When will the Muslim world relax?

T-K-O · 16-09-2012 3:05pm

K.Flyer wrote: »

You Tube Link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Having read various news reports on the movie e.g. Huffington, Al Jezeera, BBC etc this Sam Bacile is a bit of a Christian Extremist nut job. According to some of the actors their parts were overdubbed later in post production with the inflamatory lines that caused all the trouble. Having watched some of it, and it is barely watchable, you see that this is the case.
I'm not saying that the Muslims who are on the rampage are justified in what they are doing, but this Sam Bacile knew he was going to stir the s**t by putting it out there.
Apparently he has links to the Egyption Coptic Christian Church and has been in trouble before in the states and is barred from internet access.

I dont know the guy and I haven't seen the video. I dont care what they over dubbed it with. It doesn't justify the behaviour.

I remember a comedy show on RTE. I think it was that dude McSavage. He was dressed as a Priest making kids disappear ??- was that for everyone taste,probably not but that's his choice to make the program and those who dont like it do not have to watch it.

Disrespecting prophet X/Y/Z .....it's bull ****

K.Flyer · 16-09-2012 3:27pm

T-K-O wrote: »

... It doesn't justify the behaviour.

Violence Never Solved Anything.

Its not all that long ago when there was an uproar about the movie "The Life of Brian" that led to it being banned in Ireland as well as some other countries. We did not see christians back then go out on the rampage and start killing people over it though.

T-K-O · 16-09-2012 3:31pm

K.Flyer wrote: »

Violence Never Solved Anything.

Its not all that long ago when there was an uproar about the movie "The Life of Brian" that led to it being banned in Ireland as well as some other countries. We did not see christians back then go out on the rampage and start killing people over it though.

Totally agree.

Lantus · 16-09-2012 4:02pm

The ability of any group of people, individuals, or culture to undertake rational or logical thinking stems from their value system which makes all of our perceptions of rational acts different to varying degrees.

Strong religous belief and the adoption of values linked to that will change what that person views as being rational behaviour.

It is perfectly rational for many muslims to seek to avenge blasphemy against muhammad because although you can just ask a man for forgiveness as muhammad is now dead this is not possible. Muslim are obligated to avenge on this insult on his behalf.

Culturally many muslim societys acceptably use very harsh punishments for a wide range of 'acts' that others would not consider criminal in any sense.

If western sociey was educated to a higher level then they would not feel the need to create these pointless films or engage in any activites that would promote this kind of outrage. The freedom to cause other cultures to hate you through ignorant use of your free speech is a pointless endevour and teaches us nothing.

We will never be able to develop as a species and work together if we continue to do these things to others.

On the flip side as I have read blasphamy is not based on the quran but was created by jurists or islamic legal scholars and now enforced under sharia law.

Religion is a very difficult matter to approach because the religous mind is the most rigid and unflexible you can possibly encounter.

"You cannot approach people who think differently with reason and logic if they don't know what that means. First, you have to appeal to their values to start with. If you attack them, you lose them." Jacque Fresco

T-K-O · 16-09-2012 4:11pm

"You cannot approach people who think differently with reason and logic if they don't know what that means. First, you have to appeal to their values to start with. If you attack them, you lose them." Jacque Fresco

Nice quote, IMO that is what the West is currently doing and at this rate to our detriment. One or two Americans product a video and this is the result. That's ridiculous.

Why can't these Muslims in question respect our right in relation freedom of speech. We have already accommodated the East how far do we have to go, where does it stop.

Nodin · 16-09-2012 5:32pm

MaxSteele wrote: »

You saw those protests on the news. A man was surrounded and beaten bloody for questioning out loud the crowd's incitement of hatred and demands for "beheading those who insult islam".
.

And you want to see a march baton charged before anything has happened at all. I'm not seeing you on the moral high ground here.

MaxSteele · 16-09-2012 7:00pm

Nodin wrote: »

And you want to see a march baton charged before anything has happened at all. I'm not seeing you on the moral high ground here.

A march over a slapstick, spoof film by a jewish american thousands of miles away involving death chants, attacking counter protests and rioting with police. Why would you even care if police got heavy handed with these arseholes ?

The mob who trashed O'Connell street back in 2006 had more merit than these protests.

Nodin · 16-09-2012 7:20pm

MaxSteele wrote: »

A march over a slapstick, spoof film by a jewish american thousands of miles away involving death chants, attacking counter protests and rioting with police. Why would you even care if police got heavy handed with these arseholes ?.

As long as a protest is peaceful it should be allowed.

The maker of the film is not "jewish American", and its not intended to be a "slapstick, spoof" film.

Freiheit · 16-09-2012 7:26pm

Yes apologies he is an Egyptian Coptic Christian,based in America,as though it makes one bit of difference though.

We keep on hearing that most Muslims don't support this madness,but I haven't heard their voices.

Nodin · 16-09-2012 7:33pm

Freiheit wrote: »

Yes apologies he is an Egyptian Coptic Christian,based in America,as though it makes one bit of difference though..

It does, really, as if you're going to discuss something you should be at least familiar with the facts.

Freiheit wrote: »

We keep on hearing that most Muslims don't support this madness,but I haven't heard their voices.

Did you bother looking?

Freiheit · 16-09-2012 7:37pm

It was initially reported in the media that the 'producer' of this film was an American based Israeli.

I haven't looked very hard no,but as someone who follows the media,all media on a constant basis,logic from Muslims is in relatively short supply,they do exist but they seem to be a small minority in terms of audible voices.

Nodin · 16-09-2012 7:46pm

Freiheit wrote: »

It was initially reported in the media that the 'producer' of this film was an American based Israeli..

Yep, and things have moved on considerably since.

Freiheit wrote: »

I haven't looked very hard no,.

You'd be amazed how common that not looking it is.
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/09/does-not-represent-us-moving-photos-pro-american-rallies-libya/56803/

Freiheit wrote: »

but as someone who follows the media,all media on a constant basis,logic from Muslims is in relatively short supply,they do exist but they seem to be a small minority in terms of audible voices.

...bearing in mind what these extremists will do to those who oppose them, does it particularily suprise you that some will be reluctant to say anything?

MaxSteele · 16-09-2012 7:51pm

Nodin wrote: »

As long as a protest is peaceful it should be allowed.

The maker of the film is not "jewish American", and its not intended to be a "slapstick, spoof" film.

Except rioting with police and assaulting civilians not part of the protest isn't peaceful.

Sorry a coptic Christian. Might actually explain his reasoning for making it.

Slapstick is a type of broad, physical comedy involving exaggerated, boisterous actions (e.g. a pie in the face), farce, violence and activities which may exceed the boundaries of common sense

The film portrays Mohammed in ridiculous, contradictory terms to his image in the islamic world. Yeah obviously he's trying to get a rise, but mass protests involving deaths, arson on a KFC, Embassy killings and calls to "behead those blah blah".

Sorry but I won't take these backward idiots seriously and neither should any government or police force.

Zillah · 16-09-2012 8:04pm

T-K-O wrote: »

We have already accommodated the East

We what?

losthorizon · 16-09-2012 8:13pm

old_aussie wrote: »

When will the Muslim world relax?

When everyone is a muslim.

Then it will be a battle till there is only one type of muslim, radical sunni or radical shiite

In Nations where historically there is a good mixture of Christians and Muslims you will usually find its the Christians who are the psychos ala Bosnia and Lebanon. Christians should hang their heads in shame for what happened in Bosnia.

16-09-2012 8:18pm

I've been reading about Islamism and the Islamist movement over the past couple of days. Sayyid Qutb is a fascinating figure, and a person who helped give rise to the modern Islamist movement -- arguably a precursor to modern Muslim extremism that most of us associate with militant Islam, and as such partially explanatory of the reactionary responses of some Muslims to films such as the one mentioned in this thread.

Adam Curtis' The Power of Nightmares gives an interesting insight into it all, contrasting the American neo-conservative movement with the rise of Islamism; a good documentary, if taken with a slight pinch of salt.

Nodin · 16-09-2012 8:19pm

MaxSteele wrote: »

Except rioting with police and assaulting civilians not part of the protest isn't peaceful.

......

Going on your earlier statement

MaxSteele wrote: »

I'm surprised at the aussies of all people for even allowing that childish march to go ahead without baton charging the ****ers

you aren't too interested in whether they do so or not.

Gordon · 16-09-2012 8:20pm

Was trying to find a picture of this Nakoula/imbecile dude and found one here.

But what really caught my eye was the following image:

Firstly, wtf is that animal representing Obama, a happy dog?! And secondly, what country's flag is that with the circles and stripes?!

Nodin · 16-09-2012 8:27pm

....strictly speaking, if they're following the wahabi tradition, they shouldn't be drawing any representative image at all, afaik. Haram and all that. Ideally they'll beat the crap out of themselves later.

Jellicoe · 16-09-2012 8:40pm

Some Ass Hole Yanks Vs Some Ass Hole Muslims, what's new ?

old hippy · 16-09-2012 11:23pm

T-K-O wrote: »

You are purposely avoiding the real issue because you know I am correct.

I do not dived the world at all that's the point. I respect others and their beliefs (by the way I am not religions at all)

Do you serious believe eastern countries allow us the same rights that us Europeans allow them. Come off it

The real issue? What is that?

I have been as East as you can go and the quality of life there is often far superior to that of the west.

What do you mean by "eastern countries", exactly?

the_monkey · 17-09-2012 12:26am

T-K-O wrote: »

Obviously you cannot send in the firing squad. Do you ever worry that we (the west) are becoming way too tolerant to behaviour that would have serious consequences if the shoe was on the other foot.

Yep, very worrying the west is being held hostage by this savagery.

Wait till you see the police ARREST the FILMMAKER next - just to appease these backward savages.

decimatio · 17-09-2012 1:33am

old hippy wrote: »

The real issue? What is that?

I have been as East as you can go and the quality of life there is often far superior to that of the west.

What do you mean by "eastern countries", exactly?

I think perhaps he may be referring to the way you are treated there as an outsider compared to the protection minorities enjoy in most of the western world.

It is to the credit of western civilisation that societies in Europe and the US are so accomodating and racism is tackled with such vigour. (No saying there's no racism etc in the western world)

Even looking at a first world country like Japan for example, you can't but realise that they are extremely xenophobic and racist, if not quite in the western sense of the word. You can live there for as long as you like, learn the language, marry a local, learn the culture etc but you will always be an outsider because of your background and race. Even a Japanese-American who doesn't speak a word of the language or know a thing about the culture will be treated more like one of 'them' then someone of another race could ever be.

In the middle East this is also the case. You might be treated quite civily but you are still an outsider and will be treated as such in all situations. Anyone who has being in a legal dispute with a local in any of these countries will realise that they are at an immediate and unofficial yet institutionalised disadvantage.

Obviouly it depends on which country and to degrees but the point is that a minority is treated much more fairly in most western countries than a minority in the rest of the world.

We're not all playing by the same rules. Similar rulebook but the implementation is another story entirely.

Zillah · 17-09-2012 3:02am

the_monkey wrote: »

Wait till you see the police ARREST the FILMMAKER next - just to appease these backward savages.

That won't happen. For all their problems the US is damn good at respecting free speech. In the UK he'd probably be arrested, they won't touch him across the pond.

decimatio · 17-09-2012 3:12am

Zillah wrote: »

That won't happen. For all their problems the US is damn good at respecting free speech. In the UK he'd probably be arrested, they won't touch him across the pond.

Ugh. I really feel sick and sad after reading that.

Canis Lupus · 17-09-2012 3:30am

THey've already taken him in for a chat. There's a chance he has potentially broken parole terms.

Zillah · 17-09-2012 4:41am

decimatio wrote: »

Ugh. I really feel sick and sad after reading that.

Well then go get a bucket:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-19604735

Azhar Ahmed convicted of offensive Facebook message wrote:

The offensive message, which said "all soldiers should die and go to hell", was posted by Ahmed just two days later on 8 March....Ahmed told the court he was only trying to make his point that many other deaths in Afghanistan were being ignored and added he had no idea it would cause so much upset.

He said he replied with apologies to many people who commented on his Facebook page and when some told him they had lost relatives in Afghanistan he realised how serious it was....He will be sentenced later.

He is literally being sent to prison for saying something offensive on the internet.

Zambia · 17-09-2012 4:53am

The riots have prompted outrage across Australia. Andrew Bolts column this morning stated Multiculturalism has lead us to this and should be rethought.

That said Muslim leaders in Australia have called for calm.

What makes me laugh is all those "down with America" nut jobs wearing Nike trainers and receiving riot instructions on their Iphones.

The stupidity of those rioters is mind boggling

Zillah · 17-09-2012 5:01am

Zambia wrote: »

Where did you find that?

Because really

avalon68 · 17-09-2012 5:11am

Its really a shame to see all muslims tarred with the same brush. Several of my colleagues are muslim, all perfectly normal! I guess they arent all that observant....more a la carte muslims. If you look at most western religions nowadays, its mainly in a la carte fashion.. I work with muslims who drink and Jews who eat pork, catholics who only step foot in a church for weddings and funerals. However, parts of Islam do still seem to be rooted in the middle ages - I was really surprised one day to find out a colleague had just sacrificed a goat after his son was born. I asked him why and he said thats what should be done (and he is a former french catholic convert). We talked a little about it and he revealed he did not do the same for his daughter when she was born....which admittedly, I found a little disturbing - basically this western born, recently enough converted, highly educated individual told me his son was more important than his daughter......but I am well aware that may be the exception (in western countries at least) - but all the same, the lack of willingness to break with horrible outdated traditions such as this made me very uncomfortable.

When will the Muslim world relax?

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