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Cameron to curb welfare entitlements for migrants - Should Ireland follow suit?

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    #272
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    What can I say? You waxing lyrical about how great the place is, has me sold. I hope to be nationality number 71 on the list.

    Il learn to do a bit of samba or something like that and enrich you all, culturally, with my presence.

    the only thing you could enrich with your horeshít is roses!


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    #273
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    youtube! wrote: »
    As a matter of interest if for example I as an Irish citizen decide to emigrate to another EU country,or even more specifically another country with Euro as the currency, let's say Germany as a perfect example, if I work there for a year or two and then become unemployed am I entitled to

    a) claim JB (or equivalent) and after one year claim

    b) A medical card or equivalent

    c) The equivalent of JA

    d) be eligible for a house

    e) to be entitled to do all this on a permanent basis as long as I need to?

    These are not loaded questions because I honestly don't know the answers can someone please enlighten me?

    As long as you satisfy the relevant rules in Germany, said rules must be the same for you and any German national. Then yes you qualify for what ever a German Citizen would get. In Germany like I assume the rest of the EU the Habitual Residence rule will apply. That usually requires a number of tests, length of time in the country, by looking at case law two years is usually sufficient. There is also a requirement that your intention is to remain in Germany, this can be show by having put down serious roots in the area etc.

    The EU is founded on three very basic principles, 1 free movement of goods (trade is good) 2 free movement of services (again trade is good) there can be no barrier to goods and services within the EU, the final strand is free movement of workers, by treating eu immigrants differently to your own people you are not allowing free movement of workers. A thing a lot of people forget is this are not social rights they are economic rights.

    An example of free movement in action. Education is included in free movement of persons. Scotland introduced free fees for its Students a few years back, any person from another EU state has the right to avail of that right if accepted in a Scotish University. But persons holding a British Passport that is people from England, Wales or NI don't get that right as they are not exercising movement over a border. Hence why a number of people in NI opted for an Irish Passport, to get free fees in Scotland. I see that scotland is closing the loophole this year, by requiring a 3 month residency test.

    "However, under the new legislation, dual nationality university applicants from the rest of the UK will be required to prove that they have lived in another EU member state for at least three months before qualifying to have their tuition fees paid."

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/education/scottish-government-blocks-free-education-for-irish-passport-holders-from-northern-ireland-28864069.html

    If when living and working in Germany, you decide to apply for Social Housing, you can as long as you satisfy the same tests as a German National. If for example the German Government, said the earning threshold for a German was a maximum of €50k a year but a EU national lost the right to apply if earning more than €20k a year. That would not allow free movement of workers as it would be easier for the German to work and get social housing.


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    #274
    MAR86
    Registered Users Posts: 59 ✭✭MAR86


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    Does your country provide free gaffs and welfare benefits for newcomers?

    Does it have 70 different nationalities on one smaller areas housing list?


    I don't get a free gaff, I pay 1200 euro in rent for a 2bed apartment. There's no such thing as providing welfare benefits on arrival, you have to work, prove your residence, than lose your job, than apply and see if you qualify. You can't just get off the plane and head straight to the dole office...I mean you probably can, but you would be told to f.off straight away.


    And you keep bringing up this 70 nationalities thing....if they are on the list does it mean they will automatically get a "free gaff" or does it mean that they're on a list and that's all?


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    #275
    cournioni
    Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 12,739 Mod ✭✭✭✭cournioni


    Cut the welfare for the lazy cnuts in this country in general and we are on the right tracks. Too many people drawing dole with no intention of working Irish and non-Irish. They're the ones that usually ruin it for the honest people that are out of work and trying their best to earn a living.


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    #276
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    MAR86 wrote: »
    I don't get a free gaff, I pay 1200 euro in rent for a 2bed apartment. There's no such thing as providing welfare benefits on arrival, you have to work, prove your residence, than lose your job, than apply and see if you qualify. You can't just get off the plane and head straight to the dole office...I mean you probably can, but you would be told to f.off straight away.


    And you keep bringing up this 70 nationalities thing....if they are on the list does it mean they will automatically get a "free gaff" or does it mean that they're on a list and that's all?

    I asked if your country provides welfare benefits to newcomers like the Irish state. You didnt answer so I skimmed through your relatively few posts..... to compare the two countries policies.

    And lo and behold, you were working in Ireland as an illegal.If you can obtain a pps number and work illegally, then I am sure you can obtain a pps number and claim illegally.

    :(


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    #277
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    WileyCoyote wrote: »
    the only thing you could enrich with your horeshít is roses!

    Cool beans, buddy.

    You were decrying the asylum process earlier and asking why it took so long to process the applicants claims. Proably due to most of them pulling crap like this - http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/twothirds-of-failed-asylum-seekers-had-used-false-identities-26855916.html


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    #278
    MAR86
    Registered Users Posts: 59 ✭✭MAR86


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    I asked if your country provides welfare benefits to newcomers like the Irish state. You didnt answer so I skimmed through your relatively few posts..... to compare the two countries policies.

    And lo and behold, you were working in Ireland as an illegal.If you can obtain a pps number and work illegally, then I am sure you can obtain a pps number and claim illegally.

    :(

    Just to answer your post and I won't bother replying anymore.

    I am working legally, just as a matter of fact I am Romanian, I don't need anything besides a PPS number in order to work legally..that's all that's required from me.

    As far as I know (but haven't been in the situation) my country does offer free housing to those that are really in need of it, I don't know about immigrants though to be honest. My reply was a response to someone who said that social welfare payments should be limited to the amount you would receive in your native country. I don't agree with this because I pay tax at Irish rates (of course) and if I was to lose my job (working here for 3 years now) I wouldn't be able to survive on the amount that I would receive in my home country (difference currency as well) because my expenses, rent, ESB, phone, internet, would still be the same.

    Hope this clears things a bit for you, I shouldn't explain myself to strangers on internet, but here I am :)


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    #279
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    MAR86 wrote: »
    Just to answer your post and I won't bother replying anymore.

    I am working legally, just as a matter of fact I am Romanian, I don't need anything besides a PPS number in order to work legally..that's all that's required from me.

    As far as I know (but haven't been in the situation) my country does offer free housing to those that are really in need of it, I don't know about immigrants though to be honest. My reply was a response to someone who said that social welfare payments should be limited to the amount you would receive in your native country. I don't agree with this because I pay tax at Irish rates (of course) and if I was to lose my job (working here for 3 years now) I wouldn't be able to survive on the amount that I would receive in my home country (difference currency as well) because my expenses, rent, ESB, phone, internet, would still be the same.

    Hope this clears things a bit for you, I shouldn't explain myself to strangers on internet, but here I am :)

    You werent paying taxes if you were working illegally. You only became legal when the geebags in the dail eased restrictions on Romanian/Bulgarian citizens a year early at the start of January. Up until then, you required a work permit. You ignored this, obtained a pps number, which you werent entiled to, and worked illegally.

    Bit rich to be complaining that it would be unfair if you didnt receive full welfare- when you had no qualms about illegally working in the state up until relatively recently.


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    #280
    MAR86
    Registered Users Posts: 59 ✭✭MAR86


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    You werent paying taxes if you were working illegally. You only became legal when the geebags in the dail eased restrictions on Romanian/Bulgarian citizens a year early at the start of January.

    Bit rich to be complaining that it would be unfair if you didnt receive full welfare- when you had no qualms about illegally working in the state up until relatively recently.

    I was studying (still am) therefore I always worked legally in Ireland. I think you shouldn't make claims like that, if you don't know the background.


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    #281
    Crann na Beatha
    Registered Users Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Crann na Beatha


    This post has been deleted.


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    #282
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    MAR86 wrote: »
    I was studying (still am) therefore I always worked legally in Ireland. I think you shouldn't make claims like that, if you don't know the background.

    That is a lie. Reread your posts. You admitted to working illegally.

    You just said a minute ago that you were working here for three years. Sure.

    Anyway, it doesnt really matter now. Just a bit hypocritical, is all.


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    #283
    token101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,050 ✭✭✭token101


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    Why is deporting people nonsense? It seems that the Australians have the right idea.

    It's nonsense because it's irrational and stupid. You don't just give someone residency here and then decide to pull it because a problem has been caused that they had no part in. I couldn't care less how long people stay in the country looking for work as long they're here legally, but I don't want to have to pay extra taxes to facilitate it. If they get work, fair play. If not, well they'll eventually have to face the prospect I have to face when my contract here is up. Cut the amount spent on welfare and cut the ridiculous taxes. Workers will have more disposable income, ensure that it's spent in Ireland by cutting VAT and you'll eventually see more jobs.


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    #284
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    Phoenix wrote: »
    Have you ever traveled outside of Ireland Wayne?

    No, ive never left the parish.

    :)


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    #285
    Crann na Beatha
    Registered Users Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Crann na Beatha


    This post has been deleted.


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    #286
    MAR86
    Registered Users Posts: 59 ✭✭MAR86


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    That is a lie. Reread your posts. You admitted to working illegally.

    You just said a minute ago that you were working here for three years. Sure.

    Anyway, it doesnt really matter now. Just a bit hypocritical, is all.

    I think you can't read properly, I never said I worked here illegally!!! I was working here for 3 years, to work legally you had to either study or to apply for a work permit! These were the 2 options! I went for the 1st because it was in my interest anyway to study and have an Irish degree.


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    #287
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    token101 wrote: »
    It's nonsense because it's irrational and stupid. You don't just give someone residency here and then decide to pull it because a problem has been caused that they had no part in. I couldn't care less how long people stay in the country looking for work as long they're here legally, but I don't want to have to pay extra taxes to facilitate it. If they get work, fair play. If not, well they'll eventually have to face the prospect I have to face when my contract here is up. Cut the amount spent on welfare and cut the ridiculous taxes. Workers will have more disposable income, ensure that it's spent in Ireland by cutting VAT and you'll eventually see more jobs.

    It takes 5 years to gain permanent residency here iirc. Once someone has worked here for five years they can get residency/citizenship and all that lark. No problem, once they obtain either they should be treated just like a native. But someone here a year or two should get a couple of months welfare max, and if they are still unemployed after that- a ticket home. Definitely not housing and all the other goodies.


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    #288
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    MAR86 wrote: »
    I think you can't read properly, I never said I worked here illegally!!! I was working here for 3 years, to work legally you had to either study or to apply for a work permit! These were the 2 options! I went for the 1st because it was in my interest anyway to study and have an Irish degree.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=73847707

    Post from 18 months were you admit to working but not having the right to work I.e working illegally.

    I wouldnt of posted that if you werent making snide remarks.


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    #289
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    MAR86 wrote: »
    And you keep bringing up this 70 nationalities thing....if they are on the list does it mean they will automatically get a "free gaff" or does it mean that they're on a list and that's all?

    Its means they get a gaff ,usually infront of Irish families most of the time they scream discrimination if there not housed after a certain amount of time
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #290
    token101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,050 ✭✭✭token101


    Gatling wrote: »
    Its means they get a gaff ,usually infront of Irish families most of the time they scream discrimination if there not housed after a certain amount of time

    There's a list so that's bollocks. First come, first served. **** your nationality.
    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    But someone here a year or two should get a couple of months welfare max, and if they are still unemployed after that- a ticket home. Definitely not housing and all the other goodies.

    I doubt that happens to be honest. What goodies do you mean?


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    #291
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    Gatling wrote: »
    Its means they get a gaff ,usually infront of Irish families most of the time they scream discrimination if there not housed after a certain amount of time

    Bolloxology


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    #292
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    WileyCoyote wrote: »
    Bolloxology

    The larger families generally get bumped to the top. Which is pretty damn wreckless when one thinks about.

    There was murder over this in your locale not so long ago.

    EDIT: Heres the link - http://www.kierandennison.com/2011/02/over-half-on-fingal-housing-list-are.html


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    #293
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    WileyCoyote wrote: »
    Bolloxology

    You obviously know all about the housing list, then explain how people are in the country less than 6-7 years are housed already yet we have families waiting 10+ years waiting to be housed to the point most actually give up hope of been housed
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #294
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Gatling wrote: »
    You obviously know all about the housing list, then explain how people are in the country less than 6-7 years are housed already yet we have families waiting 10+ years waiting to be housed to the point most actually give up hope of been housed


    Bolloxology part deux.

    Unless you've concrete, verified proof?


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    #295
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Nodin wrote: »
    Bolloxology part deux.

    Unless you've concrete, verified proof?

    Its public fact

    Actually prove it isn't happening
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #296
    Crann na Beatha
    Registered Users Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Crann na Beatha


    This post has been deleted.


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    #297
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Phoenix wrote: »
    Have you any figures to prove your assertion?because your posts continue to read like some sort of Monty Python sketch

    Retarded argument why not say well everybody who's posts anything to produce writen documented evidence
    To back up a post
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #298
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    Phoenix wrote: »
    Have you any figures to prove your assertion?because your posts continue to read like some sort of Monty Python sketch

    What exactly do you want to know? Il root out the links.

    Fire away.


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    #299
    Reekwind
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Reekwind


    Gatling wrote: »
    Its public fact

    Actually prove it isn't happening
    How can someone prove the non-existence of something? You've made the assertion and now the burden of proof lies on you


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    #300
    Crann na Beatha
    Registered Users Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Crann na Beatha


    This post has been deleted.


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    #301
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Reekwind wrote: »
    How can someone prove the non-existence of something? You've made the assertion and now the burden of proof lies on you

    So you don't live in a council estate or are on a council housing list
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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