France V Ireland – Stade de France, Paris. Sunday 4th March 15:00 RTE2 & BBC2

mikedragon32 · 29-02-2012 3:07pm #1

Wow. Wednesday and no offical match thread so here ye go... My first!

For Ireland it's very much a case of plus ca change, plus ca meme chose with an unchanged team from that which beat Italy last Saturday.

France have Medard ruled out through injury, replaced by Poitrenaud. Otherwise their squad remains unchanged from that which beat Scotland on Sunday.

The teams (for those who need to see them!):

Ireland:
15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
13 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) (capt)
6 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:
16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
18 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
19 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)

France:

15 – Clement Poitrenaud – Toulouse
14 – Vincent Clerc – Toulouse
13 – Aurelien Rougerie – Clermont Auvergne
12 – Wesley Fofana – Clermont Auvergne
11 – Julien Malzieu – Clermont Auvergne
10 – Francois Trinh-Duc – Montpelier
9 – Morgan Parra – Clermont Auvergne
8 – Imanol Harinordoquy – Biarritz
7 – Julien Bonnaire – Clermont Auvergne
6 – Thierry Dusatoir – Toulouse (Captain)
5 – Yoann Maestri – Toulouse
4 – Pascal Pape – Stade Francais
3 – Nicolas Mas – Perpignan
2 – Dimitri Szarzewski – Stade Francais
1 – Jean-Baptiste Poux – State Toulousain

Replacements:
16 – William Servat – Toulouse
17 – Vincent Debaty – Clermont Auvergne
18 – Lionel Nallet – Racing Metro 92
19 – Louis Picamoles – Toulouse
20 – Julien Dupuy – Stade Francais
21 – Lionel Beauxis – Stade Francais
22 – Maxime Mermoz - Perpignan

Now, have at ye!

dub_skav · 29-02-2012 3:09pm

No shock there, but it's official, kidney is a moron

BoardsMember · 29-02-2012 3:11pm

It's "plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"

That's a better post than any contentious comment about Conor Murrays continued inclusion, which might derail this thread, or result in it being closed

Tox56 · 29-02-2012 3:14pm

Well, at least we have a chance, it is a two-horse race.

mikedragon32 · 29-02-2012 3:16pm

BoardsMember wrote: »

It's "plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"

That's a better post than any contentious comment about Conor Murrays continued inclusion, which might derail this thread, or result in it being closed

Knowlege of where (and indeed how) to insert a circumflex and French grammar are not my strong suits. Much less so cedillas!

Principal Skinner · 29-02-2012 3:17pm

Tox56 wrote: »

Well, at least we have a chance, it is a two-horse race.

And if we're lucky we might come second

.ak · 29-02-2012 3:19pm

Tox56 wrote: »

Well, at least we have a chance, it is a two-horse race.

Shergar vs Rodney's Reliant

BoardsMember · 29-02-2012 3:21pm

mikedragon32 wrote: »

Knowlege of where (and indeed how) to insert a circumflex and French grammar are not my strong suits. Much less so cedillas!

Je copy et paste!

dub_skav · 29-02-2012 3:22pm

Tox56 wrote: »

Well, at least we have a chance, it is a two-horse race.

The French eat horse, don't they :eek:

andrewdcs · 29-02-2012 3:24pm

BoardsMember wrote: »

Je copy et paste!

Mez Oui This is how we select teams in Irlande!

rrpc · 29-02-2012 3:25pm

I can't say I'm surprised. It's getting more like the EOS days as the years roll on. The more people scream for a change to be made, the deeper the heels are dug in and the greater the change is resisted...

Perhaps if there were general choruses of 'Ryan and Reddan out', the situation might reverse itself.

Or not.

To be brutally honest, I'd kinda given up on anything other than a poor 6N. It looks more likely now, but there's always the possibility of a porcine V-formation going overhead. :rolleyes:

Good luck the U20s

BoardsMember · 29-02-2012 3:31pm

Isn't it a weird situation we find ourselves in. There are a couple of players in particular, Ryan & Reddan, that have come on and to the naked eye, seem to have done much better than the players they replaced.

I can understand Kidney's line regarding you have to take into contention what the players had done before they arrived. But how then does playing well off the bench get you into the team? I mean, it's a bit of a weird situation really. Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

Particularly for Ryan - he's deposed O'Callaghan in Munster, but still cant get in.

I also find Kidneys argument very dodgy regarding Reddan/Murray - does the preference for a slow passing, indecisive scrum half getting caught up in rucks improve your overall chances of winning a game because he's a good defender? Are we not better off starting the guy who is clearly playing better at being a SH?

I'm prepared for the game, watching it through my fingers as usual. We'll hav a great last 20 minutes, I'm sure of that.

BoarHunter · 29-02-2012 3:44pm

dub_skav wrote: »

The French eat horse, don't they :eek:

you have no idea how good it taste

ç ê easy ! Alt136 and Alt135 ( use keypad )

dub_skav · 29-02-2012 3:47pm

BoarHunter wrote: »

you have no idea how good it taste

I'm sure it's delicious, but I'm not looking forward to my national team being the meat

andrewdcs · 29-02-2012 3:50pm

From the last few games, I worry about what happens when we "switched off" as we did against Wales and Italy for periods, possibly for the lack of BOD but I dunno.

gameplan was shocking vs wales (kick it, go lateral, drift, dont attack their line...) better against Italy *(ie . what we did in the world cup, dismantle them)

We do seem to give france 30 points and then try to catch them, some kind of inside joke I'm sure, but I'm also pretty sure if we go in at half time 30 points down, we'll end the game 5 points down.

Lets pretend we're 30 points down to begin with! Unlike France who wouldn't bother, we see to love the challenge..

and selections.... bah.

[Jackass] · 29-02-2012 4:00pm

I have to commend Kidney on his innovation here. You can just tell he pours over every facet of the game and sweats over who to select. I also agree that anyone who gets an Irish jersey as easily as Conor Murray should also be immune from being dropped. He's just given to much to Irish rugby, and to this nation as a whole to drop him now. Too many great memories and fine moments in his career, only BOD is fit to shine his boots.

I also think he brought his dusty old ethics book when he selected O'Callaghan. I mean, wouldn't it be such a shame if he went out in a fashion where he wasn't the best player for the position anymore? I think he needs another couple of seasons to mature and develop, and just leave him in the team until then, after all, his form may return. And if push comes to shove, we've always got a better option on the bench. We learnt from John Hayes that this is definitely the way to go.

I suppose the only shocks are that Danny Barnes and Simon Zebo didn't start, but seeing as this should be an easy enough game, it's right to hold them back as our secret weapon. I also think Ronan O'Gara should have started ahead of Sexton, as he can kick and Sexton can't (and it seems he has an attitude and refuses to play when wearing an Irish jersey) and we need to keep an eye on who we'll start in the next world cup now, and then just keep playing them until then, and it'll probably be fine, so Ronan is the man for me when it comes to that one.

All in all though, I'd say Kidney is a superb coach, really insightful, and we're lucky to have him.

Cormic · 29-02-2012 4:00pm

FFS - I am disappointed and not surprised at the same time.

29-02-2012 4:01pm

I've followed Rugby a long time, love the game and have a reasonable sense of it. Like many on this forum however the amount of rugby I've played is fairly minimal.

For this reason - I have faith that the reasons behind the team selection are beyond my comprehension of the game.

Nothing to change now anyway so - COME ON IRELAND.

thomond2006 · 29-02-2012 4:03pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I've followed Rugby a long time, love the game and have a reasonable sense of it. Like many on this forum however the amount of rugby I've played is fairly minimal.

For this reason - I have faith that the reasons behind the team selection are beyond my comprehension of the game.

Hi Declan.

Otacon · 29-02-2012 4:04pm

Someone has hacked [Jackass]'s account.

Seph503 · 29-02-2012 4:17pm

Otacon wrote: »

Someone has hacked [Jackass]'s account.

More likely the team selection has forced him to have a mental breakdown:p

leftleg · 29-02-2012 4:30pm

Seph503 wrote: »

More likely the team selection has forced him to have a mental breakdown:p

Tamed by the Kidney

Cardinal Richelieu · 29-02-2012 4:36pm

Surprised Servat didn't come back into the French starting lineup. I would have liked to see Peter O'Mahoney starting in place of O'Brien.

29-02-2012 4:40pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Hi Declan.

If I was DC every sentence would start with "I suppose" and end with "like".

I would have also use an extra 100 words but made no actual point or comment...

leftleg · 29-02-2012 4:47pm

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

I would have liked to see Peter O'Mahoney starting in place of O'Brien.

Why, without being vague; can someone for the love of God tell me how in clear, precise, definitive terms why this man should start ahead of SOB.

Big Nelly · 29-02-2012 4:56pm

Disaster but I expected just as much......what does Redden have to do to start? play for munster I guess

leftleg · 29-02-2012 4:59pm

Big Nelly wrote: »

Disaster but I expected just as much......what does Redden have to do to start? play for munster I guess

Give slow ball

MungBean · 29-02-2012 5:03pm

[Jackass] wrote: »

I have to commend Kidney on his innovation here. You can just tell he pours over every facet of the game and sweats over who to select. I also agree that anyone who gets an Irish jersey as easily as Conor Murray should also be immune from being dropped. He's just given to much to Irish rugby, and to this nation as a whole to drop him now. Too many great memories and fine moments in his career, only BOD is fit to shine his boots.

I also think he brought his dusty old ethics book when he selected O'Callaghan. I mean, wouldn't it be such a shame if he went out in a fashion where he wasn't the best player for the position anymore? I think he needs another couple of seasons to mature and develop, and just leave him in the team until then, after all, his form may return. And if push comes to shove, we've always got a better option on the bench. We learnt from John Hayes that this is definitely the way to go.

I suppose the only shocks are that Danny Barnes and Simon Zebo didn't start, but seeing as this should be an easy enough game, it's right to hold them back as our secret weapon. I also think Ronan O'Gara should have started ahead of Sexton, as he can kick and Sexton can't (and it seems he has an attitude and refuses to play when wearing an Irish jersey) and we need to keep an eye on who we'll start in the next world cup now, and then just keep playing them until then, and it'll probably be fine, so Ronan is the man for me when it comes to that one.

All in all though, I'd say Kidney is a superb coach, really insightful, and we're lucky to have him.

When I read that it automatically took on the voice of George Hook in my head for some reason. No offence meant or anything I'm just having one of those odd days. I initially tried to reply to your post using the report function, not sure what a mod would have made of me reporting a post because it made me think of George Hook.

More Lemsip !!

Fireball07 · 29-02-2012 5:06pm

leftleg wrote: »

Why, without being vague; can someone for the love of God tell me how in clear, precise, definitive terms why this man should start ahead of SOB.

I don't think SOB should be dropped for the French game but the reasoning SOB is not playing that well. He's not been terrible but he's been way below the level he can play that. And it's not just that he's not been carrying ball, he hasn't been contributing as much as he can around the field (although he remains very strong in defence).

That said Ryan and Reddan deserve first-team places much more than POM. I'd like to see POM get a game against Scotland though.

Quint2010 · 29-02-2012 5:06pm

Really surprised Reddan isn't starting. And Ryan for that matter. I really really really really hope we win. But if we don't win I hope we lose badly rather than a heroic defeat which will give Kidney scope to justify is postively mystifying selections

leftleg · 29-02-2012 5:14pm

Fireball07 wrote: »

That said Ryan and Reddan deserve first-team places much more than POM. I'd like to see POM get a game against Scotland though.

Really i thought Scotalnd have a rather classy backrow; Denton looks really really mobile and quick; Rennie managed to rip ball out of at least 3 players grips (1 being hairydonkey iirc) and Barcley is well Barcley; another class act; I dont see Scotland as being easy at all; They gave all the other teams (France, England and Wales) a right good go and if we dont play well they will easily beat us.

Tox56 · 29-02-2012 5:15pm

leftleg wrote: »

Really i thought Scotalnd have a rather classy backrow; Denton looks really really mobile and quick; Rennie managed to rip ball out of at least 3 players grips (1 being hairydonkey iirc) and Barcley is well Barcley; another class act; I dont see Scotland as being easy at all; They gave all the other teams (France, England and Wales) a right good go and if we dont play well they will easily beat us.

I think it's the best chance to test players. The players that would be tested (POM being one) are quality players.

Fireball07 · 29-02-2012 5:17pm

leftleg wrote: »

Really i thought Scotalnd have a rather classy backrow; Denton looks really really mobile and quick; Rennie managed to rip ball out of at least 3 players grips (1 being hairydonkey iirc) and Barcley is well Barcley; another class act; I dont see Scotland as being easy at all; They gave all the other teams (France, England and Wales) a right good go and if we dont play well they will easily beat us.

I don't disagree. Scotland have an excellent back row and were very unlucky against France.

But if we lose against France and SOB has another merely okay game, then we're not going to lose anything by POM. He always brings a ferocious intensity to his game, something which the Irish team is lacking. And I'm not just blaming SOB for that, none of the forwards are playing with the ferocity they're capable of.

Of course change is probably unlikely under Kidney, but I'd give POM a game.

leftleg · 29-02-2012 5:17pm

Tox56 wrote: »

I think it's the best chance to test players. The players that would be tested (POM being one) are quality players.

I know hindsights great but shouldn't we have done that against Italy; Wasnt that the best time to do it;

marco_polo · 29-02-2012 5:21pm

leftleg wrote: »

I know hindsights great but shouldn't we have done that against Italy; Wasnt that the best time to do it;

On the initial fixture leist it would have been a good idea but there was no chance of that happening after the postponment of the French Game (and probbaly no chance of some rotation anyway truth be told), as heading to Paris with no rugby played for three weeks would be a recipe for disaster.

BoardsMember · 29-02-2012 5:22pm

Let's face facts here. We're playig France in Paris with a confused and what appears to be a conservative game plan, and we're going in without BOD, and with certainly two of the bench playing better rugby than the starting lineup. We have not got a hope in hell. The best we can hope for is a moral history - a good last 20 mins, when the French know it's over and are tiring after playing 5 out of the last 6 weeks, and we get ER and DR onto the pitch. End of story.

irishbucsfan · 29-02-2012 5:28pm

BoardsMember wrote: »

Let's face facts here. We're playig France in Paris with a confused and what appears to be a conservative game plan, and we're going in without BOD, and with certainly two of the bench playing better rugby than the starting lineup. We have not got a hope in hell. The best we can hope for is a moral history - a good last 20 mins, when the French know it's over and are tiring after playing 5 out of the last 6 weeks, and we get ER and DR onto the pitch. End of story.

We are still on for a moral grand slam in fairness

molloyjh · 29-02-2012 5:30pm

Fireball07 wrote: »

But if we lose against France and SOB has another merely okay game, then we're not going to lose anything by POM.

The only issue here being that if we lose to France and then lose to Scotland (at home) we'll be going into the England game with 1 win from 4 and absolutely no guarantees that we'll win over in London.

If (when) we lose to France Kidney will need a win against Scotland. Otherwise his neck will be on the chopping block (you'd hope). He'll be even less inclined to take risks in that game than he is now. The only changes I can see is Ryan for DOC and Reddan for Murray. Possibly ROG for Sexton and Ferg in for one of Trimble/Bowe/Darce but not likely.

totallegend · 29-02-2012 5:32pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We are still on for a moral grand slam in fairness

I'm sure we'll find some reason to pin the blame on Dave Pearson. He should have recommended a red for Bradley Davies you know, I'm surprised no one commented on that on boards.ie...

JustinDee · 29-02-2012 5:43pm

Flippin' hell. Doomsayers Utd.

The team are absolutely gunning for this game. Don't be surprised if they do cap off a top performance with a win.

prospect · 29-02-2012 5:45pm

Games played: 89

Games won by Ireland: 29
Games won by France: 55
Games drawn: 5

Most wins in a row for Ireland: 6
Most wins in a row for France: 15

Largest points for Ireland: 31 (43 - 31)
Largest points for France: 45 (45 - 10)

Largest winning margin for Ireland: 24 (24 - 0)
Largest winning margin for France: 39 (44 - 5)

Total points for Ireland: 1,014
Total points for France: 1,447

Average points for Ireland per game: 11.39
Average points for France per game: 16.26
Average points difference per game between Ireland and France: -4.87

MungBean · 29-02-2012 5:49pm

JustinDee wrote: »

Flippin' hell. Doomsayers Utd.

The team are absolutely gunning for this game. Don't be surprised if they do cap off a top performance with a win.

How many times have we heard that one ? That argument no longer holds any water in regards to this team.

Dont be surprised if we lose yet another game we "could have won".

Darsher · 29-02-2012 5:50pm

I don't see why Declan Kidney or "Mr Conservative" as he is known up here in the North doesn't change around the captains role , i mean how many times does Sexton need to produce a man of the match performance before he gets to put on the captains armband?

Tox56 · 29-02-2012 5:53pm

Darsher wrote: »

I don't see why Declan Kidney or "Mr Conservative" as he is known up here in the North doesn't change around the captains role , i mean how many times does Sexton need to produce a man of the match performance before he gets to put on the captains armband?

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzh2b9hOCE1qe4kh8.png

JustinDee · 29-02-2012 5:55pm

MungBean wrote: »

How many times have we heard that one ? That argument no longer holds any water in regards to this team.

Dont be surprised if we lose yet another game we "could have won".

Its not an "argument". Just the way they are at the moment.
Chin up.

leftleg · 29-02-2012 5:57pm

JustinDee wrote: »

Its not an "argument". Just the way they are at the moment.
Chin up.

We were like that once too, i think

leftleg · 29-02-2012 5:57pm

JustinDee wrote: »

Its not an "argument". Just the way they are at the moment.
Chin up.

We were like that once too, i think

WeeBushy · 29-02-2012 5:59pm

Darsher wrote: »

I don't see why Declan Kidney or "Mr Conservative" as he is known up here in the North doesn't change around the captains role , i mean how many times does Sexton need to produce a man of the match performance before he gets to put on the captains armband?

Why do you think the MOM awards should have any bearing on who is chosen as captain?

paulbearer · 29-02-2012 6:03pm

to be honest, bit sick of conservative kidney at the moment! why are we so afraid to say "you know what, we fecking reckon we will beat the ****e out of france and have a right craic at this championship"? i know it would cause a stir but it might inspire the players, just look at what gatland has done!!

chancer12 · 29-02-2012 6:05pm

Darsher wrote: »

I don't see why Declan Kidney or "Mr Conservative" as he is known up here in the North doesn't change around the captains role , i mean how many times does Sexton need to produce a man of the match performance before he gets to put on the captains armband?

He'll never get the Captain's armband from POC - MUNSTER! For what it's worth, I'd love to have seen Best with it. Think he might bring more to the role than O'Connell, but its a case of 'dream on'.

29-02-2012 6:05pm

WeeBushy wrote: »

Why do you think the MOM awards should have any bearing on who is chosen as captain?

not to mention that there's plenty more contenders for captain before Sexton would be near the front.
Best, Ferris, Heaslip, SOB all far more likely candidates.

France V Ireland – Stade de France, Paris. Sunday 4th March 15:00 RTE2 & BBC2

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