    That's plain wrong
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    #616
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    not yet wrote: »
    100,000+ is quiet a measure wouldn't you say.......
    No


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    #617
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Gatling wrote: »
    Cut them off completely no rent allowances no social housing ,you want help contribute first ,we have generation's of families who have never even attempted to work but yet live comfortable lives as there supported cradle to the grave,
    That's plain wrong

    Jaysus, you seem to be terribly afraid to answer a straightforward question.....

    You stated earlier
    On theory I posted where whole population could be completely made a minority through unchecked migration
    Would it actually matter as the majority could have laws to change language, flags ,and government representations,

    Are you saying these people can't become Irish?


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    #618
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Nodin wrote: »
    Jaysus, you seem to be terribly afraid to answer a straightforward question.....

    You stated earlier



    Are you saying these people can't become Irish?

    These people kids are Irish they can't become what they already are
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    #619
    not yet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    Phoebas wrote: »
    No

    Sweet jesus, what figure would you say is a measure then 1 million.

    A country this size to have 100,000+ non nationals on the dole is complete madness, and yeah I'll get the ''but the payed their taxes'' yes I agree. But paying taxes for a couple of years should not entitle you to dole for a lifetime.


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    #620
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Gatling wrote: »
    These people kids are Irish they can't become what they already are

    So whats all this nonsense about
    On theory I posted where whole population could be completely made a minority through unchecked migration
    Would it actually matter as the majority could have laws to change language, flags ,and government representations,

    and
    Our system basically could lead to colonization by stealth


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    #621
    Icepick
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭Icepick


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    It's shocking to learn that there are over 30,000 illegals in this country, I hadn't realised the problem was that bad.
    If you are against foreigners on welfare, then 'illegals' are what you want as they aren't entitled to any despite being economically active.


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    #622
    Icepick
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭Icepick


    MAR86 wrote: »
    I was studying (still am) therefore I always worked legally in Ireland. I think you shouldn't make claims like that, if you don't know the background.
    WayneMolloy would end up with 0 posts then.


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    #623
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    not yet wrote: »
    Sweet jesus, what figure would you say is a measure then 1 million.

    A country this size to have 100,000+ non nationals on the dole is complete madness, and yeah I'll get the ''but the payed their taxes'' yes I agree. But paying taxes for a couple of years should not entitle you to dole for a lifetime.
    100,000+ non nationals haven't been on the dole for a lifetime, nor will they be.

    They move from their home countries in order to improve their lives, but often work in low end jobs, which are worse effected in a recession. As the economic conditions improve, these unemployed immigrants will get back to work.


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    #624
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Nodin wrote: »
    So whats all this nonsense about



    and

    What are you spouting on about
    Cherry picking your multi quotes rather than actually engaging in discussion,
    What's next do you want my IDF fanclub membership
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    #625
    2Mad2BeMad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,790 ✭✭✭2Mad2BeMad


    Phoebas wrote: »
    100,000+ non nationals haven't been on the dole for a lifetime, nor will they be.

    They move from their home countries in order to improve their lives, but often work in low end jobs, which are worse effected in a recession. As the economic conditions improve, these unemployed immigrants will get back to work.

    yes get back to work but still work for feck all leaving every other unemployed irish national unemployed still
    go into the city centre
    go into every retail shop
    guarrentee foreigners out number the irish massively on employment


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    #626
    not yet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    Phoebas wrote: »
    100,000+ non nationals haven't been on the dole for a lifetime, nor will they be.

    They move from their home countries in order to improve their lives, but often work in low end jobs, which are worse effected in a recession. As the economic conditions improve, these unemployed immigrants will get back to work.

    Ah that's good so.


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    #627
    crockholm
    Registered Users Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭crockholm


    Phoebas wrote: »
    100,000+ non nationals haven't been on the dole for a lifetime, nor will they be.

    They move from their home countries in order to improve their lives, but often work in low end jobs, which are worse effected in a recession. As the economic conditions improve, these unemployed immigrants will get back to work.

    That could be a problem as an economic recovery is still a long way off,yet all the while,many of those entitled to welfare will stay due to a generous welfare system,thus prolonging the problem.Poland is still in a construction boom, yet it is not overly difficult to find an unemployed Polish builder in any area of the country.I guess it can boil down to whether or not you see the unemployed non-Irish as our responsibility or not, I happen to believe in a compromise of sorts,namely, assistance-but for a set period.


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    #628
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    not yet wrote: »
    A country this size to have 100,000+ non nationals on the dole is complete madness...
    I just checked the live register figures for February - the figure for non Irish nationals is 76,829.


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    #629
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    2Mad2BeMad wrote: »
    yes get back to work but still work for feck all leaving every other unemployed irish national unemployed still
    go into the city centre
    go into every retail shop
    guarrentee foreigners out number the irish massively on employment
    Like I said, they are motivated to work. The same motivation that led them to leave their home countries in the first place makes them less likely to choose welfare payments over paid employment

    Unemployed Irish people need to be able to compete for the available jobs.


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    #630
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    crockholm wrote: »
    That could be a problem as an economic recovery is still a long way off,yet all the while,many of those entitled to welfare will stay due to a generous welfare system,thus prolonging the problem.Poland is still in a construction boom, yet it is not overly difficult to find an unemployed Polish builder in any area of the country.I guess it can boil down to whether or not you see the unemployed non-Irish as our responsibility or not, I happen to believe in a compromise of sorts,namely, assistance-but for a set period.
    I'd have no problem with that as long as it applied across the board.


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    #631
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Gatling wrote: »
    What are you spouting on about
    Cherry picking your multi quotes rather than actually engaging in discussion,
    What's next do you want my IDF fanclub membership


    What's cherry picked about them?

    That one about "colonisation by stealth" was a full post.

    Why not explain yourself, instead of just rambling on and on?


This discussion has been closed.
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