Woman killed, 7 injured in garda chase outside Kildare

LeBash · 24-10-2014 12:05am

There is nobody here or that i know personally that would be outraged if these guys got 10 years with no chance of early release, so i can never understand why the government and the entire legal system doesnt follow through.

Id love a legislation passed that said if there was a robbery murder man slaughter etc to a person and it was by a convicted ciminal who is out early or on release that the person or family could sue the state for not protecting them.

Bongalongherb · 24-10-2014 12:32am

Karma will come to those bastards for-sure, or something/someone else will.

The justice system in this country is fecked, as I've been harping on about for years is in a complete reversal... 'meaning' it qualifies the best wishes of criminals instead of the victims. Something is going to give to get those arsehole judges to take serious the need for proper sentences.

That could have been my mother, or your mother of which died, it's fcuked up.

wandatowell · 24-10-2014 12:45am

Blay wrote: »

The Gardai were attempting to box the Polo in, the victim was apparently attempting to merge and ended up in the middle of the manouvere between the lead Garda car and the Polo. It's hardly a job for Sherlock.

I didnt need it explained but thanks anyway.

The point I was making was that its strange for someone to get caught up in the middle of such a maneuver.

Galwayguy35 · 24-10-2014 12:46am

RIP to the poor woman that lost her life, I feel sorry for the Garda that was driving the car as well.

I'm sure when this story appears in my FB newsfeed tomorrow the comments from the buddies of the tossers in the Polo will be interesting...

freshpopcorn · 24-10-2014 12:53am

R.I.P to the women killed.
In my honest opinion they only people to blame were those being chased.
If the Gardai didn't chase them or only used a chopper and they crashed people would say they should have followed them\forced them to stop.

Slicemeister · 24-10-2014 12:54am

The Garda Ombudsman's enquiry will garner more publicity than the trial of the scum driving the car unfortunately.

God help that lady's family, what a horror.

JillyQ · 24-10-2014 8:16am

--LOS-- wrote: »

Where are you all getting 7 people from including guards, any news source so far says 5 people taken to hospital, doesn't specify what people

The seven people include the two guards.

TheNog · 24-10-2014 8:19am

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

However I would like to know why it's seen as a necessity to chase youths on a busy motorway. Is not far more convenient to just follow them with a chopper of sorts to avoid what happened.

It's also like to know if the garda who stopped them were qualified to pursue at high speed s

It happened at 9pm last night so was dark and no way of actually identifying the occupants of the Polo as youths or not. Add the fact that this pursuit would have been at a fairly high speed with some dangerous driving.

The Garda helicoptor is based in Baldonnel Aerodrome and operates under certain constraints such as weather, manpower, budget etc

RIP to the poor woman and her family. A terrible tragedy. God love the Gardai involved.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 24-10-2014 8:29am

So sad and tragic. Maybe if the government resourced the gardai with proper pursuit cars and equipment then it wouldnt have happened. The guards were probably in a less powerful car than the scumbags VW Polo!

REXER · 24-10-2014 8:38am

I regard Gardai involved in high speed pursuits that causes death or injury of innocent bystanders exactly the same as I would armed police that open fire in a crowded location causing injury or death of innocent bystanders.
Irresponsible!
Do they not have radios and can they not organize a coordinated response to end these sort of situations?

RIP to the innocent victim of this senseless chase. A very sad and unnecessary outcome!

bucketybuck · 24-10-2014 8:41am

In some states in the US if somebody gets killed because of a crime such as burglary being committed, the burglar can be convicted for the killing as well as it wouldn't have happened if he hadn't committed the burglary. So if two people break into a house and the homeowner shoots one of the them, the other burglar can be charged with manslaughter for the death of the 2nd burglar. Its a great law.

Each of the five scumbags in the Polo should be charged with the vehicular manslaughter of this woman. They would probably still get released, but at least they would officially be murdering scum.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 24-10-2014 8:43am

REXER wrote: »

I regard Gardai involved in high speed pursuits that causes death or injury of innocent bystanders exactly the same as I would armed police that open fire in a crowded location causing injury or death of innocent bystanders.
Irresponsible!
Do they not have radios and can they not organize a coordinated response to end these sort of situations?
!

Where have you been the last few years? the Gardai have zero resources, age old cars and dropping personnel numbers. How exactly do you expect them to organise a co-ordinated approach with clapped out cars and bugger all man power?

Laois6556 · 24-10-2014 8:45am

It's a really sad story. You have to feel really sorry for the womans family. RIP.

You have to ask why the gardaí were attempting to block the scumbags though, especially in the position they chose. A car travelling at such high speed crashing into the garda car wouldn't have ended well either. No slip roads were closed, no warning for motorists, it just wasn't safe to attempt any manoeuvre.

nelly17 · 24-10-2014 8:48am

Its shocking such a terrible tragedy

SEPT 23 1989 · 24-10-2014 8:49am

Do the Gardai have the same level of training as the motorway cops in the UK?

TheNog · 24-10-2014 8:52am

REXER wrote: »

I regard Gardai involved in high speed pursuits that causes death or injury of innocent bystanders exactly the same as I would armed police that open fire in a crowded location causing injury or death of innocent bystanders.
Irresponsible!
Do they not have radios and can they not organize a coordinated response to end these sort of situations?

RIP to the innocent victim of this senseless chase. A very sad and unnecessary outcome!

Rexer a pursuit is a constantly changing situation second by second. Although you can try to put quickly laid plans in place they do not always work. You try to plan for many outcomes but cannot plan for everything. Until a detailed investigation is complete we cannot confidently point the blame at anyone yet.

Vehicle pursuits happen very regularly throughout the country and are not reported in the media. I do not have any stats but would be confident in saying they happen daily or almost daily somewhere in Ireland. Many pursuits end successfully without injury, many are ended by the Gardai because the pursuit was considered too dangerous for the public, the driver of the car being pursued and the Gardai pursuing.

Cyber Ghost · 24-10-2014 8:53am

Scumbags.

R.I.P to that poor woman

TheNog · 24-10-2014 8:54am

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Do the Gardai have the same level of training as the motorway cops in the UK?

Yes certain Gardai are trained to Advanced Driving level which would include pursuits. The level of training is the same as in the UK.

REXER · 24-10-2014 9:01am

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Where have you been the last few years? the Gardai have zero resources, age old cars and dropping personnel numbers. How exactly do you expect them to organise a co-ordinated approach with clapped out cars and bugger all man power?

So do you really feel that that should exonerate them for escalating the situation?

http://www.finegael.ie/our-people/tds/bernard-durkan/update-garda-motor-fleet-/

As of 22 September 2014 the Garda fleet was 2513, with 438 new vehicles added in 2013 and 88 new vehicles added so far (up to 22 September) in 2014.

That is more than 20% of the fleet that is practically new.

Most of what I see on the road are substantially newer than what I drive!

Gannicus · 24-10-2014 9:02am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Sure god love them. You can see the script in front of the judge already - "only buzzin, nuthin to do, bad upbringing" etc

Don't forget the facebook statuses from fellow scummers:
"Get well soon."
"He's a lovely bloke"
"Couldn't meet a nicer bloke. feel better soon"

KungPao wrote: »

They have a lack of 'facilities' in fairness. Poor lads.

My arse. there is more facilities now then I had as a teenager and I never resorted to joyriding or manslaughter (which is what I hope each of the five of those scumbags get).

foggy_lad · 24-10-2014 9:04am

shuffles88 wrote: »

We need to crack down seriously on this sort of behaviour. None of these little scrotes have any fear because they'll most likely walk away with a slap on the wrist when all is said and done. A woman who was innocently going about her day is now dead because of the actions of the 5 people in that car. No doubt a family somewhere not too far away from me right now has had their hearts ripped out because of the stupid reckless f*ckery of those arseholes.

Innocentlygoing about her day! Adding to and benefiting her family and community and society!

Those five bastards will have all their medical and court expenses paid for by us ordinary people just like the unfortunate woman they murdered! They will be a burden on the state while they will always seek to steal and burgle our homes. They will most likely bring cases against the state and Gardai for compensation for their injuries and win.

It is about time for one of the few american police policy's I believe in, and these ****s can be driven into the barriers or into the ditch to stop them, even if it kills them they are committing a crime so if they die it is their own tough luck!

Time to protect the public at large!

FionnK86 · 24-10-2014 9:07am

Gannicus wrote: »

Don't forget the facebook statuses from fellow scummers:
"Get well soon."
"He's a lovely bloke"
"Couldn't meet a nicer bloke. feel better soon"

My arse. there is more facilities now then I had as a teenager and I never resorted to joyriding or manslaughter (which is what I hope each of the five of those scumbags get).

I have a feeling the criminals involved in this one, were not scumbag youths from a disadvantage background. I believe they probably had a comfortable upbringing funded by their relation to thieves, you know them type of people.

foggy_lad · 24-10-2014 9:12am

REXER wrote: »

I regard Gardai involved in high speed pursuits that causes death or injury of innocent bystanders exactly the same as I would armed police that open fire in a crowded location causing injury or death of innocent bystanders.
Irresponsible!
Do they not have radios and can they not organize a coordinated response to end these sort of situations?

RIP to the innocent victim of this senseless chase. A very sad and unnecessary outcome!

I regard bastards that kill an innocent bystander while they are committing crime or evading capture as murdering scum that deserve a nasty end so let the Gardai stop them with maximum force having regard for the safety of the public.

Caliden · 24-10-2014 9:20am

REXER wrote: »

So do you really feel that that should exonerate them for escalating the situation?

http://www.finegael.ie/our-people/tds/bernard-durkan/update-garda-motor-fleet-/

As of 22 September 2014 the Garda fleet was 2513, with 438 new vehicles added in 2013 and 88 new vehicles added so far (up to 22 September) in 2014.

That is more than 20% of the fleet that is practically new.

Most of what I see on the road are substantially newer than what I drive!

The cars may be newer but they're not exactly built for high speed motorway pursuits and are mainly diesels.

The UK motorway cops have high powered (300bhp+) cars capable of going 170mph and those are cars that are built for going that speed.

Just last year there was a gang in Galway/Mayo that was able to outrun the Gardai in a Subaru Legacy which had about 250hp and was 4 wheel drive so it easily out ran those chasing.

Pedro K · 24-10-2014 9:24am

The very notion of a high speed chase in a polo is laughable. Our coppers need to be given decent vehicles and proper pursuit training.

BMW offered to provide our Gardai with a purpose built fleet a while back for a very competitive price.

Ah no. Just keep sending them out in Yarises, Fiestas and Puntos.

ThisRegard · 24-10-2014 9:26am

REXER wrote: »

I regard Gardai involved in high speed pursuits that causes death or injury of innocent bystanders exactly the same as I would armed police that open fire in a crowded location causing injury or death of innocent bystanders.
Irresponsible!
Do they not have radios and can they not organize a coordinated response to end these sort of situations?

RIP to the innocent victim of this senseless chase. A very sad and unnecessary outcome!

You've no idea what happened, but sure jump to tabloid conclusions anyway

endacl · 24-10-2014 9:29am

Pedro K wrote: »

The very notion of a high speed chase in a polo is laughable. Our coppers need to be given decent vehicles and proper pursuit training.

BMW offered to provide our Gardai with a purpose built fleet a while back for a very competitive price.

Ah no. Just keep sending them out in Yarises, Fiestas and Puntos.

It was the servicing and maintenance costs that scuppered that one. The fleet has to be maintained, and BMW part aren't cheap.

FionnK86 · 24-10-2014 9:31am

All the guards around Newbridge have new Mondeos and Volvos, which are satisfactory for chases. The problem isn't the fleet, it's not having the monitoring hardware in place to track fugitives on the road.

eviltwin · 24-10-2014 9:31am

One of the occupants of the car was just 13!!! What the fcuk is wrong with this country? I think this story is so sad, as someone else said it could have been anyone of us. RIP to the victim.

the_monkey · 24-10-2014 9:35am

Pity it looks like the scum in the car will survive this, will probably sue the Gardai and be awarded 1000's in compensation.

The Muppet · 24-10-2014 9:40am

Condolences to the family of poor lady who died last night.

Now that they are caught I hope that those in the polo are dealth with for the crimes they committed that led to this tragedy.

I hope the injured Garda make a full recovery.

I don't wish to be critical of the Garda especially as we don't have the full details however the incident does raise some questions.

I'd like to know why the car was being chased, I've seen reports that it was due to an unpaid toll, surely that can't be true. There is no way the public should have been put at risk like they were over something so trivial.

Making a boxing maneuver at a slip road sounds crazily dangerous to me too, were all the Garda drivers involved trained in such maneuvers . Hopefully the ombudsman report will give the answers.

Guy:Incognito · 24-10-2014 9:42am

Caliden wrote: »

The cars may be newer but they're not exactly built for high speed motorway pursuits and are mainly diesels.

The UK motorway cops have high powered (300bhp+) cars capable of going 170mph and those are cars that are built for going that speed.

Just last year there was a gang in Galway/Mayo that was able to outrun the Gardai in a Subaru Legacy which had about 250hp and was 4 wheel drive so it easily out ran those chasing.

Do you need to do 170 to keep up with a polo with 5 people in it?

hollypink · 24-10-2014 9:45am

The Muppet wrote: »

I'd like to know why the car was being chased, I've seen reports that it was due to an unpaid toll, surely that can't be true. There is no way the public should have been put at risk like they were over something so trivial.

I thought I heard on the news that it crashed through the toll barrier, and that's why the gardai pursued it. Presumably they felt the public were at risk?

Poor woman and her family.

FionnK86 · 24-10-2014 9:48am

The Muppet wrote: »

Condolences to the family of poor lady who died last night.

Now that they are caught I hope that those in the polo are dealth with for the crimes they committed that led to this tragedy.

I hope the injured Garda make a full recovery.

I don't wish to be critical of the Garda especially as we don't have the full details however the incident does raise some questions.

I'd like to know why the car was being chased, I've seen reports that it was due to an unpaid toll, surely that can't be true. There is no way the public should have been put at risk like they were over something so trivial.

Making a boxing maneuver at a slip road sounds crazily dangerous to me too, were all the Garda drivers involved trained in such maneuvers . Hopefully the ombudsman report will give the answers.

I didn't see any reports of an unpaid toll? Where are they? There are reports they were robbing homes in Tipperary.

bucketybuck · 24-10-2014 9:49am

A lot of armchair refereeing here towards the guards when we don't have the faintest idea what actually happened.

Perhaps they were highly trained, perhaps the cars were perfectly able to catch the polo. (Obviously they were in fact, seeing as they had caught it).

If a police car is right beside the fleeing suspect car then you know what, actually no I don't want them to stop and let the scumbags get away in case an accident happens. I do want them to try and force the other car off the road. I do feel for the innocent woman who got caught up in this but thats just hindsight, a culture where the guards will refuse to chase any fleeing suspect just leads to a culture where the scumbags will try to flee at speed every single time safe in the knowledge that they won't be chased.

bucketybuck · 24-10-2014 9:51am

The Muppet wrote: »

I'd like to know why the car was being chased, I've seen reports that it was due to an unpaid toll, surely that can't be true. There is no way the public should have been put at risk like they were over something so trivial.

The scumbags will just love that one.

"Telling ye mate, if the cops try to pull you over just floor it and drive like a mad one, they won't chase ye at all like..."

Barely There · 24-10-2014 9:54am

The Muppet wrote: »

I don't wish to be critical of the Garda especially as we don't have the full details however

You really should have stopped there.

TheNog · 24-10-2014 9:57am

The Muppet wrote: »

I don't wish to be critical of the Garda especially as we don't have the full details however the incident does raise some questions.

I'd like to know why the car was being chased, I've seen reports that it was due to an unpaid toll, surely that can't be true. There is no way the public should have been put at risk like they were over something so trivial.

No it is reported they were possibly involved involved in a number of burglaries in the north Tipperary area

http://www.independent.ie/news/innocent-woman-killed-and-seven-injured-after-garda-chase-ends-in-tragedy-innocent-woman-30689186.html

Even still if a pursuit occurred even from an unpaid toll it would mean something more serious is behind the reason why they were failing to stop. Sometimes pursuits start with no obvious reason known to Gardai at the time of pursuing.

Making a boxing maneuver at a slip road sounds crazily dangerous to me too, were all the Garda drivers involved trained in such maneuvers . Hopefully the ombudsman report will give the answers.

The media reports a boxing in maneourve which could mean either an attempt to box in the Polo to stop it involving 2-4 Garda patrol cars or it could simply mean one patrol car was trying to keep the Polo on the motorway because pursuits generally are safer on the motorway as opposed to high speeds on country roads. At this time we simply do not know.

Iranoutofideas · 24-10-2014 9:57am

Said on Newstalk the occupants of the Polo are travellers.

nelly17 · 24-10-2014 9:58am

Theres a lot of people being very critical of the guards here - I'm sure the Guards involved are devistated (if well enough to know what happened) the real culprits here are the little scroats in that Polo - this whole thing is THEIR fault and nobody elses

The Muppet · 24-10-2014 10:01am

Barely There wrote: »

You really should have stopped there.

Perhaps but i'm not a sheep, An innocent woman died last night , the questions I rasied and others need to be answered.

Curly Judge · 24-10-2014 10:07am

Iranoutofideas wrote: »

Said on Newstalk the occupants of the Polo are travellers.

I think they said they were a gang of travelling burglars.
Whether that is a gang of burglars who travel or a gang of travellers who burgle is not clear at this stage.
The bit about them crashing through the toll barrier at Portlaoise seems to have been what alerted the Gardi in the first place.

PrettyBoy · 24-10-2014 10:08am

All 5 suspects discharged from hospital, no arrests made yet.

The Muppet · 24-10-2014 10:09am

TheNog wrote: »

No it is reported they were possibly involved involved in a number of burglaries in the north Tipperary area

http://www.independent.ie/news/innocent-woman-killed-and-seven-injured-after-garda-chase-ends-in-tragedy-innocent-woman-30689186.html

Even still if a pursuit occurred even from an unpaid toll it would mean something more serious is behind the reason why they were failing to stop. Sometimes pursuits start with no obvious reason known to Gardai at the time of pursuing.

I accept that but we've all seen such maneuvers on TV and it always for serious crime the safety of other road users is always of primary concern to the police carrying out the stop.

The media reports a boxing in maneourve which could mean either an attempt to box in the Polo to stop it involving 2-4 Garda patrol cars or it could simply mean one patrol car was trying to keep the Polo on the motorway because pursuits generally are safer on the motorway as opposed to high speeds on country roads. At this time we simply do not know.

Guess we'll have to wait on the outcome of the investigation so.

whiskeyman · 24-10-2014 10:10am

PrettyBoy wrote: »

All 5 suspects discharged from hospital, no arrests made yet.

link??

Indo said this morning:

The five males remain in hospital today with serious injuries, but they are not believed to be life-threatening.

The_Captain · 24-10-2014 10:14am

FionnK86 wrote: »

I have a feeling the criminals involved in this one, were not scumbag youths from a disadvantage background. I believe they probably had a comfortable upbringing funded by their relation to thieves, you know them type of people.

The kind of people who have a knack for travelling

Laois6556 · 24-10-2014 10:17am

Of course it's the scumbags fault that the woman died but the gardaí have to answer questions if they tried a manouvre that put an innocent persons life at risk.

TheNog · 24-10-2014 10:20am

The Muppet wrote: »

I accept that but we've all seen such maneuvers on TV and it always for serious crime the safety of other road users is always of primary concern to the police carrying out the stop.
.

The same happens in this country too. When pursuits get too dangerous they are called off. The pursuing Gardai don't want people getting hurt. The Garda driver of the patrol car has actually a lot more to lose than anyone else involved if someone is injured or killed

ChippingSodbury · 24-10-2014 10:22am

bucketybuck wrote: »

A lot of armchair refereeing here towards the guards when we don't have the faintest idea what actually happened.

If a police car is right beside the fleeing suspect car then you know what, actually no I don't want them to stop and let the scumbags get away in case an accident happens. I do want them to try and force the other car off the road. I do feel for the innocent woman who got caught up in this but thats just hindsight ...

I'd say that is cold comfort to the family of the poor lady who was killed. "Catch the baddies at all costs". Would you feel the same way if it was your brother/ sister etc. killed as a result of a pursuit? I know I'd rather have my loved ones still around and the odd baddie escape (to be captured another day...)

Having said that, I sincerely hope the gardai followed their pursuit protocols to the letter and all blame is placed with the polo occupants. They've got a tough job and 99% of them do it extremely well for little thanks from the public.

RoboRat · 24-10-2014 10:24am

I hope to fcuk that the driver of the polo is charged with murder, probably will only get 'dangerous driving' and a slap on the wrist but he should be tried for murder.

Woman killed, 7 injured in garda chase outside Kildare

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