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Adams: Government has to go

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    #122
    Winty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭Winty


    dlofnep wrote: »
    You do have a right to speak - I never contended that. But when you preach complete and utter lies,

    I understand that you support the SF and well thats cool - but I did not lie, others like me see SF as a gang of thugs who in Derry and all over the north stole money from catholic business under the mask of protection. So to return to the OP Mr Adams has no business telling the Irish Gov how to run the shop.
    SF have a right as they have a number of TD's but IMO Mr Adams needs to keep his ideas to himself.

    Anyway its dinner time and I need food, I can see us chatting in Politics again very soon.

    Good Night God Bless :D


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    #123
    walrusgumble
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,062 ✭✭✭walrusgumble


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Actually, they don't. I know many people on a personal level who have left Sinn Féin, and have no intentions of ever coming back. It's a make or break moment for them - and they stick to it. There is no jumping forward and back.

    I think in this aspect Winty might have being referring to those who were/are associated/formerly associated/ sympathethic to the military wing of Republicanism as oppose to the Sinn Féin Party who have allowed/tolerated/supported Sinn Féin taking the front march.


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    #124
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Sorry, but I can't take the opinions of someone who refuses to acknowledge the legitimacy of the government seriously. I also can't accept the views of someone who won't condemn the killing of a Garda or the supporting of men that were "birdwatching" in Columbia.

    It would be more in his line to go and represent his constituents in parliament, rather than coming out with statements about us. This is a Sinn Fein desperate attempt to become relevant in the republic. They can go jump. Terrorists.

    well i knew sweeping generalisations has turned into an art form over on AH, didnt think it made its way to politics as well!!

    would you afford the same label to FF, FG and labour considering their beginnings were steeped in violence but have since moved on? where the acts of their members would have deemed to have been terrorism?

    or are you just out on a lovely sunday (s)troll? ;)


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    #125
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Winty wrote: »
    SF have a right as they have a number of TD's but IMO Mr Adams needs to keep his ideas to himself.

    No he doesn't.


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    #126
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Winty wrote: »
    You being a Shinner nothing I write will do

    Entirely wrong. You made a very specific claim. It's therefore quite easy for you to answer it.
    They could not in the eyes of the yanks be seen dealing with terrorists so the Ulster Bank was allowed to be done over so the boys could go and live in Spain

    Now all you have to do is to provide a source for your claim that PIRA members used money from the Ulster bank robbery to move to spain, with the tacit approval of the British and Irish Governments. You fairly specific about it being all part of some agreement.


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    #127
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    He's the leader of a party which operate in the 26 counties, why is there even one poster saying he shouldn't be commenting about it?


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    #128
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    He's the leader of a party which operate in the 26 counties, why is there even one poster saying he shouldn't be commenting about it?

    ...because it's Sinn Fein.


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    #129
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Winty wrote: »
    I was born and raised in Derry, had a great view in the 80's
    A great view... from which side?

    =-=

    Mr Adams has done a great job up north, but things are different down here. And thus many, including myself, don't think he'll do great down here. Heck, I think he'll f**k up the country even worse, should he get into power.

    It's true that the government has to go, but the sad fact is, who will take FF's place? SF? I don't think so. Heck, they usually go get a small percent of votes. FG? They had their chance, and they blew it. As bad as they did, FF got voted in again, and until another political party starts making believable promises, I can't see that happening.


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    #130
    maynooth_rules
    Registered Users Posts: 1,502 ✭✭✭maynooth_rules


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    He's the leader of a party which operate in the 26 counties, why is there even one poster saying he shouldn't be commenting about it?

    As leader should he not be putting himself forward for election to let the people have their say on him?? Having said that i think he is perfectly entitled to say what he has and it is what so many of us are thinking


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    #131
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    Exile 1798 wrote: »
    Gerry Adams is the Leader of this all-Ireland party, I would think it very strange if he didn't comment on issues affecting the Republic.

    I don't doubt for a moment that there are plenty of petty or silly reasons why you think the leadership of Sinn Féin should make no comment on the Fianna Fáil government's record, but as I said I'm quite doubtful you could come up with any good ones.
    Well let me spell out the particular problem I have with this. First, let’s be clear that this has nothing do with anybody’s rights. Of course Adams has the right to comment on any aspect of this state’s affairs, just as anybody else does. But virtually no politician with a mandate in one state would comment on the internal matters of another unless they were deliberately trying to cause a provocation. It’s a diplomatic no no.

    I don’t think Adams was trying to be provocative. Like their 26 county speak, it is part of the whole Sinn Fein “well we say we recognise the legitimacy of the Southern state, but we don’t really”. Adams sees no diplomatic faux pas with commenting on the affairs of another state because he doesn’t really accept that it is another state. His Ireland is a 32 county Ireland. Which is perfectly fine and acceptable as a political aspiration. But it is not fine to assert it as your current political view. At least it is not if you claim to recognise the republic of Ireland and not, IMO, if you voted for the GFA.

    Incidentally, I am not so sure I even agree with what Adams says. Certainly FF bear considerable responsibility for the depth, if not the fact, of the current crisis. But I do think that they are making a reasonable attempt to handle it. I don’t think an alternative government (e.g. a FG dominated one) would do things substantially differently. And there is a real possibility that a general election could give us a Dail where it would not be possible to form a stable government. I’m as sick of FF in power as most people. But alas, we could have a worse (if more popular) government.


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    #132
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 16,978 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    maynooth_rules wrote: »
    As leader should he not be putting himself forward for election to let the people have their say on him?? Having said that i think he is perfectly entitled to say what he has and it is what so many of us are thinking

    Plenty of Irish people have voted for him over the decades


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    #133
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    maynooth_rules wrote: »
    As leader should he not be putting himself forward for election to let the people have their say on him??

    He puts himself forward in West Belfast, which he and many others see as more than just a geographical part of Ireland.
    Having said that i think he is perfectly entitled to say what he has and it is what so many of us are thinking

    Agree with that. Just can't understand those on this thread arguing otherwise


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    #134
    walrusgumble
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,062 ✭✭✭walrusgumble


    maynooth_rules wrote: »
    As leader should he not be putting himself forward for election to let the people have their say on him?? Having said that i think he is perfectly entitled to say what he has and it is what so many of us are thinking

    Where in the South? ye good point who would take him though considering our apparent dislike for all things Northern? despite his popularity is he willing to do the parish pump politics and the nitty gritty overseeing that footpaths etc are in check (ye I know that local government work, but it never stops a TD smiley madly in front of the papers when something happens) Is he above that? (No doubt his work does not distract him from local work in his own constituency of West Belfast).

    Whats the craic with MLA's and local councillors up there. Is it like down here when someone says they won't vote for so and so because they failed to eg get a medical card for little johnny, failed to put in a good word at the local council/post office/gardaí/ civil service job or failed to get something else for them vs the right man / women for national politics?

    THat would be interesting, but then he might lose his control in the North were he is really needed.

    Now to return to others who complain about his policy in Westminister. The people who vote for Sinn Féin at Westminster Elections are under no illusion as to what their position is regarding taking their seats. The substantial rise in votes clearly suggests that a good per centage in the northern ireland population agrees with them (we can't all assume its about up the ra etc). Anyway, what developments are a group (any group from Northern Ireland btw) going to make sitting in a 600+ House of Parliament in an atmosphere that really have not given a damn about Scotland or Wales, never mind Northern Ireland for the past while. Look where Conservatives got their votes, in England. Does Middle England really want a Scottish or Welsh Prime Minister? It never harmed Sinn Féins efforts in speaking to the PM before and with the Assembley, were the real bread and butter is, its not like they are the people are really losing out are they?

    considering the attendance and voting records some or many of our glorious TD's in the Dáil (does Bertie even bother going in now a days?), its laughable with no real idea that the real work goes on outside the shouting Chambers of the House of Commons. It not like they are completely absent from London.


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    #135
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    aDeener wrote: »
    well i knew sweeping generalisations has turned into an art form over on AH, didnt think it made its way to politics as well!!

    would you afford the same label to FF, FG and labour considering their beginnings were steeped in violence but have since moved on? where the acts of their members would have deemed to have been terrorism?

    or are you just out on a lovely sunday (s)troll? ;)

    Yes the birth of the mainstream political parties in the republic is steeped in blood, but that was 90 years ago! The difference with SF is that there are a sizeable number of activists that were/are involved in activities which subvert the state.

    As yet there is no SF supporter that can give a reason why the SF leadership won't condemn the Murder of Garda Gerry McCabe? Dlofnep maybe you can answer that directly instead of dodging the question.


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    #136
    Executive Steve
    Registered Users Posts: 3,373 ✭✭✭Executive Steve


    PARKHEAD67 wrote: »
    levies on wages?On top of our already reduced wages while the cost of EVERYTHING goes up? The best 'occupation' in modern day Ireland is an unemployed drug dealer.Get the drug money, stroll down to the social office and claim whats 'rightfully yours' as a 'citizen'.I shake my head sometimes and wonder why I get up and do 12 hour shifts. Dont worry though. Supercowan and his chronies have it all under control.GANGSTERS. Wheres me brown envelope?



    A little OT here, but selling drugs is an absolutely terrible job.

    You have zero means of legitimately enforcing supply chain / purchasing contracts, zero protection from the law when you have a legitimate business grievance, the hours are dreadful, you get sentenced to more jail time than a rapist would be if you are caught with enough of whatever commodity it is you trade in to make a wage off, your customers by and large are quite happy to rip you off and your best customers expect you to give away your product for free. Even if you manage to somehow keep your head down and handle your business efficiently and with a minimum of hassle you still have to contend with your competition, who tend to be very unpleasant people with a bare minimum of professional scruples. Sourcing proper merchandise is extraordinarily hard as well.

    The only reason people bother doing it is because the government have driven the price of the product through the roof by making it potentially injurious to stock and supply it, which makes it a temptingly lucrative short term option for those with no other options.

    All for a salary that frankly isn't all that much more than you would expect from working in a middle management role in a call centre.


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    #137
    m@cc@
    Registered Users Posts: 4,526 ✭✭✭m@cc@


    Winty wrote: »
    Money my good man Money

    20 Million stolen with permission from the Ulster Bank in Belfast paved the way from the arms to be put away

    Not to be pedantic but it was 26million stolen from the Northern Bank. The majority of which became worthless within weeks of the robbery.


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    #138
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    What ever happened to the idea of Adams becoming President of Ireland ;)


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    #139
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    m@cc@ wrote: »
    Not to be pedantic but it was 26million stolen from the Northern Bank. The majority of which became worthless within weeks of the robbery.

    ...stop pickin holes in the plot.....


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    #140
    Exile 1798
    Registered Users Posts: 709 ✭✭✭Exile 1798


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Yes the birth of the mainstream political parties in the republic is steeped in blood, but that was 90 years ago! The difference with SF is that there are a sizeable number of activists that were/are involved in activities which subvert the state.

    Eamon de Valera was involved in activities which subverted the State, yet he was President until 1973. Fianna Fáil had many such TD's and Councilors well into the 70s.

    Fine Gael for their part choose to associate themselves with famous uber terrorist Michael Collins despite not having a direct connection.

    While SF have no choice but to be associated with the IRA, FG on the other hand had and have the choice not to be yet they do everything in their power to connect themselves with past violence.

    Can the anti-Shinner brigade in Irish politics please give us a rough estimation of how long everyone is going to have to put up with their conceited moralising? Just an rough estimate please, is it going to be 10, 20 or 30 years that we'll be hearing you drone on for?


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    #141
    paddyland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 932 ✭✭✭paddyland


    Exile 1798 wrote: »
    Can the anti-Shinner brigade in Irish politics please give us a rough estimation of how long everyone is going to have to put up with their conceited moralising? Just an rough estimate please, is it going to be 10, 20 or 30 years that we'll be hearing you drone on for?

    Well when the generation that gives tea and sympathy to Garda murderers is dead and gone, that might be a start...


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    #142
    Exile 1798
    Registered Users Posts: 709 ✭✭✭Exile 1798


    Off course we all know you'd be attack SF for cowardice and dishonesty if they had completely disowned the killers of McCabe.

    Damn them if they do, damn them if they don't. Few people are fooled by this.


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    #143
    Winty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭Winty


    the_syco wrote: »
    A great view... from which side?

    From the side of right against wrong. Many Catholic business people were put to the wall around Derry City due to members of a political party putting them under pressure to support the cause.

    By the By

    Even people in SF do not see Mr Adams as a good financial rolemodel

    "There was also family concern over an alleged attempt by Sinn Féin to insert a clause in the new Trust which would have made Gerry Adams a financial beneficiary. “It came in the draft version of the new trust documents drawn up in 1994 though Adams said that it should read the president of Sinn Féin of the day. We didn’t agree to either”.

    http://sluggerotoole.com/2009/12/29/former-hunger-stiker-calls-on-adams-to-resign-from-sands-trust/


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    #144
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Winty wrote: »
    From the (.....)-trust/

    I'm always suspicious of people who throw allegation after allegation whilst the questions raised by their first have yet to be answered.


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    #145
    Winty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭Winty


    Nodin wrote: »
    I'm always suspicious of people who throw allegation after allegation whilst the questions raised by their first have yet to be answered.

    You must work in Sinn Fein Public Relations.

    Get a question you dont like so you divert attention, Classic Sinn Fein. Well Done.

    So the Bobby Sands trust are incorrect in their mistrust of Mr. Adams?


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    #146
    SlabMurphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 462 ✭✭SlabMurphy


    Exile 1798 wrote: »
    Eamon de Valera was involved in activities which subverted the State, yet he was President until 1973. Fianna Fáil had many such TD's and Councilors well into the 70s.

    Fine Gael for their part choose to associate themselves with famous uber terrorist Michael Collins despite not having a direct connection.

    While SF have no choice but to be associated with the IRA, FG on the other hand had and have the choice not to be yet they do everything in their power to connect themselves with past violence.

    Can the anti-Shinner brigade in Irish politics please give us a rough estimation of how long everyone is going to have to put up with their conceited moralising? Just an rough estimate please, is it going to be 10, 20 or 30 years that we'll be hearing you drone on for?
    Well it's not just FG or Ff who associate with former ' terrorists '. The Labour Party associates itself with James Connolly and the Irish Citizens army. De Rossa, Pat Rabbit, Eoghan Harris etc were invovled with SF the Workers Party/Offical IRA, Kathleen Lynch's husband was tried for murder of a Provisional SF member in Cork in the 70's.

    And it's not just nationalist parties. The DUP were invovled in several loyalist movements such as Ulster Resistance, Ulster Protestant Volunteers etc. And the Ulster Unionists aren't squeaky clean either. They were one of the founders of the UVF in the earlier part of the last century. In the mid 70's David Trimble, Rev Martin Smyth and co. were also invovled in Ulster Vanguard paramilitary's and were quite happy to secret discussions notorious loyalists killers such as Billy Wright.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Vanguard

    What's that old saying about the pot calling the kettle black ?


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    #147
    guinnessdrinker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭guinnessdrinker


    SlabMurphy wrote: »
    And it's not just nationalist parties. The DUP were invovled in several loyalist movements such as Ulster Resistance, Ulster Protestant Volunteers etc. And the Ulster Unionists aren't squeaky clean either. They were one of the founders of the UVF in the earlier part of the last century. In the mid 70's David Trimble, Rev Martin Smyth and co. were also invovled in Ulster Vanguard paramilitary's and were quite happy to secret discussions notorious loyalists killers such as Billy Wright.

    Shhhh, nobody likes bringing any of this up!


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    #148
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    SlabMurphy wrote: »
    Well it's not just FG or Ff who associate with former ' terrorists '. The Labour Party associates itself with James Connolly and the Irish Citizens army. De Rossa, Pat Rabbit, Eoghan Harris etc were invovled with SF the Workers Party/Offical IRA, Kathleen Lynch's husband was tried for murder of a Provisional SF member in Cork in the 70's.

    And it's not just nationalist parties. The DUP were invovled in several loyalist movements such as Ulster Resistance, Ulster Protestant Volunteers etc. And the Ulster Unionists aren't squeaky clean either. They were one of the founders of the UVF in the earlier part of the last century. In the mid 70's David Trimble, Rev Martin Smyth and co. were also invovled in Ulster Vanguard paramilitary's and were quite happy to secret discussions notorious loyalists killers such as Billy Wright.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Vanguard

    What's that old saying about the pot calling the kettle black ?

    Dont forget to mention Republicans cooperated with Loyalists when it suited them .


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    #149
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    anymore wrote: »
    Dont forget to mention Republicans cooperated with Loyalists when it suited them .

    Examples of such co-operation?


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    #150
    SlabMurphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 462 ✭✭SlabMurphy


    anymore wrote: »
    Dont forget to mention Republicans cooperated with Loyalists when it suited them .
    AS far as I remember Eoghna Harris and De Roosa's old Stickie friends were accused of it by Vincent Brown in Magill magazine. As regards the Provos, if you look up the list of loyalist dead and the organisation accredited to killing them, the Provos can proudly lay claim to that honour of the most kills :)


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    #151
    Winty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭Winty


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Examples of such co-operation?

    Do you read the Derry Journal?

    http://www.derryjournal.com/journal/-Report-that-drug-dealers.3686421.jp

    "It was also claimed that the alleged links between the Real IRA and the loyalist gangs had been sanctioned by the leadership of the dissident republican organisation."


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