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Should Irish be an optional subject not a cumpulsory one

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    #332
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,095 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    lividduck wrote: »
    If the truth hurts take two panadol.

    As long as you accept it is the truth.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #333
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    As long as you accept it is the truth.
    Well it is the truth, more people do speak those languages in their day to day lives as speak Irish.


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    #334
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    lividduck wrote: »
    Its dead RIP.
    More people in Ireland speak English, Polish,Chinese,Latvian than Irish (if irish is a real language since it appears to use a lot of makkey uppy in it)
    So what, immigrant languages die out after a generation or two.
    I suppose the irony that Irish incorporating new words (as all languages do) meaning it is actually alive, is lost on you.


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    #335
    conor.hogan.2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,246 ✭✭✭conor.hogan.2


    I think Irish has to be ranked high up on the list of languages most often declared dead because most other countries actually know what the word dead means and therefore do not misuse it.


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    #336
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,095 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    lividduck wrote: »
    Well it is the truth, more people do speak those languages in their day to day lives as speak Irish.

    Even if your statement is correct (and I question the Latvian) it doesn't mean that Irish is dead, or that any of those languages is in some way more important, or that irish should be scarapped.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #337
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    Cú Giobach wrote: »
    So what, immigrant languages die out after a generation or two.
    I suppose the irony that Irish incorporating new words (as all languages do) meaning it is actually alive, is lost on you.
    FFS hardly anyone speaks the language on a daily basis, it is effectivley dead, a relic.
    forigen investors do not rush to invest here because we a few thousand people speak a quaint makey uppy lingo, they come here because we are the only English speaking country in the eurozone (Amongst other thinks) and because we have sufficent speakers of living languages, hence Paypal's recent 1,000 job announcement, the only contribution Irish makes to this country is to confuse tourists and drain badly needed funds from other sectors in the economy.


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    #338
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    twinQuins wrote: »
    Drop the obtusiveness; a tiny minority of the population actually speaks the language fluently, never mind using it to communicate day-to-day.
    Irish is a full, living community language in this country that is a fact. So what if the communities are small? You can't dismiss 10's of thousands of people like they don't exist.
    For the vasty majority of people in this country, English is their native language. You know that, don't act like it isn't the reality of the situation.
    Care to show where I even hinted, let alone acted like, it isn't.
    Oh, the irony!
    What is ironic?


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    #339
    The King of Moo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭The King of Moo


    lividduck wrote: »
    FFS hardly anyone speaks the language on a daily basis, it is effectivley dead, a relic.
    forigen investors do not rush to invest here because we a few thousand people speak a quaint makey uppy lingo, they come here because we are the only English speaking country in the eurozone (Amongst other thinks) and because we have sufficent speakers of living languages, hence Paypal's recent 1,000 job announcement, the only contribution Irish makes to this country is to confuse tourists and drain badly needed funds from other sectors in the economy.

    What do you mean by "makey uppy lingo?"

    Every language is made up; they don't just exist fully-formed before people start speaking them.

    If you mean that Irish has neologisms to refer to modern concepts and things, well every language, including English, is the exact same.


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    #340
    Doylers
    Registered Users Posts: 1,704 ✭✭✭Doylers


    100% yes. Why not give the option for another maths class or another subject, something that's useful to your life and college. Wish I had the option when I did the LC in 09 so I wouldn't have been struggling so much in my degree because the maths was so difficult. We keep hearing how their not enough tech people in the county why not try focus on the i.t and science subjects more in secondary.


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    #341
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    Cú Giobach wrote: »
    Irish is a full, living community language in this country that is a fact. So what if the communities are small? You can't dismiss 10's of thousands of people like they don't exist.

    Care to show where I even hinted, let alone acted like, it isn't.

    What is ironic?
    10's of thousands of people do NOT speak Irish as their first language.
    Practically no=one (like less than 2% of the population speak Irish as their first and primary language. Irish is like trainspotting, a nice hobby for anoraks.


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    #342
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    lividduck wrote: »
    FFS hardly anyone speaks the language on a daily basis, it is effectivley dead, a relic.
    Actually Irish will survive into the 22nd century unless the children of today don't pass it on, which is highly unlikely. A language with 10's of thousands of native speakers who are passing on that language, can in no way be considered dead.
    forigen investors do not rush to invest here because we a few thousand people speak a quaint makey uppy lingo
    they come here because we are the only English speaking country in the eurozone (Amongst other thinks) and because we have sufficent speakers of living languages, hence Paypal's recent 1,000 job announcement, the only contribution Irish makes to this country is to confuse tourists and drain badly needed funds from other sectors in the economy.
    You sure like using "makey uppy words yourself, and from the state of your English and also your thinking Irish is not somehow a real language, I can't see why compulsory Irish should bother you, since you couldn't be going, nor have gone, to school.


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    #343
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    lividduck wrote: »
    10's of thousands of people do NOT speak Irish as their first language.
    Practically no=one (like less than 2% of the population speak Irish as their first and primary language. Irish is like trainspotting, a nice hobby for anoraks.
    Why don't you get a calculator and see what 2% of 4,000,000 is.


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    #344
    TheZohanS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,582 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    The Irish language should remain as it is. It's a pity some people don't 'get' culture but shur what can you do, what can you do.


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    #345
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    Cú Giobach wrote: »
    Why don't you get a calculator and see what 2% of 4,000,000 is.
    Simple question, if irish is that popular why would it need to compulsorily rammed down the throats of an unwilling population. simple answer , it aint popular, it isn't even liked, but the Irish language facists are determined to compel those who do want it, like it, or recognise that it has any relavence to who they are to waste valuable study time learning a smattering of it.
    Pardon my typing I meant .2% (whatever that is in irish probably pointá tow phersentinna)


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    #346
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    Cú Giobach wrote: »
    Actually Irish will survive into the 22nd century unless the children of today don't pass it on, which is highly unlikely. A language with 10's of thousands of native speakers who are passing on that language, can in no way be considered dead.

    You sure like using "makey uppy words yourself, and from the state of your English and also your thinking Irish is not somehow a real language, I can't see why compulsory Irish should bother you, since you couldn't be going, nor have gone, to school.

    I have my leaving certificate (without Irish) an an Honours B.A. in Sociology and Social Policy from The University of Dublin, Trinity College. I also have a Diploma in Politics and Government, the fact that you need to be personally insulting to me does your arguements, facile though they were no justice.


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    #347
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    lividduck wrote: »
    Simple question, if irish is that popular why would it need to compulsorily rammed down the throats of an unwilling population. simple answer , it aint popular, it isn't even liked, but the Irish language facists are determined to compel those who do want it, like it, or recognise that it has any relavence to who they are to waste valuable study time learning a smattering of it.
    Pardon my typing I meant .2% (whatever that is in irish probably pointá tow phersentinna)
    You were right first time, it's between 1-2% of the population.


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    #348
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    lividduck wrote: »
    [/B]
    I have my leaving certificate (without Irish) an an Honours B.A. in Sociology and Social Policy from The University of Dublin, Trinity College. I also have a Diploma in Politics and Government, the fact that you need to be personally insulting to me does your arguements, facile though they were no justice.
    You went to university yet don't know that Irish is as full a language as any other living language? That seems very odd.


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    #349
    gigino
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    Cú Giobach wrote: »
    You were right first time, it's between 1-2% of the population.
    Far less than 1-2% of the newspapers, books + magazines sold are in ugly old Irish.


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    #350
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    Cú Giobach wrote: »
    You went to university yet don't know that Irish is as full a language as any other living language? That seems very odd.
    Many things must seem odd to one who deludedly thinks that because 1% of the population share his views, they should be taught compulsorily in schools!
    since a higher proportion of the population use drugs should how to make a joint be compulsory as well?


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    #351
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    lividduck wrote: »
    Many things must seem odd to one who deludedly thinks that because 1% of the population share his views, they should be taught compulsorily in schools!
    What on earth are you on about here. You seem a very confused person. :confused:
    1-2% of the population are native Irish speakers.
    According to polls and surveys it seems over 50% of the population wish to see Irish remain compulsory in school.
    I personally would like to see it remain at least to junior cert, and since millions think the same I could hardly be called deluded now could I.
    If Irish is removed by popular demand then so be it. It still wont die out anytime soon.
    since a higher proportion of the population use drugs should how to make a joint be compulsory as well?
    It most definitely should be, there are some truly awful spliff makers out there, wasting all that goodness.


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    #352
    mloc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭mloc


    I don't think it's an ugly language, I quite like it. My dad (and his whole family) are native speakers. Most of his brothers and sisters families (all, actually, now that I think of it) raised their children as native speakers.

    I have no problem with any of that, I think it's fine. What I don't agree with is compelling the entire country to learn it until the Leaving Certificate. It's totally illogical. If it's optional, at least on a state level, you can still make it compulsory in Gaeltacht areas and continue having Irish speaking schools in other areas, for parents who want their kids to speak Irish.

    For the vast majority of people, however, they should be free to choose not to have their children spend many hours a week studying a language they have no interest or use for.


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    #353
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    mod:

    Any more personal attacks or snipes, grammar nazi crap etc. will result in bans so if you can't post without avoiding these then don't bother at all please and thanks.


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    #354
    TeddyTedson
    Registered Users Posts: 10,758 ✭✭✭✭TeddyTedson


    I thought they were working towards making the majority of primary schools gaelscoils, or going along those lines anyway.
    It seems like it would be easy to revive the language. Have the first four year of primary thought through Irish.

    I remember reading on boards in another thread last year that apparently there's a lot more going on in schools towards Irish nowadays though anyway. They play Bingo in Irish for fun and the likes.

    Sounds a awful lot more fun than what I remember. I was absolutely atrocious at the language, unfortunately, because now I'd like to be able to speak it fluently.


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    #355
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    Cú Giobach wrote: »
    What on earth are you on about here. You seem a very confused person. :confused:
    1-2% of the population are native Irish speakers.
    According to polls and surveys it seems over 50% of the population wish to see Irish remain compulsory in school.
    I personally would like to see it remain at least to junior cert, and since millions think the same I could hardly be called deluded now could I.
    If Irish is removed by popular demand then so be it. It still wont die out anytime soon.


    It most definitely should be, there are some truly awful spliff makers out there, wasting all that goodness.
    Touche! you have a sense of humour and I admire that, what can I say (tempted to ad an irish expression lol).


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    #356
    Seanchai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭Seanchai


    lividduck wrote: »
    Simple question, if irish is that popular why would it need to compulsorily rammed down the throats of an unwilling population. simple answer , it aint popular, it isn't even liked

    Well thanks be to Jaysas that the Queen's English or Mathematics isn't "rammed down the throats of an unwilling population".

    Oh, wait. :rolleyes:


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    #357
    mloc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭mloc


    Seanchai wrote: »
    Well thanks be to Jaysas that the Queen's English or Mathematics isn't "rammed down the throats of an unwilling population".

    Oh, wait. :rolleyes:

    This comparison is always very amusing.

    Two subjects with endless practical usefulness, vital to the majority of employment, compared to a minority language with no practical usefulness for the majority of people.

    You'll have to come up with better than that.


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    #358
    Seanchai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭Seanchai


    lividduck wrote: »
    [/B]
    I have my leaving certificate (without Irish) an an Honours B.A. in Sociology and Social Policy from The University of Dublin, Trinity College. I also have a Diploma in Politics and Government, the fact that you need to be personally insulting to me does your arguements, facile though they were no justice.

    Arguments.

    Before lecturing Irish speakers on how awful Irish is, it's always advisable to know English as well as them. Education is the key. :rolleyes:


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    #359
    Seanchai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭Seanchai


    mloc wrote: »
    This comparison is always very amusing.

    Two subjects with endless practical usefulness, vital to the majority of employment, compared to a minority language with no practical usefulness for the majority of people.

    You'll have to come up with better than that.

    Yes, I'm just itching to use Sonnet 112 or Pythagoras's Theorem. I just can't wait. :rolleyes: Just what sort of people do you hang around with?

    PS: I'm far more educated than you in English, Maths or anything else you've learnt in school, so don't even bother trying.


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    #360
    Wattle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭Wattle


    Seanchai wrote: »
    Well thanks be to Jaysas that the Queen's English or Mathematics isn't "rammed down the throats of an unwilling population".

    Oh, wait. :rolleyes:

    At least Mathematics and the Queens English have some practical applications in real life whereas Irish has virtually none.

    Oh and BTW it's Jaysus not Jaysas. Learn to spell. Education is the key :rolleyes:


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    #361
    mloc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭mloc


    Seanchai wrote: »
    Yes, I'm just itching to use Sonnet 112 or Pythagoras's Theorem. I just can't wait. :rolleyes: Just what sort of people do you hang around with?

    PS: I'm far more educated than you in English, Maths or anything else you've learnt in school, so don't even bother trying.

    I'm not interested in how educated you are in them, or anything else. It's totally irrelevant, as is any personal fact about yourself, or indeed myself, in this discussion.

    The items you've described are tools and examples used to provide people with an understanding of the subject. They are a way of communicating theory, which is the important part.


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