Losing weight in 5 weeks.

Bruno26 · 22-05-2014 7:03am

desultory wrote: »

You're missing the point altogether.
It is possible to get fat from eating too much broccoli, if you could physically manage it, because you'd be going past your calorie output.

Just as it is possible to get fat from eating too much of any of the foods you've mentioned.
Just because sugar and grains aren't in the diet anymore doesn't give a free pass to the perfect body. You eat more calories than you put out and you'll gain weight, simple as.

My point us you can eat more calories than put out and nit gain weight but actually lose and maintain weight as calories from different foods have different effects in body- eg. Effect of wheat on insulin response and blood sugar

Blacktie. · 22-05-2014 7:36am

Bruno26 wrote: »

My point us you can eat more calories than put out and nit gain weight but actually lose and maintain weight as calories from different foods have different effects in body- eg. Effect of wheat on insulin response and blood sugar

What happens to the extra calories?

Bruno26 · 22-05-2014 7:49am

JJayoo wrote: »

If the only exercise you have done is walking and golf I take it you have pretty much zero muscle mass? if this is the case then 13 stone at 6 foot 1 isn't exactly lean.

My understanding of lean is someone is slim- not skinny with average to slightly below average body fat-nothing to do with muscle mass. I'm certainly not muscly. Does lean mean something else?

Someone lean/ muscly / ripped is someone who can be described by far more than the word lean.

AltAccount · 22-05-2014 8:00am

Bruno26 wrote: »

My understanding of lean is someone is slim- not skinny with average to slightly below average body fat-nothing to do with muscle mass. I'm certainly not muscly. Does lean mean something else?

Someone lean/ muscly / ripped is someone who can be described by far more than the word lean.

How many dead hang pullups can you do?

Bruno26 · 22-05-2014 8:05am

Blacktie. wrote: »

What happens to the extra calories?

I'm no scientist and as I've been warned on here about giving an alternative opinion, I direct you to the experts who describes all of this excellently and far better than I could- eg gary taubes,tim noakes or a new book the big fat surprise. Let people make up their own mind.

Caliden · 22-05-2014 9:19am

Bruno26 wrote: »

My point us you can eat more calories than put out and nit gain weight but actually lose and maintain weight as calories from different foods have different effects in body- eg. Effect of wheat on insulin response and blood sugar

Calorie surplus = gain weight.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's possible to actually maintain your current weight with a calorie deficit through strict dieting while weight training (again not sure if it's possible).

Bruno26 · 22-05-2014 9:25am

Caliden wrote: »

Calorie surplus = gain weight.

So we've been led to believe. My view based on my readings (not the common view) is this is correct if its the wrong type of calorie (from too much sugar & grains), but incorrect if eating the type of foods that do not create a spike in blood sugar levels, eg fats and protein.

Blacktie. · 22-05-2014 9:25am

Caliden wrote: »

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's possible to actually maintain your current weight with a calorie deficit through strict dieting while weight training (again not sure if it's possible).

Na this doesn't really make sense either. You can maintain your muscle mass not your weight. If you're using more energy than you're taking in it has to come from somewhere. Weight training will make better use of the food you do take in though.

Caliden · 22-05-2014 9:31am

Blacktie. wrote: »

Na this doesn't really make sense either. You can maintain your muscle mass not your weight. If you're using more energy than you're taking in it has to come from somewhere. Weight training will make better use of the food you do take in though.

Yea you're right, don't know why I even thought that was true.

Caliden · 22-05-2014 9:42am

Bruno26 wrote: »

Caliden wrote: »

Calorie surplus = gain weight.

So we've been led to believe. My view based on my readings (not the common view) is this is correct if its the wrong type of calorie (from too much sugar & grains), but incorrect if eating the type of foods that do not create a spike in blood sugar levels, eg fats and protein.

Are you talking about losing weight or lowering body fat %?

The later can be achieved by eating a surplus but having the majority of that surplus be muscle gain thus lowering your overall body fat %.

For example, you'll gain weight but because you've done weight training and eaten the correct amount of protein the weight gained will primarily be muscle.
The caveat is that your body has a limit to the amount of muscle you can gain per week/month/etc.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 22-05-2014 9:44am

Ok firstly can we all just take a breath.

I think the likelyhood of overeating on Brocolli and or green veg is pretty slim. The amount necessary to reach a level to get fat would be staggering and close to imopssibe, even runawaybishop should agree there

Unlimited Veggies

According to licensed nutritionist Monica Reinagel, the ratio of fiber and water to sugar and calories in most vegetables will naturally prevent overeating them and consequently gaining weight. Loyola University registered dietitian Brooke Schantz agrees, noting that people are not likely to have problems overeating nonstarchy vegetables unless they dress them up with extra calories and fat from butter, oil, cream or cheese.

above from the Livestrong website. Its all getting a bit tedious either way. Bruno and Bishop just have differing opinions. So lets leave it at that. On a side note since switching diets I've actually only averaged about 1400 calories a day and have not been even close to hungry on any day. I've dropped 3 lbs this week, probably mostly water weight but I have to say I feel healthier and dont crave anything at the moment.

Bruno26 · 22-05-2014 10:08am

Caliden wrote: »

Are you talking about losing weight or lowering body fat %?

Both but when you reach your appropriate weight then body fat % loss.

MickeyD · 22-05-2014 10:16am

I read this recently, quite interesting: http://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/25demi/the_effects_of_consuming_a_high_protein_diet_44/

Essentially they added extra protein to the diet and kept everything else the same (i.e. went from 2k cals to 2.8k, not replacing existing carb/fat with protein) but saw no changes in body composition, neither increased muscle mass or body fat. Not sure how credible the study is though.

Blacktie. · 22-05-2014 10:31am

MickeyD wrote: »

I read this recently, quite interesting: http://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/25demi/the_effects_of_consuming_a_high_protein_diet_44/

Essentially they added extra protein to the diet and kept everything else the same (i.e. went from 2k cals to 2.8k, not replacing existing carb/fat with protein) but saw no changes in body composition, neither increased muscle mass or body fat. Not sure how credible the study is though.

Dietary studies are notoriously difficult to conduct. Miss reporting actual consumption is a major issue.

It will be interesting to read the follow up study though.

cletus van damme · 22-05-2014 12:56pm

Caliden wrote: »

Calorie surplus = gain weight.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's possible to actually maintain your current weight with a calorie deficit through strict dieting while weight training (again not sure if it's possible).

Caliden wrote: »

Yea you're right, don't know why I even thought that was true.

well I don't know if it's true science-wise.

- but i went through a period of low calorie eating (1800 - 2000) and my body comp didn't change (although I begged it too).
Bumped up my calories to a more decent level (2400) and saw change.
Think it was something like metabolic damage.

granted it was only for a short period maybe 6 weeks.

Bruno26 · 22-05-2014 12:58pm

Loyola University registered dietitian Brooke Schantz agrees, noting that people are not likely to have problems overeating nonstarchy vegetables unless they dress them up with extra calories and fat from butter, oil, cream or cheese.

I believe this to be incorrect - this is the evil saturated fat and fear of fat theory that we've been brainwashed with since the 70s. I eat a lot of butter, cream, olive & coconut oil and some cheese. I've lost fat. Fats don't make you fat. Carbs make you fat.

diegroblers · 22-05-2014 1:22pm

Bruno26 wrote: »

I believe this to be incorrect - this is the evil saturated fat and fear of fat theory that we've been brainwashed with since the 70s. I eat a lot of butter, cream, olive & coconut oil and some cheese. I've lost fat. Fats don't make you fat. Carbs make you fat.

I agree with some of what you are saying, but is it possible that you have a reaction (not necessarily an allergy, but concerning your metabolic rate) with carbs, but otherwise a fast metabolism? I have to admit, I haven't read any of the material you mentioned, nor do I plan on doing it. Not because I don't agree with the concepts (I wouldn't know enough about it to have an opinion), but because I have just changed my diet and I plan an sticking with it.

I agree that counting calories is not sustainable for the average person (There are exceptions), but portion control, (e.g. knowing that you can't use half a bottle of oil in one go, a handful of nuts, not the whole bag, not half a bottle of salad dressing on the salad or veg) is an important part of learning to eat well.

I do believe that if you eat 80% veg + protein + good fats, that it would be impossible to gain weight, because the normal person would be stuffed long before they reach an excess of calories.

Edit: I have no idea how to do italics in this forum.

Alf Veedersane · 22-05-2014 1:51pm

diegroblers wrote: »

I agree that counting calories is not sustainable for the average person (There are exceptions), but portion control, (e.g. knowing that you can't use half a bottle of oil in one go, a handful of nuts, not the whole bag, not half a bottle of salad dressing on the salad or veg) is an important part of learning to eat well.

For a lot of people, portion control is knowing that a portion of whatever is within a proper calorie range.

It's not always about weighing food and adding the calories to the nearest one but knowing that a handful of nuts is 100 calories but the whole bag is 500 and taking into account what you have eaten.

Bruno26 · 22-05-2014 1:59pm

diegroblers wrote: »

I agree with some of what you are saying, but is it possible that you have a reaction (not necessarily an allergy, but concerning your metabolic rate) with carbs, but otherwise a fast metabolism? I have to admit, I haven't read any of the material you mentioned, nor do I plan on doing it. Not because I don't agree with the concepts (I wouldn't know enough about it to have an opinion), but because I have just changed my diet and I plan an sticking with it.quote

That could be true if such a thing is possible.

quote I agree that counting calories is not sustainable for the average person (There are exceptions), but portion control, (e.g. knowing that you can't use half a bottle of oil in one go, a handful of nuts, not the whole bag, not half a bottle of salad dressing on the salad or veg) is an important part of learning to eat well.

I do believe that if you eat 80% veg + protein + good fats, that it would be impossible to gain weight, because the normal person would be stuffed long before they reach an excess of calories. quote

I agree.

Eating this way whether you go over daily calories or not, its near impossible to overeat because you feel satiated and don't crave foods like what happens when we consume sugar and grains.

runawaybishop · 22-05-2014 2:08pm

Bruno26 wrote: »

Loyola University registered dietitian Brooke Schantz agrees, noting that people are not likely to have problems overeating nonstarchy vegetables unless they dress them up with extra calories and fat from butter, oil, cream or cheese.

I believe this to be incorrect - this is the evil saturated fat and fear of fat theory that we've been brainwashed with since the 70s. I eat a lot of butter, cream, olive & coconut oil and some cheese. I've lost fat. Fats don't make you fat. Carbs make you fat.

Excess fat will make you fat, as will excess carbs.

Excess calories make you fat. You have not once provided a single link to show this is not the case.

Bruno26 · 22-05-2014 2:15pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

Bruno26 wrote: »

Loyola University registered dietitian Brooke Schantz agrees, noting that people are not likely to have problems overeating nonstarchy vegetables unless they dress them up with extra calories and fat from butter, oil, cream or cheese.

Excess fat will make you fat, as will excess carbs.

Excess calories make you fat. You have not once provided a single link to show this is not the case.

Its near impossible to eat excess fat because you feel satiated eating this way. If you do go against conventional wisdom and eat excess fat you won't get fat.

I have - not links but have stated who I have read- check where they get their info from - check my previous posts -
t
Take a look at studies into the masai and inuit.

runawaybishop · 22-05-2014 2:16pm

Bruno26 wrote: »

Too much green veg can make you fat- that's funny, incorrect and stupid . Now that should be removed!

If I posted idiotic dangerous advice why hasn't it been removed as you say?

I need to provide references but you don't! How do you figure that one out.

Good luck- will go easy on the broccoli tomorrow !

Yes, too much green veg will make you fat. But your original statment was not that, it was that too much meat, veg, cream and nuts etc wouldn't make you fat.

You seem to have this theory that eliminating grain and sugar will make you lose weight even on a calorie surplus, or that eating grains will make you put on weight on a deficient. This is wrong. If it was true then we'd have no cancer sufferers struggling to put on weight, a sandwich is all they would need.

You need to provide links as you are the one that is posting outrageous claims, thats how it works.

runawaybishop · 22-05-2014 2:17pm

Bruno26 wrote: »

Its near impossible to eat excess fat because you feel satiated eating this way. If you do go against conventional wisdom and eat excess fat you won't get fat.

I have - check my previous posts - take a look at studies into the masai and inuit.

Bullsh1t. It is far from impossible to overeat fat, don't be daft. This advice is moronic. Provide links please.

papu · 22-05-2014 2:20pm

Bruno26 wrote: »

Its near impossible to eat excess fat because you feel satiated eating this way. If you do go against conventional wisdom and eat excess fat you won't get fat.

I have - not links but have stated who I have read- check where they get their info from - check my previous posts -
t
Take a look at studies into the masai and inuit.

High Fat diet study on Mice

Sure it's an animal study but the principles are the same.
High Fat diet mice = Fat mice.
Oh and they also had a progressive worsening of insulin resistance.

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SteelyDanJalapeno · 22-05-2014 2:38pm

Bruno26 wrote: »

Loyola University registered dietitian Brooke Schantz agrees, noting that people are not likely to have problems overeating nonstarchy vegetables unless they dress them up with extra calories and fat from butter, oil, cream or cheese.

I believe this to be incorrect - this is the evil saturated fat and fear of fat theory that we've been brainwashed with since the 70s. I eat a lot of butter, cream, olive & coconut oil and some cheese. I've lost fat. Fats don't make you fat. Carbs make you fat.

If I eat 10,000 worth of calories from fat sources daily and zero from carb sources, will I get fat?

Bruno26 · 22-05-2014 2:45pm

TiltedBrain wrote: »

If I eat 10,000 worth of calories from fat sources daily and zero from carb sources, will I get fat?

good luck trying

Bruno26 · 22-05-2014 2:48pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

Bullsh1t. It is far from impossible to overeat fat, don't be daft. This advice is moronic. Provide links please.[/QUOT

Would you consider 70 - 80 % of your macros from fat to be overeating or just calories of fat?

Try it- I believe it impossible to eat too much fat- im not advocating trying to eat too much fat.

Have you tried to overeat fat- I find it impossibble- I'm always too full and satisfied.

Bruno26 · 22-05-2014 2:49pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

Yes, too much green veg will make you fat. But your original statment was not that, it was that too much meat, veg, cream and nuts etc wouldn't make you fat.

You seem to have this theory that eliminating grain and sugar will make you lose weight even on a calorie surplus, or that eating grains will make you put on weight on a deficient. This is wrong. If it was true then we'd have no cancer sufferers struggling to put on weight, a sandwich is all they would need.

You need to provide links as you are the one that is posting outrageous claims, thats how it works.

Get your head around this theory- eating those foods makes you satiated- therefore you dont stuff yourself as you stop when satisfied. It works- try it.

Alf Veedersane · 22-05-2014 2:51pm

Compare and contrast:

Bruno26 wrote: »

Its near impossible to eat excess fat because you feel satiated eating this way. If you do go against conventional wisdom and eat excess fat you won't get fat.

Bruno26 wrote: »

I believe it impossible to eat too much fat- im not advocating trying to eat too much fat.

Have you tried to overeat fat- I find it impossibble- I'm always too full and satisfied.

SteelyDanJalapeno · 22-05-2014 2:52pm

Bruno26 wrote: »

good luck trying

What?

It was a question on your previous statement I quoted in my post, can you not answer it?

Losing weight in 5 weeks.

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