Ulster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

thomond2006 · 11-07-2014 10:02am

Buer wrote: »

While I do think the reaction to these things can be a little bit too PC, it was utterly moronic for the two boys to do it.

PJ is young and can get a little bit of leeway but Chris Henry is a senior player, former captain and about to turn 30. Really, really naive.

Summed up my thoughts there.

vkid · 11-07-2014 11:19am

Buer wrote: »

PJ is young and can get a little bit of leeway but Chris Henry is a senior player, former captain and about to turn 30. Really, really naive.

Sorry now but there is no leeway here. Everyone knows this is unacceptable. Even most kids know this is not acceptable,.

awec · 11-07-2014 11:49am

The face on him! :pac:

Buer · 11-07-2014 12:23pm

vkid wrote: »

Sorry now but there is no leeway here. Everyone knows this is unacceptable. Even most kids know this is not acceptable,.

It was idiotic, absolutely. I don't think everyone thinks it's unacceptable, though. It's taboo and naive and ill judged, undoubtedly. If everyone thought it was unacceptable though, you wouldn't see it still happening every year at Halloween parties.

PJ is 22 years old. I know a few 22 year old college students who do some similarly stupid things. It's in poor taste and they were morons but they (and a lot of peers) thought little of it.

The big difference is the ridiculous naivety of PJ given who he is. A 22 year old student does it and I think he needs to cop on and grow up. A 30 year old does it and I think he's an utter moron.

ScissorPaperRock · 11-07-2014 12:26pm

Andrew Trimble and Michael Allen were two of the others, apparently.

I can't imagine there was any offence intended at all, but it shows a lot of ignorance that the four of them could come together and think that was a good idea.

CatFromHue · 11-07-2014 12:32pm

I can't remember exactly but I'm not sure if 2 years ago this was such an un PC thing to do?

Now it is but that's only after there was a bit of a storm about it last year I think.

Hagz · 11-07-2014 12:34pm

I remember seeing this ages ago and I thought nothing of it for some reason. But I look at it now and I'm pretty shocked. I don't know why it seemed acceptable when I first saw it.

11-07-2014 12:36pm

From all I know of Trimble, this is utterly utterly bizarre for him to have been involved in.

Idiots.

CatFromHue · 11-07-2014 12:39pm

Hagz wrote: »

I remember seeing this ages ago and I thought nothing of it for some reason. But I look at it now and I'm pretty shocked. I don't know why it seemed acceptable when I first saw it.

I think it was just seen as a joke a few years ago to do this but it's become very un PC to do it recently.

11-07-2014 12:40pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

I can't remember exactly but I'm not sure if 2 years ago this was such an un PC thing to do?

Now it is but that's only after there was a bit of a storm about it last year I think.

Ahh no, at no point in recent times has this been acceptable in general. I don't think the lads involved are racists or anything but I'm a bit baffled as to how they ever thought it was a good idea.

Buer · 11-07-2014 12:57pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

I can't remember exactly but I'm not sure if 2 years ago this was such an un PC thing to do?

Now it is but that's only after there was a bit of a storm about it last year I think.

2 years is probably a bit low but definitely in the last 10 years. I remember a gang in college went out dressed as the Jamaican bobsled team and nobody batted an eyelid. That would have been 2004 or so.

It was always dubious in the past 20 years but has become much more frowned upon in the last several.

To use a horrible pun, it's not really a black and white situation.

If someone dresses up as a Native American with a full feather headdress, bow and arrow and fake tan, that would be perceived very differently from this for example but is very similar in truth.

CatFromHue · 11-07-2014 1:03pm

It's certainly only really gathered main stream media attention in the last 2 years or so I'd say.

Noopti · 11-07-2014 1:05pm

I saw the other picture (posted in May) on my twitter feed back then, and I remember thinking "um.....that's a bit stupid", expected to hear more about it in the next few days, but it obviously just fell under the radar.

When I saw this headline I figured that the same image had suddenly been "noticed". But to see it is ANOTHER picture with a similar theme? Wow, how bloody stupid do you have to be to:

a) Think this is acceptable behaviour (I mean....the noose/chain??! wtf?)
b) Decide, two years on that it is then a good idea to bring everyones attention to it in case it was missed the first time :rolleyes:

Mind bogglingly stupid.

riffmongous · 11-07-2014 3:01pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

I think it was just seen as a joke a few years ago to do this but it's become very un PC to do it recently.

I think the american history behind it has become more publicised in the media within the last years, like the minstrel band racism. It's funny because on the continent where they are not so exposed to american influences it's still a totally normal thing, like the dutch at christmas.

RobbieRuns · 11-07-2014 3:57pm

Hard when there is no rugby to talk about................. you know it's off season.

CatFromHue · 11-07-2014 4:09pm

Holly Purring Squash wrote: »

Ahh no, at no point in recent times has this been acceptable in general. I don't think the lads involved are racists or anything but I'm a bit baffled as to how they ever thought it was a good idea.

Radike Samo on "Black Face"

"I don't know what all the fuss is about," he said.
"These guys were actually paying me a tribute. It was a bit of fun and I think it was great they regard me as their favourite Wallaby.
"I didn't have an issue with it at all. I was glad to be in a photo with them, so I don't know why anyone is getting worked up - that sort of reaction is just silly."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/rugby-world-cup/were-having-fun-fans-defend-their-tribute-to-radike-samo-20110918-1kfob.html#ixzz37AmN15qs

baaba maal · 11-07-2014 4:41pm

I fully accepct Samo's right to an opinion on this, the wiki page on "blackface" contains the views of a number of black individuals and representative groups who hold the opposing view here

bilston · 11-07-2014 7:29pm

I imagine most of us have been on a stag or a tour or just a weekend away with the lads where dubious costumes that cross the line or almost cross the line have been worn, so in a way I'm loathe to criticise too much. That said I assume most of us aren't high profile people and therefore the stupidest part of this was not wearing the costumes it was posting the photos online.

Hippo · 11-07-2014 7:40pm

bilston wrote: »

I imagine most of us have been on a stag or a tour or just a weekend away with the lads where dubious costumes that cross the line or almost cross the line have been worn, so in a way I'm loathe to criticise too much. That said I assume most of us aren't high profile people and therefore the stupidest part of this was not wearing the costumes it was posting the photos online.

Thereby getting caught? The stupidest bit was doing it the first place.

11-07-2014 7:46pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

Radike Samo on "Black Face"

"I don't know what all the fuss is about," he said.
"These guys were actually paying me a tribute. It was a bit of fun and I think it was great they regard me as their favourite Wallaby.
"I didn't have an issue with it at all. I was glad to be in a photo with them, so I don't know why anyone is getting worked up - that sort of reaction is just silly."

Yeah I did think about that earlier but it's a different country, different situation. There's no way this would have been acceptable in Ireland a few years back imo.

vkid · 11-07-2014 7:50pm

Absolutely flabbergasted that anyone can think this is any way acceptable now or 10 years ago. Its a long long time since this was acceptable anywhere

Buer · 11-07-2014 9:17pm

Like it or not, if you have been out on Halloween in one of the Irish cities in the last ten years, you'll almost certainly have seen a few lads with similar make up.

11-07-2014 9:43pm

Buer wrote: »

Like it or not, if you have been out on Halloween in one of the Irish cities in the last ten years, you'll almost certainly have seen a few lads with similar make up.

Yes, I am not really offended by their outfits (though if the thing around Jackson's neck is supposed to be chains that is miles out of line) but more astounded at how daft they could be to actually dress like that and put pictures of it on the internet. They are public figures.

vienne86 · 11-07-2014 10:47pm

I couldn't believe this when I saw it on TV. Really really stupid of the guys to do this.......and then to post it on social media. I'm disappointed they didn't have the cop to not do this.

badknees · 11-07-2014 11:49pm

Aye quite funny when ya think that Paddy Mac was a child of missionaries in Kenya,

molloyjh · 12-07-2014 1:22am

Am I the only one who doesn't get the upset this sort of thing causes? Sure if that thing around PJs neck is a chain or whatever I can get that, but what's wrong with painting your face black if you're a white man trying to look black? If I put on a mask to look more like a famous character there's nothing wrong with it. What's so different here?

Racism, discrimination and bigotry are about how you view and treat others. It is not about someone making themselves look different for the sake of fancy dress. I honestly think if people find the face painting thing offensive they are way, way too sensitive. As Samo said, it's just silly. You see plenty of guys on stags or for charity dressing up as women and sticking on blonde wigs. You don't see women or blondes on some form of crusade over it. Brendan O'Carroll isn't viewed as being sexist. This is no different. And anyone claiming that it is needs to look at themselves and realise that they are the ones that are treating (in this case) black people differently from everyone else by trying to say that it is. At some point society needs to turn around and say cop the f-k on. If they are inciting hatred or violence then fair enough. If they are simply dressing up as someone else then it's meaningless.

Now obviously if there is more to it than simply face paint the above becomes a meaningless rant, but if the face paint is the thing causing offense then we really are living in a time where people are hyper sensitive and ridiculously PC.

Hagz · 12-07-2014 2:28am

I'd agree with you, that I don't think there's anything wrong with a white man painting himself brown to look like a black person.

I think there's a line though. I wouldn't agree with painting yourself black or really really dark as I think that cuts too close to blackface. Paddy was really stupid to wear those chains and wear that black mask. Now that is quite clearly offensive.

Buer · 12-07-2014 9:05am

You're not, molloy. The reason being, there's nothing actually racist about dressing up as a black person. We're socially conditioned to think otherwise though and to believe that it's a seriously offensive thing to do. When you actually think about that, it's rather silly.

"Blackface" was originally a concept used in American entertainment by white performers to portray those of colour. The actors accentuated the physical features and diction of those they were portraying in an altogether mocking manner. That was entirely racist. Thus there's a strong connotation with the idea of wearing black face make up being unacceptable. Ireland has no such history and no such links to "Blackface". We have been socially conditioned by dominant media from other countries to believe it's racist though.

If someone wants to dress up as Bob Marley they're going to put on dreadlocks and face paint. Are they racist because they're doing it? Of course not. They're simply portraying a person who happens to be black. They're not mocking him.

There's definitely a lack of even handedness when it comes to such a thing. Johnny Depp played a native American recently in a blockbuster and hammed it up completely. Very little said. The Wayans brothers completely reversed the concept of "Blackface" and played two white girls and did indeed accentuate their diction and mannerisms in a mocking tone but very little was said.

The main problem with the Ulster guys was the lack of awareness of the situation and how it would be perceived especially given their prominence in society. You cannot do this and not expect to put noses out of joint.

Jackson's use of a rope/chain was moronic in the extreme and would definitely be considered racist, however. I don't think the idea of lads using black make up when they're going to an Olympic themed party as a country who have produced some of the greatest Olympians racist though, just very naive.

12-07-2014 10:02am

molloyjh wrote: »

... long post ...

I completely agree with what you've said here and made the exact same point to my better half last night. Me dressing up as a woman is not misogynistic or sexist, so I don't see why dressing as a black person is inherently racist. They had a person from an African association on the news last night (can't remember the name of the organisation) and he definitely focused on Jackson and what appeared to be connotations of slavery. As I said on the previous page, if that's what PJ was going for, it is completely unacceptable imo.

OldRio · 12-07-2014 10:20am

What on earth were they thinking. It's 2014 not 1964.

former legend · 12-07-2014 10:24am

It's made worse by the tensions in Ulster at the moment regarding non - nationals moving into certain areas.

awec · 12-07-2014 10:32am

ok let's move on now.

badknees · 15-07-2014 11:59pm

Went into a sports shop in Belfast today and they had some of the new Ulster kit in and some more to come in.The home white jersey is very silky and fine to the touch I can't see that being a fans favourite.there is also a purple type jersey with a neck that would throttle you looks as if someone threw a pile of psychedelic vomit on it to be fair.No baseball caps again apparently they will be in soon.You will be glad to know that I did purchase an Ulster rugby vest/singlet although when I tried it on to show the wife she advised me to wear it just at home preferably with a big coat,on fat bastards of the world unite.The ladies stuff by all accounts are alright.

damianmcr · 16-07-2014 6:31pm

What shop was this? SS Moores? The new jersey isnt meant to be out until the 30th. Theres usually two home jersey types. One is cotton and the other polyester.