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Is Eircom sabotaging SKY or is SKY just useless?

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  • 03-04-2013 12:47pm
    #1
    keno-daytrader
    Registered Users Posts: 858 ✭✭✭


    I changed like many other people did from Eircom to Sky. When I was with Eircom I never experienced slow speeds in the evening in 5 years. Now switched to Sky and going from 14mb in the morning and day to 1mb in the evening, cant even watch a youtube video.

    My exchange is NGB enabled. I was led to believe that this is the same exact line and equipment just that Sky were just reselling it. Clearly something has changed.

    I have gone to the Sky forums for ROI and there is clearly a major problem with speeds in Ireland slowing down in the evenings and Sky have been clearly ignoring the problem, asking over and over again to run this test and connect to ethernet, bla bla bla not addressing the evening speed drops at all.

    Did Eircom put me on an over contended adsl port because Im with Sky now, or is it a traffic shaping issue all down to Sky throttling connections?

    I'd like peoples thoughts as to who is responsible for this degradation in service, Sky or Eircom?

    ☀️ 6.72kWp ⚡2.52kWp south, ⚡4.20kWp west



«134567

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    #2
    bealtine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭bealtine


    [QUOTE=keno-daytrader;83961150

    I'd like peoples thoughts as to who is responsible for this degradation in service, Sky or Eircom?[/QUOTE]


    Well it seems unlikely that eircom are deliberately sabotaging Sky (possible but seems unlikely to me), it's more likely that Sky simply don't have the infrastructure to handle the demand hence the slowdowns at peak times


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    #3
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,790 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    The responsibility would be on whomever you took the contract out with, Read the terms and conditions and expected line speeds on the contract and contact their support teams if you are unhappy.

    Even if it was eircom moving lines as you stated, its up to sky to deal with it and uphold your contract. (and theirs)


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    #4
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,271 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    Most likely Sky; Eircom would route your connection to their gateway for going out on the internet and most likely they simply don't have enough capacity (i.e. more people signed up for higher speeds then expected) or the people who moved were the heavy users cause contention issues (i.e. instead of being 5% hammering the line it's now 50% heavy users limiting the average for everyone) who wanted unlimited bandwith.


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    #5
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    With Eircom each person has their own connection to the internet. With Sky you share your connection with 48 other people. So with Eircom when you pay for 24mb that's just for yourself, when your with sky and you pay for 24mb you are sharing that 24mb with 48 of your neighbours.


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    #6
    whadafook
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭whadafook


    Sky do not use Eircom Wholesale in the majority of exchanges, they use BT

    Even at that as a poster above pointed out, Sky may not have as much capacity on their own interconnects as Eircon.

    Even if you are with a service provider who is reselling Eircom services you may be on a contended service even in an NGB area


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    #7
    cork_south
    Registered Users Posts: 707 ✭✭✭cork_south


    keno-daytrader wrote: »
    I changed like many other people did from Eircom to Sky. When I was with Eircom I never experienced slow speeds in the evening in 5 years. Now switched to Sky and going from 14mb in the morning and day to 1mb in the evening, cant even watch a youtube video.

    I have exactly the same issue. I get about half a meg download after 7PM.
    The case is with Sky T2 but I'm not confident anything can be done.
    If this continues surely Sky are in breach of contract?


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    #8
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    I dont believe Keno is on a big exchange with BT gear. The most likely reason is that SKY have taken on too many customers and that the Bitstream handover is severely congested at peak times ( 6-9pm) . You can leave SKY if you raise a formal complaint and give them 10 days to fix their congestion or else release you from contract for non performance.

    Keno can check his exchange by asking someone using another carrier to test speeds at the same time. I am inclined not to blame eircom for this one. :)


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    #9
    Dcully
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 14,692 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dcully


    Sky are telling me my line cannot go past 7mb yet eircom called to my place and offered me up to 24 mb ever since our exchange has been upgraded.
    I have rang almost daily since i was made aware of the upgrade ,first they said eircom need to pass on info to them before i see a speed increase.
    When i rang eircom they said sky are aware of the exchange upgrade.
    Then im told by sky support [different people each time]my line cant exceed 7mb, then others [different people] tell me my line can go to 16-18 mb , ffs who do i believe?
    Roll onto this day last week when i thought i struck gold and managed to speak to someone in sky support who was going to try to help me.
    He said i can see you should have 16 mb atleast,i will escalate this and you should see new speeds by monday,roll on monday and he rings promising i will see the change by Tuesday and he would ring me wednesday morning [today] first thing, no sign by 1 pm i rang ,spoke to yet another person,she chased up the guy i was dealing with and his update for me was my line cannot exceed 7mb, yet he confirmed last week i could get 16-18 mb after he ran a speed test.

    This is all total BS, there are people in my area on sky getting 18 mb with sky and everyone else since the exchange upgrade [which ive been hassling eircom about for countless years]
    Eircom,Magnet,Vodafone all confirmed over the phone when they ran a test i can get upto 24mb with a realistic speed of about 18 mb,yet mysteriously sky are telling me differently, but some within sky support say i can but mysteriously change their minds?

    I am sick to the teeth with sky, im at the end of my tether with them at this stage.
    When i asked about if i was to cancel what fee with i incur €200-€250 i was told :(

    This is just shocking stuff from sky imo.
    As far as i can see they have stuck me into some corner of the exchange probably on ancient gear [i dont know the full technical terms] where i cannpt get more than 7mb but yet everyone else can,im literally only 500 m from the exchange.
    Countless calls to sky and im still in the same boat.
    I was in a friends place last week as he said he is getting 14mb with sky, and yes indeed to my horror a guy more than double the distance from the exchange than me can get 14 mb with sky.

    All of this on top of a major issue with sky making two accounts for me instead of adding bb to my ancient sky tv one, the net result was double bills, mixed up bills,threatening letters of bills unpaid becausei had to block direct debit on old account because they could not get to the bottom of why they made two accounts, and even worse they could not rectify the issue, the list goes on and on guys and the phonecalls to sky seem to be endless too.

    I give up i seriously give up,im at the end of my tether with sky.
    Anyone thinking of moving to sky , avoid like the plague.

    Seriously people what am i supposed to do next?


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    #10
    TheDoc
    Registered Users Posts: 23,137 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    Comreg

    Outline you are being charged for a service not provided and that you are getting conflicting and incorrect information. Let them deal with it.

    Or get in touch with a supervisor or cancellations, and enforce your case. Thats ridiculous and so happy I went with Magnet, in an area infested with **** BB providers.


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    #11
    dub45
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭dub45


    Dcully wrote: »
    Sky are telling me my line cannot go past 7mb yet eircom called to my place and offered me up to 24 mb ever since our exchange has been upgraded.
    ...........................................

    I give up i seriously give up,im at the end of my tether with sky.
    Anyone thinking of moving to sky , avoid like the plague.

    Seriously people what am i supposed to do next?

    What are you line stats? That will tell you what your line is capable of.

    Every dsl user should make sure and know what their line stats are.

    And never believe what any salesperson tells you at the door - (at least in respect of bb speeds!)


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    #12
    cork_south
    Registered Users Posts: 707 ✭✭✭cork_south


    dub45 wrote: »
    What are you line stats? That will tell you what your line is capable of.

    Every dsl user should make sure and know what their line stats are.

    And never believe what any salesperson tells you at the door - (at least in respect of bb speeds!)

    Is my attenuation/noise OK?
    Connection Speed
    12286 kbps (down) 670 kbps (up)

    Line Attenuation 26.0 dB (down) 15.0 dB (up)
    Noise Margin 13.7 dB (down) 24.24 dB (up)


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    #13
    Dcully
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 14,692 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dcully


    dub45 wrote: »
    What are you line stats? That will tell you what your line is capable of.

    Every dsl user should make sure and know what their line stats are.

    And never believe what any salesperson tells you at the door - (at least in respect of bb speeds!)

    Its not just a salesman, i already said above every provider ran a test and the result is 16-18 mb.
    People about 1k from the exchange can get 12-14 mb and im 500 m awaythere is nothing wrong with my line.
    Both myself and another friend are on the sky trial, ie we were among the first in the area to get it, that was before the exchange upgrade,nothing has changed for us since, its obvious we are stuck on old BT gear @ the exchange.

    stats are

    7168 kbps 384 kbps
    Line Attenuation 18.0 dB 12.0 dB
    Noise Margin 14.3 dB 19.19 dB


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    #14
    keno-daytrader
    Registered Users Posts: 858 ✭✭✭keno-daytrader


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    I dont believe Keno is on a big exchange with BT gear. The most likely reason is that SKY have taken on too many customers and that the Bitstream handover is severely congested at peak times ( 6-9pm) . You can leave SKY if you raise a formal complaint and give them 10 days to fix their congestion or else release you from contract for non performance.

    Keno can check his exchange by asking someone using another carrier to test speeds at the same time. I am inclined not to blame eircom for this one. :)

    Thats correct, Im on an exchange that is not LLU, its just resold Eircom bitstream.

    I have lodged a compliant with Sky about the almost unusable broadband in the evenings that many of us are experiencing. Ill post how they respond.

    I really hope they can fix the issue, I am dreading returning to Eircom if this keeps up, I had hoped they wouldnt see anymore of my money.

    ☀️ 6.72kWp ⚡2.52kWp south, ⚡4.20kWp west



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    #15
    codie
    Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭codie


    keno-daytrader wrote: »
    Thats correct, Im on an exchange that is not LLU, its just resold Eircom bitstream.

    I have lodged a compliant with Sky about the almost unusable broadband in the evenings that many of us are experiencing. Ill post how they respond.

    I really hope they can fix the issue, I am dreading returning to Eircom if this keeps up, I had hoped they wouldnt see anymore of my money.

    I too lodged a complaint .It took about 3 phone calls to get it escalated to a complaint to Sky 's supplier Eircom. Had a call from eircom yesterday and guess what my line is ok.It gets the green light as the eircom rep said.So he put it down to contention issues and that would be up to Sky to sort out.Rang Sky this morning and they say I am on unlimited and that there is no contention on my line.So where does one go from here?In the meantime while they all get their prerogatives right I'll be on my 1/2 mb every eve/night.


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    #16
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    You may complain online.

    https://contactus.sky.com/broadband/complaints/email/complaints

    If they do not acknowledge with a Complaint Reference Number then contact consumerline@comreg.ie and complain that Sky have not acknowleged your complaint / given a reference number and which they should do ( at a mininum) within 2 days.

    The link above is the one referred to here

    http://help.sky.com/my-account/make-a-complaint/how-to-make-a-complaint?country=ie

    You should also complain to consumerline@comreg.ie SEPARATELY that Sky have Not published a Code of Practice with issue resolution timeframes for customer complaints for their Irish Customers.

    Do that today. The sooner you get Comreg involved the sooner Sky have to let you go with no penalty.


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    #17
    shedweller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭shedweller


    I was looking at the sky advert for broadband the other day and had considered moving to them.

    Not now!!


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    #18
    swoofer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,427 ✭✭✭swoofer


    and I would send an email to Jeremy Darroch but for the life of me I cant lay hands on his email address. He will not be pleased with sky ireland cocking up and will give them a rocket.

    gbc


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    #19
    keno-daytrader
    Registered Users Posts: 858 ✭✭✭keno-daytrader


    GBCULLEN wrote: »
    and I would send an email to Jeremy Darroch but for the life of me I cant lay hands on his email address. He will not be pleased with sky ireland cocking up and will give them a rocket.

    gbc

    jeremy.darroch@bskyb.com


    The more that email him, maybe we can get the problem resloved before having to go back to Eircom.

    ☀️ 6.72kWp ⚡2.52kWp south, ⚡4.20kWp west



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    #20
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    shedweller wrote: »
    I was looking at the sky advert for broadband the other day and had considered moving to them.

    Not now!!

    Just because one customer has a poor experience doesn't mean you will in fairness,

    There are many people on this forum including myself that have switched to Sky without any problems, I get 17mb on my line throughout the day for example.


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    #21
    cork_south
    Registered Users Posts: 707 ✭✭✭cork_south


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Just because one customer has a poor experience doesn't mean you will in fairness,

    There are many people on this forum including myself that have switched to Sky without any problems, I get 17mb on my line throughout the day for example.

    It's not just one customer.


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    #22
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    I think people on LLU exchanges in big towns are fine. The problem is confined to those on around 850 smaller non LLU exchanges and some of those smaller exchanges will convert to VDSL later this year and the problem will go away.

    If you are looking at a non LLU non VDSL scenario for the foreseeable future then you have a problem and should change to a provider with adequate bitstream backhaul. Sky have grossly oversold their backhaul, they are not the first to so do either. :(


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    #23
    codie
    Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭codie


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Just because one customer has a poor experience doesn't mean you will in fairness,

    There are many people on this forum including myself that have switched to Sky without any problems, I get 17mb on my line throughout the day for example.

    I switched over before xmas didn't have a problem until 3 weeks ago.As cork-south says there is a lot more than one.There are 3-4 forums fairly live at the moment.Maybe they should be all joined into one.


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    #24
    codie
    Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭codie


    After about 10 calls to Sky regarding my slow speeds at eve/night time they have informed me that my line is subject to contention.Wasn't all the previous times but a sky rep just rang me tested my line and gave me the bad news.So he asked me if he could ring me back so he could talk to his wholesaler and asked them to raise my profile.It was the quickest ever.He rang me back after 30sec and said could I test my speed now.Sure enough my daytime speed has doubled anyway to nearly 4mb.Fingers crossed it will stay like that.
    I asked him if he cannot solve the problem where do I stand regarding my package.He said because I was told when the contract started that my line was contention free there shouldn't be a problem if I wanted to move to a different provider.


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    #25
    doney84
    Registered Users Posts: 356 ✭✭doney84


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    I think people on LLU exchanges in big towns are fine. The problem is confined to those on around 850 smaller non LLU exchanges and some of those smaller exchanges will convert to VDSL later this year and the problem will go away.

    If you are looking at a non LLU non VDSL scenario for the foreseeable future then you have a problem and should change to a provider with adequate bitstream backhaul. Sky have grossly oversold their backhaul, they are not the first to so do either. :(


    Forgive my ignorance but could someone tell me what's the difference between LLU exchanges and VDSL exchanges ??? Also does anyone know if a list exists so you could check to see if your exchange is either LLU or VDSL?


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    #26
    iMuse
    Registered Users Posts: 3,975 ✭✭✭iMuse


    doney84 wrote: »
    Forgive my ignorance but could someone tell me what's the difference between LLU exchanges and VDSL exchanges ??? Also does anyone know if a list exists so you could check to see if your exchange is either LLU or VDSL?

    List of LLU exchanges:

    Beggars Bush
    Blanchardstown
    Ballyboden
    Belcamp
    Ballincollig
    Bray
    Balbriggan
    Cabra
    Celbridge
    Crossagalla
    Caherdavin
    Churchfield
    Cork Central
    Nangor Road
    Coolock
    Clontarf
    Crown Alley
    Crumlin
    Carlow
    Castletown
    Castletroy
    Customs Hs Docks
    Citywest
    Drogheda
    Dolphins Barn
    Donabate
    Dundalk
    Dundrum
    Douglas
    Dunlaoghaire
    Dennehys Cross
    Enniscorthy
    Finglas
    Foxrock
    Galway
    Greystones
    Kilkenny
    Lucan Ballydowd
    Dooradoyle
    Letterkenny
    Roches Street
    Merrion
    Mullingar
    Malahide
    Mervue
    Naas
    Navan
    North Main
    Nutley
    Portlaoise
    Phibsboro
    Portmarnock
    Priory Park
    Quaker Road
    Rathmines
    Rochestown
    Rathedmond
    Rush
    Santry
    Sligo
    Ship Street
    Shankill
    Skerries
    Shantalla
    Sandyford
    Sandyford Aeh
    Swords
    Summerhill
    Sutton
    Tallaght
    Terenure
    Tralee
    Tycor
    Walkinstown
    Whitehall
    Wicklow
    Wellington Road
    Waterford Central

    Could people post if they are having speed drops in these areas?

    See HERE if you are near a VDSL cabinet.


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    #27
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    doney84 wrote: »
    Forgive my ignorance but could someone tell me what's the difference between LLU exchanges and VDSL exchanges ??? Also does anyone know if a list exists so you could check to see if your exchange is either LLU or VDSL?

    Ignore VDSL for now. This is the list of LLU Exchanges

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80259295&postcount=562

    There are no problems with Sky services from the exchanges on that list and being most of the largest exchanges in Ireland they account for probably half of all Sky Broadband customers.


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    #28
    Dcully
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 14,692 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dcully


    Just to update on my case, i rang sky again just now and really got stuck into them.
    The guy was doing his best and says no matter what other providers tell me , my line cannot go past 7mb,saying its down to each specific line?
    Im a lot closer to the exchange than friends who also have sky and they get 16 mb.
    COuld the lines be of different quality? for example i live in a small cul de sac in the center of the town,the guys who are getting 16 mb live just on the edge of town in new estates, could their lines be of better quality?
    Another friend who joined the sky trial back in Jan is suffering the same issue as me, hes living in an older estate and is also being told its 7mb max.

    I could be way off the mark here but i cannot think of anything else.

    Im afraid to cancel sky, pay the fee only for eircom etc to not be any faster.
    When i rang eircom they confirmed up to 24mb , as does their website when i enter in my line number, as does magnet and vodafone.


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    #29
    doney84
    Registered Users Posts: 356 ✭✭doney84


    @ iMuse & Sponge Bob, Thanks for the info.

    I'm on the Castlebellingham exchange and as it appears on none of the lists I take it I'm doomed with crappy speeds in the evenings ???


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    #30
    Dcully
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 14,692 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dcully


    The plot thickens, Magnet just rang me 5 mins ago trying to get me to sign up for bb with them, their line test says i can get 15 mb.
    I took this call just 30 mins after speaking to yet another sky support person who yet again said i cant get more than 7mb, jesus christ almighty who do i believe?
    So i have operators ringing me left right and center offering faster speeds ,yet sky swear they have done every possible test on my line and cant offer more than 7mb.


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    #31
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Dcully, raise a formal complaint and get off Sky for contract breach. There is no issue with backhaul IN Monastervan any more, the exchange has 2.5gbs for the town if upgraded to NGB. The problem is on Skys national circuits as they will inevitably pick up more customers on Bitstream than on LLU given their rural and small town customer base.

    I'll wager there are no issues with Magnet backhaul!


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