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Guys attacking cyclists in Dublin!!

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    #152
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    Well, it should work both ways!
    <snip>
    Cyclist runs up to car, kicking it, screaming, threatening and generally making a tit of himself, HIS car insurance should be affected the same way. It only makes sense, I mean we can't have one law for some people and another for others? If people decide to become threatening and abusive, they should be treated the same way.

    If a cyclist does as you describe, dr.fuzzenstein, s/he will of course face prosecution for assault, in the same way a driver would.
    Assault
    At Common Law, an intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact.
    An assault is carried out by a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm.

    (This definition refers to the English 'common law', but it's also true in Irish law.)


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    #153
    Traumadoc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭Traumadoc


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    Well, it should work both ways!
    Driver comes up to cyclist and starts verbally abusing him, under Pussy Law #4, the driver now has to pay compensation and will lose his no claims.
    No imagine the reverse. Cyclist runs up to car, kicking it, screaming, threatening and generally making a tit of himself, HIS car insurance should be affected the same way. It only makes sense, I mean we can't have one law for some people and another for others? If people decide to become threatening and abusive, they should be treated the same way.
    Cyclists will now point out that a car is more dangerous as a weapon than a bike, well, that should be vehicular manslaughter and it should be viewed very dimly indeed.
    But for tosspots throwing their arms around, screaming their heads off and acting the maggot, it should all be the same.
    Of course in the good old days you just lamped the cnut. Had you gone to the police and wined about it instead, they would have laughed at you. Gotta love the 70's, things where easier back then.


    Its not really that the driver has to pay compensation, its the fact that if you abuse the cyclist, you could loose your no claims bonus.

    As a behaviour modification tool it could be very effective.


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    #154
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Traumadoc wrote: »
    The compensation would be for stress and anxiety, the value would probably less than €500. Again its not about compensation, its about the driver loosing their no claims bonus.


    So when ur son is a teenager, out with a group and they do something to frighten a kid or old person, will you cough up the compensation for that person out of ur own pocket?


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    #155
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Traumadoc wrote: »
    Its not really that the driver has to pay compensation, its the fact that if you abuse the cyclist, you could loose your no claims bonus.

    As a behaviour modification tool it could be very effective.

    As a runner I get abused by some cyclists, should they pay me compensation?


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    #156
    Traumadoc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭Traumadoc


    average_runner wrote: »
    So when ur son is a teenager, out with a group and they do something to frighten a kid or old person, will you cough up the compensation for that person out of ur own pocket?

    Why not?


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    #157
    Traumadoc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭Traumadoc


    average_runner wrote: »
    As a runner I get abused by some cyclists, should they pay me compensation?

    How and why do they abuse you?


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    #158
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Traumadoc wrote: »
    Why not?

    Why not? It be impossible to enforce it.


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    #159
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Traumadoc wrote: »
    How and why do they abuse you?

    Some think some cycle lanes are only for bikes when the signs say different, so they shout ignorant things.

    Others give out when I run across the pedestrian green light in front of them, even though it's red for them.

    Again this is not all cyclists.


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    #160
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    average_runner wrote: »
    So when ur son is a teenager, out with a group and they do something to frighten a kid or old person, will you cough up the compensation for that person out of ur own pocket?

    Oooh, nice straw man!


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    #161
    Traumadoc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭Traumadoc


    average_runner wrote: »
    Why not? It be impossible to enforce it.

    Plenty of people have had to pay compensation for their dogs that bite others.


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    #162
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Traumadoc wrote: »
    Plenty of people have had to pay compensation for their dogs that bite others.

    But that's a physical injury


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    #163
    Traumadoc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭Traumadoc


    Oh they get compensation for the psychological effect of a dog bite too.


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    #164
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    Could happen in a car as well. And yes,"being looked at in a certain way" could mean someone coming over and looking at me in a threatening way. If someone just can convince the judge that he/she genuinely believed they might come to harm, it should be easy to persuade the judge to loosen the other side's purse strings.
    Of course there already is an offense of "threatening, abusive or insulting behavior", wouldn't that allow someone to claim compensation?
    It just adds to the list of "I got owie, now gimme, gimme gimme!" legislation in this country.

    You obviously know very little about tort law.

    Yes of course it could happen to someone in a car.

    No you can't claim damages for the offence of threatening aggressive and insulting behaviour.

    And yes people have been successfully claiming damages for mental injury claims since the early Victorian era- it's nothing new.


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    #165
    Geniass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 643 ✭✭✭Geniass


    Jaysus, I started reading this thread for the first time today and kept reading in the hope there would be an update about the maggots in the car getting caught, but it's turned into... not sure exactly.

    I want the last 20 minutes of my life back!


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    #166
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Traumadoc wrote: »
    Its not really that the driver has to pay compensation, its the fact that if you abuse the cyclist, you could loose your no claims bonus.

    As a behaviour modification tool it could be very effective.

    Be that as it may, but it won't happen.
    So now we've been talking about motorists abusing cyclists and vice versa, cyclists vs pedestrians and joggers and thrown some dogs into the mix.
    I'm amazed there aren't mass brawls every day. Maybe we all should have to wear some kind of numberplate round our necks, camera on our shoulder, gardai on every corner, so when we feel threatened the guard takes down the numbers, secures the footage and off to court we go. This would of course apply to perceived mental trauma as well. Its nice to know we live in a society where all common sense has gone out the window.


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    #167
    Traumadoc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭Traumadoc


    No just a way for cyclists to combat abusive behavior from motorists, if the guards say there is nothing they can do.

    You should post on the motors forum "Careful lads ..... abuse a cyclist and you could loose your NCB."

    It may make someone think twice before the roll down a window and shout at someone or someones child.


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    #168
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,073 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Traumadoc wrote: »
    No just a way for cyclists to combat abusive behavior from motorists, if the guards say there is nothing they can do.

    You should post on the motors forum "Careful lads ..... abuse a cyclist and you could loose your NCB."

    It may make someone think twice before the roll down a window and shout at someone or someones child.

    So instead of being abused by just one motorist you leave yourself open to being abused by lots! :(


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    #169
    Traumadoc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭Traumadoc


    looksee wrote: »
    So instead of being abused by just one motorist you leave yourself open to being abused by lots! :(

    Like many cyclists, i am also a motorist too.


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    #170
    iamtony
    Registered Users Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭iamtony


    average_runner wrote: »
    Some think some cycle lanes are only for bikes when the signs say different, so they shout ignorant things.

    Others give out when I run across the pedestrian green light in front of them, even though it's red for them.

    Again this is not all cyclists.
    thats a new one to me, I never noticed you can run in a cycle lane? I've seen people do it but I would never say anything to them or anything but I did think it was a bit dangerous all the same.


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    #171
    irlirishkev
    Registered Users Posts: 2,502 ✭✭✭irlirishkev


    iamtony wrote:
    thats a new one to me, I never noticed you can run in a cycle lane? I've seen people do it but I would never say anything to them or anything but I did think it was a bit dangerous all the same.

    Shared cyle/footpaths. I don't know of many but they do exist.


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    #172
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    irlirishkev wrote: »
    Shared cyle/footpaths. I don't know of many but they do exist.

    It depends on the signage. A German to the rescue, we are being taught about proper cycling etiquette since primary school and you know what? It works. Everyone know what their rights and responsibilities are, so cycling and driving a car in the same space does not lead to arguments, shouting abuse, throwing stuff, etc...

    39264.jpg

    This means footpath and cycle lane with no side specifically reserved for either one, just sort it out amongst yourselves. Not a good idea in Ireland, if you read boards.ie you will think that half the Irish population doesn't know which side of the bed to get out of if it isn't dictated by law and the other half won't give a sh*t and just do whatever they want anyway.

    715562-foot-path-cycle-lane-sign.jpeg

    This means pedestrians to the left and cyclists to the right. Not a good idea in Ireland, because while 50% of users will now know which side to be on, the other 50% that doesn't give a sh*te anyway will still just do whatever the hell they want, so again, won't work, arguments, abuse, things thrown.
    I am amazed that when I go around Ireland that there isn't a mass brawl at every street corner. If a foreigner only knew Ireland from boards.ie, he would think this is the narkiest, most argumentative place on earth and that it probably kicks off ever 5 minutes here.


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    #173
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    Be that as it may, but it won't happen.

    If the current fashion for encouraging drivers to behave badly towards cyclists continues, it will happen; cyclists will record unacceptable behaviour by motorists and make complaints both to the Gardaí and to motorists' insurance companies in the case of unacceptable behaviour. When this fashion changes, the need for any such reaction will disappear.

    Perhaps it's because we live in cities and don't know our neighbours so much, but I've noticed a certain tendency to react to people in a quasi-racist way. For example, I myself was trying to speed-pack my goods in a supermarket the other day and ended up spilling my stuff and cards all over the floor. Rather than kindly helping me, the middle-aged man behind me sneeringly walked around me and took the couple of things he was buying and walked away. I realised that this was an experience of what you might call Ist behaviour; in this case it was age-Ist.

    This kind of behaviour happens when we think a particular group is contemptible because its members behave in a particular manner, and so by definition they don't deserve our respect. They're cyclists; they go through red lights. They're black; they take our jobs. They're old; they're slow to pay and hold the rest of us up.

    Once Istism comes in, humanity is lost.


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    #174
    Neleven
    Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭Neleven


    gadetra wrote: »
    Most of the cycling 'incidents' I experience happen on the n11. Just seems to he a hotspot for it. Hate that road. An unfortunately necessary evil.

    I confront my demon by naming myself after it. 😈


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    #175
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    If the current fashion for encouraging drivers to behave badly towards cyclists continues, it will happen; cyclists will record unacceptable behaviour by motorists and make complaints both to the Gardaí and to motorists' insurance companies in the case of unacceptable behaviour. When this fashion changes, the need for any such reaction will disappear.

    Perhaps it's because we live in cities and don't know our neighbours so much, but I've noticed a certain tendency to react to people in a quasi-racist way. For example, I myself was trying to speed-pack my goods in a supermarket the other day and ended up spilling my stuff and cards all over the floor. Rather than kindly helping me, the middle-aged man behind me sneeringly walked around me and took the couple of things he was buying and walked away. I realised that this was an experience of what you might call Ist behaviour; in this case it was age-Ist.

    This kind of behaviour happens when we think a particular group is contemptible because its members behave in a particular manner, and so by definition they don't deserve our respect. They're cyclists; they go through red lights. They're black; they take our jobs. They're old; they're slow to pay and hold the rest of us up.

    Once Istism comes in, humanity is lost.

    Racism against cyclists? Now I've heard it all. Unless maybe it's George Hook we're talking about.
    But yes, the plight of the cyclist can be compared to that of the Kurds, the Palestinians, the refugees drowning off the coast of Africa as well as that of black people, women and gays and lesbians everywhere.
    I applaud your brave struggle against suppression, I hope the plight of your people will end. We need to get Kofi Anan, the UN, Bono and Bob Geldof in on this. Maybe some kind of 24 hour global music event in aid of suppressed cyclists everywhere. I definitely have my violin out for this one.

    Also, the bit in bold? If someone gives you guff, go for it. Also, how about cyclists who break red lights, cycle on the footpath, etc should also be made to stump up fiddy bucks. It does work both ways, you know.

    edit:
    It's rather a fashion that everyone has to obey by the rules. A cyclist is a vulnerable road user and drivers will have to look out for them.
    In all other countries cyclists understand that concept. However in Ireland, some cyclists seem to have picked up the message wrong. It does not mean that a cyclist (or anyone for that matter) can do whatever the hell they like and they will be safe under all circumstances, no matter what they do, like swerving across the road, doing a sudden u-turn, cycling in the dark with black clothing and no lights and so on. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but as a cyclist you have to bring a tiny modicum of common sense and situational awareness into the situation.
    I'm looking out for you (well, everyone of course) as much as I possibly can and at the end of the day both of us want to arrive home OK and in one piece.


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    #176
    Traumadoc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭Traumadoc


    Seems to me you would be quite upset if drivers lost their NCB for threatening /menacing behavior.


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    #177
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Traumadoc wrote: »
    Seems to me you would be quite upset if drivers lost their NCB for threatening /menacing behavior.

    Wouldn't worry me. Are you getting abused a lot on your bike?


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    #178
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,743 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    Wouldn't worry me. Are you getting abused a lot on your bike?
    I do very occasionally get people throwing fast food, eggs and various other items out of car windows at me. Or just shouting out the passenger window as they pass me, so they can laugh at my reaction. During the boom, this happened much more often: maybe once every few months.

    It would be hyperbole to describe it as racism, but it clearly comes from the same well of unthinking prejudice and bullying. It's not as serious, but by the same argument we shouldn't get worked up about workplace racism while there are still people being murdered.


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    #179
    cdaly_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,440 ✭✭✭cdaly_


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    This kind of behaviour happens when we think a particular group is contemptible because its members behave in a particular manner, and so by definition they don't deserve our respect. They're cyclists; they go through red lights. They're black; they take our jobs. They're old; they're slow to pay and hold the rest of us up.

    Once Istism comes in, humanity is lost.

    Granny Weatherwax: “Evil is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That’s what evil is.”

    Incidentally, there already exists an offence of "Driving without reasonable consideration" which attracts 2-4 penalty points which should have been invoked (at minimum) in the OP's case...


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    #180
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    The kind of hate speech that you'll easily find on Twitter aimed at cyclists is similar to the kind of stuff you'll find aimed at racial groups. There have been high profile cases of people who've lost their job as a result of hate speech, or online confessions about injuring cyclists.

    I can't post a direct link, but just search on Twitter for Fu**ing Cyclists and you'll see what's out there, particularly in the UK it seems.


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    #181
    cython
    Registered Users Posts: 4,757 ✭✭✭cython


    RainyDay wrote: »
    The kind of hate speech that you'll easily find on Twitter aimed at cyclists is similar to the kind of stuff you'll find aimed at racial groups. There have been high profile cases of people who've lost their job as a result of hate speech, or online confessions about injuring cyclists.

    I can't post a direct link, but just search on Twitter for Fu**ing Cyclists and you'll see what's out there, particularly in the UK it seems.

    2 examples: http://road.cc/content/news/149098-driver-fired-after-tweeting-about-hitting-cyclist and http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-investigating-drivers-hit-and-run-tweet-9961367.html

    EDIT: in case this is taken as me suggesting there are only 2 examples, it is not, I'm just providing the first 2 that I came across as the poster said they couldn't post direct links. There are plenty more, unfortunately.


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