Who thinks Sean Quinn is a great businessman now?

Liam Byrne · 17-01-2012 2:40am

Noreen1 wrote: »

flutered wrote: »

yet he traded a buisness for a laptop, the morning coffee must be non existant in your kitchen.

I thought it wouldn't be long before I received a response - but that was quicker than I expected.:D

Anglo claimed he traded a business for a laptop. But the court made no findings of impropriety, which I find rather strange.

So, I'm still left with the question, how much of what is commonly believed is truth?

I have no obligation of loyalty to Sean Quinn, and, as I said previously, I do not condone fraud, nor offloading debts onto the hard-pressed Irish taxpayer, while allegedly transferring wealth to his own family.
However, I am left with a lot of questions.

Why did the court make no findings of impropriety?
Why did the Judge in Belfast decide that Sean Quinns empire wasn't based in Derrylin? I know for a fact that Sean Quinn himself considered Derrylin to be his centre of business in 2000/2001 - long before he had any motivation to make false claims about it.
So - did his centre of business change since then in terms of revenue, while he himself still considered Derrylin to be his place of Business?
Again, I don't know - but I find the fact that only 20% of his taxes were paid in Ireland would suggest that the bulk of his business wasn't conducted in Ireland, yet it doesn't prove that his taxes were paid in the UK either.

Non-existent morning coffee aside - (I don't drink coffee, by the way:P)based on my own personal knowledge, I have questions/doubts that remain unanswered, and will probably remain so. So, I'll refrain from judgement, since I have reason to seriously doubt one court finding, and can't fathom why there would have been no finding of impropriety in the other, if the allegations were proven.
Jumping on the bandwagon to vilify Sean Quinn would be dishonest in those circumstances, so the only thing I can ethically do is refrain from judgement.

OK - let's forget the laptop for a second.

How about the loans that he PERSONALLY GUARANTEED that he's refusing to pay back ?

Would he not sell his mansion and buy / rent a flat somewhere in order to prevent us from footing his bills ?

shangri la · 17-01-2012 5:20am

Put yourself in his shoes...

you are in a position to make sure your great grandchildren never have to worry about money or you can spend it all on a tax bill.

you would do exactly what he did.

Tayla · 17-01-2012 5:21am

Noreen1 wrote: »

I have serious difficulty in equating the man I knew with the guy who is vilified in the media, and I tend to disbelieve that anyone could change that much in 10 years. So, I'll accept that I will probably never know the full facts, and refrain form vilifying him, based on the facts that I do know.

If you are to believe his wife then he got her to take out loans under 'undue influence'....Good woman Patricia, make your husband out to be prick who takes advantage of you and make yourself out to be a simpleton just so you don't have to repay €3 million!

So either he is a prick and she's stupid or else they're liars.

Mardy Bum · 17-01-2012 12:19pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

OK - let's forget the laptop for a second.

How about the loans that he PERSONALLY GUARANTEED that he's refusing to pay back ?

Would he not sell his mansion and buy / rent a flat somewhere in order to prevent us from footing his bills ?

Who would buy it now? Its in the middle of nowhere.

smash · 17-01-2012 12:26pm

Part of Quinn's proposal was that the bank lend him another €650m so he could complete some 'business' and he'll repay the €2.8b in 7 years. Has he learned nothing?

Gophur · 17-01-2012 12:30pm

Mrs Quinn claimed to know nothing about business yet was director of 91 companies and Company Secretary of 10.

A Company Secretary would have to sign off annual accounts, and is a very responsible position. Surely some offence was committed here and she should be brought before the Courts to account for herself?

It seems rules, regulations and Laws were for people other than the Quinns.

smash · 17-01-2012 12:36pm

Gophur wrote: »

It seems rules, regulations and Laws were for people other than the Quinns.

Sure the whole family claimed living expenses from the companies and never paid any BIK on it.

Liam Byrne · 17-01-2012 12:37pm

shangri la wrote: »

Put yourself in his shoes...

you are in a position to make sure your great grandchildren never have to worry about money or you can spend it all on a tax bill.

you would do exactly what he did.

IF both options were legal, which they're not.

Don't tell me what I'd do, please. You'll show yourself up when you're wrong.

Gophur · 17-01-2012 12:42pm

smash wrote: »

Sure the whole family claimed living expenses from the companies and never paid any BIK on it.

The very thought did cross my mind when I read that.
It will be interesting to see if Revenue chase them with the same vigour they are chasing the OAP at the moment.

Tayla · 17-01-2012 1:55pm

Gophur wrote: »

Mrs Quinn claimed to know nothing about business yet was director of 91 companies and Company Secretary of 10.

A Company Secretary would have to sign off annual accounts, and is a very responsible position. Surely some offence was committed here and she should be brought before the Courts to account for herself?

It seems rules, regulations and Laws were for people other than the Quinns.

The principal duties and powers of company secretaries

wrote:

2.1 A company secretary’s main functions are to oversee thecompany’s day to day administration and to ensure specifically that the company complies with the law and observes its own regulations.

Every person should , on or before appointment as a company secretary,
familiarise themselves with the duties and obligations attaching to the position.

wrote:

2.2 companies, the directors have a statutory duty to ensure that the company secretary is a person who appears to them to have the requisite knowledge and experience to discharge the functions of company secretary

wrote:

2.3 Duties include: statutory duties, duty of disclosure, duty to exercise due care, skill and diligence and administrative duties.

wrote:

2.4.1 Where a secretary is reckless in the conduct of his or her duties, he or she is in breach of the companies act

wrote:

According to her she was just a housewife and the only money she was ever in charge of was the weekly shopping.:rolleyes:

Is she still company secretary of any of these companies?

bicardi19 · 17-01-2012 2:05pm

withless wrote: »

Did he ever build school or a hospital? Anything of that nature?

He gave substantial donations to the new build of the primary school his kids went to.

Mardy Bum · 17-01-2012 2:11pm

bicardi19 wrote: »

He gave substantial donations to the new build of the primary school his kids went to.

He literally built half the facilities, business and social amenities included, of west Cavan over the past two decades. Hes the only reason the place was not an economic black spot.

Noreen1 · 17-01-2012 2:43pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

OK - let's forget the laptop for a second.

How about the loans that he PERSONALLY GUARANTEED that he's refusing to pay back ?

Would he not sell his mansion and buy / rent a flat somewhere in order to prevent us from footing his bills ?

Since he's been made bankrupt, then I think that's likely to happen anyway - and I have no problem with that.
My problem is with the fact that he is being portrayed as some form of modern gangster in the media, where a whole page is devoted to Anglo allegations, with one-liners added confirming that the Court made no finding of impropriety - and Joe Public is swallowing it, hook, line, and sinker.

I'm not infallible, and my judgement about Sean Quinn might have been entirely wrong - yet his staff, and his neighbours, are loyal to him to an extent that can only be described as astonishing.
It makes me pause for thought, that's all.

Gophur · 17-01-2012 2:45pm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

He literally built half the facilities, business and social amenities included, of west Cavan over the past two decades.....

And that, is not true.

Why post such sheer unadulterated BS?

withless · 17-01-2012 3:12pm

Yeah, that's not true. Is there anything with a plaque with his name on it?

Tayla · 17-01-2012 3:35pm

Noreen1 wrote: »

I'm not infallible, and my judgement about Sean Quinn might have been entirely wrong - yet his staff, and his neighbours, are loyal to him to an extent that can only be described as astonishing.
It makes me pause for thought, that's all.

People are just as loyal to Bertie, people were just as loyal to Brian Lenihan.
It doesn't mean that they are amazing people. It means people are stupid.

It also means that anyone who voted for Fianna Fail in the last election was selfish, rather than acknowledge that they were wrong about the party once it all started to unfold, they decided to vote for them again almost as an act of stubborness and a **** you to the rest of us.

At the end of the day, someone has to pay it, either Sean or the taxpayer and Seans supporters want the taxpayer to foot the bill, they clearly can't think rationally because they're blinded out of love for their hero Sean.

ScumLord · 17-01-2012 5:14pm

smash wrote: »

Part of Quinn's proposal was that the bank lend him another €650m so he could complete some 'business' and he'll repay the €2.8b in 7 years. Has he learned nothing?

The only way he could pay back the money is by starting another successful business. He wono't do it with your average 9 to 5. In some ways preventing him from doing business is just a guaranty he'll never be able to pay it back.

Gophur wrote: »

Mrs Quinn claimed to know nothing about business yet was director of 91 companies and Company Secretary of 10.

A Company Secretary would have to sign off annual accounts, and is a very responsible position. Surely some offence was committed here and she should be brought before the Courts to account for herself?

It seems rules, regulations and Laws were for people other than the Quinns.

That's not at all uncommon. What the public see's as one business could technically be two or more with one of the businesses doing manufacturing for example that then sells the product onto another company to sell to the public.

Tayla · 17-01-2012 5:17pm

ScumLord wrote: »

That's not at all uncommon. What the public see's as one business could technically be two or more with one of the businesses doing manufacturing for example that then sells the product onto another company to sell to the public.

That doesn't explain anything about the fact that she was company secretary for 10 companies and then claimed herself that she wasn't fit to fulfil the duties.

MagicSean · 17-01-2012 5:21pm

Noreen1 wrote: »

Since he's been made bankrupt, then I think that's likely to happen anyway - and I have no problem with that.
My problem is with the fact that he is being portrayed as some form of modern gangster in the media, where a whole page is devoted to Anglo allegations, with one-liners added confirming that the Court made no finding of impropriety - and Joe Public is swallowing it, hook, line, and sinker.

I'm not infallible, and my judgement about Sean Quinn might have been entirely wrong - yet his staff, and his neighbours, are loyal to him to an extent that can only be described as astonishing.
It makes me pause for thought, that's all.

Have you ever met his wife? Id love to know if she is as stupid and under his thumb as she pretended to be in court.

davet82 · 17-01-2012 5:26pm

Who thinks Sean Quinn is a great businessman now?

Captain Hindsight to the rescue!

ScumLord · 17-01-2012 5:30pm

Tayla wrote: »

That doesn't explain anything about the fact that she was company secretary for 10 companies and then claimed herself that she wasn't fit to fulfil the duties.

That's because I was answering a different question.

Tayla · 17-01-2012 5:44pm

ScumLord wrote: »

That's because I was answering a different question.

The following is the post you quoted, what question were you answering?

Gophur wrote: »

Mrs Quinn claimed to know nothing about business yet was director of 91 companies and Company Secretary of 10.

A Company Secretary would have to sign off annual accounts, and is a very responsible position. Surely some offence was committed here and she should be brought before the Courts to account for herself?

It seems rules, regulations and Laws were for people other than the Quinns.

ScumLord · 17-01-2012 6:20pm

Tayla wrote: »

The following is the post you quoted, what question were you answering?

This bit.

Mrs Quinn claimed to know nothing about business yet was director of 91 companies and Company Secretary of 10.

A Company Secretary would have to sign off annual accounts, and is a very responsible position. Surely some offence was committed here and she should be brought before the Courts to account for herself?

It seems rules, regulations and Laws were for people other than the Quinns.

Gophur seemed shocked to hear of a large number of companies and I just pointed out that what seems like one company from the outside could be many, it's all legal and above board and is common. It's all paperwork jigery pokery though, in the real world it's basically one company.

Tayla · 17-01-2012 6:24pm

ScumLord wrote: »

This bit.

Gophur seemed shocked to hear of a large number of companies and I just pointed out that what seems like one company from the outside could be many, it's all legal and above board and is common. It's all paperwork jigery pokery though, in the real world it's basically one company.

He didn't seem shocked, he was pointing out the extent of her business portfolio.

ScumLord · 17-01-2012 6:25pm

Tayla wrote: »

He didn't seem shocked, he was pointing out the extent of her business portfolio.

And implying it was illegal which isn't necessarily the case.

Liam Byrne · 17-01-2012 6:26pm

ScumLord wrote: »

Tayla wrote: »

The following is the post you quoted, what question were you answering?

This bit.

Mrs Quinn claimed to know nothing about business yet was director of 91 companies and Company Secretary of 10.

A Company Secretary would have to sign off annual accounts, and is a very responsible position. Surely some offence was committed here and she should be brought before the Courts to account for herself?

It seems rules, regulations and Laws were for people other than the Quinns.

Gophur seemed shocked to hear of a large number of companies and I just pointed out that what seems like one company from the outside could be many, it's all legal and above board and is common. It's all paperwork jigery pokery though, in the real world it's basically one company.

But the point is that if you know your obligations as a director of even ONE, then the others would be the same.

"Not knowing what you're signing"

:rolleyes: for 1 or for 91 makes no difference.

Tayla · 17-01-2012 6:35pm

ScumLord wrote: »

And implying it was illegal which isn't necessarily the case.

You are in breach of company law if you do not fulfil your secretarial duties, you can be prosecuted. Even if Patricia Quinn was too stupid to realise that she had obligations then it was up to the directors to ensure this person was capable before she was appointed.

If Patricia Quinn herself is to be believed then she has breached the company laws.

Gophur · 17-01-2012 6:55pm

ScumLord wrote: »

..............

Gophur seemed shocked to hear of a large number of companies and I just pointed out that what seems like one company from the outside could be many, it's all legal and above board and is common. It's all paperwork jigery pokery though, in the real world it's basically one company.

"seemed" ? I wasn't shocked in the slightest. It's legality is irrelevant.

Tayla wrote: »

He didn't seem shocked, he was pointing out the extent of her business portfolio.

Correct

ScumLord wrote: »

And implying it was illegal which isn't necessarily the case.

I don't know where you drew this inference, it wasn't implied in any way, shape or form.

Tayla wrote: »

You are in breach of company law if you do not fulfil your secretarial duties, you can be prosecuted. Even if Patricia Quinn was too stupid to realise that she had obligations then it was up to the directors to ensure this person was capable before she was appointed.

If Patricia Quinn herself is to be believed then she has breached the company laws.

Correct.

It does seem Mrs Quinn was a Director/Secretary of convenience. Serious breaches of Company Law had to have occurred if
1. She was as thick and stupid as she makes out to be
or
2. Her name was used un-knowingly.

So, either she, or the person who used her name, or both, is/are guilty of something.

Mardy Bum · 18-01-2012 1:14am

Gophur wrote: »

And that, is not true.

Why post such sheer unadulterated BS?

It is true. I don't like Quinn's actions but it is the truth anyone from west Cavan will tell you how much he has done for the area.

flutered · 18-01-2012 1:16am

Mardy Bum wrote: »

It is true. I don't like Quinn's actions but it is the truth anyone from west Cavan will tell you how much he has done for the area.

to the determient of the rest of my country.

Tayla · 18-01-2012 1:30am

Mardy Bum wrote: »

It is true. I don't like Quinn's actions but it is the truth anyone from west Cavan will tell you how much he has done for the area.

Well then maybe the people from west Cavan should pay the debt.....

If they want to stand by Sean and allow him to keep his assets then they should put their hands in their pockets.

Mardy Bum · 18-01-2012 1:58am

flutered wrote: »

to the determient of the rest of my country.

Tayla wrote: »

Well then maybe the people from west Cavan should pay the debt.....

If they want to stand by Sean and allow him to keep his assets then they should put their hands in their pockets.

Who said anybody was standing by him? Who wants him to keep his assets in Cavan now? Most people don't and most protesting last year were mainly fearful of losing their own jobs not Quinns personal wealth. I'm just responding to a comment by stating the truth. Quinn screwed up. Anglo screwed up. Anglo more so. They lied to Quinn and they lied to the government during negotiations for the bank guarantee.

Tayla · 18-01-2012 2:03am

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Who said anybody was standing by him? Who wants him to keep his assets in Cavan now? Most people don't and most protesting last year were mainly fearful of losing their own jobs not Quinns personal wealth. I'm just responding to a comment by stating the truth. Quinn screwed up. Anglo screwed up. Anglo more so. They lied to Quinn and they lied to the government during negotiations for the bank guarantee.

Plenty of people are standing by him, I'm saying that if those people want Sean to be allowed to keep his assets because he did so much for their areas then they should be willing to pay back the debt......because someone has to pay it.

I agree that Anglo behaved outrageously and I hope all involved are punished and lose everything they have for their actions.

Likewise with the fianna fail government.

Noreen1 · 19-01-2012 1:30am

Tayla wrote: »

People are just as loyal to Bertie, people were just as loyal to Brian Lenihan.
It doesn't mean that they are amazing people. It means people are stupid.

It also means that anyone who voted for Fianna Fail in the last election was selfish, rather than acknowledge that they were wrong about the party once it all started to unfold, they decided to vote for them again almost as an act of stubborness and a **** you to the rest of us.

At the end of the day, someone has to pay it, either Sean or the taxpayer and Seans supporters want the taxpayer to foot the bill, they clearly can't think rationally because they're blinded out of love for their hero Sean.

I wonder how many of Bertie or Brian Lenihans supporters knew them personally?

You cannot compare the loyalty? of people to politicians whom they do not know personally, to the loyalty of people to someone they know, respect, and admire.

Incidentally, you did notice that FF were decimated in both the local and National elections, right?

Sean Quinn has been declared bankrupt. His assets will be seized, to pay off as much of his outstanding debt as possible. I've already stated I have no problem with that.

So, when do we get back to being outraged that Anglo debts, which were much more substantial than Sean Quinns, will never be recouped, that NAMA, if it succeeds, will cost those needing a home more than 2+ Billion in buying artificially inflated properties, and if it fails, the taxpayer will be footing yet another bill, probably well in excess of 2+ Billion - and that the Government - not Sean Quinn, decided to take on Anglos debts, and pay the Bondholders.

Methinks, at this stage, we have a great deal more to be outraged and worried about than 2 Billion, substantial as that may be.......

Which leads me right back to the question about so much media coverage about Sean Quinn, and so very little information about matters that have the potential to cost us a great deal more......

Noreen1 · 19-01-2012 1:32am

MagicSean wrote: »

Have you ever met his wife? Id love to know if she is as stupid and under his thumb as she pretended to be in court.

No, I know nothing about his wife, other than what I read in the papers.

K-9 · 19-01-2012 1:37am

Noreen1 wrote: »

I wonder how many of Bertie or Brian Lenihans supporters knew them personally?

You cannot compare the loyalty? of people to politicians whom they do not know personally, to the loyalty of people to someone they know, respect, and admire.

Incidentally, you did notice that FF were decimated in both the local and National elections, right?

Sean Quinn has been declared bankrupt. His assets will be seized, to pay off as much of his outstanding debt as possible. I've already stated I have no problem with that.

So, when do we get back to being outraged that Anglo debts, which were much more substantial than Sean Quinns, will never be recouped, that NAMA, if it succeeds, will cost those needing a home more than 2+ Billion in buying artificially inflated properties, and if it fails, the taxpayer will be footing yet another bill, probably well in excess of 2+ Billion - and that the Government - not Sean Quinn, decided to take on Anglos debts, and pay the Bondholders.

Methinks, at this stage, we have a great deal more to be outraged and worried about than 2 Billion, substantial as that may be.......

Which leads me right back to the question about so much media coverage about Sean Quinn, and so very little information about matters that have the potential to cost us a great deal more......

Just on the Sean Quinn part of Anglo, Quinn would have had to repay Anglo wether it went bust, got Nationalised or some private company took it over.

Here's some facts to put this in perspective:

http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2010/04/03/anglo-what-are-the-options/#more-6204

You see the subordinated bondholder figure of €2.3 Billion? The ones people keep going on about? Quinn lost more in the Contracts for Difference tranactions on Anglo.

onedaysoon · 19-01-2012 1:38am

Up Cavan..

Noreen1 · 19-01-2012 2:16am

K-9 wrote: »

Just on the Sean Quinn part of Anglo, Quinn would have had to repay Anglo wether it went bust, got Nationalised or some private company took it over.

Here's some facts to put this in perspective:

http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2010/04/03/anglo-what-are-the-options/#more-6204

You see the subordinated bondholder figure of €2.3 Billion? The ones people keep going on about? Quinn lost more in the Contracts for Difference tranactions on Anglo.

Thanks for the link.

I'm aware that Sean Quinn would have had to pay Anglo, anyway.

My point was that there is so much vitriol and media coverage of Sean Quinn, and so very little media coverage/information on matters that have/will ultimately cost us a great deal more, one way or another.

Tayla · 19-01-2012 2:32am

Noreen1 wrote: »

I wonder how many of Bertie or Brian Lenihans supporters knew them personally?
You cannot compare the loyalty? of people to politicians whom they do not know personally, to the loyalty of people to someone they know, respect, and admire.

You have no way of knowing how many supporters knew them personally.

Noreen1 wrote: »

Incidentally, you did notice that FF were decimated in both the local and National elections, right?

You do realise that Brian Lenihan got voted back in right?

Noreen1 wrote: »

Sean Quinn has been declared bankrupt. His assets will be seized, to pay off as much of his outstanding debt as possible. I've already stated I have no problem with that.

Yes but the problem is that he wants to make it as difficult as possible.

Noreen1 wrote: »

So, when do we get back to being outraged that Anglo debts

Noreen, we are outraged at the Anglo debts, where are you getting the impression that we're not?

DarkJager · 19-01-2012 2:34am

Noreen1 wrote: »

Thanks for the link.

I'm aware that Sean Quinn would have had to pay Anglo, anyway.

My point was that there is so much vitriol and media coverage of Sean Quinn, and so very little media coverage/information on matters that have/will ultimately cost us a great deal more, one way or another.

Matters that are costing us more by the day because of the reckless financial gambling done by greedy ****ing bastards like Sean Quinn. It must be real nice to run up debts like that knowing the people of the country and their children will pay the balance back. **** Sean Quinn.

tipptom · 19-01-2012 11:02am

The budgetry cutbacks this year was over 3 billion,the same amount of money as Quinn owes the state,illnesses will be prolonged and people will die because of these cut backs.Sean Quinn and his family are undoubtably using what will eventually will be tax payers money for legal companies all over the world to frustate the chances of getting this money back of him.They should stop pussyfooting around with them and arrest every one of them,Wife,son,daughters,sons in law and keep them in overnight and the maximum time under questioning.I would think there is at the very least that their is technacalitys that this could be done under.Might loosen some of them up enough to get the office block in Russia out of them.

flutered · 19-01-2012 11:30am

this guy creamed the cream from the churn, he slipped and let the bucket fall, why should i and others like me pay for him to fill it again, good riddance to bad rubbish i say, please do not make an excuse for this guy who got caught, because the others in the anglo did not.

lazygal · 21-03-2012 9:41am

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/quinn-contempt-case-to-run-four-times-longer-than-expected-3056273.html

How long more is he going to keep pushing away dealing with the problems of his own making?

Run_to_da_hills · 21-03-2012 10:51am

Dean Quinn be smashed if he has to depend on FLAC for this case.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/bankrupt-businessman-sean-quinn-gets-free-legal-help-3052411.html

R P McMurphy · 26-06-2012 1:39pm

Looks like chickens could be coming home to roost. Possibility of coercive and punative actions directed against him, son and nephew if some of the money is not repaid

lazygal · 26-06-2012 4:48pm

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0626/breaking15.html?via=mr

What a chancer.

26-06-2012 6:07pm

Indefinite custody for all of them until their actions which went against the court order are reversed, simple. Though if I were to guess the sanctions that will be passed out will be ones that have little impact on their lives, couple of nights in prison and a few token assets returned will probably be it.

Burt Lancaster · 26-06-2012 6:19pm

In my experience most wealthy people I know in Ireland made their money by being totally immoral gangsters but trying to keep a pretend veneer of respectability on the outside.
Let's face it, there are very few sustainable and legit ways of making lots of money in Ireland, and I would be very suspicious of anyone who appears to have.

kegzmc · 26-06-2012 6:23pm

How much did he manage to hide though? You have to hand it to him. I would do the same. Must be hard all the same to see everything he worked for washed down the tube.

filmbuffboy · 26-06-2012 6:59pm

what has happened to that family just shows that money and success are not the be all and end all! extreme wealth has the potential to destroy your life and reputation!

cant say i feel sorry for Sean Quinn. It seems he has done everything he can to keep foreign assets from the reach of debtors!

he only has himself to blame! greed is a terrible thing

Who thinks Sean Quinn is a great businessman now?

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