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travellers in flash cars??

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    #242
    Litcagral
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭Litcagral


    Commander Vimes wrote:
    there of course are no websites giving figures of how many crimes are commited by travellers or how many incidences of anti-social behaviour are commited by them, that just wouldn't be allowed. their crimes are generally not recorded officially and there is no chance that they would be singled out on a website that anyone could link to to prove they're scum.

    Are there websites giving figures of how many crimes are committed by children of single parents, Methodists, black persons, gay persons, persons who live in detached houses etc.?


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    #243
    deisedevil
    Registered Users Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭deisedevil


    Freelancer wrote:
    Well done. Nice little circle of hate you're building here.
    I don't have to build a circle of hate, it's already there and the travellers have only themselves to blame for it, and why, well because of acts exactly like those i have written above. I was told by Hobbes that i could only speak about my own area seeing as i have only witnessed the odd event in other counties so i'm looking to see if others can confirm this problem is widespread.


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    #244
    Hobbes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    Commander Vimes wrote:
    there of course are no websites giving figures of how many crimes are commited by travellers

    Actually if you bothered to get off your ass you might find something on the Gardai website/CSO website. Of course your making the asseration so its up to you to do the work.
    The parents were in bits on the Late Late Show, or Kenny live... appealing to absolutely anyone for help since the Guards done nothing....
    It sickens me.

    I had forgotten about comment further back. I believe asked for more details yet magically none were given. Strange that something that was on Late Late and Kenny they can't give me something to go read up on.


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    #245
    deisedevil
    Registered Users Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭deisedevil


    Hobbes wrote:
    Actually if you bothered to get off your ass you might find something on the Gardai website/CSO website. Of course your making the asseration so its up to you to do the work.



    I had forgotten about comment further back. I believe asked for more details yet magically none were given. Strange that something that was on Late Late and Kenny they can't give me something to go read up on.

    Well i bothered to get off my ass a long time again and on the garda crime statistics site there is nowhere that you can see how much crime one specific group has committed like the travelling community. Checked again just now and that's still the case.

    Also you were given something to read further back up on the issue that was on the late late. I read it anyways, maybe you didn't see it?


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    #246
    Hobbes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    Freelancer wrote:
    It also sickens Damien Peelo of the tallaght traveller community according to the article.

    Thanks for the name reference made for further intresting reading.

    http://travellers.ennis.ie/news/national.html

    Ooh look it even mentions a Traveller as a member of the county council.


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    #247
    Hobbes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    deisedevil wrote:
    Well i bothered to get off my ass a long time again and on the garda crime statistics site there is nowhere that you can see how much crime one specific group has committed like the travelling community. Checked again just now and that's still the case.

    Your just not trying hard enough. Let me see what I can dig out.
    I read it anyways, maybe you didn't see it?

    No I didn't I'll have a wander back.
    Are there websites giving figures of how many crimes are committed by children of single parents, Methodists, black persons, gay persons, persons who live in detached houses etc.?

    www.cso.ie


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    #248
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    Hobbes wrote:
    Actually if you bothered to get off your ass you might find something on the Gardai website/CSO website. Of course your making the asseration so its up to you to do the work.

    first of all thanks for the ignorant post. and actually, while looking at websites, i like to sit in a chair, so i'll stay on my ass thank you very much.

    as Litcagral says, there are no websites breaking crimes down into ones committed by single parents or people in detatched houses or gay people so the chances of there being one for crimes committed by travellers are almost nil, i.e. not good enough to trawl the internet for hours to prove a random name on a website wrong


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    #249
    deisedevil
    Registered Users Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭deisedevil


    Hobbes wrote:
    Your just not trying hard enough. Let me see what I can dig out.


    http://www.garda.ie/angarda/statistics/report2004/stats2004.pdf

    There's the crime statistic report for 2004. Unfortuneatly they don't show how many committed crimes in specific groups like ethnic groups.


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    #250
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Tha Gopher wrote:
    Monument, be quiet. Its a known fact that many travellers marry close or distant relations, a practice almost unheard of in the settled community for many, many generations. Grow up.

    Ok, that’s nice and all. So when do a group of people who procreate in isolate circles become a race? Decades, centuries?

    OMcGovern wrote:
    If a snake bites you, does that mean that it's in a minority, and I should trust all the other snakes. What about Millwall supporters..... should I be able to wander into the Millway supporters local pub in England, safe in the knowledge that "there may just be a minority of them who'll beat me into an intensive care unit" ?

    Since we can't tell the good from the bad ones, we're not willing to take the chance. Once bitten, twice shy. I've been "bitten" twice.
    They're too violent to ignore as a potential threat.

    That could be applied to people from Eastern Europe, people with dark coloured skin, it could even be applied to people from rich areas of Ireland, you could argue rich people are all dangerous bastards because they can pay lawyers to clear them of any wrongdoings they’ve done.

    What about amoral people? What does a amoral psychopath* look like?


    * = Not just any crazy person, I’m talking about – “SPECIALIZED in psychology, a person who has no feeling for other people, does not think about the future and does not feel bad about anything they have done in the past http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=63884&dict=CALD”


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    #251
    Giblet
    Registered Users Posts: 11,977 ✭✭✭✭Giblet


    Hi. Anyone who makes any stupid jokes again will be banned.


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    #252
    Tha Gopher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Tha Gopher


    Hobbes, do you watch Law and Order?

    There is an episode where a teacher, who is suspected of murdering a young female student, is busted with his pants down in a hotel room with a half naked 15 year old student. His lawyer is attempting to get the charge dropped before it has even been made

    Cop "We caught your client in a hotel room with a half naked 15 year old student"
    Lawyer "And until you can prove that what they were doing was no more than legitimate school related activity you have no case":rolleyes:
    Cop (stares in utter disbelief at this nonsense) :D:D

    The scene rather reminds me of your claims that it is possible the Finglas rock throwers were not Travellers. Its alot like the winner of the X Factor in the UK. His dad is called Ward. His mother is a Joyce. His dad is in jail for rape. His mother was arrested in a bar brawl a few weeks back. His uncles (one called Ward, the other Joyce) were convicted of murdering a scrapyard manager in a robbery.
    Now the article never specifically mentioned the word traveller, I think it was worded that this Shayne chap was from "a large Irish extended family". I like the way that despite the fact his parents are Ward and Joyce, and despite the fact his uncles have served time for murder during a scrapyard robbery (of all places), that if I said that the guy is of Traveller descent you would say "prove it, nowhere in that article isthe word traveller mentioned" :D

    Lads, your arguement is finished and becoming more desperate. I say one thing, you demand a link, I provide it and prove my point. Billy claims that travellers are barely involved in organised crime: I disprove this by stating (from info Ive read in books and newspaper reports from way back) that travellers are disproportionately involved in organised crime, including heroin smuggling, control of the ecstasy trade in the North East/West, and I think I now recall it was the McCarthys, part of the McCarthy Dundon crime family in Limerick, that were traveller descended. Only late in 2004/early 2005 a huge haul of ecstasy was found at a halt here in Blanch. Whilst the Dublin gangs often regard e as having too small a profit turnover (why sell pills for a fiver a pop that keep people high for a few hours when they can move 70 euro bags that people need to top up again on within minutes), the traveller clans are still involved, primarily because they already have contacts in the Benelux thanks to cigarette smuggling who can sort them for pills.

    I mean, good god Hobbes, if even an apologist like Martin Collins can admit that some Traveller families are wasters for taking their kids out of school to get more benefits from these FAS courses, it really does say it all.The fact is that hard working Irish people like me are sick to our back teeth of these largely unemployed people with very large families creaming off our tax money. I typically work 7 days most weeks, on average I get about 2 days off per month. I do not want my money going to fund cultural projects or arts funds or whatever the hell schemes they have for travellers these days. The travellers are basically like the homeless- a few are decent, they cant help their situation, but the majority are aggressive, unemployed and deserve what they get.

    A final question Hobbes- do you really think its possible that, lets say, 20% of travellers are utter scum and the rest are alright, and that the four I encountered this year represented that group and therefore I just suffered bad luck? That if I had run into a further 16 travellers this year I would have regarded them as a grand bunch?
    Please, do answer that.

    Litcagral- regarding your question, yes, there are sites showing figures commited by black, Methodists, gays and children of single parents. In the UK and US ethnic data collection re crime is conducted by the justice department/home office. Ireland doesnt show race specifically afaik, figures are available however showing the country of birth of inmates in Irish prisons. Id imagine in N.I crime stats by religion are available, so if you want to find out what those bad muthafcukin Methdists have been up to gwan ahead. Gays and kids from single parent families, they wouldnt be government stats, but Im sure there studies done using sample groups of suspects to ascertain this info.


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    #253
    Hobbes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    Litcagral says, there are no websites breaking crimes down into ones committed...by travellers are almost nil, i.e. not good enough to trawl the internet for hours to prove a random name on a website wrong

    Ahh ok so not worth the time to prove your point you mean. Isn't ignorance great.

    Traveller population makes up 0.6% of Irelands population (reference CSO) and is increasing while at the same time crime in Ireland is decreasing (we won't assume a corrolation).

    This site here lists stats for headline crimes.
    http://www.movetoireland.com/movepag/misccrim.htm

    Take a note of the places with the lowest crime stats.

    Roscommon/Galway East - 8.27
    Roscommon has a transient halting site. (Carrowbone)
    Incidently this site sits between a legal dumping site and a main road. Settled People have been routinely caught dumping crap at the travellers area to stop paying for dumping at the main site. (ref: Irishhealth.com)


    Donegal - 8.4
    7 Sites, 2 of which are transient (ref: donegal.ie)

    Until April this year there was a halting site in Ballintra.
    There is current contention here as Donegal have laws that forbid travellers to halt there and don't offer enough sites to stop at.

    Oddly enough despite many protests over this all this year the crime rate is very low.

    Clare - 8.4
    8 Halting sites of 2000 and two more being created this year (ref: travellers.ennis.ie)

    Mayo - 8.77
    42% of all travellers have been housed here. (ref: tcm.ie). (so would be around 11,300 travellers there).

    Cork West - 8.93
    Only found these (ref: corkcity.ie)
    Carrigrohane Road – 12 bay
    • Hollyhill/Knocknaheeny – 12 bay
    • Mahon – 12 bay
    • Spring Lane, Ballyvolane – 10 bay

    Doesn't mention if they are cork west. 70% of travellers surveyed complained about the lack of resources in the places they had been put.

    Cavan-Monaghan - 8.95
    Caven have 18 halting sites. (18 familys) (ref: cavancoco.ie)

    Monaghan has 54 families living there. 42 are housed, the remaining are at halting sites at Largy, Clones and Gortakeegan, Monaghan. The site in Clones is full and there are two vacant bays on the Monaghan site.

    ...

    So it is a bit odd that the "majority are criminals" yet the majority live in the lowest crime areas in Ireland.

    Are we to magically believe that Setted people do not in anyway commit crimes?

    Now if it was only travellers in that areas causing the crimes you can bet as hell that it would be documented, especially considering the media is very anti-traveller as well (ref: Civil Rights Ireland).

    Ok your turn.. lets see what you can dig up.


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    #254
    Hobbes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    Tha Gopher wrote:
    Hobbes, do you watch Law and Order?

    Oh see as an example you pick a fictional program. :rolleyes:
    The scene rather reminds me of your claims that it is possible the Finglas rock throwers were not Travellers.

    No. I am saying the news report you posted nowhere says that the rock throwers were travellers, nor does it say that they were doing it inside a halting site.

    You made that accusation, not me, not the news story.

    Now you may actually be correct but your going to have to try a bit harder looking up your facts instead of jumping to conclusions.
    Lads, your arguement is finished and becoming more desperate.

    You have yet to put forward anything valid except whining and name calling.
    I mean, good god Hobbes, if even an apologist like Martin Collins can admit that some Traveller families are wasters

    Notice you said "Some", not "The majority". Last time I checked they don't mean the same thing. I mean there are criminal scum in Dublin, does that mean all Dubliners are scum? That is the fallacy you are making.

    A final question Hobbes

    Previous post I cross reference traveller sites/population with crime areas. The majority of travellers live in low crime rate areas.


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    #255
    Freelancer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 769 ✭✭✭Freelancer


    OMcGovern wrote:
    1. You're right... they're worse than animals, they attack with little or no
    provocation.

    Rancid racism and bigotry.

    Tell me is Francis Barrett an animal? Or were you pleased when he won for us at the oylmpics. Representing a country where his countrymen view him as less than an animal, I guess thats how black olympians felt in Munich during the 1934 olympics.
    2. You shouldn't trust them openly, without keeping your guard up.
    It's risk vs reward.
    It's not worth trusting them.... there's nothing to be gained.

    Really nothing? Gosh then I must have imagined the feeling of gratification I got doing that creative writing course with a traveller community.
    You're welcome to your bleeding heart routine, which the religion has drilled into you. The whole tolerance and forgiveness lark only works when the other party shows some form of remorse or improvement in their behaviour.

    And seeing as you see them all as animals and not worth trustings I can totally see this situation improving.


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    #256
    Freelancer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 769 ✭✭✭Freelancer


    deisedevil wrote:
    I don't have to build a circle of hate, it's already there and the travellers have only themselves to blame for it, and why, well because of acts exactly like those i have written above. I was told by Hobbes that i could only speak about my own area seeing as i have only witnessed the odd event in other counties so i'm looking to see if others can confirm this problem is widespread.

    While ignoring or denying that the situation could be different elsewhere, try approaching it with an open mind listening to the postive as well as the negativ......


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    #257
    Freelancer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 769 ✭✭✭Freelancer


    gopher wrote:
    Lads, your arguement is finished and becoming more desperate. I say one thing, you demand a link, I provide it and prove my point. Billy claims that travellers are barely involved in organised crime: I disprove this by stating (from info Ive read in books and newspaper reports from way back)

    No you claim it you've not disproved it. Link to the articles, name the books, offer some evidence not just claim," I'm right cause er yeah I read it in a book or something".
    that travellers are disproportionately involved in organised crime, including heroin smuggling, control of the ecstasy trade in the North East/West, and I think I now recall it was the McCarthys, part of the McCarthy Dundon crime family in Limerick, that were traveller descended.

    Okay so again. You say traveller descended. Not actually traveller anymore. Therefore their actions cannot be a black mark aganist the current traveller community.

    What exactly are you suggesting, that travellers are genetically more likely to commit crime?
    Only late in 2004/early 2005 a huge haul of ecstasy was found at a halt here in Blanch. Whilst the Dublin gangs often regard e as having too small a profit turnover (why sell pills for a fiver a pop that keep people high for a few hours when they can move 70 euro bags that people need to top up again on within minutes), the traveller clans are still involved, primarily because they already have contacts in the Benelux thanks to cigarette smuggling who can sort them for pills.

    Facts? Links? Evidence? The name and authors of these "books" you're reading?


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    #258
    deisedevil
    Registered Users Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭deisedevil


    Freelancer wrote:
    While ignoring or denying that the situation could be different elsewhere, try approaching it with an open mind listening to the postive as well as the negativ......

    F-all positives there tbh. Try looking at it this way, how do travellers contribute to our society, there's very few of them paying tax etc. And on your creative writing course with the traveller was that volunteer work, i hope so because i'd hate to see my hard earned, legally earned tax money being spent on teaching a traveller creative writing so he can go out and go creatively forging cheques.:D


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    #259
    Tha Gopher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Tha Gopher


    LOL Deisedevil :D Keep that type of humour down though, the thread will be locked, depriving me of any further opportunity to show Hobbes as the PC idiot he is.


    For a start Hobbes, Cavan doesnt have 18 halting sites, it has one. Get your facts straight (Id know Cavan well, it has one halt wth maybe 18 houses last time I looked, it is undoubtedly one of the dirtiest halts Ive seen in this country). Ask the security guards in the Tesco down the hill from it what these lovely folks are like. They spend much of their day hanging around the car park causing nuisance, abusing people who refuse to pay them for washing their cars or not buying whatever tat theyre selling. Ask anyone from Cavan do they know of the McDonaghs there (drop the name Red Terry and see what reaction you get, I know of one guy who caught him taking a sh1te in his garden once, and he isnt the type of person to make things up. I think Terry moves between Navan and Cavan so Im sure the Meath heads here know of him too ). Alot of Cavan and Blanch travellers are linked via family.

    Hobbes, do you actually read full posts? It seems you decided to skip most of mine after the line "do you watch law and order". If you had paid attention, I was merely pointing out you reminded me of a lawyer on the show who came up with an absoloutely ludicrous arguement as to why his client was in a hotel room with a 15 year old girl. You have come up with similiar nonsense to doubt whether the Finglas rock throwers actually were travellers.

    Freelancer, so what, the guys family are retired travellers? I thought the big thing for travellers now was to be provided with proper built housing but at the same time preserve their cultural identidy. So what, once a traveller buys/rents a house, hes no longer in the community? And do you also deny that his family are scum?
    btw, do travellers actually pay rent for halting site houses?



    As for demanding sources, I already told you, the story of the heroin smuggling travellers is in one of the Paul Williams or Paul Reynolds books. The grip on the North Easts drug trade was shown when 8 travellers were arrested in Longford a while back. Get your own link. The McCarthy-Dundon traveller link is, iirc, in the book dealing with the Limerick feud by a journo from there, i think its called Blood Feud?

    I notice our Limeick friend here hasnt made any comment re the McCarthys, most probably because, being from Limerick, he knows I am correct.

    And Hobbes, re your some vs majority nonsense, I think the fact MOST Travellers are out of school around Jr Cert year at the very latest answers your own question:D

    Also, the figures mean that 40% of Travellers WITHIN Mayo are housed, not that 40% of their national population are houses there. 11,000 in Mayo? rofl :D Your inabillity to even decipher statistics correctly really sums up your entire contribution to this thread.

    Also, you quote low crime areas where Travellers live. Fingal, Limerick, Clondalkin/Tallaght, Ballymun, Ballyfermot all high crime areas with lots of halts. Now, most of this crime is by the settled people, but the point is its as if you tried to make out they all live in the best areas crime wise./ For gods sake, you are from Coolock, dont you read the local news? There is a traveller feud going on in your area, and Id like to see how much respect you have for them if you or one of your family is hit by a bullet during the next shoot out.

    And you quote West Cork. A Traveller was murdered there last week. Now, Ill admit I dont know the social status of the killer, but can you admit a majority of gypsy murders is Traveller on Traveller?

    http://newsfeed.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/story.asp?j=134698058088&p=y34698x5835z&n=134698058380

    "A row, it has emerged, broke out within the group. "

    It would be good to actually watch the news and see whats happening before claiming the travellers of West Cork pose little trouble.



    So Hobbes, to sum up, you try to prove your point with

    a- Diversion of blame tactics that even the most Lionel Hutz-like American lawyer would be embarrased to use

    b- Most probably false stories about "my mate works with them, grand bunch". You only added in your models bit because you thought nobody would bother asking for a name

    c- Statistics that you have either made up or you have been unable to even read correctly (Cavan halt would have roughly 18 homes, Cavan does not have 18 halting sites, unless a single house can count as a site, which I doubt it can). And to think you believed Mayo, which has a population of roundabouts 100,000, had 11,000 travellers? There is a breakdown on Pavee Point iirc of traveller numbers, something like 20-25% are in Dublin.

    Fcuk it, here ya go

    http://www.paveepoint.ie/fs_distribution_a.html

    re these, can someone point out the difference between group housing and a halt? Is group housing a small estate for travellers (Id always just called them halts, as traveller housing is usually distinctive by its design), whereas the halt is a section of the park where people have permission to live permanently in caravans? Is any rent paid for this land by them?

    Are you sure you can read those stats without teacher Hobbes? Stats really dont seem to be your thing, which is a rather obvious drawback for someone who fancies himself as an expert on politics/society.


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    #260
    WhiteWashMan
    Registered Users Posts: 20,099 ✭✭✭✭WhiteWashMan


    ok, im fed up of this thread now.

    you lot can p1ss and moan all day and swap opinions and score petty points off each other, but im fed up of the amount of reported posts this is getting.
    so its over to humanities where amp can rule you all with a rod of iron (ooo-er)


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    #261
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Tha Gopher wrote:
    I mean, good god Hobbes, if even an apologist like Martin Collins can admit that some Traveller families are wasters
    Tha Gopher wrote:
    lets say, 20% of travellers are utter scum

    'Some' or '20%' - so is it or is it not the majorty?

    Tha Gopher wrote:
    people like me are sick to our back teeth of these largely unemployed people with very large families creaming off our tax money.

    And you don't think there's about the same percentage of settled people doing the same? Which would add up to more actual people?


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    #262
    OMcGovern
    Closed Accounts Posts: 503 ✭✭✭OMcGovern


    OMcGovern wrote:
    The parents were in bits on the Late Late Show, or Kenny live... appealing to absolutely anyone for help since the Guards done nothing....
    It sickens me.
    Hobbes wrote:
    I had forgotten about comment further back. I believe asked for more details yet magically none were given. Strange that something that was on Late Late and Kenny they can't give me something to go read up on.

    I've already supplied you with the weblink to this article on the previous page 12. Here it is again....
    Try finding some one line of text within that article to support your case.
    The knackers were still fighting while the 5 year old girl was pinned against the wall.

    http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2003/06/18/story679888088.asp


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    #263
    OMcGovern
    Closed Accounts Posts: 503 ✭✭✭OMcGovern


    monument wrote:
    'Some' or '20%' - so is it or is it not the majorty?

    And you don't think there's about the same percentage of settled people doing the same? Which would add up to more actual people?

    It's the violence and aggression and lawlessness that is repulsive, not unemployment.


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    #264
    Tha Gopher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Tha Gopher


    OMcGovern- please refrain from using the p, k and t words. Not that I object, but it will result in thread closure, which seeing as these idiots have dug themselves into such a great hole would be the ideal solution for them. Keep it civil- talk your facts, either from the media or from your own life experience (something half the bubble boys in this thread are lacking)

    If the thread is closed, Hobbes wouldnt have to admit he cant read statistics:)

    Jesus OP, just read your link (id skipped much of the early parts of this thread), i remember the parents on the late late. Absoloutely fcuking disgraceful, I actually wish I handt clicked what with the description of the poor kids injuries. That was 03, anyone know how it turned out in the end? Did she definitely become infertile, is she walking again?
    Wish the poor kid the very best, and can only hope advances in medical science can treat the infertillity, for depriving that little girl of the chance to have kids the law should have done the same and locked up the driver for life no parole.


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    #265
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Tha Gopher wrote:
    So Hobbes, to sum up, you try to prove your point with

    Oh! It's my turn to guess now... Gopher is trying to prove his point by not replying to my posts.


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    #266
    Hobbes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    Tha Gopher wrote:
    LOL Deisedevil :D Keep that type of humour down though, the thread will be locked, depriving me of any further opportunity to show Hobbes as the PC idiot he is.

    You might want to refrain from name calling as well or you risk being banned. You have already called me a liar and now you are calling me an idiot. I've let it slide till now.
    For a start Hobbes, Cavan doesnt have 18 halting sites, it has one.

    http://www.cavancoco.ie/cccws/publish/general/documents/Traveller_Accommodation_Programme_2000_2004.pdf

    Actually I hadn't read down the whole report. Your correct there is one with 18 sites on it. I'll give you that.
    It seems you decided to skip most of mine after the line "do you watch law and order".

    I tend to ignore comparisons of fictional shows to real life.

    Especially a tv show that has no bearing with a story. As pointed out I did not deny it may of happened, I am saying no where in that story does it say that Travellers were throwing stones at traffic and as I will say again you were using the story to infer that the guy was part of the rioting.
    btw, do travellers actually pay rent for halting site houses?

    http://www.nccri.ie/pdf/traveller-myths.pdf

    Yes they do. Its an intresting read.

    5 second google will even get you prices.



    I notice our Limeick friend here hasnt made any comment re the McCarthys, most probably because, being from Limerick, he knows I am correct.

    Ok so one family is reflective of a whole ethinic group?

    And Hobbes, re your some vs majority nonsense, I think the fact MOST Travellers are out of school around Jr Cert year at the very latest answers your own question:D

    So being uneducated = Criminal?

    Your inabillity to even decipher statistics correctly really sums up your entire contribution to this thread.

    Fair enough. You go get the statistics then?
    For gods sake, you are from Coolock, dont you read the local news? There is a traveller feud going on in your area, and Id like to see how much respect you have for them if you or one of your family is hit by a bullet during the next shoot out.

    Strange, have seen nothing of it and there are 120 families living just down the road. You would think with all them being so terrible that it would be a bit more noticable.
    but can you admit a majority of gypsy murders is Traveller on Traveller?

    Sure, when you show where you got that statistic from.
    happening before claiming the travellers of West Cork pose little trouble.

    Actually I just listed what halting sites were in Cork. I'll leave it up to a Cork local to point out which ones are in the west part.


    b- Most probably false stories about "my mate works with them, grand bunch". You only added in your models bit because you thought nobody would bother asking for a name

    *shrug* again you are calling me a liar yet we are supposed to believe everyone elses story.
    http://www.paveepoint.ie/fs_distribution_a.html

    There see, that didn't hurt did it. Thats more of what I am looking for. Just as a matter of interest have you tried cross referencing that with crime rates from the earlier PDF supplied?
    Are you sure you can read those stats without teacher Hobbes?

    Again with the personal attacks. I admit I misread those as I just grabbed them quickly because some where not bothering to look up thier own assertions.

    Btw 20% does not mean majority.
    Omcgovern wrote:
    I've already supplied you with the weblink to this article on the previous page 12. Here it is again....

    Cheers. Actually missed it earlier. I've had a look around and can't find anything beyond 2003. Has there been any update on that story? I also noticed in the story that the traveller representatives agreed with the parents that the case should be reopened and more transparacy in how the Minister of Justice comes to his rulings. Kind of a strange comment for a "criminal".

    It also appears to be an issue with the DPP rather then a traveller issue.

    [edit].. Finally found more info on it.
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0924/6news/6news56_10.smil

    Details why the case didn't go forward. Appears they did not have enough evidence to pursue it but it is still open if evidence is forthcoming and a statement that it had absolutly nothing to do with the people being travellers.


  • Options
    #267
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    /takes hobbes gently by the arm and leads him off to a quiet room for a nice cup of tea and a sit down


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    #268
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Hobbes wrote:
    Again you have nothing to back this up. No where in the story does it say that the stoning took place from within the halting site.

    I did read it. It was a peaceful sitdown protest he was arrested at. Yes they were illegally blocking an area however your earlier comments was trying to imply that he was arrested for rioting.

    LOL.. making up stories... riiiight. I am lying but everyone else with a story isn't? I also don't appreciate being called a liar.

    Well Hobbes, I was one of those motorists who was stoned by traveller rioters on October of that year, not just me but a few hundred who were pelted on the Ratoath road, Finglas. (i was lucky to escape with no smashed windows).

    This riot was reported in the major news media at the time.(RTE TV3, with gleaming tv pictures etc)

    If you still believe this was fiction, the Garda Public Order Unit were stuck at Dunsink halting site where the barrier was erected to protect us from rocks and petrol bombs that were thrown at settled members of the community.
    That morning before the riot, I and many other motorists had never felt so threatened in our lives when we were verbally abused at a sit down protest by travellers at the junction of Cappagh ave and Ratoath Rd.
    They later moved their protest to the N3 in Blanch where many more motorists encountered their threatening behaviour.

    You are indeed very lucky to live beside a small halting site in your area whch gives no trouble to you. The legal and illegal ones at Dunsink, the settled traveller estates of St Marys and Avila Park near me were involved in the rioting of that month.
    How do I know this?...Hundreds of local people including myself, hundreds of gardai eyewitnessed it all.
    The rioters originated from those estates, barricaded themselves in with garda lines around them. Hardly settled people rioting in a traveller estate!


  • Options
    #269
    billy the squid
    Registered Users Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭billy the squid


    Commander Vimes wrote:
    /takes hobbes gently by the arm and leads him off to a quiet room for a nice cup of tea and a sit down


    Asside from making comments intended to belittle those that disagree with you, oh and posting offensive jokes, have you anything to contribute?
    It's the violence and aggression and lawlessness that is repulsive, not unemployment.

    I would consider the use of words like "pikey" and "knacker" to describe travellers a form of agression. I am not saying you have used these words. but they have been used in this thread by people who are of the opinion that they are a higher form of life than both travellers and those who disagree with them in relation to travellers.

    I have only seen the word "idiot" coming from one side of this debate also. the one accusing the other of being agressive as it happens.

    tell you what go over here and start a thread with an anecdote about, oh i dont know, pick any race you like. You can be sure that you will hear many many more similar anecdotes about that race. but it is not representative though.


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    #270
    Hobbes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    gurramok wrote:
    Well Hobbes, I was one of those motorists who was stoned by traveller rioters on October of that year, not just me but a few hundred who were pelted on the Ratoath road, Finglas. (i was lucky to escape with no smashed windows).

    This riot was reported in the major news media at the time.(RTE TV3, with gleaming tv pictures etc)

    Fair enough. The actual sort of response I was looking for.
    If you still believe this was fiction,

    I didn't believe it was true or not, just that the story didn't infer travellers were throwing stones and the story was used as a veiled attempt to imply that someone arrested at the peaceful protest was taking part in the rioting.

    120 families is a small site?


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    #271
    zenith
    Registered Users Posts: 785 ✭✭✭zenith


    Right, for good or ill, this thread has been referred to Humanities.

    Humanities was created for the purpose of having rational, thoughtful, calm debate about issues. It was created as an alternative to After Hours. A place for intellectual discourse.

    Bannings are frequent, and permanent. It's a very different place to where it's come from. Follow the rules above, or get the hell out of Dodge.


This discussion has been closed.
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