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FAT, SICK & NEARLY DEAD

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    #182
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    From today's Independent discussing "detox" diets. I think that the"reboot" part of the juicing diet has an element of detoxing to it so I thought this might be relevant.


    http://www.independent.ie/life/health-wellbeing/health-features/detoxes-and-cleanses-are-they-a-science-or-a-scam-30750044.html


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    #183
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,448 ✭✭✭weisses


    jh79 wrote: »
    From today's Independent discussing "detox" diets. I think that the"reboot" part of the juicing diet has an element of detoxing to it so I thought this might be relevant.


    http://www.independent.ie/life/health-wellbeing/health-features/detoxes-and-cleanses-are-they-a-science-or-a-scam-30750044.html

    from your piece
    Enjoy A Healthy Balanced Lifestyle Instead

    From the reboot site
    A Reboot program, followed by a healthy lifestyle

    So you are having issues when someone would juice for three days or whatever the person feels good followed by a healthy lifestyle promoted in both pieces ??? .... why ??


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    #184
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    weisses wrote: »
    from your piece



    From the reboot site



    So you are having issues when someone would juice for three days or whatever the person feels good followed by a healthy lifestyle promoted in both pieces ??? .... why ??

    Not at all, I said the reboot has elements of "detox" to it, the reboot program it is claimed also helps "release stored up toxins". That part sounds like detox, would you agree?


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    #185
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,448 ✭✭✭weisses


    jh79 wrote: »
    Not at all, I said the reboot has elements of "detox" to it, the reboot program it is claimed also helps "release stored up toxins". That part sounds like detox, would you agree?

    Yes ..correct


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    #186
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    weisses wrote: »
    Yes ..correct

    Would you agree that juicing / rebooting has no effect on how toxins are removed by the body?


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    #187
    cormie
    Registered Users Posts: 20,835 ✭✭✭✭cormie


    What's the argument here?

    I read the article posted just there. Detoxing is the release of **** from the body, we can all agree on that. What's to say everything else she suggests is correct though? There's so much conflicting articles and claims out there, it's hard to know what to believe.

    Would it not be fair to say that as juicing is getting a high nutrient intake from the minimal amount of food intake, that it would aid the detox process as you're not consuming crap that you're trying to expel at the same time?

    I mean that article mentions dairy and occasional treats. The body will most likely want to get rid of whatever eating these will bring to the body, whether you call it toxins or not doesn't matter.


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    #188
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    cormie wrote: »
    What's the argument here?

    I read the article posted just there. Detoxing is the release of **** from the body, we can all agree on that. What's to say everything else she suggests is correct though? There's so much conflicting articles and claims out there, it's hard to know what to believe.

    Would it not be fair to say that as juicing is getting a high nutrient intake from the minimal amount of food intake, that it would aid the detox process as you're not consuming crap that you're trying to expel at the same time?

    I mean that article mentions dairy and occasional treats. The body will most likely want to get rid of whatever eating these will bring to the body, whether you call it toxins or not doesn't matter.

    No , as the rate of detox doesn't change. The juicing has no influence.


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    #189
    cormie
    Registered Users Posts: 20,835 ✭✭✭✭cormie


    If that is the case, then even if it doesn't increase the rate, does it not reduce the need to detox if you're not putting more crap into your body?


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    #190
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    cormie wrote: »
    If that is the case, then even if it doesn't increase the rate, does it not reduce the need to detox if you're not putting more crap into your body?

    The credit then goes to avoiding toxins not the juicing process, you can avoid toxins without juicing.


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    #191
    cormie
    Registered Users Posts: 20,835 ✭✭✭✭cormie


    Well toxins are referred to as quite extreme in that article where as dairy and occasional treats are said to be of no consequence and can be part of this "balanced diet". I wouldn't refer to these as healthy and it may be in somebodies best interest to avoid these altogether so not to consume these while wanting to detox?


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    #192
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    cormie wrote: »
    Well toxins are referred to as quite extreme in that article where as dairy and occasional treats are said to be of no consequence and can be part of this "balanced diet". I wouldn't refer to these as healthy and it may be in somebodies best interest to avoid these altogether so not to consume these while wanting to detox?

    Your detoxing all the time, your diet only influences how much there is to detox but not the speed or efficiency of the process.


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    #193
    cormie
    Registered Users Posts: 20,835 ✭✭✭✭cormie


    Yeah, so by doing something like juicing, you have less to detox, so perhaps your body has to work less and you in turn have more energy so the nutrients you do intake go towards benefiting you in other ways?


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    #194
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,448 ✭✭✭weisses


    jh79 wrote: »
    Would you agree that juicing / rebooting has no effect on how toxins are removed by the body?

    The mechanism itself is not changing AFAIK


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    #195
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    cormie wrote: »
    Yeah, so by doing something like juicing, you have less to detox, so perhaps your body has to work less and you in turn have more energy so the nutrients you do intake go towards benefiting you in other ways?

    No, by avoiding certain foods you have less to detox and juicing has no part to play in how the body removes toxins.


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    #196
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    cormie wrote: »
    Yeah, so by doing something like juicing, you have less to detox, so perhaps your body has to work less and you in turn have more energy so the nutrients you do intake go towards benefiting you in other ways?

    Fluids, food etc still have to pass through the digestive system / kidneys / liver etc irrespective of whether toxins are present i'd imagine this is the bulk of the effort.

    Take alcohol for example , 1unit per hour is the accepted clearance rate, if you where to introduce the greatest juice approved of by Joe Cross it will still be 1 unit per hour.


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    #197
    Call Me Jimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 8,449 ✭✭✭Call Me Jimmy


    Just watched it there and have read a few pages of the argument about juicing vs healthy diet.

    I'll tell you the difference between juicing (or blending whatever) and the healthy diet route from my perspective.

    As someone who was brought up on chips and junk food, the idea of eating certain foods is daunting (for example the foods in this film). Even fruit like bananas. It takes quite a bit more effort to prepare meals based around the same ingredients. Psychologically, it takes more effort to eat meals with all these nutrients. So I got a blender about a month ago and have felt the difference in terms of adding fruit to my diet.

    There is no 'magic' effect in the blender, it just facilitates me getting the extra nutrients that I would otherwise not get realistically. Then I notice the effects, and continue to do it and look at expanding into vegetables (I haven't eating vegetables besides potatoes in my life).

    The argument so far has not acknowledged the psychological side of things which is key.


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    #198
    cormie
    Registered Users Posts: 20,835 ✭✭✭✭cormie


    jh79 wrote: »
    No, by avoiding certain foods you have less to detox and juicing has no part to play in how the body removes toxins.
    jh79 wrote: »
    Fluids, food etc still have to pass through the digestive system / kidneys / liver etc irrespective of whether toxins are present i'd imagine this is the bulk of the effort.

    Take alcohol for example , 1unit per hour is the accepted clearance rate, if you where to introduce the greatest juice approved of by Joe Cross it will still be 1 unit per hour.

    Although you say no, you're not disagreeing with me. If the body has less to detox, then that's a good thing. I'm not saying juicing improves the detox process, but it fuels the body with nutrients that don't require detoxing. You could probably get the same effect steaming, eating raw salads etc but also with juicing?


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    #199
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    jh79 wrote: »
    From today's Independent discussing "detox" diets. I think that the"reboot" part of the juicing diet has an element of detoxing to it so I thought this might be relevant.


    http://www.independent.ie/life/health-wellbeing/health-features/detoxes-and-cleanses-are-they-a-science-or-a-scam-30750044.html

    That article is referring to "detox products" which has nothing to do with Juicing .........

    "What these detox products don't tell us is that our body makes its own anti-oxidants from the food we consume in our everyday diet. We don't need an overload of antioxidants and any additional ones are removed by the kidneys."

    ........... this paragraph in the article falls in line with what Juicers believe as a matter of fact.

    It's "the food we consume" part in particular that is at the very core of Juicing ethos.


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    #200
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    jh79 wrote: »
    No , as the rate of detox doesn't change. The juicing has no influence.
    jh79 wrote: »
    Your detoxing all the time, your diet only influences how much there is to detox but not the speed or efficiency of the process.

    "What these detox products don't tell us is that our body makes its own anti-oxidants from the food we consume in our everyday diet. We don't need an overload of antioxidants and any additional ones are removed by the kidneys."

    Juicing is a great way to aid this process .........


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    #201
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Call Me Jimmy wrote: »
    Just watched it there and have read a few pages of the argument about juicing vs healthy diet.

    I'll tell you the difference between juicing (or blending whatever) and the healthy diet route from my perspective.

    As someone who was brought up on chips and junk food, the idea of eating certain foods is daunting (for example the foods in this film). Even fruit like bananas. It takes quite a bit more effort to prepare meals based around the same ingredients. Psychologically, it takes more effort to eat meals with all these nutrients. So I got a blender about a month ago and have felt the difference in terms of adding fruit to my diet.

    There is no 'magic' effect in the blender, it just facilitates me getting the extra nutrients that I would otherwise not get realistically. Then I notice the effects, and continue to do it and look at expanding into vegetables (I haven't eating vegetables besides potatoes in my life).

    The argument so far has not acknowledged the psychological side of things which is key.

    The psychological effect is immense and well worth mentioning .......


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    #202
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    cormie wrote: »
    Although you say no, you're not disagreeing with me. If the body has less to detox, then that's a good thing. I'm not saying juicing improves the detox process, but it fuels the body with nutrients that don't require detoxing. You could probably get the same effect steaming, eating raw salads etc but also with juicing?

    But the mentioning of it by Joe Cross as an advantage of the "reboot / juicing" process is misleading, it has no influence on the storage or removal of toxins.

    Toxins are only a problem if the rate of intake is much higher than the rate of detox, a normal person can have the occasional kebab and a few pints and be just as healthy as Joe Cross as long as the rest of their diet meets their nutritional needs. Juicing would be of no benefit to this type of person.


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    #203
    degrassinoel
    Registered Users Posts: 10,736 ✭✭✭✭degrassinoel


    the thing is, the video isn't dealing with normal people as you put it


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    #204
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    degrassinoel wrote: »
    the thing is, the video isn't dealing with normal people as you put it

    If they follow the advice of the movie an embark on a balanced diet doesn't juicing then become unecessary ?


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    #205
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    degrassinoel wrote: »
    the thing is, the video isn't dealing with normal people as you put it

    Exactly, Joe and Phil were in an extreme situation and they believed (as I do) that Juicing was their only way back in the time-frame they had ........ and the movie showed that their belief in Juicing was well-founded


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    #206
    degrassinoel
    Registered Users Posts: 10,736 ✭✭✭✭degrassinoel


    jh79 wrote: »
    If they follow the advice of the movie an embark on a balanced diet doesn't juicing then become unecessary ?

    depends on themselves tbh, if the benefits of using that diet even for a short time to increase their health then i'd say yes it's a good weapon in their dietary arsenal to combat whatever ailment they have.

    Personally i think it's worth considering that juicing if used as part of a diet or change of, could be very beneficial to people of all walks of life, it doesn't mean you should or have to stop eating solid foods altogether either, otherwise where's the fun?


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    #207
    cormie
    Registered Users Posts: 20,835 ✭✭✭✭cormie


    jh79 wrote: »
    But the mentioning of it by Joe Cross as an advantage of the "reboot / juicing" process is misleading, it has no influence on the storage or removal of toxins.

    Toxins are only a problem if the rate of intake is much higher than the rate of detox, a normal person can have the occasional kebab and a few pints and be just as healthy as Joe Cross as long as the rest of their diet meets their nutritional needs. Juicing would be of no benefit to this type of person.

    I'm not so sure about the "just as healthy if they hadn't" statement, whether or not it gives any long term health implications is the question I guess, but at the same time, everyone's environment and lifestyle is so different, it would never really be possible to determine the cause of disease based on diet alone.


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    #208
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    cormie wrote: »
    I'm not so sure about the "just as healthy if they hadn't" statement, whether or not it gives any long term health implications is the question I guess, but at the same time, everyone's environment and lifestyle is so different, it would never really be possible to determine the cause of disease based on diet alone.

    Your body can process a certain amount of toxins without it affecting your health.

    For example someone who drinks a few units of alcohol a week would have as healthy a liver as someone who never drinks.

    Have you considered juicing and upper tolerable levels of nutrients? Vitamins have the potential to be toxic too and juicing to excess could be a problem.


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    #209
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    degrassinoel wrote: »
    depends on themselves tbh, if the benefits of using that diet even for a short time to increase their health then i'd say yes it's a good weapon in their dietary arsenal to combat whatever ailment they have.

    Personally i think it's worth considering that juicing if used as part of a diet or change of, could be very beneficial to people of all walks of life, it doesn't mean you should or have to stop eating solid foods altogether either, otherwise where's the fun?

    I don't have any real issues with juicing after all it is just blending veg and is about as groundbreaking as soup .

    The benefits of juicing are vastly overstated by Joe Cross.


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    #210
    degrassinoel
    Registered Users Posts: 10,736 ✭✭✭✭degrassinoel


    maybe they are, and maybe because he has an agenda in that respect too


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    #211
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    degrassinoel wrote: »
    maybe they are, and maybe because he has an agenda in that respect too

    For me it is an infomercial, it fails to really investigate possible benefits to juicing.


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