Cameron to curb welfare entitlements for migrants - Should Ireland follow suit?

Nodin · 01-04-2013 8:34pm

Gatling wrote: »

Again its only your opinion it doesn't happen

And again, you don't seem to grasp the very basics of how this works. You've made a claim, its for you to back it up. You haven't.

Gatling · 01-04-2013 8:51pm

You repeatedly claimed something

You can't
'You can't
You can't

So basically your opinion has offered nothing to a general discussion other than you can't ,discuss why you can't arrive and get social welfare benefit's
and yes I backed myself up with CSO data as has other posters ,
After all a discussion forum is all about discussion , not just one line opinions ,
So we have no problems with our open door immigrant and social welfare policy ,
Don't fob me off ,
I genuinely want to hear your opinions on both

Nodin · 01-04-2013 8:56pm

Gatling wrote: »

and yes I backed myself up with CSO data as has other posters ,
After all a discussion forum is all about discussion , not just one line opinions ,

CSO has nothing to do with information on what conditions allow people to claim benefits.

Gatling wrote: »

So we have no problems with our open door immigrant and social welfare policy ,
Don't fob me off ,
I genuinely want to hear your opinions on both

We don't have an open door immigration policy. There is free movement within the EU zone.

WayneMolloy · 01-04-2013 8:58pm

Excellent article by Peter Hitchens - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2301743/How-invasion-immigrants-corner-England-mockery-PMs-promise-close-door.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Some of the lads posting in this thread will have a "Hitchens" moment in their later years. Also, like it was for Hitchens, it will be too late by then.

Nodin · 01-04-2013 9:01pm

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Excellent article by Peter Hitchens - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2301743/How-invasion-immigrants-corner-England-mockery-PMs-promise-close-door.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Some of the lads posting in this thread will have a "Hitchens" moment in their later years. Also, like it was for Hitchens, it will be too late by then.

I'm 43, and theres no sign of whatever afflicted the unfortunate Mr Hitchens yet.

WayneMolloy · 01-04-2013 9:06pm

Nodin wrote: »

I'm 43, and theres no sign of whatever afflicted the unfortunate Mr Hitchens yet.

Yeah - but you think it xenophobic to question why there are 70 different nationalities on the united nations of fingal housing list.

The indoctrination is strong in you.

mattjack · 01-04-2013 9:11pm

Nodin wrote: »

I'm 43, and theres no sign of whatever afflicted the unfortunate Mr Hitchens yet.

Are ya ? , so am I .

Nodin · 01-04-2013 9:13pm

mattjack wrote: »

Are ya ? , so am I .

Yep. Together in lifes great decline. There's a happy thought for ye now.

Grand Moff Tarkin · 02-04-2013 12:15am

Nodin wrote: »

WTF has what happens in terms of African social welfare got to do with here?

You can't get off a plane and claim here either.

And why do you use Nigeria as an example?

I love how you quote only the parts of a post which suit you.

WayneMolloy · 02-04-2013 2:26am

mattjack wrote: »

Are ya ? , so am I .

Deadly. Well they say the brits are twenty years ahead of us Irish .

So when Hitchens mentions 1960 revolutionary marxists - hes talking about you boys, in an Irish context.

Have either of you two old lads lived outside of Ireland for a considerable amount of time?

Nodin · 02-04-2013 4:41am

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Deadly. Well they say the brits are twenty years ahead of us Irish .?

I'm sure some anti-Irish bigot does somewhere. Those who agree might feel more comfortable elsewhere.

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Have either of you two old lads lived outside of Ireland for a considerable amount of time?

Actually I haven't. You've some point to make off this, I take it.....

greendom · 02-04-2013 8:27am

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Excellent article by Peter Hitchens - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2301743/How-invasion-immigrants-corner-England-mockery-PMs-promise-close-door.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Some of the lads posting in this thread will have a "Hitchens" moment in their later years. Also, like it was for Hitchens, it will be too late by then.

And a slightly more balanced view than that diatribe from Hitchens...

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/leading-article-the-real-reason-why-britain-needs-immigrants-413493.html

Death and Taxes · 02-04-2013 12:42pm

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Yeah - but you think it xenophobic to question why there are 70 different nationalities on the united nations of fingal housing list.

The indoctrination is strong in you.

Statements like show who is indoctrinated, and btw most of us that actually live in Fingal welcome the diversity of nationalities present here. They make no less a contribution to Fingal than anybody else.

conorhal · 02-04-2013 1:22pm

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Statements like show who is indoctrinated, and btw most of us that actually live in Fingal welcome the diversity of nationalities present here. They make no less a contribution to Fingal than anybody else.

The mere fact that they represent the majority of those requiring the social assistance of subsidised housing, would actually suggest that that's not true. They in fact objectively take far more then they contribute.

conorhal · 02-04-2013 1:25pm

Nodin wrote: »

I'm 43, and theres no sign of whatever afflicted the unfortunate Mr Hitchens yet.

I'd say the following quote describes your attitude to a tee.

"And it was at least partly my own fault. When I was a Revolutionary Marxist, we were all in favour of as much immigration as possible. It wasn’t because we liked immigrants, but because we didn’t like Britain. We saw immigrants – from anywhere – as allies against the staid, settled, conservative society that our country still was at the end of the Sixties. Also, we liked to feel oh, so superior to the bewildered people – usually in the poorest parts of Britain – who found their neighbourhoods suddenly transformed into supposedly ‘vibrant communities’. If they dared to express the mildest objections, we called them bigots."

Much of your stance, as was the case with Hitchins is based on a hatered of the status quo in the country, and instead of either accepting the democratic wishes of the majority, or trying to change the opinion of that majority, you just attempt to subvert it.

Phoebas · 02-04-2013 1:29pm

conorhal wrote: »

The mere fact that they represent the majority of those requiring the social assistance of subsidised housing, would actually suggest that that's not true. They in fact objectively take far more then they contribute.

Immigrants by and large are net contributors.
They tend to come here after their education is complete (paid for by their home countries), they tend to work, they tend to be young (and use less health services). And then they often go home before they become elderly.

Obviously, if you use only those immigrants who are using social supports as your measure, then you would get skewed results.

Death and Taxes · 02-04-2013 2:08pm

conorhal wrote: »

The mere fact that they represent the majority of those requiring the social assistance of subsidised housing, would actually suggest that that's not true. They in fact objectively take far more then they contribute.

Objectivley not! And they do not come anywhere near being a majority requiring social housing in Fingal, try some basic math Number of Social housing units in Fingal divided by number of non Irish social housing tenants.

conorhal · 02-04-2013 2:18pm

Phoebas wrote: »

Immigrants by and large are net contributors.
They tend to come here after their education is complete (paid for by their home countries), they tend to work, they tend to be young (and use less health services). And then they often go home before they become elderly.

Obviously, if you use only those immigrants who are using social supports as your measure, then you would get skewed results.

And those skewing the results clearly should not be here, if we had a sensible immigration policy like that of Australia they wouldn't be, but instead of a logical and sensible immigration policy, we have an ideological one.
As for those that do come and do contribute, economic libertarians might see everybody's contribution to society solely in terms of a balance of payment, but I don't think that immigration should be viewed in those terms, it requires a more holistic approach, and like Hitchens, I agree that mass migration has created a fundamental societal shift that ignores the wishes and rights of the indigenous inhabitants of large areas, to their determent.

Phoebas · 02-04-2013 2:28pm

conorhal wrote: »

And those skewing the results clearly should not be here.

It was you that was skewing the data.

But you can stay.

Gatling · 02-04-2013 2:30pm

Our system basically could lead to colonization by stealth

johnty56 · 02-04-2013 2:56pm

I could be wrong but I do believe the majority in Fingal in social housing/in receipt of rent allowance are non nationals.. I believe it is in the order of 52% or something like that..

mattjack · 02-04-2013 2:59pm

Gatling wrote: »

Our system is basically could lead to colonization by stealth

Myself and yourself share one common point , neither of us know what you're talking about.

Gatling · 02-04-2013 4:55pm

mattjack wrote: »

Myself and yourself share one common point , neither of us know what you're talking about.

Actually it came from a conversation with a friend who is a big Tibet activest ,
Will tibet ever get its freedom from China ,the answer is no ,and why not not to do with a huge army or anything ,it was down to the fact 15million Chinese migrants now live work in tibet making them the majority population ,
In theory we Irish could become a minority in our own country in the next 50 -100 years based off figures half a million migrants came here to live in the last 15-20 years

greendom · 02-04-2013 5:12pm

Gatling wrote: »

Actually it came from a conversation with a friend who is a big Tibet activest ,
Will tibet ever get its freedom from China ,the answer is no ,and why not not to do with a huge army or anything ,it was down to the fact 15million Chinese migrants now live work in tibet making them the majority population ,
In theory we Irish could become a minority in our own country in the next 50 -100 years based off figures half a million migrants came here to live in the last 15-20 years

And when will those migrants or their offspring ever be in the fortunate position to consider themselves Irish, or are they and their yet to be born children and children's children to be ever condemned with the "migrant" tag ?

Nodin · 02-04-2013 5:17pm

conorhal wrote: »

I'd say the following quote describes your attitude to a tee.

..........

Hardly, as it presumes that (1) I'm in favour of unlimited immigration and (2) that those who would arrive would be less conservative to the status quo and of a similar mindset to oneself. If Hitchens genuinely held those thoughts during his youth, he really was overdoing the dope.

conorhal wrote:

And those skewing the results clearly should not be here, if we had a sensible immigration policy like that of Australia they wouldn't be, but instead of a logical and sensible immigration policy, we have an ideological one.

The comparisons with Australia are rather pointless. We're in a free movement agreement with a number of other European states. Your boner for throwing people in camps is unlikely to be satisfied.

gatling wrote:

Our system basically could lead to colonization by stealth

....which is why you're using the Polish form of spelling with "colonisation" there. Their culture is taking over....

Good to see you're keeping the conversation from hysteria though. Fair play.

gatling wrote:

Actually it came from a conversation with a friend who is a big Tibet activest

Chinese colonisation of tibet is by "stealth"? Maybe stealth was badly translated for them.

Gatling · 02-04-2013 5:20pm

greendom wrote: »

And when will those migrants or their offspring ever be in the fortunate position to consider themselves Irish, or are they and their yet to be born children and children's children to be ever condemned with the "migrant" tag ?

On theory I posted where whole population could be completely made a minority through unchecked migration
Would it actually matter as the majority could have laws to change language, flags ,and government representations,

greendom · 02-04-2013 5:26pm

Gatling wrote: »

On theory I posted where whole population could be completely made a minority through unchecked migration
Would it actually matter as the majority could have laws to change language, flags ,and government representations,

Well that's the way democratic societies are supposed to work - that its citizens get to decide on how the country is run. Is that a problem for you ?

end of the road · 02-04-2013 5:32pm

WayneMolloy wrote: »

It would send out a message - Paddyland is no longer a soft touch.

ireland never was a soft touch, we have a very restrictive emigration policy, very few actually get asylum here, most who get any other residentsy are from EU countries.

old hippy · 02-04-2013 5:49pm

Gatling wrote: »

Actually it came from a conversation with a friend who is a big Tibet activest ,
Will tibet ever get its freedom from China ,the answer is no ,and why not not to do with a huge army or anything ,it was down to the fact 15million Chinese migrants now live work in tibet making them the majority population ,
In theory we Irish could become a minority in our own country in the next 50 -100 years based off figures half a million migrants came here to live in the last 15-20 years

Or; Ireland would just absorb them, like any other country does.

twinQuins · 02-04-2013 5:50pm

Gatling wrote: »

On theory I posted where whole population could be completely made a minority through unchecked migration

I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark here and assume that your real problem is one of the 'indigenous' population of Irish people being overshadowed by other ethnicities.

Would that be right? And if not please feel free to actually explain what your problem is.

Would it actually matter as the majority could have laws to change language, flags ,and government representations,

And the problem with that is...

Cameron to curb welfare entitlements for migrants - Should Ireland follow suit?

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