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Sexual assault...but sure he's a nice lad..Mod Warning Post 275

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Comments

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    herya wrote: »
    I honestly can't think of anything she could have done to deserve anything close such a treatment. Even if (and please note I'm not suggesting anything!) she was a well known local slapper who had pleasured many a lad behind said dumpster it wouldn't give him any right to drag her there unconscious when he felt like it.
    I agree 1000%. Lets say a woman is really putting out there to the degree that she gets constant attention and a "rep" from this, this may explain why some moron thinks he has some fcuked up right to assault her, it does not condone in any way the morons actions.

    Take a less serious crime scenario. If I was regularly walking drunk through a "rough" area with wads of cash hanging out of my pockets and on occasion gave away said wads to random strangers, if someone robs me they're still a moronic thief and not the norm. End of.

    Yes my behaviour may very well be unwise given morons exist, but said morons should still be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Plus I could just as easily be robbed not carrying wads of cash in that scenario, just like "good girls" are raped and assaulted as much if not more.

    And if my behaviour is unwise, the law and society should protect the unwise. We've all been as daft as a brush in our lives. How I'm not dead from being thick is more luck than judgement TBH.

    I dont care how drunk a woman or how much of a "slapper":rolleyes: she is, non consensual assault in such a case and the like is simply no excuse. If I see an unlocked door on a house, it does not follow that I burgle it. Its pretty damned black and white really.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭asdasd


    The US has something called a 1982 [i am open to correction on the exact term] which allows for a case to be heard somewhere else, to avoid corrupted or undue influence on the judge and the jury.

    Since he was found guilty by people who would be mostly from Tralee and surrounding area ( mostly Kerry people, in other words) I dont see the point of this comment.

    REgardless of the people from Listowel, just up the road culchies voted to convict. So, um, lets stop the culchie bashing shall we.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭cyning


    asdasd wrote: »
    So, um, lets stop the culchie bashing shall we.
    Yes please.... its a few people. Not all. Its about a girl who was assaulted. And the assaulter has been offered more support. Its very simple: its wrong. There is no two ways about it. Culchie bashing distracts from the victim don't you think???


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,658 ✭✭✭✭The Sweeper


    I think the biggest difference between rural and urban areas is that the sense of community is lesser in most urban areas, so the chances of 50 people lining up to shake your hand in court simply because you're a good bloke from their area is higher than it would be in a city case.

    However, there is a flip side to this - rural communities are very tightly knit, and who knows the influence of Dan Foley's mother, or the past histories that have gone on between either him and the girl he has been convicted of attacking; or their families, or friends, or neighbours. It's that situation - that potential influence, or past history, or sense of community, that has prompted this bizarre public display.

    But more than whether or not it is a rural or urban situation, the question is why the hell did officers of the court allow 50 people commiserate with the already convicted perpetrator in front of his victim? Why were they permitted to approach him? Did no one have the sense to call a halt to it and request that the parties move outside and suggest they commiserate with him at a later date?

    As for the persistent defence of their actions in the media - someone's already nailed that one I think: they've dug themselves a hole, and all they can do in it is continue to dig.

    Me, I hope the sides collapse and they bury themselves.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    But more than whether or not it is a rural or urban situation, the question is why the hell did officers of the court allow 50 people commiserate with the already convicted perpetrator in front of his victim? Why were they permitted to approach him? Did no one have the sense to call a halt to it and request that the parties move outside and suggest they commiserate with him at a later date?
    That's the bit like you I just can't fathom.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭asdasd


    The judge could have held them all in contempt. He was a tough enough judge too, by the sounds of it.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,698 Mod ✭✭✭✭Silverfish


    asdasd wrote: »
    The judge could have held them all in contempt. He was a tough enough judge too, by the sounds of it.

    He wasn't aware it had happened.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Silverfish wrote: »
    He wasn't aware it had happened.

    True, apparently it was before the judge entered the chamber. Don't know if the Guards could do anything really.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,698 Mod ✭✭✭✭Silverfish


    A group of 50 people, mainly men and said to be neighbours and friends, trooped into the courtroom and marched up to the accused, in single file. Each man shook his hand – some hugged him warmly, with tears in their eyes. It was witnessed by the 24-year-old victim who cut a lonely figure in the front seat of the public gallery. Dressed in black, she sat with a female garda, a counsellor from the Kerry Rape Crisis Centre and a friend.

    All the well-wishers then seated themselves in the public gallery. Judge Donagh McDonagh, who had not seen what happened, emerged from his chambers a few minutes later.

    From one of the articles.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭LostinBlanch


    A couple of points I heard on newstalk today.
    1. If this was 30 or 40 years ago the victim would have been put in a magdalen laundry instead of getting her attacker convicted
    2. Re the "show of support" for the convict. I think it was Mannix Flynn who said that if that had happened in front of the judge they would all have been up for contempt of court. Don't forget he was already convicted for two weeks at this stage. Yesterday was the sentencing hearing.
    3. The Bishop of Kerry disassociated himself and his diocese with the actions of the acting parish priest. Apparently he's a retired priest from a diocese in the US and is only standing in for the local priest who is in hospital. The bishop also apologised to the victim and hoped that the priests actions don't mean that other victims don't get justice.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Silverfish wrote: »
    He wasn't aware it had happened.
    True but IMHO it was a serious breakdown in simple security and common bloody sense. Sadly that shocks me even less than I thought it would.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,742 ✭✭✭Klingon Hamlet


    Why did they take a character reference at all? *SNIP* It was sexual assault*. I don't care if he was popular or seemed nice. He did what he did and should be locked up for life. Hope he gets a proper hiding in there. Maybe he'll get all the "action" he wanted, except he'll be on the receiving end.

    This priest, saying the sentence was too harsh...words don't describe how I feel when I hear a priest trying to protect a rapist. Says alot about their attitudes towards rapists in and out of the clergy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭enry


    Why did they take a character reference at all? SNIP I don't care if he was popular or seemed nice. He did what he did and should be locked up for life. Hope he gets a proper hiding in there. Maybe he'll get all the "action" he wanted, except he'll be on the receiving end.

    This priest, saying the sentence was too harsh...words don't describe how I feel when I hear a priest trying to protect a rapist. Says alot about their attitudes towards rapists in and out of the clergy.

    i agree with what your saying but he has not been convicted of rape.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Why did they take a character reference at all? The man is a sick rapist. I don't care if he was popular or seemed nice. He did what he did and should be locked up for life.

    Fair point, does it matter what family he comes from, what connections they have? He did what he did, not rape btw though he did say he had sex with her at one stage, but he may have retracted that.

    Sounds very like the 50-80's here to me!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,966 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    A significant % of the Profits from the Listowel races should be donated to the Rape Crisis Centre.

    To my eyes, this is one of the only ways for the community, as a whole, to recover from their current mess. (And lets face it, while a sex offender, a priest & 50 people* don't necessarily make up a community, they can utterly destroy one)


    *on another note, that sounds like the start of a joke!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Really wish this was a bad Kerryman joke.

    How are the family given such a carte blanche to make insinuations on TV?

    There is something very unnerving about his gf


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,966 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    His brother is on Newstalk now. How/Why are they getting so much air time?

    "There was no clinical evidence". Eh, CCTV?!? Eye witness report from the Garda?!?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭Fink Goddie


    I think he's a sh1t no doubt about it and deserves to go to jail, but I'm so uncomfortable with this thing of wishing rape on men in prison as some kind of fair punishment. Rape & sexual assault aren't funny.

    F*ck him, he deserves everything he gets!!!


  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 16,186 ✭✭✭✭Maple


    Fink Goddie, advocating ANY sort of sexual assault is just not on whether or not you perceive it to be justified.

    Please refrain from making any more comments like this.

    Maple.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,966 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    He deserves a criminal record.
    He deserves 7 years with 2 suspended.
    He deserves to be on the sex offender register for the rest of his life.

    He does not deserve to be sexually assaulted - no one does.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭Fink Goddie


    Zulu wrote: »
    He deserves a criminal record.
    He deserves 7 years with 2 suspended.
    He deserves to be on the sex offender register for the rest of his life.

    He does not deserve to be sexually assaulted - no one does.

    In your opinion!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭ironingbored


    I listened to the interview with his brother this morning on Newstalk. Although he was more measured and cautious than the despicable priest, one thing he slipped in - and which went unnoticed or uncommented upon - left me in no doubt as to the disingenuous behaviour of his supporters. He said early on in the interview "the so-called victim". Unfortunately Ms. Byrne failed to pick up on this.

    How the prison officers and gardai in court allowed people to approach and make physical contact with a convicted prisoner is beyond belief and an investigation should be carried out. What if someone wished to slip him a weapon?
    The behaviour of his family, his friends and the contemptable priest are disgraceful. There is one thing being dignified and supporting one's kin in a diffucult moment; it's another thing to intimidate a victim in court and condone despicable behaviour. I just sincerely hope that Mr. Foley serves EVERY day of his 5 years.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭ironingbored


    In your opinion!

    NO!

    In the opinion and good judgement of a jury of his peers and a court of law! :mad:


  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 16,186 ✭✭✭✭Maple


    Ok guys, two things.

    1. He was convicted of sexual assault, not rape. Please stop referring to him as a rapist.

    2. Please stop advocating sexual assault as a means of punishment.

    Bans will be handed out to anyone ignoring this warning.

    Maple.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Posted as well in the local thread, but maybe those of us from all over the country who are disgusted by the 50 should organise to travel down to Listowel and hold a rally of national support for sexual assault victims? I'm male, but I know I'd travel.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭BaZmO*


    maple wrote: »
    Ok guys, two things.

    1. He was convicted of sexual assault, not rape. Please stop referring to him as a rapist.
    It's funny, the fact that so many people keep referring to it as rape, obviously not bothering to find out the true facts, goes some way to explain the reason why the 50 people went up to him in the dock to show their support.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭Fink Goddie


    BaZmO* wrote: »
    goes some way to explain the reason why the 50 people went up to him in the dock to show their support.

    How?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭BaZmO*


    How?
    Does it really need to be explained to you?

    It shows that people are only too willing to jump to conclusions (or actions) without truly knowing all the facts, or in this case, not bothering to find them out.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    What is the legal distinction between rape and sexual assault?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭Fink Goddie


    BaZmO* wrote: »
    Does it really need to be explained to you?

    It shows that people are only too willing to jump to conclusions (or actions) without truly knowing all the facts, or in this case, not bothering to find them out.

    The jury already decided on the facts, and they got all of them!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,966 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    In your opinion!
    No, in the opinion of the citizens of the Republic of Ireland, as represented by the judicary system.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    What is the legal distinction between rape and sexual assault?

    That was clarified already in this thread, here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,966 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    What is the legal distinction between rape and sexual assault?
    Already posted. Please read the thread.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭Fink Goddie


    Zulu wrote: »
    No, in the opinion of the citizens of the Republic of Ireland, as represented by the judicary system.

    How many people actually agree with the judiciary system, its a joke. Life in prison is approx 12 years for example.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭BaZmO*


    What is the legal distinction between rape and sexual assault?
    Penentration

    The jury already decided on the facts, and they got all of them!
    I know. I think you're still missing the point of my originally post, and my subsequent explanation.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 327 ✭✭F.A.


    Disturbing, really disturbing. What I find even more worrying is the prospect that the poor girl will almost certainly suffer even more when media-coverage and public outcry subside. Bullies commonly make their victim suffer even worse once they've been named and shamed (unless proper action is taken to handle this). A year or two down the line, the public will hardly be aware of the victim anymore, and I believe that's when the real "witch-hunt" will start...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    F.A. wrote: »
    Disturbing, really disturbing. What I find even more worrying is the prospect that the poor girl will almost certainly suffer even more when media-coverage and public outcry subside. Bullies commonly make their victim suffer even worse once they've been named and shamed (unless proper action is taken to handle this). A year or two down the line, the public will hardly be aware of the victim anymore, and I believe that's when the real "witch-hunt" will start...

    I would worry about this too - what his peers will do to her after this.

    Its like a Tom Murphy play.


  • Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭Trankton


    The worst thing about this whole affair is, due to the actions of these people it will discourage others from coming forward and pursuing justice for fear of being vilified and ostracised by their own community.

    I can only hope that anyone in this situation will look more to the courage and determination of the victim as well as the fact that justice has been done in the end and the perpetrator receiving his just deserts, instead of being discouraged and intimidated by the actions of these obviously deluded fools.

    My sincerest congratulations and thanks go out to the victim for showing the courage and resolve to go through with this in the face of adversity and possibly saving other women from this predator.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,966 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    How many people actually agree with the judiciary system, its a joke. Life in prison is approx 12 years for example.
    In this case, I agree with the judicary system. Job well done tbh.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,057 ✭✭✭MissFlitworth


    I would worry about this too - what his peers will do to her after this.

    Its like a Tom Murphy play.

    There's a few facebook pages of his friends knocking about with comments about how 'she'd better hide'. Serious scummy element :( That poor woman, as well as dealing with being sexually assaulted she's got so much horrible crap in her future to deal with.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭eden_my_ass


    Its seems all this drama isn't benefiting Mr Foley much either, his name has now made it to the wider world courtesy of the Beeb, so much for paying your price to society, keeping the head down and getting on with life without everybody knowing your past! Aw well :)

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8420097.stm


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5 djspanna


    http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/profile.php?v=wall&id=1721119433

    Interestingly, he also joined Chelsea Headhunters hooligan group and some of the stuff on his site should be investigated by the police, we are starting to see the true colours of his "suuport network" which every second further supports the guilty verdict


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,897 ✭✭✭Kimia


    Wow, it's like all the scumbags in Kerry are rallying around this pig. Horrifying stuff. It makes me feel sad that these people actually exist - what has Ireland come to when scumbags like this actually think this is acceptable behaviour.

    "one hell of a nice guy........BUT DONT CROSS MY ****IN PATH!"

    WOW


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭ironingbored


    The Gardai, the DPP, the 10 men and 2 women of the jury and the judge are all wrong and our little Danny is innocent. What an absolute disgrace!

    I love the way the priest, his girlfriend and his brother all spoke about the "alleged incident" before being corrected.

    As for the utter scum from the town defending him. Speechless.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 236 ✭✭PopUp


    Its like a Tom Murphy play.

    Yeah, or as others have said, John B Keane.

    How's this for a weird coincidence - the real-life murderer Keane based Bull McCabe on was named Dan Foley.
    Keane based the story on the 1959 murder of Moss Moore, a bachelor farmer living in Reamore, County Kerry. Dan Foley, a neighbour with whom Moore had a long-running dispute, was suspected of the murder, but the charges were denied by Foley's family.[1]


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    djspanna wrote: »
    Interestingly, he also joined Chelsea Headhunters hooligan group and some of the stuff on his site should be investigated by the police, we are starting to see the true colours of his "suuport network" which every second further supports the guilty verdict

    He was giving out about the Free Staters yesterday!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    Beruthiel wrote: »
    I've just dropped Fr Sean Sheehy an e mail to let him know my thoughts on his involvement.

    I was wondering where you found his email address? Was it on a local website or something? I wouldn't mind sending him one myself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,551 ✭✭✭panda100


    Why did they take a character reference at all? *SNIP* It was sexual assault*. I don't care if he was popular or seemed nice.
    .

    Because the law has to be consistent. As I said before, every sexual assualt case is different.In this case there was lots of evidence indicating an assault had taken place. Usually there is no or little evidence so character references are important in establishing the general tempermant of the accused.
    Zulu wrote: »
    A significant % of the Profits from the Listowel races should be donated to the Rape Crisis Centre.

    To my eyes, this is one of the only ways for the community, as a whole, to recover from their current mess. (And lets face it, while a sex offender, a priest & 50 people* don't necessarily make up a community, they can utterly destroy one)


    *on another note, that sounds like the start of a joke!

    As I said yesterday, I am from near Listowel and have many relatives from the area. You cannot tar everyone with the same brush. Listowel is a wonderful town rich in culture and heritage with some amazing people living in the area. The towns people there are enormously welcoming friendly bunch and the vast majority of the town completely dissociate and disown the actions of those 50 people.

    I really do not like the way peoples reactions are going in this case. If you think this sort of behavior is isolated to Listowel then you are very misguided.
    You only have to read AH every now and again to see what people view of rape and rape victims are. The general consensus is that women ask for it because of what they wear,how much they drink and that usually they make it up to get attention.
    The focus here should not be on vilifying the good towns people of Listowel but foccusing on why sexual assault is so commonplace in our society anyway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    I've sent a mail to the parish registering my disgust in Fr Sheehy. It's also given me the impetus to begin the process of officially leaving the catholic church through Count Me Out.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 495 ✭✭The Insider


    I probably get slated for saying this but this case doesn't seem as black and white as some people are making it out to be.

    [URL] http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/how-birthday-hug-turned-into-an-unforgivable-act-1980576.html [/URL]
    Defence counsel Patrick Whym said two of the woman's friends had given evidence that she had not been drunk when they were last speaking to her after 2am, and that she had left the club arm in arm with the accused man. Mr Whym said the woman had huge gaps in her story.

    Two of her freinds say she wasn't drunk.
    The former bouncer insisted on buying her a drink and she told the court that once she had taken a sip from the Black Russian she had felt unwell.

    So now a sip from a Black Russian makes her pass out??


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