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Burglar cut off artist's fingers...

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    #92
    bradlente
    Registered Users Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭bradlente


    Horrible story,I know its just repeating the same attitude as others have here but how the **** did he only get 4 years for that 1st offence?10-15 at the very least for me.


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    #93
    JerryHandbag
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,543 ✭✭✭JerryHandbag


    I'm not sure which is more revolting, what he did to that woman or the sentence he got.

    This ****ing country.


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    #94
    TheUsual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,288 ✭✭✭TheUsual


    bradlente wrote: »
    Horrible story,I know its just repeating the same attitude as others have here but how the **** did he only get 4 years for that 1st offence?10-15 at the very least for me.

    Horrible story and crime.
    But the Judge is limited by the fact it's a first offence, and 10-15 years is for murder which is at the extreme end of the sclae.
    I did Jury Duty and they have to be reasonable in terms of what they hand out for a sentence, like a Paedophile gets 7 years and the Herald and The Star newspapers are up in arms and want 30 years or whatever, the Judge can't hand out those kind of sentences, or he/she will be over-ruled by the High Court when the criminal and their lawyers ask for a retrial.


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    #95
    charlemont
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    How long will this ****er actually serve in prison before he is free to re-offend? The key should be thrown away on scum like this and life imprisonment on a chain gang should be the sentence but let's rehabilitate him instead. :mad:

    Twelve years, If he was already on remand before the trial the sentence was possibly backdated to include remand time.


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    #96
    Ste_D
    Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭Ste_D


    Dotrel wrote: »
    Why stop there. I'd cut off his balls too.

    Maybe preventing this dirtbag from breeding is not a bad idea at all


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    #97
    charlemont
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    TheUsual wrote: »
    Horrible story and crime.
    But the Judge is limited by the fact it's a first offence, and 10-15 years is for murder which is at the extreme end of the sclae.
    I did Jury Duty and they have to be reasonable in terms of what they hand out for a sentence, like a Paedophile gets 7 years and the Herald and The Star newspapers are up in arms and want 30 years or whatever, the Judge can't hand out those kind of sentences, or he/she will be over-ruled by the High Court when the criminal and their lawyers ask for a retrial.

    Life is actually the only sentence permitted for murder in Ireland.
    I think your mixing it up with Manslaughter.


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    #98
    TheUsual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,288 ✭✭✭TheUsual


    charlemont wrote: »
    Life is actually the only sentence permitted for murder in Ireland.
    I think your mixing it up with Manslaughter.

    Life is never life here, as far as I know there is nobody here in prison for life in Ireland.
    I know in Britain that the Yorkshire ripper was refused release 2 years ago and will die in prison. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkshire_Ripper

    You get time off for good behaviour as well here so murder would be typically 12 to 15 years. I could be wrong.

    Manslaughter means you did not intend to kill the person or it was self-defence so a lower sentence would be applied there.


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    #99
    Captain Darling
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,542 ✭✭✭Captain Darling


    Armed robbery? The bastard!


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    #100
    jonsnow
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭jonsnow


    TheUsual wrote: »
    Life is never life here, as far as I know there is nobody here in prison for life in Ireland.
    I know in Britain that the Yorkshire ripper was refused release 2 years ago and will die in prison. .

    Malcolm mcarthur probably will as well.He has been in prison for 30 years.


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    #101
    raah!
    Registered Users Posts: 2,629 ✭✭✭raah!


    This is too much. Wasn't there a thread a few days ago here too where a guy attacked a ticket warden with a hammer and got another 4 seconds in prison because he was unwell.

    The people handing out these sentences need to be punished.

    And this good behaviour thing really need to be looked at, just because there are no easy victims in prison to attack doesn't mean a person has learned the error of their ways.


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    #102
    Mr. Rager
    Registered Users Posts: 1,958 ✭✭✭Mr. Rager


    God this world sometimes :(


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    #103
    smokedeels
    Registered Users Posts: 2,883 ✭✭✭smokedeels


    Why interfere and ruins somebodies life like this, he had addiction problems.... so what! how is this girl to blame?

    How are people like this being bred and why are we failing to protect the victims, I'm not educated to give answers to those questions but I hope those who are step-up because this sort of thing is very upsetting to read.


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    #104
    constantg
    Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭constantg


    I heard about this earlier. I heard what this f******g animal did to her. I heard about how he had another conviction for stabbing a woman 10 times a few years ago. I couldn't believe he was out again so soon after nearly killing someone the last time! Then the judge weighed in with hefty words and I thought 'Thank Christ, he's going to get 30 years now, lock him up and throw away the key!'

    And then he gets 16 years.....


    ....am I missing something here? 5 of those will be suspended and he'll be out in under a decade to mutilate someone else. The only law in this country is the law you carry out yourself.


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    #105
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,750 ✭✭✭SeanW


    RichieC wrote: »
    Ah yes, the liberals fault!
    Yes it is. Anyone who is soft on crime bears partial responsibility for all the madness caused by repeat offenders.

    I'm with the Iranians on this one - cut HIS fingers off (and a few other bits too :eek:) then lock him up and throw away the key!


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    #106
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    SeanW wrote: »

    cut HIS fingers off (and a few other bits too :eek:) then lock him up and throw away the key!

    To be fair, the key would fuck all use to him without his fingers.


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    #107
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    SeanW wrote: »
    Yes it is. Anyone who is soft on crime bears partial responsibility for all the madness caused by repeat offenders.

    I'm with the Iranians on this one - cut HIS fingers off (and a few other bits too :eek:) then lock him up and throw away the key!

    Being liberal does not automatically equal "soft on crime." Some of us are for prison reform, rehabilitative measures and proportionate sentences (i.e. not getting less for stabbing a woman ten times than you would for possessing cannabis over a certain value.)


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    #108
    Plautus
    Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭Plautus


    SeanW wrote: »
    Yes it is. Anyone who is soft on crime bears partial responsibility for all the madness caused by repeat offenders.

    I'm with the Iranians on this one - cut HIS fingers off (and a few other bits too :eek:) then lock him up and throw away the key!

    Funny then how serious crime has been on the way down over the last number of years. Oooooh the Peee-Ceee brigade! *flash of lightning*

    The death penalty and/or cruel and unusual punishment in other jurisdictions doesn't have a deterrent effect. It's also a nice 'bleeding heart' concept that senseless violence ought not to beget more senseless violence. Punishment is a part of a multi-piece puzzle: rehabilitation, deterrence up to a point, and incarceration for the purposes of public safety.

    That's why no civilised nation will ever, ever, cut someone's testicles off. Sorry to disappoint.

    And again:
    The people handing out these sentences need to be punished.

    For what, acting within the law and doing their job knowing what the backlogged case-load in Court of Criminal Appeal is like? Advocate for legislative change if you want to, but the idea of locking up judges is one of the stupidest responses this case has generated amongst the denizens of AH.


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    #109
    howamidifferent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭howamidifferent


    Plautus wrote: »

    That's why no civilised nation, will ever, ever, cut someone's testicles off. Sorry to disappoint.

    Mores the pity. Civilised sentences should be reserved for civilised crimes.
    Animals should be sent to an abbatoir (excuse my spelling). :mad:


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    #110
    Napper Hawkins
    Registered Users Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭Napper Hawkins


    Millicent wrote: »
    Being liberal does not automatically equal "soft on crime." Some of us are for prison reform, rehabilitative measures and proportionate sentences (i.e. not getting less for stabbing a woman ten times than you would for possessing cannabis over a certain value.)


    That's grand, but there's a lot of folks here who would rather see him set on fire and I'm with them.

    **** him, I hope he gets his someday because he's a ****ing animal who deserves to be put down before he (most definitely) attacks and ruins someone elses life.


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    #111
    Plautus
    Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭Plautus


    What's the difficulty with the idea that 'eye for an eye' is barbaric? Why do you think 'cruel and unusual punishment' was something which the United States proscribed in the 18th century? We wouldn't mete out rape in return for rape; the very idea is abhorrent.

    Guilty verdicts and incarceration are reversible in the case of unlawful or wrongful conviction. Mutilation and execution ... not so much.

    Also, it's nice that everyone is reassuring themselves that the perpetrator is an animal or a monster from dimension X but that's **** all use to the rest of us who would like to engage with the reality of human crime and reducing it.


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    #112
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    This vicious savage us cleary a danger to society and should be imprisoned for the remainder of his life.


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    #113
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Napper Hawkins wrote: »
    That's grand, but there's a lot of folks here who would rather see him set on fire and I'm with them.

    **** him, I hope he gets his someday because he's a ****ing animal who deserves to be put down before he (most definitely) attacks and ruins someone elses life.

    He's a fucking animal, don't get me wrong for a second, but knee-jerk revenge tactics aren't going to stem the tide of serial offenders. Effective and sensible attitudes to punishment and rehabilitation will.

    More judges with a bit of cop on, now that'd be an idea. Why the fuck the original judge thought four years was proportionate for the attempted murder of two people is beyond me.


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    #114
    Napper Hawkins
    Registered Users Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭Napper Hawkins


    Millicent wrote: »
    He's a fucking animal, don't get me wrong for a second, but knee-jerk revenge tactics aren't going to stem the tide of serial offenders. Effective and sensible attitudes to punishment and rehabilitation will.

    More judges with a bit of cop on, now that'd be an idea. Why the fuck the original judge thought four years was proportionate for the attempted murder of two people is beyond me.

    I didn't say he should be set on fire, I said I'd be hard pressed to take the grin off my face if that actually happened to him.

    I think he should be locked up forever. But he won't be. I hope he doesn't get the chance to hurt someone else. But he will. Watch this space.


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    #115
    howamidifferent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭howamidifferent


    Millicent wrote: »
    He's a fucking animal, don't get me wrong for a second, but knee-jerk revenge tactics aren't going to stem the tide of serial offenders. Effective and sensible attitudes to punishment and rehabilitation will.

    More judges with a bit of cop on, now that'd be an idea. Why the fuck the original judge thought four years was proportionate for the attempted murder of two people is beyond me.

    Maybe that judge thought/assumed that every other citizen had 24 hour armed security just like themselves and so wouldnt need any further protection? :(


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    #116
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Napper Hawkins wrote: »
    I didn't say he should be set on fire, I said I'd be hard pressed to take the grin off my face if that actually happened to him.

    I think he should be locked up forever. But he won't be. I hope he doesn't get the chance to hurt someone else. But he will. Watch this space.

    Eh...
    That's grand, but there's a lot of folks here who would rather see him set on fire and I'm with them.
    sounds suspiciously like you'd be there with the torch. :pac:

    It is horrible to think he will re-offend. And I'm almost sure he will. Hopefully, a psychological test can determine if he needs treatment for mental health issues, and if not, that he can be rehabilitated in jail. I doubt either is a real option though.


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    #117
    TheUsual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,288 ✭✭✭TheUsual


    Plautus wrote: »
    Also, it's nice that everyone is reassuring themselves that the perpetrator is an animal or a monster from dimension X but that's **** all use to the rest of us who would like to engage with the reality of human crime and reducing it.


    Agreed.
    Imagine if he was in need of mental health help. All these "hang them high" types would be embarrased, or they should be.


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    #118
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    howamidifferent wrote: »
    Maybe that judge thought/assumed that every other citizen had 24 hour armed security just like themselves and so wouldnt need any further protection? :(

    What I sincerely don't get is why he wasn't charged with attempted murder in any of the three attacks. It's baffling that criminals seem to get charged with softer crimes rather than charged for the crime they actually committed.

    Does anyone know what the reasoning is behind instances like these?


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    #119
    Napper Hawkins
    Registered Users Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭Napper Hawkins


    Millicent wrote: »
    Eh... sounds suspiciously like you'd be there with the torch. :pac:

    It is horrible to think he will re-offend. And I'm almost sure he will. Hopefully, a psychological test can determine if he needs treatment for mental health issues, and if not, that he can be rehabilitated in jail. I doubt either is a real option though.

    Nope, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't try to prevent it either though.


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    #120
    Plautus
    Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭Plautus


    There are very few if any judges in the country which have 24-hour armed security :/

    Judges are bound by the jurisdiction of their court and statute law in handing down sentences - they cannot exceed prescribed maximum limits of incarceration.

    They are further hemmed in by the precedents set in the Court of Criminal Appeal in relation to sentences for similar crimes. If they do not observe those, it's a guaranteed appeal to that very over-burdened court. Lead-in times on cases such as these getting to hearing is about a year and a half to 2 years to begin with. Not making the situation any worse is an imperative.

    Mandatory minimum sentencing then also brings its own problems of not allowing for mitigation. We see that in the United States where multi-million fraudsters serve less time than crack-cocaine users.

    Sentencing is difficult, but no judge is a completely free agent. It's disingenuous to suggest otherwise. And you know, the solution here isn't to head out with the pitchforks, tar and feathers to the nearest court where a judge is sitting. We have a parliament, you might like to get in touch with your TD.
    Does anyone know what the reasoning is behind instances like these?

    The DPP taking the case to court at suit of the state wants a high conviction rate. He isn't guided by sentencing outcomes per se. Therefore, whatever he can get to stick that will pass the burden of proof he'll go with. A case of hitting for the low-hanging fruit.

    Sometimes, the evidence just isn't good enough in some cases. Specific type of crimes might require a very high standard of proof. In murder, it's the mens rea - the guilty mind and intention - which is difficult to show.


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    #121
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    TheUsual wrote: »
    Agreed.
    Imagine if he was in need of mental health help. All these "hang them high" types would be embarresed, or they should be.

    I don't know that they would. It's easier to dehumanise people like Kenny than to assess the influences that create offenders like them.

    I said he was an animal and I stick by it. However, the thing that people criticise us "liberal do-gooders" for is trying to understand why crime like this happens and the motivations behind it. The mistake is in thinking that the do-gooders are trying to excuse the behaviour; they're not. They (in most cases) are seeking to prevent such crimes from occurring again.


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