Malaysia Airlines plane shot down in Ukraine near Russian border[Mod warning post#193

sin_city · 18-07-2014 3:21am

Second Malaysian plane goes missing in 4 months and this is allegedly shot down in an area of the world the US is very interested in.

Now without proof we are told Pro Russian rebels shot it down.

Some of the passports survived the crash but nothing else.

Meanwhile no longer in the headlines, Israel launches a ground invasion into Gaza.

Are you kidding me? Jesus, I hope people don’t take what is being reported as face value.

This smells of bullsh!t so bad.

Indestructable · 18-07-2014 3:28am

sin_city wrote: »

Second Malaysian plane goes missing in 4 months and this is allegedly shot down in an area of the world the US is very interested in.

Now without proof we are told Pro Russian rebels shot it down.

Some of the passports survived the crash but nothing else.

Meanwhile no longer in the headlines, Israel launches a ground invasion into Gaza.

Are you kidding me? Jesus, I hope people don’t take what is being reported as face value.

This smells of bullsh!t so bad.

What do you meant some of the passports survived but nothing else? What would you like??

Jack1985 · 18-07-2014 3:28am

sin_city wrote: »

Second Malaysian plane goes missing in 4 months and this is allegedly shot down in an area of the world the US is very interested in.

Now without proof we are told Pro Russian rebels shot it down.

Some of the passports survived the crash but nothing else.

Meanwhile no longer in the headlines, Israel launches a ground invasion into Gaza.

Are you kidding me? Jesus, I hope people don’t take what is being reported as face value.

This smells of bullsh!t so bad.

There's bodies scattered everywhere at the location of the crash. Please don't remove facts to support whatever agenda you are pursuing. Also Israel's invasion of Gaza is headline everywhere pop on CNN! And also the pro-russians very much have form, two other aircraft downed in the same area this week - Commander in the area tweets he got an Antov Cargo plane 30 mins after it went down, and has since deleted the tweet.

Honestly for whatever conspiracy theories you are trying to push here go to the relevant forum, its just over 12hrs ffs. :rolleyes:

youreadthat · 18-07-2014 3:34am

Yeah just passports mate............. oh and brains, feet, lungs, heads, books, luggage.

Israel doesn't care enough about headlines. They don't need help covering their actions. Their citizens are fed up with Gaza missiles, America won't condemn them ever, and their neighbors hate them whatever they do. It also happens every few years, no need to risk an international conflict in Europe to carry out the regular Gaza bitch slap.

sin_city · 18-07-2014 4:07am

Jack1985 wrote: »

Honestly for whatever conspiracy theories you are trying to push here go to the relevant forum, its just over 12hrs ffs. :rolleyes:

A second Malaysian plane goes missing in an area where the US was involved in a coup and now immediately blames Russia…..FFS…I’m sorry to disturb you…Now put that head back in the sand

What is Russia saying on this? You obviously haven’t investigated but are quick to end a discussion throwing out the conspiracy word.

If they can fake an event that start the Vietnam war then surely we must be on alert before events like this trigger further actions or excuses to invade…then again…you wouldn’t know…your head is in the sand

galwayjohn89 · 18-07-2014 4:33am

sin_city wrote: »

A second Malaysian plane goes missing in an area where the US was involved in a coup and now immediately blames Russia…..FFS…I’m sorry to disturb you…Now put that head back in the sand

What is Russia saying on this? You obviously haven’t investigated but are quick to end a discussion throwing out the conspiracy word.

If they can fake an event that start the Vietnam war then surely we must be on alert before events like this trigger further actions or excuses to invade…then again…you wouldn’t know…your head is in the sand

What about the deleted tweets claiming they shot down a plane?

kingshankly · 18-07-2014 5:41am

sin_city wrote: »

A second Malaysian plane goes missing in an area where the US was involved in a coup and now immediately blames Russia…..FFS…I’m sorry to disturb you…Now put that head back in the sand

What is Russia saying on this? You obviously haven’t investigated but are quick to end a discussion throwing out the conspiracy word.

If they can fake an event that start the Vietnam war then surely we must be on alert before events like this trigger further actions or excuses to invade…then again…you wouldn’t know…your head is in the sand

Dint think they had wifi in mental institutions

pclancy · 18-07-2014 6:25am

Don't feed the conspiracy troll, hit report post

Seriously, How unlucky can one airline be?

There must have been tons of other aircraft in the area. Seems like no target identification done just "attack that blip"

But what's the deal with the reports of it being escorted by Ukrainian fighter jets?

Lingua Franca · 18-07-2014 6:28am

sin_city wrote: »

What is Russia saying on this?

“I would like to point out in this regard, that this tragedy would not have occurred if there was peace in that land, at least, if hostilities had not resumed in the South-East of Ukraine,” Putin said. “And without question, the state over whose territory this took place, bears responsibility for this awful tragedy.”

You obviously haven’t investigated but are quick to end a discussion throwing out the conspiracy word

Jack1985 obviously hasn't investigated? This from the person who, absolutely bizarrely, claims that nothing survived the crash but some passports. Go back and read the whole thread and click on some links and watch some news and read a few articles first before coming back to annoy everyone with your totally uninformed and made up conspiracy theories.

Lingua Franca · 18-07-2014 6:30am

pclancy wrote: »

But what's the deal with the reports of it being escorted by Ukrainian fighter jets?

Never heard anything about that but there was an Air France and I think a Singapore airlines craft within 25km of MH17. There's a screenshot of the live flight radar and those are the only known aircraft near it.

jacksie66 · 18-07-2014 6:55am

This post has been deleted.

donvito99 · 18-07-2014 7:06am

Without a doubt the most shocking few months in Aviation since 9/11 and it's immediate aftermath. Politics, circumstances and perpetrators aside, I cannot begin to imagine how this blow can be taken by the good people over at Malaysian, an absolutely torrid year for them.

lord lucan · 18-07-2014 7:17am

sin_city wrote: »

Second Malaysian plane goes missing in 4 months and this is allegedly shot down in an area of the world the US is very interested in.

Now without proof we are told Pro Russian rebels shot it down.

Some of the passports survived the crash but nothing else.

Meanwhile no longer in the headlines, Israel launches a ground invasion into Gaza.

Are you kidding me? Jesus, I hope people don’t take what is being reported as face value.

This smells of bullsh!t so bad.

cut it out, there's a conspiracy theories forum if you want to take that line of thinking forward, this is not the place for it.

Preset No.3 · 18-07-2014 7:40am

Seeing as how this is the aviation forum, and not conspiracy theories or after hours, I will return this to aviation in the purest form.

What does the loss of 2 airframes do for the Malaysian route network. Was the airframe lost on MH370 already replaced? According to airfleets they have 2 777's in storage.

Lingua Franca · 18-07-2014 7:56am

pclancy wrote: »

But what's the deal with the reports of it being escorted by Ukrainian fighter jets?

Further investigation finds this: https://twitter.com/blamedandshamed/status/489828713291591680

A Spanish ATC in Kiev? That doesn't sound right. And the twitter account it emanated from was deactivated.

Boots234 · 18-07-2014 8:04am

Will Malaysia airlines provide a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur as normal for those that have bookings for today? I'm presuming they will be avoiding Ukrainian airspace

SEPT 23 1989 · 18-07-2014 8:05am

How does insurance underwriting work now with this airline company,will they find it impossible to get covered after these two disasters?

Highflyer13 · 18-07-2014 8:11am

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/10975275/Leading-HIV-researchers-lost-as-flight-MH17-is-downed-in-Ukraine.html

Absolutely appalling loss of life. Over 100 HIV researchers on their way to a conference in Aus trying to make real change. I feel sick to the stomach today at the world we are living in.

Lingua Franca · 18-07-2014 8:13am

Boots234 wrote: »

Will Malaysia airlines provide a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur as normal for those that have bookings for today? I'm presuming they will be avoiding Ukrainian airspace

They provided a scheduled one last night, even. Dutch news crews were interviewing potential passengers on the evening news.

Kunkka · 18-07-2014 8:58am

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

How does insurance underwriting work now with this airline company,will they find it impossible to get covered after these two disasters?

War is an exclusion anyway on any type of insurance policy so any compensation won't be covered by the insurance company.

For the previous disaster they still don't know what the cause was for the incident so I'd expect the insurance company hasn't paid out on that either as if the liability lies with the manufacturers or a staff member that would be excluded too.

However you're right two incidents in close proximity could lead to insurers pulling the plug and no one offering cover at all which in turn would shut down the airline as there are certain obligations to all Airlines to have the relevant cover.

RIP to everyone on board absolutely senseless thing to happen. To the scum I've seen on videos celebrating after they hit their target I hope they all get what's coming to them.

rainbowtrout · 18-07-2014 9:25am

Boots234 wrote: »

Will Malaysia airlines provide a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur as normal for those that have bookings for today? I'm presuming they will be avoiding Ukrainian airspace

Yes just had a look at Schiphol departures. Flight MH17 goes at 12. I think it's a daily flight to KL.

whitebriar · 18-07-2014 9:40am

Kunkka wrote: »

War is an exclusion anyway on any type of insurance policy so any compensation won't be covered by the insurance company.

Its not a war.At best it might be an insurrection,but the competent authority calls it terrorism.The route was in use.
so I don't see how insurance would be voided.

The 370 incident will probably be declared a hijacking so covered.

Kunkka · 18-07-2014 9:51am

whitebriar wrote: »

Its not a war.At best it might be an insurrection,but the competent authority calls it terrorism.The route was in use.
so I don't see how insurance would be voided.

It's been deemed a war in insurance terms. An old work colleague who works in the same industry as me(insurance) is from Ukraine and has said that property damage hasn't been paid out for that reason because of what is going on so I'd bet that theyd also find a way to exclude it for a potential claim worth 100s of million due to the fatalities.

Terrorism is also excluded on most policies not sure if it is on aviation or not but I'd imagine after 9/11 it is an exclusion.

EDIT : A quick google and yes after 9/11 most insurers do not cover for terrorism or for hijack.

Peregrine · 18-07-2014 10:05am

Aviation Herald article provides a good summary as usual.
http://avherald.com/h?article=47770f9d&opt=0

smurfjed · 18-07-2014 10:14am

How does insurance underwriting work now with this airline company,will they find it impossible to get covered after these two disasters?

I'm sure that a flotilla of corporate jets owned by law firms crossed the atlantic last night, each seeking to find clients for forthcoming law cases.

:( They will sue everyone from Malaysian Airlines, Boeing, GE, Eurocontrol, Ukraine, Russia and probably even the missile manufacturer!

adam88 · 18-07-2014 10:20am

Kunkka wrote: »

It's been deemed a war in insurance terms. An old work colleague who works in the same industry as me(insurance) is from Ukraine and has said that property damage hasn't been paid out for that reason because of what is going on so I'd bet that theyd also find a way to exclude it for a potential claim worth 100s of million due to the fatalities.

Terrorism is also excluded on most policies not sure if it is on aviation or not but I'd imagine after 9/11 it is an exclusion.

EDIT : A quick google and yes after 9/11 most insurers do not cover for terrorism or for hijack.

Why bother insuring them so. It's hardly as if the bloody things just fall from the sky

Stallingrad · 18-07-2014 10:21am

New to the thread, just heard that the black boxes are found and on the way to Russia. Hardly the best place for them considering.

Who technically owns the black boxes and has there ever been a legal battle to get hold of them?

fr336 · 18-07-2014 10:24am

Stallingrad wrote: »

New to the thread, just heard that the black boxes are found and on the way to Russia. Hardly the best place for them considering.

Who technically owns the black boxes and has there ever been a legal battle to get hold of them?

Surely the airline.

whitebriar · 18-07-2014 10:24am

Kunkka wrote: »

It's been deemed a war in insurance terms. An old work colleague who works in the same industry as me(insurance) is from Ukraine and has said that property damage hasn't been paid out for that reason because of what is going on so I'd bet that theyd also find a way to exclude it for a potential claim worth 100s of million due to the fatalities.

Terrorism is also excluded on most policies not sure if it is on aviation or not but I'd imagine after 9/11 it is an exclusion.

EDIT : A quick google and yes after 9/11 most insurers do not cover for terrorism or for hijack.

I'd imagine aviation insurance is not the same.

homerjay2005 · 18-07-2014 10:30am

terrible tragedy.

is it possible that the plane just exploded in mid air as opposed to being shot down?

Malaysia Airlines plane shot down in Ukraine near Russian border[Mod warning post#193

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