Sinn Féin the most popular party in latest poll (mod warnings in OP)

sid waddell · 02-11-2014 2:16pm

rozeboosje wrote: »

Sadly, I'm not surprised. One major political party completely flurked up this country when they were in power. Then the other one took over, bulldozed its junior coalition partner into an untenable position as all too often happens in coalitions such as these, and then proceeded to rape the people who were already suffering over and over and over again in order to balance the books. All of this plays perfectly into the agenda of populist scumbags, just like it always has. I dare say the outcome will also be only too predictable.

Yes, because of course Fine Gael and Labour weren't a bit populist before the last election. And Fianna Fail never did populism, never.;)

The nature of democratic politics is that it is populist.

"Scumbags". Great, insightful contribution there.

twowheelsgood · 02-11-2014 2:19pm

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Interesting economic recovery where everybody has less and less money every year.

Er, yeah. That's to be be expected when we found ourselves with an eye-watering deficit of €20b.

Do you know of a plan to close a deficit where does not leave people with less money?

alastair · 02-11-2014 2:22pm

K-9 wrote: »

Well yes, the 2 and a half party system is gone, that's for sure, but there has been no major change yet from the elections, the polls are too unpredictable.

SF were doing poorly in the polls a few months back, now doing well. I don't see what the reason is for either tbh, the 2 opposition parties have been poor for me and it's more disillusionment from Labour voters and even a few FG that's causing the unpredictability.

SF were doing poorly in actual elections two weeks ago. So I'll wait and see what a general election brings, but unless there's a greater shift than this poll suggests, we still won't be seeing SF in government after that election. Improving economic matters will not do SF any favours in the mid term.

catallus · 02-11-2014 2:23pm

God, so much noise over a flash-in-the-pan opinion poll. Worse than the football pundits.

Banjo String · 02-11-2014 2:27pm

alastair wrote: »

SF were doing poorly in actual elections two weeks ago. So I'll wait and see what a general election brings, but unless there's a greater shift than this poll suggests, we still won't be seeing SF in government after that election. Improving economic matters will not do SF any favours in the mid term.

By getting the most first preference votes?

alastair · 02-11-2014 2:32pm

Banjo String wrote: »

By getting the most first preference votes?

By not winning a seat that they were expected to get. Not much point in first preferences if you lose on transfers.

sid waddell · 02-11-2014 2:33pm

Obviously this poll makes good reading for Sinn Fein. But the reality of the constituency system and its focus on local matters and the importance of grass roots organisation (in which Sinn Fein still lags behind FG anf FF) means that the likelihood is that SF will only be the third biggest party come 2016.

The way I see it playing out is that Fine Gael will drop to somewhere in the 50s in terms of seats. I find it hard to see Fianna Fail not having enough of a core vote to pick up an average of roughly one seat per constituency, which will mean they end up on around 40 seats. Sinn Fein I imagine will have something in the high 30s but a comparative lack (as yet) of grass roots organsation in rural constituencies will probably hold them back in the same way that Labour hit a ceiling.

FG/Labour will very likely not have enough seats after the next election to form a government. I wouldn't rule out any coalition combination happening, but the outcome is likely to be uncharted territory either way in that it will likely lead to either Sinn Fein as part of a government or a FG/FF coalition.

Sinn Fein will have a choice similar to that faced by Labour in 2011. Stay out of government and effectively force Fianna Fail to go in with Fine Gael or go in as a junior partner after which they will likely lose support significantly. Labour chose to go in and have destroyed themselves as an electoral force for the forseeable future. If Sinn Fein stay out of government and force FF in as junior partners there is a possibility they can destroy FF as a signficant electoral force for good and position themselves to lead a government in 2021.

A Fianna Fail/Sinn Fein coalition is a possibility. The really interesting outcome will be if SF get more seats than FF.

dave ireland · 02-11-2014 2:38pm

alastair wrote: »

SF were doing poorly in actual elections two weeks ago. So I'll wait and see what a general election brings, but unless there's a greater shift than this poll suggests, we still won't be seeing SF in government after that election. Improving economic matters will not do SF any favours in the mid term.

I was on the water march yesterday (first time ever to go on a protest) believe me don't mind the polls SF are in next time, The water bills and court cases start rolling all through next year nice and fresh in peoples mind on election year 2016

alastair · 02-11-2014 2:45pm

dave ireland wrote: »

I was on the water march yesterday (first time ever to go on a protest) believe me don't mind the polls SF are in next time, The water bills and court cases start rolling all through next year nice and fresh in peoples mind on election year 2016

SF are in at the moment, but their being in, after the next election, doesn't mean that they'll be in government. Doubt that those who went on the protests automatically support SF either.

rozeboosje · 02-11-2014 2:48pm

sid waddell wrote: »

Yes, because of course Fine Gael and Labour weren't a bit populist before the last election. And Fianna Fail never did populism, never.;)

The nature of democratic politics is that it is populist.

"Scumbags". Great, insightful contribution there.

Oh, don't get me started on the quality of Irish politicians. But there is a difference between the shameless opportunism of parties such as FF, FG and yes, even Labour, and the populism that a party like SF likes to run with. Still, at least you guys don't have someone like Geert Wilders to contend with.

[shudder]

catallus · 02-11-2014 2:52pm

rozeboosje wrote: »

Oh,... Still, at least you guys don't have someone like Geert Wilders to contend with.

[shudder]

That guy has got some serious hair.:D

sid waddell · 02-11-2014 2:52pm

alastair wrote: »

SF are in at the moment, but their being in, after the next election, doesn't mean that they'll be in government. Doubt that those who went on the protests automatically support SF either.

If Sinn Fein are not in government after the next election, that will likely mean a FG/FF coalition, and Sinn Fein's support will continue to grow, meaning they will likely be in a position to become the largest party and lead a government at the election after next.

A FG/FF coalition in 2016 would likely be abolutely toxic electorally to both parties and result in both of them suffering heavily electoral losses at the following election.

DazMarz · 02-11-2014 2:53pm

Godge wrote: »

Today's poll shows that a potential SF/FF coalition would have 46% of the vote. Given the fractured nature of the independent vote, that would be enough to gain them an overall majority should they agree a transfer pact.

Cuiv would do a deal with them, even if Martin wouldn't.

maccored wrote: »

I cant see that happening, but the day it does is the day I stop voting SF.

And this is the biggest problem that would face Sinn Féin, in my opinion.

Sinn Féin supporters absolutely despise Fine Gael/Fianna Fáil/Labour. Entering into government with any of them would be seen as the ultimate slap in the face from the party to its supporters. They would rapidly see themselves becoming vilified, especially if it was as a minor coalition partner.

Give it 7 years or so, and Sinn Féin (if things remain on the same trajectory) will have a real, fighting chance of being a huge player in running the show.

But, as they say, a week is a long time in politics. The time to the next General Election, therefore, is an eternity. The GE after the next one is positively a lifetime. Who knows what the hell will happen between hither and yon.

I still maintain that Sinn Féin's transfer toxicity will hurt them more than anything else. In my own county, they did very well at the local elections, garnering a huge percentage of the first preferences. But in terms of seats, they came in 4th behind Independents, Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil.

You can be damn sure that Dublin will be a major area of support for Sinn Féin. But Fianna Fáil, despite the polls, will also gain significant seats.

I still think that the next general election will result in something like this, in terms of seats won (and this doesn't take into account any new parties, however).

FG: 50-55 seats
FF: 30-35 seats
SF: 20-25 seats
Lab: 10-15 seats
Oth/Ind: 20-30 seats

However, that could be totally off. It still stands that the bookies' favourite is an FF/FG coalition. And I've yet to see a bookie on a bicycle. Them lads are never far wrong.

rockatansky · 02-11-2014 2:54pm

alastair wrote: »

SF are in at the moment, but their being in, after the next election, doesn't mean that they'll be in government. Doubt that those who went on the protests automatically support SF either.

No doubt about it, they don't.

twowheelsgood · 02-11-2014 2:54pm

sid waddell wrote: »

A FG/FF coalition in 2016 would likely be abolutely toxic electorally to both parties and result in both of them suffering heavily electoral losses at the following election.

Even though a FF/FG coalition is a better fit than almost any other (ignoring FF recent past) it is the least likely to happen.

rockatansky · 02-11-2014 2:57pm

Good to see a decent debate for once on Sinn Fein, hope it doesn't descend into the usual mad house.

Dan_Solo · 02-11-2014 3:00pm

rockatansky wrote: »

No doubt about it, they don't.

Although they would need to be a bit schizo to go on the water marches and be planning on voting FG/LB next time out.

DazMarz · 02-11-2014 3:01pm

alastair wrote: »

SF are in at the moment, but their being in, after the next election, doesn't mean that they'll be in government. Doubt that those who went on the protests automatically support SF either.

This. The "United Left" of Ireland is anything but. The biggest case in point of this will be the constituency of Dun Laoghaire. Last General Election, Richard Boyd Barrett and Sinn Féin struck a deal; SF would not run a candidate in Dun Laoghaire to open the door for RBB, and it worked as he scraped in ahead of Mary Hanafin.

However... this time out, seeing as how well SF polled in the Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown local elections, you can be sure they'll tell RBB to stick his deal up his arse. This will split the left-wing vote, and could easily see RBB lose his seat and, shudder, open the door for Gilmore to scrape in. I would have no love for RBB, but I openly despise that poisonous, pompous dwarf Gilmore and I'd love to see his face when the returning officer announces:

"We will now eliminate the next candidate with the lowest amount of votes and distribute their transfers. That is Eamon Gilmore. Thank you."

sid waddell wrote: »

If Sinn Fein are not in government after the next election, that will likely mean a FG/FF coalition, and Sinn Fein's support will continue to grow, meaning they will likely be in a position to become the largest party and lead a government at the election after next.

A FG/FF coalition in 2016 would likely be abolutely toxic electorally to both parties and result in both of them suffering heavily electoral losses at the following election.

I wonder... see, if the economy continues to recover, if employment continues to rise, if if if if if... If a lot of things happen and if the country starts to get back to some semblance of normality. If the government actually treats the public like human beings and so on... it's a hard one to call.

I also said earlier that austerity could become far worse if Enda (or just FG basically) got in again. While that could very easily happen, if it is only ramped up for the first two years of the next term, and then for the last years of the term it is scaled back... who knows.

It is a tough one to predict, due to chaos theory, in that anything could happen in the next few years. Hell, some farmer out Wesht could strike oil and we'll become an oil rich nation and it'll be all rosy until the United States Marine Corps arrive to topple our Dear Leader and lead to armed rebellion across the country.

Or Mother Russia could nuke Western Europe. Or the North Koreans could start a war with China. Or Enda Kenny could grow a brain.

Who knows what the future holds?!

DazMarz · 02-11-2014 3:02pm

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Although they would need to be a bit schizo to go on the water marches and be planning on voting FG/LB next time out.

A lot of people will vote Independent at the next GE. It will be a very good year for Indo's.

My name is URL · 02-11-2014 3:05pm

twowheelsgood wrote: »

Even though a FF/FG coalition is a better fit than almost any other (ignoring FF recent past) it is the least likely to happen.

Why do you say that? I'd wager that they'd jump into bed with each other before SF

And hopefully they do. No better way to decimate a junior party.

sid waddell · 02-11-2014 3:06pm

rozeboosje wrote: »

Oh, don't get me started on the quality of Irish politicians. But there is a difference between the shameless opportunism of parties such as FF, FG and yes, even Labour, and the populism that a party like SF likes to run with. Still, at least you guys don't have someone like Geert Wilders to contend with.

[shudder]

Fine Gael, the party who were going to burn the bondholders and fix the health system.

Labour, who told us that it would be their way or Frankfurt's way.

Fianna Fail, who signed the IMF deal under which Irish Water was set up and water charges were brought in, and who now claim they're against it.

I really don't see much difference, except that the populism of FG. FF and Labour has already been proven to be a sham whereas Sinn Fein's hasn't.

Disillusionment with establishment political parties is at an all-time high everywhere in Europe. As I've already said, every attack from Fine Gael and Enda Kenny and the Denis 'Brien media only strengthens Sinn Fein.

rockatansky · 02-11-2014 3:06pm

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Although they would need to be a bit schizo to go on the water marches and be planning on voting FG/LB next time out.

You'd be surprised. 20% of the electorate would like to see Fianna Fail back in power, what does that tell you!

michael999999 · 02-11-2014 3:08pm

rockatansky wrote: »

You'd be surprised. 20% of the electorate would like to see Fianna Fail back in power, what does that tell you!

The building trade is picking up and they need planning permission?

Scofflaw · 02-11-2014 3:09pm

DazMarz wrote: »

A lot of people will vote Independent at the next GE. It will be a very good year for Indo's.

If not so much for the Indo's, particularly the Sunday one.

cordially,
Scofflaw

DazMarz · 02-11-2014 3:10pm

Scofflaw wrote: »

If not so much for the Indo's, particularly the Sunday one.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Wheh wheh wheh...

alastair · 02-11-2014 3:10pm

sid waddell wrote: »

If Sinn Fein are not in government after the next election, that will likely mean a FG/FF coalition, and Sinn Fein's support will continue to grow, meaning they will likely be in a position to become the largest party and lead a government at the election after next.

A FG/FF coalition in 2016 would likely be abolutely toxic electorally to both parties and result in both of them suffering heavily electoral losses at the following election.

Even if SF became the largest party in the Dail, they still need to find enough coalition partners to garner 79 seats. They don't have that, whereas FG, or, less likely, FF do.

sid waddell · 02-11-2014 3:12pm

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Although they would need to be a bit schizo to go on the water marches and be planning on voting FG/LB next time out.

I remember a feature on PrimeTime before the 2011 election, they were interviewing people in Leitrim. One woman in her 20s talked at length about the need for change, change was her big buzzword and she mentioned it several times. When asked how she'd vote, she said "I'll probably be crucified for this but....I'm going to vote Fianna Fail". Plenty of these type of people exist.

alastair · 02-11-2014 3:12pm

sid waddell wrote: »

I really don't see much difference, except that the populism of FG. FF and Labour has already been proven to be a sham whereas Sinn Fein hadn't.

Except in their record of governance in NI, where they have.

maccored · 02-11-2014 3:14pm

are we talking about financial aspects that the parties in the north have no control over again, or can you please supply an example?

alastair wrote: »

Except in their record of governance in NI, where they have.

guinnessdrinker · 02-11-2014 3:15pm

alastair wrote: »

Even if SF became the largest party in the Dail, they still need to find enough coalition partners to garner 79 seats. They don't have that, whereas FG, or, less likely, FF do.

The way the polls are going currently, a FF/FG coalition will not secure enough seats to from a government.

PhilipJ · 02-11-2014 3:18pm

That is a scary analysis and quite right too I think personally.

DazMarz wrote: »

As the Irish Water debacle and every other thing drags on further, I am becoming more and more disillusioned with Fine Gael.

I was never a Fine Gael voter. I never liked them. I never voted for them. But... Until relatively recently, I thought Fine Gael were doing a pretty OK job in running the show, given the shíte hand they were dealt in 2011... cleaning up Fianna Fáil's mess. But then... between Garda whistleblowers, Shattergate, McAnulty, Irish Water, etc. etc. ETC... I'm not so sure.

The biggest one is Irish Water. If Fine Gael and Co. wanted to start a revolution, I don't think they could have done a better job. The country is like a powder keg at the moment. The government could collapse and a General Election could be called within the next few months, never mind in March 2016.

It is also worth remembering this: Enda Kenny would sell his wife, daughter, mother and grandmother up the river in a heartbeat to secure a second term in power for Fine Gael. It has never been done before, and would the bould Enda ever love to go down in the history books as the first Fine Gael Taoiseach to win back-to-back elections. So, you can be damn sure that in order to do so, Kenny will do anything and everything to try and curry the voters' favour in between now and the next GE.

And... final thought. Right now, austerity measures are bad, no doubt. But Enda Kenny is looking into a General Election in about 18 months' time. He cannot go overboard with the austerity, or risk losing power, like has happened to Fine Gael so many times in the past. But... if Kenny is still Taoiseach after the 2016(?) General Election... Austerity? You ain't seen nothing yet! He'll rip into the Irish populace with more austerity, because why worry? No more elections for a while, let's grease em up and fúck em!

I'm actually more scared now of Enda getting back in than I am of Sinn Féin getting in. And that is saying something. :eek:

twowheelsgood · 02-11-2014 3:18pm

My name is URL wrote: »

Why do you say that? I'd wager that they'd jump into bed with each other before SF

And hopefully they do. No better way to decimate a junior party.

It simply isn't a runner, not for any good reasons mind.

FF would prefer SF to FG. As indeed would FG. SF don't want to dance at all with anyone IMO.

It will be Martin's last (only) chance at Taoiseach so he might be keener than most in his party to go with FG (plus they would hate to be out for two terms) but I still think it won't happen.

And I don't think FF are for decimating. If they survived 2008-2011 (and prospered!) I don't think they can be killed.

dave ireland · 02-11-2014 3:18pm

FF are very quit these days,,,

Sierra Oscar · 02-11-2014 3:20pm

dave ireland wrote: »

FF are very quit these days,,,

Playing the long game, looking forward to the SF / FG government.

poteen o hooley wrote: »

Finny Gale are DOOMED DOOMED DOOMED!!!

Only a matter of time before gov collapses.

I still can't really see the government collapsing given the huge majority that they have. Why would they call an election now, surely they are better off holding out and allowing the economy recover? Although the coalition must be very worried that the last budget has not satisfied the public. If they had handled the Irish Water crisis properly then things could be very different now.

The only way I can see the government collapsing is if Labour call an end to Irish Water which would cause a snap election in the hope that they will get a bounce in support. Risky strategy through considering there was no bounce following the budget.

sid waddell · 02-11-2014 3:23pm

alastair wrote: »

Even if SF became the largest party in the Dail, they still need to find enough coalition partners to garner 79 seats. They don't have that, whereas FG, or, less likely, FF do.

A FG/FF coalition would likely result in a situation where FG and FF then don't have enough seats to form another coalition between them at the election after next.

It would damage FG, but FF stand to lose the most from that as they are more vulnerable to Sinn Fein taking their traditional vote.

FF will do everything in their power to avoid going in as a junior partner to FG. You cannot underestimate the weight of tradition and historical force that permeates the mindsets of the membership of FF. Going into government as the junior partner to FG would be the ultimate humiliation for them.

Your assertion that Sinn Fein would find it difficult to find coalition partners is in my view naive and wishful thinking.

alastair · 02-11-2014 3:25pm

maccored wrote: »

are we talking about financial aspects that the parties in the north have no control over again, or can you please supply an example?

The government in NI have control over aspects of the economy and spending, and it's not been pretty.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-29562432

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/ni-executive-set-to-bust-budget-over-282m-cuts-requirement-1.1949233

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/regional/executive-s-fiscal-dishonesty-coming-home-to-roost-agnew-1-6392227

Dan_Solo · 02-11-2014 3:26pm

DazMarz wrote: »

A lot of people will vote Independent at the next GE. It will be a very good year for Indo's.

True. I'd prefer more independents too.

Dan_Solo · 02-11-2014 3:28pm

alastair wrote: »

The government in NI have control over aspects of the economy and spending, and it's not been pretty.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/ni-executive-set-to-bust-budget-over-282m-cuts-requirement-1.1949233

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/regional/executive-s-fiscal-dishonesty-coming-home-to-roost-agnew-1-6392227

"Aspects"? You're fooling nobody with you legalese word selection there alastair. They're not in sole power. End of.

alastair · 02-11-2014 3:30pm

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

The way the polls are going currently, a FF/FG coalition will not secure enough seats to from a government.

That's neither true, or required, to ensure SF wouldn't form a part of the next coalition.

dave ireland · 02-11-2014 3:31pm

I wonder what would it be like with no FF or FG in power at all, They have been there since 1922 in some shape or form,

The brown envelope factory will close down for a start "LOL"

Phoebas · 02-11-2014 3:31pm

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

The way the polls are going currently, a FF/FG coalition will not secure enough seats to from a government.

There are some dangers in trying to translate poll findings into election results.
1. We are a long way out from the election and things can change drastically between then and now - in any direction.
2. Polls ask about first preferences (at least this poll does) and transfers play a big part in elections.
3. Poll results can be skewed for parties who don't have strong presence across all constituencies (LAB, SF to a lesser extent and the minor parties) because no matter what the poll says, if you aren't running a credible candidate, you can't win.
4. Polls that show a very strong showing for INDs can be skewed for reason 2 and 3.

alastair · 02-11-2014 3:32pm

Dan_Solo wrote: »

"Aspects"? You're fooling nobody with you legalese word selection there alastair. They're not in sole power. End of.

They wouldn't be in sole power here either - so what's their record in NI? It's as articulated by those links. They had to go cap in hand back to Westminster because they couldn't keep within budget. The record of financial mismanagement in government services in NI makes us look good!

Silentcorner · 02-11-2014 3:34pm

dave ireland wrote: »

FF are very quit these days,,,

The first thing FF did in opposition was enforce a ban on corporate funding.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/ireland/News/Irish_News/article621699.ece

In doing so ensuring that no new political movement could gather the massive finances it takes to erect a nationwide organisation, I am very surprised at how this change in legislation is seldom if ever mentioned by the established media.

We have a very clear message from all 4 corners of this republic that the electorate is looking for alternatives, but the only alternative to establish themselves is SF, possibly the most cash rich political party in the state.

FF know, that all they have to do is keep a fairly low profile, in the knowledge that they have made it extremely difficult for a new political movement to emerge.

FF threw the Irish people to the wolves and locked the gate behind them.

alastair · 02-11-2014 3:35pm

Phoebas wrote: »

There are some dangers in trying to translate poll findings into election results.
1. We are a long way out from the election and things can change drastically between then and now - in any direction.
2. Polls ask about first preferences (at least this poll does) and transfers play a big part in elections.
3. Poll results can be skewed for parties who don't have strong presence across all constituencies (LAB, SF to a lesser extent and the minor parties) because no matter what the poll says, if you aren't running a credible candidate, you can't win.
4. Polls that show a very strong showing for INDs can be skewed for reason 2 and 3.

And even if you assumed the poll results did equate to a general election result, a FG/FF coalition would provide a majority, without a third coalition partner (just about).

Sierra Oscar · 02-11-2014 3:49pm

dave ireland wrote: »

I wonder what would it be like with no FF or FG in power at all, They have been there since 1922 in some shape or form,

The brown envelope factory will close down for a start "LOL"

It will be fascinating. Those that are voting for SF and certain independents will be hoping for radical change. I am not too sure if they will be able to deliver on the radical change that some of their supporters expect. FG & Labour don't seem to have been able to deliver the change that many people had hoped for.

I do think that both FG & Labour had good intentions when entering government. However they could not deliver on the high expectations that people had, and they only have themselves to blame considering they promised things that they knew they could not deliver on during GE11. Sinn Féin are also promising stuff that they know they just simply cannot deliver on in government. The 75% of the electorate that do not support them will be expecting them to compromise in government, while their core supporters will expect really radical change should they enter government. It could end up being quite explosive.

Fascinating times ahead in Irish politics as our party system goes through its first major change since the Civil War. Lets just hope we don't have to endure a second one.

Scofflaw · 02-11-2014 3:53pm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

It will be fascinating. Those that are voting for SF and certain independents will be hoping for radical change. I am not too sure if they will be able to deliver on the radical change that some of their supporters expect. FG & Labour don't seem to have been able to deliver the change that many people had hoped for.

I do think that both FG & Labour had good intentions when entering government. However they could not deliver on the high expectations that people had, and they only have themselves to blame considering they promised things that they knew they could not deliver on during GE11. Sinn Féin are also promising stuff that they know they just simply cannot deliver on in government. The 75% of the electorate that do not support them will be expecting them to compromise in government, while their core supporters will expect really radical change should they enter government. It could end up being quite explosive.

Fascinating times ahead in Irish politics as our party system goes through its first major change since the Civil War. Lets just hope we don't have to endure a second one.

People do act as if Ministers simply wave wands and the desired things happen, and it doesn't work that way. And any party that gets into government under the existing system by definition has an interest in the continuance of that system

However, I would say that of all the parties SF are the most likely not to use the existing apparatus of eighteenth century government Ireland has retained.

cordially,
Scofflaw

alastair · 02-11-2014 3:56pm

Scofflaw wrote: »

However, I would say that of all the parties SF are the most likely not to use the existing apparatus of eighteenth century government Ireland has retained.

Which aspects are you referring to?

Yarf Yarf · 02-11-2014 3:59pm

As sorry as I feel for Maria Cahill, the attempts to politicize her case and use her as a political pawn were painfully transparent and I'm glad it is seemingly backfiring. I think most people are just sick of hearing the same ****e about cases that happened years and years ago and, frankly, don't really have any bearing on the day to day lives of people in the Republic today. I feel for Maria Cahill, but this whole circus has been a feeble attempt at diverting attention away from relevant issues of the here and now and it should be exposed for what it is.

dave ireland · 02-11-2014 4:10pm

Yarf Yarf wrote: »

As sorry as I feel for Maria Cahill, the attempts to politicize her case and use her as a political pawn were painfully transparent and I'm glad it is seemingly backfiring. I think most people are just sick of hearing the same ****e about cases that happened years and years ago and, frankly, don't really have any bearing on the day to day lives of people in the Republic today. I feel for Maria Cahill, but this whole circus has been a feeble attempt at diverting attention away from relevant issues of the here and now and it should be exposed for what it is.

Yes I thought the same but giving the nature of the subject was unwilling to mention it,,

twowheelsgood · 02-11-2014 4:12pm

Yarf Yarf wrote: »

As sorry as I feel for Maria Cahill, the attempts to politicize her case and use her as a political pawn were painfully transparent and I'm glad it is seemingly backfiring.

That attributes a fairly noble interpretation to those sampled in this poll. And what you say may be the case. (I’m not sure if it has been noted on thread but Adams personal satisfaction is down quite a bit, suggesting the Cahill story is having an impact on him rather than on SF)

A less benign interpretation might be found by looking at the likes of Lowry and some FF types who it would seem, by accident or design to have reached a state where criticisms from outside only serve to galvanize rather than alienate their support.

I genuinely do not think any criticisms levelled at Adams, valid or not, will have an impact. He seems to have acquired Bertie’s Teflon coating of 15 years ago.

Sinn Féin the most popular party in latest poll (mod warnings in OP)

Comments