The 80's Recession V's this one?

MidlandsM · 12-03-2012 10:47am #1

sorry, I know, I know, another fcuking recession thread, but how and ever....

Over the weekend, I was talking to a few people. In seperate conversations, one guy told me that the 80's recession was much worse than this one..........and then another guy told me that this one is the worst, way worse than the 80's one.

What do you think?

Interceptor · 12-03-2012 11:00am

MidlandsM wrote: »

What do you think?

Having lived through the other one, I can safely say they both suck balls to an equal extent.

'cptr

Duggy747 · 12-03-2012 11:02am

At least the 80's recession had the Safety Dance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7movKfyTBII

Dravokivich · 12-03-2012 11:03am

I've a PS3, XBOX360 and UPC HD.

This recessions is easy because I've entertainment easily available to me. When I was a lad I had to play with Cardbord boxes. They were great and all, but now I just want to kill nazis/terrorists/hookers...

smash · 12-03-2012 11:08am

The 80's recession had nothing on this one. Mainly because in the 80's people weren't buying houses for 10/15 times their salaries or cars worth more than a years salary. The personal debt now compared to then is phenomenal.

AngryBollix · 12-03-2012 11:10am

sesssssion

newport2 · 12-03-2012 11:15am

Can't say really, was too young in the 80s. But in the 70s/80s, it was the norm to have peoples clothes passed on to you. The guy in school who had an Atari was very popular cos he was the only one. You got a second hand bike for Christmas if you were lucky. People didn't have much money in the 70s either, so it wasn't as much of a fall.

I think what made this one seem worse than the 80s is that most people became used to a way of life beyond their means.

Smash is right re: debt, but for those who bought at the right time or not at all, this is probably not as bad as the 80s, maybe not so for those who did. Maybe the 80s recession was more equally spread?

Turtyturd · 12-03-2012 11:20am

Give it a few years until Reeling in the Years document this one and we can discuss it properly.

godtabh · 12-03-2012 11:21am

The current recession doesn't have 16% mortgage rates or people going to jobs not knowing if there was a job to go to.

Now people have lost jobs but I think they are better off now than they would have been in the 80s

im invisible · 12-03-2012 11:25am

newport2 wrote: »

Can't say really, was too young in the 80s. But in the 70s/80s, it was the norm to have peoples clothes passed on to you. The guy in school who had an Atari was very popular cos he was the only one. You got a second hand bike for Christmas if you were lucky. People didn't have much money in the 70s either, so it wasn't as much of a fall.

I think what made this one seem worse than the 80s is that most people became used to a way of life beyond their means.

Smash is right re: debt, but for those who bought at the right time or not at all, this is probably not as bad as the 80s, maybe not so for those who did. Maybe the 80s recession was more equally spread?

it was acceptable in the 80's, it was acceptable at the time

Biggins · 12-03-2012 11:28am

MidlandsM wrote: »

sorry, I know, I know, another fcuking recession thread, but how and ever....

Over the weekend, I was talking to a few people. In seperate conversations, one guy told me that the 80's recession was much worse than this one..........and then another guy told me that this one is the worst, way worse than the 80's one.

What do you think?

The 80's depression (even a few years up to it) was far worse in a number of ways (to me anyway).
There was not as much avenues that could be seen, as to how to stimulate the economy back again.
We were still fairly new to the mechanisms of the EU and how things were done, on that alone sometimes we were feeling in the dark, having hit and miss opportunities and disasters till we slowly learned better.

There was also not (and this cannot be understated) so many charities and/or organisations that were willing, never mind able, to help out - even government help to those that were really down and broke - and I mean broke (I remember one day my mother, god bless her, having to bring food to a friend of hers who was heartbroken and depressed at not being able to provide for her children. The 4 kids the next morning really didn't have anything in the home to eat - not even a form of breakfast cereal.), so broke we shared shoes with other families and some clothing.
- I remember the provincial town hall center in my town having to hand out EU unbranded tinned food in plastic bags. All those that had nothing, took these tins and hoped for the best it was eatable. Oft times it wasn't. It was worse than dog food, looked and smelled like it.

My father bordered on the line of becoming an alcoholic at the time, such was the real stress and strain of trying daily to find work just to feed and clothe us.
The schools somehow managed to find money to feed some of the 'special' kids that had nothing - again, oft times not even books or pencils, things was that bad.
(School books was shared a lot more. It was normal to see class rooms with two desks shoved together, sharing books)
One of the first things a teacher would ask daily on entering a class would be "Ok, who's got a book? Do you mind sharing?"

There was no such thing as school trips/holidays away. I couldn't understand at the time why some kids got to go away for school trips and others had to stay at home on a regular basis. Be it one day trips or week trips abroad.
The money was just not there.

My father (electrician) we eventually said goodbye to, what seems like years.
He ended up down in the construction of the Channel tunnel, he ended up in Bermuda for a year on a construction site. He rarely came home during the times but always sent home what money he could.

Everyone we knew in our family was down and broke - and I mean everyone.
It was a terrible, terrible grey depressing time and it breaks my heart to see vestiges of it returning yet again so that in fear, my own kids might suffer from touches of a depression once again.

I am a man. I'm as stubborn and thick as any man can be at the grumpiest of times but will still admit to occasionally having tears in my eye when I look back at the previous times when things were really, really bad, when I look back at how my mother and father suffered - yet amazingly sacrificed food and clothes for themselves so my parents younger offspring could eat.

It was a truly awful time and for many, there seemed no way out. Our local river took many lives and with news of each death, everyone got more depressed.

Long story short, we (Ireland) didn't have the more means, resources, avenues, contacts, experience and much more, to be able to better our economy for some time.

I could go on but I've said enough for now.
The memories are still too painful.

smash · 12-03-2012 11:28am

godtabh wrote: »

The current recession doesn't have 16% mortgage rates or people going to jobs not knowing if there was a job to go to.

16% mortgage rates of house purchased for anywhere between 8-20k when wages were the same bracket vs interest only mortgages on property purchased for anywhere between 350k-sky's the limit when wages are nowhere near that.... Not really comparable now is it.

godtabh wrote: »

Now people have lost jobs but I think they are better off now than they would have been in the 80s

How? People are falling into personal debt repayment plans that will last pretty much for the rest of their lives.

newport2 · 12-03-2012 11:37am

im invisible wrote: »

it was acceptable in the 80's, it was acceptable at the time

That's my point. People in general expect different standards now, which are far higher than they were in the 80s. How bad things appear are relative to the standards you've become accustomed to. If someone thinks the 80s recession is about the same as today's one, then chances are the 80s was, because they expected less back then anyway.

mike65 · 12-03-2012 11:41am

80s recession = state poverty
00s recession = personal poverty

But its all relative, the per capita income adjusted for inflation was much lower in the 80s and we didn't know any better, whereas this time people have quite clearly become poorer while being loaded up with personal debt. The only good news is that inflation and interest rates are not 16%.

Run_to_da_hills · 12-03-2012 11:42am

In the 80's recession it was far easier to escape to the States and work illegally than it is now. You try getting into the States now to work illegally and you will be tracked down and deported in no time.

smash · 12-03-2012 11:44am

mike65 wrote: »

But its all relative, the per capita income adjusted for inflation was much lower in the 80s

But the cost of living was also a lot lower. My listen to my father in law telling me how he bought his 4 bed house for 8k and at the time he earned 7.5k a year ffs.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

In the 80's recession it was far easier to escape to the States and work illegally than it is now. You try getting into the States now to work illegally and you will be tracked down and deported in no time.

Or you know, you can go abroad and work legally.

Gurgle · 12-03-2012 11:47am

This has nothing on the 80s.

The 'new' registration plate format was introduced in 1987, how many cars did you see in that year with 87 on the plate?

Now, go out for a walk.
How far do you have to go to find a 12?

Run_to_da_hills · 12-03-2012 11:48am

smash wrote: »

Or you know, you can go abroad and work legally.

Not an option for those that don't fit the criteria.

JoeGil · 12-03-2012 11:51am

The 80´s recession was much worst than the current one.

In the 80's all areas of the economy collapsed whereas now areas like the multinational sector, farming and IT are still performing well.

In the 80's dole payments were low and difficult to survive on whereas today people can live comfortably on current levels.

In the 80's there was a war in NI.

In the 80's there was no infrastructure but in the meantime EU subventions have allowed motorways, ringroads, airport terminals and rail systems to be built.

In the 80's unemployment was high like today but labour market participation rates were much lower.

In the 80's emigration was more difficult - more expensive and no internet to look up opportunities.

Finally for those having to emigrate life was more difficult. There was no internet to keep in touch, international telephone costs were almost prohibitive and there were less opportunities to fly home.

mikemac1 · 12-03-2012 11:55am

If I may repeat myself from a couple of months ago, a chid's view

Hand me downs were common and normal, I wore my sisters suede jacket to school, I liked it and the lads never slagged me over it. Socks, jackets, jeans, everything got handed down to siblings

Only rich people had two cars, many had none so you thumbed at the local crossroads. This was considered perfectly safe and school children did it no problem.
Thumbing has not realy made a big return to Ireland, it's still rare enough but back then there could be ten or more at your local crossroads.

You drove a Ford Cortina. A BMW or Merc was an exception and a head-turner, nowadays they are as common as muck. Having a BMW/Merc no longer means what it once did

There was such a thing as running in a new car. Modern cars don't need this.
You could buy a car late in the year and wait until January to register it. Wouldn't get away with "for reg" anymore

It was perfectly acceptable to open your front door, call over children and give them money to go the shops to get you cigarettes. Nowadays if you give children money and call them to your front door the gardaí will probably question you as some pervert. :eek:

You could spot the poor kids in school as their books were covered in wallpaper, I was one of these.
It was common for families to share one book between sibilings. Teachers understood so if you didn't have the book they would not shame you.
I went to a CBS so I'd meet my sister at lunchtime and we'd swop books. Teachers knew the score, they would never call you out or put you on the spot about missing books.

A flight to the UK cost up to two hundred punts, ridiculous money. So a holiday was a day out to Leisureland in Salthill.

Money was tight, people could not afford heating oil so you went to bed with so many blankets you could barely move or turn over. Years later I never feel the cold.

There was no Wikipedia or google. You went to the cabinet and got the encyclopedias for that. People sold those door to door.

It was considered acceptable to order a phone line from Telecom Éireann and wait over six weeks to get it. Nowadays people moan about the UPC call center as if it's a big deal

Then just as now, the Dubs were arrogant when it came to GAA football and everyone was sick of listening to them

There was no Oxygen but by the end of the decade we got Féile and The Trip to Tipp. :cool:. It's how Michael Lowry launched his career.
On that note politicians were crooks then as well as now. But we still voted for them, nothing changes

Mac the Knife became a household name :eek:

DoesNotCompute · 12-03-2012 12:00pm

MidlandsM wrote: »

sorry, I know, I know, another fcuking recession thread, but how and ever....

Over the weekend, I was talking to a few people. In seperate conversations, one guy told me that the 80's recession was much worse than this one..........and then another guy told me that this one is the worst, way worse than the 80's one.

What do you think?

In the 80's interest rates on mortgages were thru the roof, well into the teens (around 16% - 17%), making it impossible to meet repayments for small to medium income families. My parents definitely struggled, but since I was an innocent child, I had no idea about any of this until recently. I just enjoyed an idyllic youth. Interest rates now are only around 4%-5% (I may be open to correction on that), so we can't really complain in that regard.

Also, I guess people had a lot less disposable income in the 80's, since the lower rate of income tax was up around 48%. That's arguable though, because nowadays we pay USC, and a rake of levies, and charges, etc.

Even though we're going through a very tough recession now, we have an excellent infrastructure and a highly educated/skilled workforce and have attracted and retained many a US/multinational corporation, and we have the likes of Microsoft, Dell, LinkedIn, Facebook, Google, Paypal, etc setting up European or Worldwide headquarters here. Back in the 80's, the IT sector was nowhere near as mature as it is now. Some say it's booming now in Ireland, despite the recession.

What I don't get is how people b*tch and moan about being broke, and yet spend a fortune on a Satruday night down the pub, moaning about the recession being so tough.

newport2 · 12-03-2012 12:02pm

mikemac1 wrote: »

If I may repeat myself from a couple of months ago, a chid's view

Hand me downs were common and normal, I wore my sisters suede jacket to school, I liked it and the lads never slagged me over it. Socks, jackets, jeans, everything got handed down to siblings

Only rich people had two cars, many had none so you thumbed at the local crossroads. This was considered perfectly safe and school children did it no problem.
Thumbing has not realy made a big return to Ireland, it's still rare enough but back then there could be ten or more at your local crossroads.

You drove a Ford Cortina. A BMW or Merc was an exception and a head-turner, nowadays they are as common as muck. Having a BMW/Merc no longer means what it once did

There was such a thing as running in a new car. Modern cars don't need this.
You could buy a car late in the year and wait until January to register it. Wouldn't get away with "for reg" anymore

It was perfectly acceptable to open your front door, call over children and give them money to go the shops to get you cigarettes. Nowadays if you give children money and call them to your front door the gardaí will probably question you as some pervert. :eek:

You could spot the poor kids in school as their books were covered in wallpaper, I was one of these.
It was common for families to share one book between sibilings. Teachers understood so if you didn't have the book they would not shame you.
I went to a CBS so I'd meet my sister at lunchtime and we'd swop books. Teachers knew the score, they would never call you out or put you on the spot about missing books.

A flight to the UK cost up to two hundred punts, ridiculous money. So a holiday was a day out to Leisureland in Salthill.

Money was tight, people could not afford heating oil so you went to bed with so many blankets you could barely move or turn over. Years later I never feel the cold.

There was no Wikipedia or google. You went to the cabinet and got the encyclopedias for that. People sold those door to door.

It was considered acceptable to order a phone line from Telecom Éireann and wait over six weeks to get it. Nowadays people moan about the UPC call center as if it's a big deal

Then just as now, the Dubs were arrogant when it came to GAA football and everyone was sick of listening to them

There was no Oxygen but by the end of the decade we got Féile and The Trip to Tipp. :cool:. It's how Michael Lowry launched his career.
On that note politicians were crooks then as well as now. But we still voted for them, nothing changes

And yes, throughout history, our leaders made addressed the nation and then went and broke their own rules, Haughey with his famous speech and Kenny with his high paid advisors and salary cap
Death, taxes and our leader lie to us, it's all we can be certain of

Mac the Knife became a household name :eek:

+1

Great post.

Wallpaper on the school book and then later Trip to Tipp, those were the days!

Nothingbetter2d · 12-03-2012 12:03pm

this one is worse.

in the 80's we had no jobs but we had our own currency which we devalued to allieviate some of the inflation and our banks weren't broke and never required bailouts on the scale we have now.

Park Royal · 12-03-2012 12:03pm

In the eighties the Catholic Royal Priesthood had not been exposed as it has

since.....still held a lot of sway in influencing public opinion.......

Life wasn't too bad for those with jobs.....

Interest rates were always a worry if they would keep going up.....

Going to consultants for medical matters was a nightmare if you didn't have

health cover.......one visit could cost a weeks wages......no change there

then..

Logical Fallacy · 12-03-2012 12:05pm

As far as i am aware the 80's recession and this one are very, very different. It's also hard to apply the idea of "what worse" with regard to human suffering and difficulty.

The amount of money involved in this recession, as regards personal and state levels of debt, is massive. But it could also be argued that the majority of the population are in a better place to actually survive it, and even those affected by our current problems are better off than they would have been in the 80's.

Milk & Honey · 12-03-2012 12:08pm

mikemac1 wrote: »

It was considered acceptable to order a phone line from Telecom Éireann and wait over six weeks to get it. Nowadays people moan about the UPC call center as if it's a big deal

:

Six weeks! That would have been considered greased lightening. Albert Reynolds became minister for P & T in 1979 and promised to bring waiting times down from two or three years to six weeks. He was actually slagged off on TV as a fantasist.

People in general were worse off in the 80s. Only 20% of school leavers in 1980 went on to third level. Graduates took jobs as cleaners. Foreign holidays were for the uber rich. The main differences are that the banks were solvent in the 80s and there was not as big an overhang of personal debt. Negative equity was a very small problem.

Balmed Out · 12-03-2012 12:09pm

In the 80s
You were strugling so you had no car, tv, phone.

You werent struggling you had 2 tv channels one old family car, went out to dinner at communions, kids all used hand me downs that started with their cousins, all toys were re cycled through neighbourhoods etc. We were ok but the first item of clothes i had that was actually never previously owned by an elder brother or relative was a jumper i got for my younger brothers communion when I was ten.

Theres no comparison. Theres plenty of people living on welfare that still have satelite tv's mobile phones etc etc.

mikemac1 · 12-03-2012 12:18pm

People rented TVs, haven't seen one of those shops in a long time but once every town had a rental place.

Not sure were VCR's around back then, might have been early nineties

They were horrendously expensive,over four hundred punts for one.

If you had one you'd get requests from neighbours to record stuff and then loan it around some night

One neighbour had a taped copy of a match and we all went to their house to watch it.
Nowadays it's up on youtube or RTÉ player

Xtravision threatened to fine you 25p if you didn't rewind the tape for the next customer :eek:

As a previous poster said, nowadays even people on welfare may be struggling but they'll have a good TV, maybe a realy good one

crapmanjoe · 12-03-2012 12:29pm

From a purely financial point of view this one is a lot worse and will take much longer to recover from (on a personal and state level)

I think the 80s were a worse time to be in tough because nobody had money

I'm hoping that in 20 years when this recession is on reeling in the years we won't like as impoverished and miserable as the 80's recession folk.

mike65 · 12-03-2012 12:31pm

mikemac1 wrote: »

People rented TVs, haven't seen one of those shops in a long time but once every town had a rental place.

Not sure were VCR's around back then, might have been early nineties

They were horrendously expensive,over four hundred punts for one.

If you had one you'd get requests from neighbours to record stuff and then loan it around some night

One neighbour had a taped copy of a match and we all went to their house to watch it.
Nowadays it's up on youtube or RTÉ player

Xtravision threatened to fine you 25p if you didn't rewind the tape for the next customer :eek:

As a previous poster said, nowadays even people on welfare may be struggling but they'll have a good TV, maybe a realy good one

This post has given me a chuckle. You swear the 19th century were being described.

VCRs were on the market from about 1979 and yes were spectacularly expensive as they were new and made in Japan or Germany not a Chinese or Vietnamese sweatshop. On tapes I remember seeing a copy of Alien for sale in a local shop - 70 quid!

Big Nasty · 12-03-2012 12:33pm

The pubs were a lot busier in the 80's than they are today!:cool:

The 80's Recession V's this one?

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