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Legalize Cannabis Ireland

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    #242
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Good post.. I think we only need to look at the Amsterdam experiment to realise legalised cannabis was a failure.

    It was never legalised in Amsterdam.
    Not a good sign as to your knowledge on the subject.
    Now explain to me how the Amsterdam experiment was a failure.




    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Guy a work used to smoke. He would come into work hung over semi stoned. He was an idiot,

    Yes he was an idiot.
    The very same as someone coming into work half drunk.
    Your point?


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    #243
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,144 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    fewtinsoffroth wrote: »
    See this isn't cool though. I'm 18 and have seen so many people and my friends around my age go from real good grades in school to not going to school sitting around smoking pot.

    I know you can do whatever you want with your time but you could end up with a much higher proportion of the young people not going to school and not going to college, isn't that eventually going to be a huge financial problem?

    And it's not even about the money, it's a massive step backward in terms of humanity if the government is gonna legalise pot with the intention of making money on it. And they will of course have to.

    Its not a step backwards to give people personal freedom. If pot is smoked responsibly it harms nobody but the smoker. To suggest legalising it would prevent young people from going to college etc. is frankly ridiculous. Anyone who wants to smoke it is already smoking it, legalising it would not change that it would just mean your friends' money would go to the economy rather than organised crime.
    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Good post.. I think we only need to look at the Amsterdam experiment to realise legalised cannabis was a failure.

    Guy a work used to smoke. He would come into work hung over semi stoned. He was an idiot,, not sure if he was born one or became one.. I have never seen any good effects of long term use of cannabis.

    Idiocy is not a side effect of pot as far as I'm aware and the actions of idiots should not be used as an excuse to restrict the freedom of others.

    It should be decriminalised at least if not legalised, they should follow Portugal's lead in that regard imo.


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    #244
    DjDoody
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭DjDoody


    I think where people are wrong the most is that they think if it is legalised more people will smoke it and it will be easier to get you cant be more wrong.Where I live id say 60 percent of people age 13 to 30 smoke it or smoked it at some point because towns are full of dealers.As for negative effects there is none that affect me so I can see and Iv been smoking i since I was 13 even if it was legalised there would still be underage smoking of it there is no way it wont.Its apart of Irish society now there isnt much chance of changing that


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    #245
    qrrgprgua
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭qrrgprgua


    Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »
    You are not going to convince many people that legalising cannabis is a bad thing by insulting posters with your condescending attitude. Have you got any constructive arguments against cannabis that don't involve highlighting people's grammar mistakes? If not you should ride on out of this thread on your high horse.


    I wasn't insulting the poster..Just stating the obvious.

    Constructive arguments against cannabis:-

    1. The illegality of cannabis deters over 60% of children from using them.
    2. Cannabis is illegal because it is dangerous, not dangerous it is illegal.
    3. As with Alcohol, Cannabis impairs a person from Driving.
    4. It is irresponsible and stupid to make Cannabis freely available to add to the misery and tragic consequences caused by the 2 we already have, alcohol and tobacco.
    5. No going to stop drug dealers... They just move on to the next drug.
    6. In every country where the laws have been relaxed, drug use has increased.
    7. It also makes people depressed or anxious.

    We suffer for years with drunk drivers... lets not start a generation of drugged drivers...


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    #246
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    6. In every country where the laws have been relaxed, drug use has increased.

    This was the choicest piece of horseshit from your slew of made up "facts".

    Let me introduce you to Portugal.....
    Drug warriors often contend that drug use would skyrocket if we were to legalize or decriminalize drugs in the United States. Fortunately, we have a real-world example of the actual effects of ending the violent, expensive War on Drugs and replacing it with a system of treatment for problem users and addicts.

    Ten years ago, Portugal decriminalized all drugs. One decade after this unprecedented experiment, drug abuse is down by half:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/07/05/ten-years-after-decriminalization-drug-abuse-down-by-half-in-portugal/

    I still have outstanding queries from post number 242 that you sidestepped in favor of admonishing DjDoody on his grammar.
    Which is more valuable to you qrrgprgua, the truth or grammar?


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    #247
    Defiler Of The Coffin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,117 ✭✭✭Defiler Of The Coffin


    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Constructive arguments against cannabis:-

    The list you've posted reads like what Grainne Kenny from EURAD would have written. Big on hysterics and small on fact.
    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    1. The illegality of cannabis deters over 60% of children from using them.

    Children should not be using cannabis. No sane proponent of reform disputes this. Who do you believe will be more likely to sell to kids - a licensed retailer or a drug dealer?

    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    2. Cannabis is illegal because it is dangerous, not dangerous it is illegal.

    You would do well to research the history of hemp production and why it was made illegal in the first place.

    Alcohol is a dangerous drug and yet it is legal. How do you explain that?
    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    3. As with Alcohol, Cannabis impairs a person from Driving.

    Thus they shouldn't drive.
    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    4. It is irresponsible and stupid to make Cannabis freely available to add to the misery and tragic consequences caused by the 2 we already have, alcohol and tobacco.

    It is arrogant and stupid on your behalf to assume that cannabis causes 'misery and tragic consequences' in all its users. The mass production of cars in the last century caused untold 'misery and tragic consequences' for people with all the deaths on roads, yet we don't ban cars because of the irresponsibility of the few. So it should be with cannabis.
    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    5. No going to stop drug dealers... They just move on to the next drug.

    That is of no relevance to anything. The whole point of legalising cannabis is to stop criminalising users, not a tool for fighting crime.
    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    6. In every country where the laws have been relaxed, drug use has increased.

    See mikom's post above.
    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    7. It also makes people depressed or anxious.

    Perhaps in some users yes, but then they should take responsibility and not consume a substance that ill-affects them.
    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    We suffer for years with drunk drivers... lets not start a generation of drugged drivers...

    You must have little faith in society if you believe people are just going to start driving while drugged just because it has suddenly been made legal.


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    #248
    yop
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 16,722 Mod ✭✭✭✭yop


    Mod Note - We already have a case of personal abuse which has been dealt with, if anyone else goes down the road of attacking posters or personal abuse then I will ban that poster and also close this thread.


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    #249
    qrrgprgua
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭qrrgprgua


    Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »
    Children should not be using cannabis. No sane proponent of reform disputes this. Who do you believe will be more likely to sell to kids - a licensed retailer or a drug dealer?

    Are you for real? Under-age smoking is fuelled by access to cigarettes. I remember as a kid me and my brother could take a cig or two from my dad without him noticing. We didn't have access to cannabis. Had my father had cannabis at home we would have used it as kids.

    And drug dealers are still going to sell cannabis.. If we have licensed traders who sell for 10 euros you can be sure the dealers will sell for 8. Its what happens with Cigarettes in Ireland today.

    Making Cannabis more widely available just means more people will use it.. More addiction.. More Health issues, Marijuana smoke contains nearly four times as much tar and 50 percent more carcinogens than tobacco. And smoking it is the usual form of using it.


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    #250
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Are you for real? Under-age smoking is fuelled by access to cigarettes. I remember as a kid me and my brother could take a cig or two from my dad without him noticing. We didn't have access to cannabis. Had my father had cannabis at home we would have used it as kids.

    And drug dealers are still going to sell cannabis.. If we have licensed traders who sell for 10 euros you can be sure the dealers will sell for 8. Its what happens with Cigarettes in Ireland today.

    Making Cannabis more widely available just means more people will use it.. More addiction.. More Health issues, Marijuana smoke contains nearly four times as much tar and 50 percent more carcinogens than tobacco. And smoking it is the usual form of using it.
    a healthy mix of fact, fiction and fantasy!!


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    #251
    Kurz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 786 ✭✭✭Kurz


    6:01 news reporting that if you're predisposed to schizophrenia, and an adolescent, cannabis will cause negative effects in terms of schizoprenia when you grow up and become an adult. I will promptly be going through my phone to inform the numerous schizoprenia-predisposed adolescents I know to put down their joints. I better make a pot of coffee, this could take a while.


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    #252
    qrrgprgua
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭qrrgprgua


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    a healthy mix of fact, fiction and fantasy!!


    the fiction and fantasy were the two .. the test fact.


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    #253
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Are you for real? Under-age smoking is fuelled by access to cigarettes. I remember as a kid me and my brother could take a cig or two from my dad without him noticing. We didn't have access to cannabis. Had my father had cannabis at home we would have used it as kids.

    Won't somebody please think of the children...............

    Every cannabis partaker, an otherwise lawabiding citizen must suffer due to poor parenting by some......... that's your reason?

    Next up, a ban on sharp knives in the home.
    Enjoy cutting your steaks with supermacs plastic knives.
    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    And drug dealers are still going to sell cannabis.. If we have licensed traders who sell for 10 euros you can be sure the dealers will sell for 8. Its what happens with Cigarettes in Ireland today.

    Justice resources will be freed up to sort out such such dealers when they are no longer busting Mary down the road for a 5 spot or paddy with a 3 plant personal grow hurting no one.

    Imagine if everybody caught with a packet of 20 cigarettes was hauled up in front of a judge.
    That's what it's currently like with cannabis............. a waste of time and resources.

    And all those justice resources get not a stitch of tax money from cannabis.
    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Making Cannabis more widely available just means more people will use it.. More addiction.. More Health issues,

    PORTUGAL.

    Tired and totally unfounded argument.
    You have been caught out on this lie by more than me in this thread.
    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Marijuana smoke contains nearly four times as much tar and 50 percent more carcinogens than tobacco. And smoking it is the usual form of using it.



    Cannabis smokers generally don't chain smoke, and so they smoke less. Remember cannabis is not physically addictive like tobacco.
    My cousin (not physically addicted) smokes 1 pure joint every other night or so............ My father (physically addicted) smokes 20 cigarettes a day.
    Who is getting more tar and carcinogens?

    Cannabis contains THC.
    THC is a bronchial dilator, which means it opens up your lungs, aiding the clearance of smoke and dirt. Nicotine does just the opposite.


    For the record.......... I vape.


    If you believe in fairytales....
    God said, "Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed which is upon the face of all the earth.…To you it will be for meat." … And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. (Genesis 1:29-31)


    Man said..... "Nah, you can't have that one.


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    #254
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Kurz wrote: »
    6:01 news reporting that if you're predisposed to schizophrenia, and an adolescent, cannabis will cause negative effects in terms of schizoprenia when you grow up and become an adult.

    Just like alcohol, the youth should not be using it until they have matured.
    I could have told them that.


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    #255
    DjDoody
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭DjDoody


    I think people should be a lot more worried about driving than driving while high.Look at the figures of people who have been in crashes because of drunk driving and those while driving high and most of the effects of weed will have worn off within 3 hours infact your almost perfect and when your high yo really dont feel like driving too much effort.


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    #256
    Just Like Heaven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,132 ✭✭✭Just Like Heaven


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    Its not a step backwards to give people personal freedom. If pot is smoked responsibly it harms nobody but the smoker. To suggest legalising it would prevent young people from going to college etc. is frankly ridiculous. Anyone who wants to smoke it is already smoking it, legalising it would not change that it would just mean your friends' money would go to the economy rather than organised crime.

    I'm all for personal freedom, but I don't think the legal availability of drugs to young people who don't fully understand the harm cannabis may cause is such a good idea. And in general, young people do not have the same understanding of the effects as older people.

    You're tackling a different issue to the point I was raising when you talk about pot being smoked responsibly. If we are talking about smoking pot responsibly, You're absolutely right, but I don't think many people aged 15 - 21 smoke pot responsibly.

    Legalising pot will of course not directly prevent young people from going to college. However, studies have shown that cannabis use in teenagers is linked to loss of interest in school/friends.

    Edit And you took me out of context there, I did not say that it was a step backwards to give people personal freedom, I said it was step backwards for the state to sell cannabis with the intention of profiting on it.


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    #257
    globalwarrior
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭globalwarrior


    infact your almost perfect ... for driving????

    REALLY??

    booze stays in the system for X amount of hours
    pot can be traced in the system for up to 3 months!


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    #258
    DjDoody
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭DjDoody


    globalwarrior wrote: »
    infact your almost perfect ... for driving????

    REALLY??

    booze stays in the system for X amount of hours
    pot can be traced in the system for up to 3 months!

    Theres a difference between traced in your system and feeling the effects I have been in multiple cars with the driver stoned and they can drive perfect and after 3 hours your high is well gone.I even saw an episode of one of the cop shows and the guy admitted to smoking pot 4 hours before driving they gave a test for his senses and he was perfect and they let him drive on


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    #259
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,144 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    fewtinsoffroth wrote: »
    I'm all for personal freedom, but I don't think the legal availability of drugs to young people who don't fully understand the harm cannabis may cause is such a good idea. And in general, young people do not have the same understanding of the effects as older people.

    You're tackling a different issue to the point I was raising when you talk about pot being smoked responsibly. If we are talking about smoking pot responsibly, You're absolutely right, but I don't think many people aged 15 - 21 smoke pot responsibly.

    Legalising pot will of course not directly prevent young people from going to college. However, studies have shown that cannabis use in teenagers is linked to loss of interest in school/friends.

    Edit And you took me out of context there, I did not say that it was a step backwards to give people personal freedom, I said it was step backwards for the state to sell cannabis with the intention of profiting on it.

    But nobody is advocating having young people smoke it or having it legal for minors to smoke. I think it would be fair enough for say 18 being the legal age like it is with booze, hell I'd even be ok with 21. The bottom line is people below the legal age should not be smoking it. The truth is if they want to smoke it at those ages though they're doing it already regardless of its legality. I'm pushing 30 now and its easier to get smoke than it ever was but I still had the option of smoking it 15 years ago when I was in secondry school(in the arse end of nowhere I might add :D). I'm not a pot smoker myself, though I have casually dabbled the odd time.

    You are talking about impinging on personal freedom though whether you meant to or not, I don't think a responsible adult who wants to partake for their own enjoyment should be branded a criminal. The state would not be selling the cannabis they would be taxing it and regulating it, I really don't see how that is not preferable to having it fund organised crime and the like.
    globalwarrior wrote: »
    infact your almost perfect ... for driving????

    REALLY??

    booze stays in the system for X amount of hours
    pot can be traced in the system for up to 3 months!

    The effects wear off much much quicker than alcohol though. Totally would not advocate driving directly after smoking though, just as bad as drunk driving imo.


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    #260
    qrrgprgua
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭qrrgprgua


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    The effects wear off much much quicker than alcohol though. Totally would not advocate driving directly after smoking though, just as bad as drunk driving imo.

    Your argument is thin.. If it were ONLY cannabis maybe.. But if Cannabis were legal what is stopping people getting high and drunk.. I see it all the time with stags in Amsterdam (well I see the after effects on the flights home).

    If you want to take it, then take it. But it would be highly irresponsible for society to legalise it.

    I suppose addicts will always view the facts in the rose tint of their addiction


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    #261
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Mickeroo wrote: »
    The effects wear off much much quicker than alcohol though. Totally would not advocate driving directly after smoking though, just as bad as drunk driving imo.

    Your argument is thin.. If it were ONLY cannabis maybe.. But if Cannabis were legal what is stopping people getting high and drunk.. I see it all the time with stags in Amsterdam (well I see the after effects on the flights home).

    If you want to take it, then take it. But it would be highly irresponsible for society to legalise it.

    I suppose addicts will always view the facts in the rose tint of their addiction
    What do you define as high? I would say drowsy would be more accurate.


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    #262
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,144 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Your argument is thin.. If it were ONLY cannabis maybe.. But if Cannabis were legal what is stopping people getting high and drunk.. I see it all the time with stags in Amsterdam (well I see the after effects on the flights home).

    If you want to take it, then take it. But it would be highly irresponsible for society to legalise it.

    I suppose addicts will always view the facts in the rose tint of their addiction

    I don't smoke pot, have done in the past but I'm far from an addict and I don't appreciate the sly dig.

    I'm not sure where you're coming from saying my argument is thin, I said driving under the influence of marijuana is not a good idea, I would share the same opinion for any drug, do you not agree? I don't see how legalising any drug would make it ok to drive while you are using it :confused:

    There's nothing wrong with smoking and being drunk at the same time provided someone knows their limits, there's nothing stopping people doing it now either. Being high, drunk or both at the same time is all relative and comes down to the responsibility of the user. The after effects you see on the flights home are probably hangovers from the booze, there's no major after effects from pot that I know of except a hankering for a bag of tayto.


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    #263
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Your argument is thin.. If it were ONLY cannabis maybe.. But if Cannabis were legal what is stopping people getting high and drunk

    what is stopping it in the current climate.....

    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    .. I see it all the time with stags in Amsterdam (well I see the after effects on the flights home).

    Saliva test and breathalyzer on your person at all times have you?

    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    I suppose addicts will always view the facts in the rose tint of their addiction

    Same could be said of those deep into their religion....

    globalwarrior wrote: »
    infact your almost perfect ... for driving????

    REALLY??

    booze stays in the system for X amount of hours
    pot can be traced in the system for up to 3 months!

    More misinformation.
    Traces of inactive cannabis can be found in your fat cells, yes.
    Inactive....... as in it does not affect your motor skills.
    This thread is full of bull**** being trotted out as fact............. and to think that you globalwarrior have just graduated with a Psych degree majoring in addiction and are about to embark on a masters.
    You have even thanked the anti posts that are full of lies.

    The mind boggles.
    globalwarrior wrote: »
    PS Sdiff


    Just graduated with a Psych degree majoring in addiction and about to embark on a masters.


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    #264
    qrrgprgua
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭qrrgprgua


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    What do you define as high? I would say drowsy would be more accurate.




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    #265
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkuTZa_NPgE


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    #266
    paddyandy
    Site Banned Posts: 2,037 ✭✭✭paddyandy


    Talbot street Dublin will go nationwide if they legalise cannabis .(Have you seen the walking dead there recently ?)......and a myriad of new problems of accidents in the home and workplace ...Where's the sanity ? Head Shops making a repeat effort here i suspect .
    This is in the tailwinds of the treaty campaign and they're not missing the opportunity .However for sick people some consideration might be feasible.


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    #267
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    paddyandy wrote: »
    Talbot street Dublin will go nationwide if they legalise cannabis .

    Heroin addicts are going to have a hard time getting cannabis into their syringes...........

    #scaremongering
    paddyandy wrote: »
    Where's the sanity

    Now you said it.


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    #268
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,144 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    paddyandy wrote: »
    Talbot street Dublin will go nationwide if they legalise cannabis .(Have you seen the walking dead there recently ?)......and a myriad of new problems of accidents in the home and workplace ...Where's the sanity ? Head Shops making a repeat effort here i suspect .
    This is in the tailwinds of the treaty campaign and they're not missing the opportunity .

    Accidents in the home/workplace? Pretty sure it would be illegal to smoke pot at work and most pot smokers do it in the privacy of their own homes as it is without causing a nuclear explosion or anything. Drink is considerably more incapacitating than marijuana yet a lot of people still seem to be able to lead perfectly normal lives while consuming it regularly. Where's the sanity indeed, it sure as hell doesn't reside in any of the arguments against legalisation put forward here as far as I can see.

    Edit: Just saw your edit regarding medicinal legalisation, I agree with you there, whatever people's reservations about full on legalisation surely most would agree medicinal marijuana should be allowed?


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    #269
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,791 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    DjDoody wrote: »
    I have been in multiple cars with the driver stoned and they can drive perfect...
    It's depressing as hell that people actually believe this. The only consolation is that people used to say the same thing about driving "perfectly" while drunk.


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    #270
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,144 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    It's depressing as hell that people actually believe this. The only consolation is that people used to say the same thing about driving "perfectly" while drunk.

    I would think people who believe that to be in the minority, I certainly hope they are anyway. If anyone thinks its ok to drive while consuming marijuana then they need to wake up. Its rubbish like that that gives responsible users a bad name.


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    #271
    qrrgprgua
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭qrrgprgua


    Interesting reserach on the harmful effects

    Dr William Oldfield, from St Mary's Hospital and one of the authors of the article, said: "Cannabis and nicotine cigarettes have a different mode of inhalation. The puff taken by cannabis smokers is two-thirds larger, they inhale a third more and hold down the smoke four times longer.

    "All these factors could contribute to illnesses of the heart and respiratory system, particularly as the chemicals in cannabis smoke are retained in the body to a much higher degree."

    He said the cannabis used today - especially that bought in the Netherlands - was up to 40 times stronger than that used by Flower Power hippies in the 1960s.


    Health service has enough problems without adding more.


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