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Work Related Suicide

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  • 22-03-2014 2:11am
    #1
    delthedriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭


    It was reported in The Guardian & Irish Times this week that Orange the French Telecoms Giant are being investigated following a fresh wave of work related suicides.

    Absolutely shocking!


    Could this be happening in Irish workplaces?


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    #2
    Bipolar Joe
    Registered Users Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭Bipolar Joe


    No, it's happening in France. You literally just typed that yourself.


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    #3
    solomafioso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭solomafioso


    http://www.aware.ie/

    http://www.pieta.ie/


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    #4
    delthedriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭delthedriver


    Bipolar Joe wrote: »
    No, it's happening in France. You literally just typed that yourself.

    Apologies Joe,

    You can google and find the relevant links from Irish Times and The Guardian for yourself. I would post the links if I could!

    Why ever do you think I simply typed this ?

    Why would such an issue be exclusive to France ?


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    #5
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,068 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Crippling depression and anxiety isn't exclusive to any one nation or industry.


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    #6
    petrolcan
    Registered Users Posts: 898 ✭✭✭petrolcan


    delthedriver wrote: »
    Apologies Joe,

    You can google and find the relevant links from Irish Times and The Guardian for yourself. I would post the links if I could!

    Post the links.
    Why ever do you think I simply typed this ?

    Because you didn't post any links.


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    #7
    whirlpool
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,574 ✭✭✭whirlpool


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Crippling depression and anxiety isn't exclusive to any one nation or industry.

    Not exclusive, no, but potentially more prevalent.


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    #8
    delthedriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭delthedriver


    petrolcan wrote: »
    Post the links.



    Because you didn't post any links.


    www.irishtimes.com/business/series of staff suicides at French telecoms giant investigated.

    Hope above link works !

    If link does not work I will repost it tomorrow. Apologies


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    #9
    delthedriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭delthedriver


    petrolcan wrote: »
    Post the links.



    Because you didn't post any links.

    Ok , I have tried to add link to Irish Times.

    Please have a read and see for yourself.

    Kindest wishes


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    #10
    Panda_Turtle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 304 ✭✭Panda_Turtle


    I thought the French were supposed to have a decent work life balance


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    #11
    delthedriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭delthedriver


    Please find full link below.

    Apologies for any confusion



    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/series-of-staff-suicides-at-french-telecoms-giant-investigated-1.1732080


    Worth a read.


    Do similar issues exist in Irish workplaces?


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    #12
    delthedriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭delthedriver


    Panda_Turtle wrote: »
    I thought the French were supposed to have a decent work life balance


    Very true.

    On the surface Irish workers enjoy a good work life balance also.

    The Orange Telecoms situation is frightening! It is not the first time either!

    Suicide is on the increase in Ireland, how many needless deaths are work related?

    Perhaps Irish employers are better than their French Counterparts?


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    #13
    shopaholic01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,916 ✭✭✭shopaholic01


    Le Parisien published an internal company document from 2006 in which Lombard allegedly told directors he was determined to cut 22,000 jobs, adding “I’ll do it in one way or the other, by the window or by the door.”
    Mr Lombard denied that his methods were the cause of the deaths. He remains under investigation. An official report by the works inspectorate in 2010 blamed a climate of “management harassment” it said had “psychologically weakened staff and attacked their physical and mental health”.
    Since then, Patrick Ackermann, delegate for the SUD union and member of the observatory, said the situation had eased, but last month the group issued a warning to management of a “dramatic worsening” of morale within the company.
    It sounds like a concentration camp. Are any Irish or Irish based companies like this?


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    #14
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,982 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    France has a male suicide rate of 22 per 100,000. Orange employees 160,000.

    They still need around 10 to beat the average.


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    #15
    delthedriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭delthedriver


    shopaholic01 wrote: »
    It sounds like a concentration camp. Are any Irish or Irish based companies like this?

    You have raised a very good question.

    My guess Irish employers or companies based in Ireland cannot be too different .

    The important thing to be aware of is there are laws to protect both the psychological health as well as physical health of Employees. There are specialist Law firms who concentrate on Employment Law.

    Your health is your wealth.


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    #16
    CelticRambler
    Registered Users Posts: 6,736 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    Panda_Turtle wrote: »
    I thought the French were supposed to have a decent work life balance

    A popular misconception. Things are pretty grim in France at the moment for people of working age. Youth unemployment is almost as bad as any of the other Mediterranean countries, the overall U/E rate is rising steadily month after month, long-term U/E is up too. 85% of all jobs created last year were in a new self-employment structure, no companies are hiring, so anyone with a job knows that if they lose theirs, there's precious little chance of getting another.

    There are two huge cultural differences between France and most of the rest of Europe when it comes to the workplace. The first is the gulf between "the boss" and "the workers". I know it's common for employees in Ireland or the UK to moan about the boss, but most of the time they appreciate the fact that the business owner probably puts in twice as many hours as they do, and they don't begrudge him/her a decent lifestyle earned after years of hard graft. In France, there's a constant tension that wears away at people.

    Secondly, businesses in France have traditionally run as well-defined, very specific trades or professions. This extends into many other areas of life, but the internet and multi-discipline business practices coming in from other European countries are wreaking havoc with the mental health of people who've lived in "little boxes" for decades. They literally cannot cope with being asked to do two "different" jobs as part of their duties.


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    #17
    Dilly.
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭Dilly.


    shopaholic01 wrote: »
    It sounds like a concentration camp. Are any Irish or Irish based companies like this?

    Worked in a crèche like this....of all fcuking industries for management to bully their staff!! Stupid b of a supervisor lives very close to me now aswell, there's times I feel like knocking on her door an telling her exactly what she put myself and my colleagues through! Unfortunately the place is probably the same now, bullying is very hard to prove!

    Edited to add: great post Hellrazer, I would definitely echo your advice for anyone in that situation to either take action (keep a diary of everything that happens, times, dates, witnesses etc.) or else just get out of their as soon as possible! I tried fighting things but not one other member of staff would back me up for fear of losing their job, it was so frustrating I decided to just leave! Best decision I ever made! I didn't realise just how much that environment was effecting me until I left!


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    #18
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    what about the man who owns the business

    waking up at four in the morning worrying over the bank and the revenue

    you never see this as an employee

    you get laid off you can walk in and get 188 a week

    what does he get?


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    #19
    delthedriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭delthedriver


    Dilly. wrote: »
    Worked in a crèche like this....of all fcuking industries for management to bully their staff!! Stupid b of a supervisor lives very close to me now aswell, there's times I feel like knocking on her door an telling her exactly what she put myself and my colleagues through! Unfortunately the place is probably the same now, bullying is very hard to prove!

    Edited to add: great post Hellrazer, I would definitely echo your advice for anyone in that situation to either take action (keep a diary of everything that happens, times, dates, witnesses etc.) or else just get out of their as soon as possible! I tried fighting things but not one other member of staff would back me up for fear of losing their job, it was so frustrating I decided to just leave! Best decision I ever made! I didn't realise just how much that environment was effecting me until I left!

    Well done on getting out of that environment. Life is for living , not putting up with that stress every day!


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    #20
    delthedriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭delthedriver


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    what about the man who owns the business

    waking up at four in the morning worrying over the bank and the revenue

    you never see this as an employee

    you get laid off you can walk in and get 188 a week

    what does he get?

    Interesting comments.

    However does the employer have the right to bully his employee leading to a physical and psychological breakdown or ultimately death by suicide?


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    #21
    SamforMayo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭SamforMayo


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    what about the man who owns the business

    waking up at four in the morning worrying over the bank and the revenue

    you never see this as an employee

    you get laid off you can walk in and get 188 a week

    what does he get?

    I have huge sympathy for people who are in business and struggling but that does not give them the right to make other peoples life a misery. They should work with their employees not against them. How would being a bully help?


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    #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    what about the man who owns the business

    waking up at four in the morning worrying over the bank and the revenue

    you never see this as an employee

    you get laid off you can walk in and get 188 a week

    what does he get?
    Maybe so, but that doesn’t give anybody the right to bully staff, if he treats his staff like shít then they'll probably work poorly as well.


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    #23
    ilovebiology
    Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭ilovebiology


    delthedriver wrote: »
    It was reported in The Guardian & Irish Times this week that Orange the French Telecoms Giant are being investigated following a fresh wave of work related suicides.

    Absolutely shocking!


    Could this be happening in Irish workplaces?

    Oh yes it is happening in irish workplaces, and is a HUGE contribution to suicide in Ireland. Links to follow.


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    #24
    pharmaton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭pharmaton


    Stavros Murphy wrote: »
    Sadly, there's still others working there. As a shy, retiring violet, I'm lucky that I really never have had to endure bullying at work of any kind. I insist on politeness, regardless. Insist is actually too mild a word. Be polite. It's free, it's nice, and it's nice to be nice. I'm nice to the people who work for me, I'm nice to the people who hire us to do work. If there's roaring and shouting and bullying, somthing has gone badly wrong. If someone roared, shouted or bullied in my direction, we'd be done. Full stop. Be nice, it's nice to be nice. Work shouldn't be a misery, it should be work.
    Polite has little to do with it, an ego maniacal boss or co-worker isn't going to care about your personal demeanor when they're on a mission.

    I'm lucky in that I've never had to work for a bad boss, I don't remember one who made life difficult for me personally (there was one not so great but they were done for embezzlement at a later stage) and usually had a good relationship with them, a few even became personal friends. On the flip side, I've worked with some difficult people but I think once you have an understanding of the politics of the game of bullying at work it becomes much easier to overcome it.

    I'd recommend counselling to those experiencing bullying at work, it's vital to have a safe space to communicate and express your emotions, and it will get you to a place where you can make it better.


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    #25
    ilovebiology
    Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭ilovebiology


    This is my story I shared here a while ago -

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056959994


    It turns out I am not the only one. Its a little old but a survey shows the extent of this very serious silent epidemic that is a huge contribution to suicides in Ireland, and is and has increased over the past few years.

    http://www.headline.ie/news/headline/2008/oct/21/workplace-bullying-link-25-suicides/

    http://www.buseco.monash.edu.au/mgt/research/working-papers/2008/wp10-08.pdf


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    #26
    Stavros Murphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭Stavros Murphy


    pharmaton wrote: »
    Polite has little to do with it, an ego maniacal boss or co-worker isn't going to care about your personal demeanor when they're on a mission.

    I'm lucky in that I've never had to work for a bad boss, I don't remember one who made life difficult for me personally (there was one not so great but they were done for embezzlement at a later stage) and usually had a good relationship with them, a few even became personal friends. On the flip side, I've worked with some difficult people but I think once you have an understanding of the politics of the game of bullying at work it becomes much easier to overcome it.

    I'd recommend counselling to those experiencing bullying at work, it's vital to have a safe space to communicate and express your emotions, and it will get you to a place where you can make it better.
    Then I'd cheerfully punch their adams apple out the back of their neck. :) Hence, most people are as polite to me as I am to them.


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    #27
    pharmaton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭pharmaton


    Stavros Murphy wrote: »
    Then I'd cheerfully punch their adams apple out the back of their neck. :) Hence, most people are as polite to me as I am to them.

    You have to accept the fact that, without becoming a criminal, most people are not going to choose this option. If it were that easy, there wouldn't be any bad bosses to talk about. They'd all have had their heads pumped full of lead. So you might as well relax and save yourself the time and energy and choose to do something constructive about it without resorting to their level of threatening behaviour.


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    #28
    Stavros Murphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭Stavros Murphy


    pharmaton wrote: »
    You have to accept the fact that, without becoming a criminal, most people are not going to choose this option. If it were that easy, there wouldn't be any bad bosses to talk about. They'd all have had their heads pumped full of lead. So you might as well relax and save yourself the time and energy and choose to do something constructive about it without resorting to their level of threatening behaviour.

    I'm the sweetest guy going tbh, I like to be a gentleman for as long as is possible. There just has to be that little slivver of ice that makes people mind their manners. Bullies get away with it because they get away with it. If you just simply refuse to let them get away with it, they stop. I'm not advocating hitting them, just pull them up verbally if that's your style. But if people keep on taking guff "because that's the way Mr Mike the manager goes on and sure isn't he under pressure these days.." then Mr Mike will continue being a douche nozzle and making peoples lives a misery. Well, you ain't making my life a misery old fruit, that's for sure. Bear in mind the title of this thread. We're not discussing someone having a one-off bit of banter here.


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    #29
    ilovebiology
    Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭ilovebiology


    Stavros Murphy wrote: »
    I'm the sweetest guy going tbh, I like to be a gentleman for as long as is possible. There just has to be that little slivver of ice that makes people mind their manners. Bullies get away with it because they get away with it. If you just simply refuse to let them get away with it, they stop. I'm not advocating hitting them, just pull them up verbally if that's your style. But if people keep on taking guff "because that's the way Mr Mike the manager goes on and sure isn't he under pressure these days.." then Mr Mike will continue being a douche nozzle and making peoples lives a misery. Well, you ain't making my life a misery old fruit, that's for sure.

    Or take them to the High Court! :pac:


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    #30
    Stavros Murphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭Stavros Murphy


    ilovebiology wrote: »
    Or take them to the High Court! :pac:

    Equally satisfying I reckon! :)


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    #31
    ilovebiology
    Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭ilovebiology


    Stavros Murphy wrote: »
    Equally satisfying I reckon! :)

    Wonderfully satisfying, it was sweet beating a brazen vindictive nasty employer. I could use other words to describe them, but I would probably be banned!!!


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