Swiftway - Dublin's first bus rapid transit route - detailed plans released

Calina · 28-03-2015 6:38pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Again, I think we need to point out that MN and BRT are not mutually exclusive. Neither of these proposals are about serving Swords and the Airport alone.

BRT will serve the entire Swords corridor, while MN will serve Swords, the Airport, and the Ballymun corridor.

They are about providing a high frequency service along the entire corridor - not just the end points.

People seem completely blinkered to this.

SO BRT and MN will serve the Swords airport corridor, MN will serve Ballymun and BRT will serve Drumcondra, right?

Because quite frankly, Drumcondra is incredibly well served and Swords does not need both BRT and MN.

markpb · 28-03-2015 6:54pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Again, I think we need to point out that MN and BRT are not mutually exclusive. Neither of these proposals are about serving Swords and the Airport alone.

BRT will serve the entire Swords corridor, while MN will serve Swords, the Airport, and the Ballymun corridor.

They are about providing a high frequency service along the entire corridor - not just the end points.

People seem completely blinkered to this.

If this is built, Metro North won't even be considered for many decades. Think about it from a political point of view: why spend more money on the Swords/Santry corridor when it has BRT?

LXFlyer · 28-03-2015 7:36pm

markpb wrote: »

If this is built, Metro North won't even be considered for many decades. Think about it from a political point of view: why spend more money on the Swords/Santry corridor when it has BRT?

Well that's a matter of opinion. I don't see bus and rail as mutually exclusive.
That's what the North Dublin transport study is going to address.

We will have to wait and see.

Icepick · 28-03-2015 10:56pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Well that's a matter of opinion. I don't see bus and rail as mutually exclusive.

But we have a bus service already. And it could be significantly improved if the management wasn't so incompetent.

Banjoxed · 28-03-2015 11:34pm

Icepick wrote: »

But we have a bus service already. And it could be significantly improved if the management wasn't so incompetent.

I'd be fascinated to see what sort of management could resolve pinch points, private drives onto bus lanes and the general cock-a-doodle-doo that has been Dublin traffic since I was a lad in short trousers. Get someone to manage that, and they could sell their spit for spun gold anywhere.

bk · 30-03-2015 11:09am

What people keep missing or ignoring about the proposed BRT project, is that it isn't just about putting bendy buses on the road. Most of the cost of this project is major road re-engineering, to remove pinch points, put in place bus priority and massively overhaul all the Dublin Bus bus stops.

This re-enginering work will not only benefit the bendy buses, but all buses that use this route, Dublin Bus, Bus Eireann, Aircoach, Matthews, etc.

It is exactly this sort of road engineering and bus stop upgrades that Dublin Bus staff have been crying out for years for.

Banjoxed · 30-03-2015 11:30am

bk wrote: »

What people keep missing or ignoring about the proposed BRT project, is that it isn't just about putting bendy buses on the road. Most of the cost of this project is major road re-engineering, to remove pinch points, put in place bus priority and massively overhaul all the Dublin Bus bus stops.

This re-enginering work will not only benefit the bendy buses, but all buses that use this route, Dublin Bus, Bus Eireann, Aircoach, Matthews, etc.

It is exactly this sort of road engineering and bus stop upgrades that Dublin Bus staff have been crying out for years for.

You say that, bk, but will the reality stand up to the hype? The QBC project was ballyhooed as being a low cost alternative to rail investment but crucial pinch points were never addressed. Luas can't even have traffic light priority because of the Chicken Licken "The-sky-is-falling" PR of motor industry lobbyists.

Why will BRT be any different, when the concentration is on the shininess of the buses and nimby objections?

bk · 30-03-2015 11:44am

Banjoxed wrote: »

You say that, bk, but will the reality stand up to the hype? The QBC project was ballyhooed as being a low cost alternative to rail investment but crucial pinch points were never addressed. Luas can't even have traffic light priority because of the Chicken Licken "The-sky-is-falling" PR of motor industry lobbyists.

Why will BRT be any different, when the concentration is on the shininess of the buses and nimby objections?

Go look at the very detailed plans for yourself, they are all there for you to see.

Road widenings, bridge widenings, new road slips, new BRT stops, re-engineered and indented Dublin Bus stops, new road junctions, new foot paths, new cycle paths are all right there in the plans.

cgcsb · 30-03-2015 1:55pm

bk wrote: »

What people keep missing or ignoring about the proposed BRT project, is that it isn't just about putting bendy buses on the road. Most of the cost of this project is major road re-engineering, to remove pinch points, put in place bus priority and massively overhaul all the Dublin Bus bus stops.

This re-enginering work will not only benefit the bendy buses, but all buses that use this route, Dublin Bus, Bus Eireann, Aircoach, Matthews, etc.

It is exactly this sort of road engineering and bus stop upgrades that Dublin Bus staff have been crying out for years for.

Bus Priority at lights:

Introduced as part of City Swift. Turned off to support the motor industry.
Introduced to the luas red line. Turned off to support the motor industry.

Are we now saying that this time we will definitely get light priority for real-real, pinky promise?

regarding brt at junctions, from plans we still have the bus lane disappearing in favour of a left turning lane at many busy junctions, which = queues to turn left, which = no improvement on current junctions.

We've also not seen any serious indication of actual bus lane enforcement.

pclive · 30-03-2015 1:58pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Bus Priority at lights:

Introduced as part of City Swift. Turned off to support the motor industry.
Introduced to the luas red line. Turned off to support the motor industry.

Are we now saying that this time we will definitely get light priority for real-real, pinky promise?

regarding brt at junctions, from plans we still have the bus lane disappearing in favour of a left turning lane at many busy junctions, which = queues to turn left, which = no improvement on current junctions.

We've also not seen any serious indication of actual bus lane enforcement.

The LUAS has full priority at the vast majority of signals

cgcsb · 30-03-2015 2:02pm

pclive wrote: »

The LUAS has full priority at the vast majority of signals

so why long waits at church st, capel st and Amien st

pclive · 30-03-2015 2:08pm

I've asked about Church street - there is a recent detector fault inbound which is causing the trams to stop
Capel street receives full priority
I enquired before about Amiens street and it receives full priority apart from the PM peak

end of the road · 30-03-2015 2:16pm

bk wrote: »

Go look at the very detailed plans for yourself, they are all there for you to see.

Road widenings, bridge widenings, new road slips, new BRT stops, re-engineered and indented Dublin Bus stops, new road junctions, new foot paths, new cycle paths are all right there in the plans.

they are in the plans yes, but he is asking you will it all be delivered and live up to its expectations? it is ireland after all so i'm not so sure.

end of the road · 30-03-2015 2:20pm

cgcsb wrote: »

so why long waits at church st, capel st and Amien st

to support ja cars begorra, or is it, cors loyk?

View · 30-03-2015 2:25pm

pclive wrote: »

I enquired before about Amiens street and it receives full priority apart from the PM peak

Either it receives full priority or it doesn't.

If is receives priority some (or most) of the time, it isn't receiving FULL priority.

bk · 30-03-2015 3:05pm

end of the road wrote: »

they are in the plans yes, but he is asking you will it all be delivered and live up to its expectations? it is ireland after all so i'm not so sure.

Obviously junction priority is a question.

But all the other works, road windeings, etc. are physical changes that can't be turned off!

stehyl15 · 31-03-2015 12:17am

I wonder where the garage for these brt buses will be

Cookie_Monster · 31-03-2015 12:54am

bk wrote: »

But all the other works, road windeings, etc. are physical changes that can't be turned off!

Until they're physically built however they can be NIMBY-ed out

monument · 31-03-2015 1:22am

View wrote: »

Either it receives full priority or it doesn't.

If is receives priority some (or most) of the time, it isn't receiving FULL priority.

There's no such thing as full priorty on street level.

Shedite27 · 31-03-2015 9:01am

monument wrote: »

There's no such thing as full priorty on street level.

Yeah call it first priority

thomasj · 31-03-2015 9:19am

stehyl15 wrote: »

I wonder where the garage for these brt buses will be

I'm hoping and presuming there will be a new large depot for BRT buses.

It wouldn't make sense storing these in Dublin bus depots. Dublin bus maybe operating the routes but its the NTAs baby and a factor for where to store vehicles would I presumably include easy access to the resources for whoever takes over in the event DB was to lose the contract in the future.

Furthermore, very few of DBs depots would have the capacity to cater for 1 route. A large depot being built would make sense as you can plan for multiple routes. Finding land near the m50 would make sense as it would be in class proximity to the planned airport-city, blanchardstown-ucd and coolock-tallaght routes.

Furthermore it would be better to have a management team that could just focus on BRT rather than BRT and a dozen or so bus routes

ax586 · 31-03-2015 9:52am

thomasj wrote: »

I'm hoping and presuming there will be a new large depot for BRT buses.

It wouldn't make sense storing these in Dublin bus depots. Dublin bus maybe operating the routes but its the NTAs baby and a factor for where to store vehicles would I presumably include easy access to the resources for whoever takes over in the event DB was to lose the contract in the future.

Furthermore, very few of DBs depots would have the capacity to cater for 1 route. A large depot being built would make sense as you can plan for multiple routes. Finding land near the m50 would make sense as it would be in class proximity to the planned airport-city, blanchardstown-ucd and coolock-tallaght routes.

Furthermore it would be better to have a management team that could just focus on BRT rather than BRT and a dozen or so bus routes

There to be based in harristown garage

Tarabuses · 31-03-2015 2:40pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Bus Priority at lights:

Introduced as part of City Swift. Turned off to support the motor industry.
Introduced to the luas red line. Turned off to support the motor industry.

Are we now saying that this time we will definitely get light priority for real-real, pinky promise?

regarding brt at junctions, from plans we still have the bus lane disappearing in favour of a left turning lane at many busy junctions, which = queues to turn left, which = no improvement on current junctions.

We've also not seen any serious indication of actual bus lane enforcement.

Luas priority at traffic lights has also been turned off on the green line.

ax586 · 31-03-2015 3:07pm

stehyl15 wrote: »

I wonder where the garage for these brt buses will be

Harristown garage

end of the road · 31-03-2015 3:09pm

Tarabuses wrote: »

Luas priority at traffic lights has also been turned off on the green line.

ridiculous. luas should have priority over everything else. if the motor industry don't like it, then tough. nothing they could do about it if the right people were in charge

cgcsb · 31-03-2015 3:32pm

end of the road wrote: »

ridiculous. luas should have priority over everything else. if the motor industry don't like it, then tough. nothing they could do about it if the right people were in charge

I think that the argument against luas priority is that there are more bus passengers crossing O'Connell st/Abbey st junction north-south than there is luas passengers crossing east-west. Which I understand. Doesn't explain trams waiting at Capel st and Church street and even blackhall place.

Dyr · 31-03-2015 4:00pm

ax586 wrote: »

Harristown garage

be interesting to see if swiftway is prone to the malaise of every other service that emerges from that benighted garage

pclive · 31-03-2015 4:42pm

cgcsb wrote: »

I think that the argument against luas priority is that there are more bus passengers crossing O'Connell st/Abbey st junction north-south than there is luas passengers crossing east-west. Which I understand. Doesn't explain trams waiting at Capel st and Church street and even blackhall place.

Very rarely have I ever been stopped at Capel Street
LUAS has to stop at Blackhall place for safety reasons

donvito99 · 31-03-2015 10:19pm

cgcsb wrote: »

I think that the argument against luas priority is that there are more bus passengers crossing O'Connell st/Abbey st junction north-south than there is luas passengers crossing east-west. Which I understand. Doesn't explain trams waiting at Capel st and Church street and even blackhall place.

He said Green Line. There's little to know reason to remove priority from the Green line, especially now given that 14/15 and others continue North on Camden St.

end of the road · 31-03-2015 10:25pm

donvito99 wrote: »

He said Green Line. There's little to know reason to remove priority from the Green line, especially now given that 14/15 and others continue North on Camden St.

the poster i replied to was talking about the green line. i believe both lines should have first priority myself but it looks like that is never going to happen

Swiftway - Dublin's first bus rapid transit route - detailed plans released

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