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Ireland equals DOG UNFRIENDLY country

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    #122
    Tootle
    Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭Tootle


    Jinxi wrote: »
    Tootle
    As stated she stopped to look at the other dog bowling over my pup. She had more than enough room to run around me and the dogs.
    As you said EVERYONE has the right to be in that space. As for tripping she wasn't exactly sprinting and NO ONE has the right to roar at me or anyone.
    There is a public running track in the town. There is no dog's only park.
    IMHO she chose to roar at me because the owner of the other dog had a rottie on a leash and was a big guy.
    Apologies if I mis-interpreted that it wasn't clear she had seen what happened. Perhaps she was rude to you but its very hard to judge a situation like that. I sometimes dont know what to so when I see dogs, stop or keep going. Sometimes if you run on they start running after you and barking at your ankles. Speed doesn't alwasys come into it. She could see the other owner had their dog on a lead and you didn't. I'm just trying to get you to see it from her side. Your dog was the one jumping on her not the rottie. You dont have to have a phobia of dogs to be nerous of them when running.
    I still dont think banning runners from public parks and sending them off to the gym or to run circles around a track is the answer. Its the other dog owner you should be venting your anger.


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    #123
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    Zapperzy wrote: »

    What makes Ireland a dog unfriendly country is what people have been saying all along in this thread. Dogs (no matter how well behaved) are generally not allowed to go to the shops with their owner or sit outside a cafe/restaurant/bar while on a lead. As another poster pointed out, in france it's a regular thing for dogs to accompany their owners into restaurants/cafes/bars but here it's not allowed. This is what makes Ireland a dog unfriendly country when you compare it to countries in mainland europe.

    I can't say for France, but German shops usually have signs outside telling owners if dogs are or are not allowed into the shop. Most shops I can think of will not allow dogs, especially shops selling food.

    draussen_bleiben.jpg
    You can bring your dog to sit outside in restaurants and bars with you, but again very few owners will allow them inside.
    As I understand, that's up to the owners here as well.

    I think the main difference between here and much of the rest of Europe is the level of dog ownership. There seem to be a lot more dogs around here than on the continent.
    Mind you, I've got quite a strong phobia of dogs, having been bitten when I was little, and seeing the number of dogs here, especially those walking around by themselves and unattended, freaked me out no end.


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    #124
    sparkling sea
    Registered Users Posts: 1,410 ✭✭✭sparkling sea


    Jinxi wrote: »
    Just came home from the park today. I was walking my 4 month old collie pup when we went onto the large green area. There were joggers about and I was literally reaching into my pocket to put her on a leash when another over-enthusiastic dog ran at her and she took off about 6 feet from me. The other dog ran of and Lilly looked around to try and find me. A jogger had stopped and my pup ran up and jumped up on her. She started screaming at me to control my f-ing dog and kept saying over and over how unfair it was.
    I couldn't even speak. I teared up(so unlike me) and was shaking.
    I walk her in the same park every day and everyone there walks their dogs off leash(unless restricted breeds or unfriendly dogs). I always put the leash on around joggers and children, but I really don't understand why if some one has such a phobia of dogs would they run in a public park full of them. I cannot bring my dog to a gym. She could run anywhere, but there is only one park in my town. She only screamed at me(and not the owner of the other dog who was hyper and aggressive).

    She may have been watching what happened and she may also have been afraid, either way your dog should not to able to jump up on her because you should be in full control of it. People don't ususally shout at other people unless something spooks them.

    I can't go to the park at all because people bring their dogs there but refuse to keep them on leads and this makes me very uncomfortable - and its fairly obvious that I am not the only person who is nervous.

    I think parks should be dog free zones, at least all people could use them, and not be inhibited from doing so by some dog owners.


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    #125
    ISDW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭ISDW


    sparkling sea wrote: »
    She may have been watching what happened and she may also have been afraid, either way your dog should not to able to jump up on her because you should be in full control of it. People don't ususally shout at other people unless something spooks them.

    I can't go to the park at all because people bring their dogs there but refuse to keep them on leads and this makes me very uncomfortable - and its fairly obvious that I am not the only person who is nervous.

    I think parks should be dog free zones, at least all people could use them, and not be inhibited from doing so by some dog owners.

    Well not all people, cos then dog owners couldn't.


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    #126
    Tootle
    Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭Tootle


    sparkling sea wrote: »
    She may have been watching what happened and she may also have been afraid, either way your dog should not to able to jump up on her because you should be in full control of it. People don't ususally shout at other people unless something spooks them.

    I can't go to the park at all because people bring their dogs there but refuse to keep them on leads and this makes me very uncomfortable - and its fairly obvious that I am not the only person who is nervous.

    I think parks should be dog free zones, at least all people could use them, and not be inhibited from doing so by some dog owners.

    I dont think the dogs or the runners should have to leave the park :rolleyes:.
    Can we please stop insisting that various groups leave the Public park. Maybe I should start declaring that children should not be allowed in the park. Dogs under control and cleaned up after, then everyone would be happy.


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    #127
    newdogowner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 30 ✭newdogowner


    Many thanks for all the replies and it certainly generated debate..i had to PM "average runner" because i was highly offended to be labelled "irresponsible"..i am simply fed up of being told dogs arent allowed.. we were travelling home from Cork and stopped into Kildare for a quick look and i was going to potter around with the little fella while my partner had a browse in the shops..i am a dedicated and responsible owner and always stop to greet children when they wish to pat him and i even go so far as to say I ensure the safety of an other persons child more so than the actual PARENTS themselves so GIVE ME A BREAK plse...am planning to go to a wedding in september (outside dublin)and we wish to bring our little dog but are stuggling to find a dog friendly B+B which allows us bring him...this is typical of ireland .....


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    #128
    Rigsby
    Registered Users Posts: 4,446 ✭✭✭Rigsby


    newdogowner wrote: »
    am planning to go to a wedding in september (outside dublin)and we wish to bring our little dog but are stuggling to find a dog friendly B+B which allows us bring him...

    Google "Dog friendly B+B's or Hotels Ireland". Should come up with a few. :)


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    #129
    lrushe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭lrushe


    newdogowner wrote: »
    am planning to go to a wedding in september (outside dublin)and we wish to bring our little dog but are stuggling to find a dog friendly B+B which allows us bring him...this is typical of ireland .....


    http://www.petchums.com/services/pet-friendly-hotels-and-resorts/


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    #130
    Jinxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 429 ✭✭Jinxi


    Don't mean to go OT but walking a dog on a leash(most breeds) will never match a dogs energy burn requirements. I still think parks coulds be zoned into dog friendly vs unfriendly areas for those with phobias etc. Even if it was relatively small, dogs playing together burns was more energy.


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    #131
    Bill2673
    Closed Accounts Posts: 749 ✭✭✭Bill2673


    I have a two year old child. Twice in the last month dogs have run up to him and jumped on him, in a friendly way, but still he was well scared. The first time was at the beach, a labrador, he screamed and screamed and it took me a good while to calm him down. The second time was in the street, I picked him up just was the dog was jumping on him. On this occasion, the owner smiled at me and said, "oh he's a bit nervous of dogs, is he?".....as if the problem was with my kid....

    It leads me to think, is the problem with the owners not with the dogs. (Some owneres, not all, obviously). The dog owners here seem to making the assumption "if the dog is well behaved, then what is the problem"....but dogs are only going to be well behaved if they are trained. How many of you have done this?

    We always had dogs in our family growing up, I'm very comfortable with them, always enjoy being with them.

    But not everyone is like that, such as my two year old. And for that reason its not acceptable, in my view, to be out with a dog without a leash. But a good portion of the dog owning population doesn't see it that way.

    (And thats before I even get into the dog crap debate & the many happy hours I have spent cleaning it off pram tyres).


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    #132
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I dont think we are dog unfriendly, more dog owner unfriendly . This is due to some bad owners. Its easier to say dogs are banned then have to clean up after an irresponsible owner. I wouldnt take it to heart .


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    #133
    lrushe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭lrushe


    Bill2673 wrote: »
    I have a two year old child. Twice in the last month dogs have run up to him and jumped on him, in a friendly way, but still he was well scared. The first time was at the beach, a labrador, he screamed and screamed and it took me a good while to calm him down. The second time was in the street, I picked him up just was the dog was jumping on him. On this occasion, the owner smiled at me and said, "oh he's a bit nervous of dogs, is he?".....as if the problem was with my kid....

    It leads me to think, is the problem with the owners not with the dogs. (Some owneres, not all, obviously). The dog owners here seem to making the assumption "if the dog is well behaved, then what is the problem"....but dogs are only going to be well behaved if they are trained. How many of you have done this?

    We always had dogs in our family growing up, I'm very comfortable with them, always enjoy being with them.

    But not everyone is like that, such as my two year old. And for that reason its not acceptable, in my view, to be out with a dog without a leash. But a good portion of the dog owning population doesn't see it that way.

    (And thats before I even get into the dog crap debate & the many happy hours I have spent cleaning it off pram tyres).

    I certainly see your point and would never allow my dog to jump on anyone let alone a child and yes all 3 of my dogs are fully obedienced trained. However do you know how many times I've had irresponsible parents allow their children to run up and try to grab my dogs, my Chihuahua especially, all the while smiling at me like I am supposed to think its cute that their child is trying to put my dog in a dead grip.
    There are 2 sides to this story but I think it boils down to people not respecting other peoples boundaries.


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    #134
    Bill2673
    Closed Accounts Posts: 749 ✭✭✭Bill2673


    Jinxi wrote: »
    Just came home from the park today. I was walking my 4 month old collie pup when we went onto the large green area. There were joggers about and I was literally reaching into my pocket to put her on a leash when another over-enthusiastic dog ran at her and she took off about 6 feet from me. The other dog ran of and Lilly looked around to try and find me. A jogger had stopped and my pup ran up and jumped up on her. She started screaming at me to control my f-ing dog and kept saying over and over how unfair it was.
    I couldn't even speak. I teared up(so unlike me) and was shaking.
    I walk her in the same park every day and everyone there walks their dogs off leash(unless restricted breeds or unfriendly dogs). I always put the leash on around joggers and children, but I really don't understand why if some one has such a phobia of dogs would they run in a public park full of them. I cannot bring my dog to a gym. She could run anywhere, but there is only one park in my town. She only screamed at me(and not the owner of the other dog who was hyper and aggressive).


    First of all: recognise that a person running/ jogging is expending a lot of effort, might be in a race, might be trying to get a certain time in the course....I know when I'm running I get thick when anyone or anything runs out in front of me. Wrongly. But it happens because the adrenaline is up. Its a chemical thing.

    Second, dogs should be on a lead. Its the law. The person running knows this. They probably aren't thick because the dog approached them; rather because they know your dog should be on a lead, you know your dog should be on a lead, but the dog isnt on the lead. It is an annoyance in the same way that people who throw beer cans away in the park are an annoyance, in the same way that people who break red lights are an annoyance, that people who smoke upstairs on the bus are an annoyance.

    No whether thats a fair law or not is another story, and we could yada yada yada about it all day. But the law it is nonetheless.


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    #135
    Jelly2
    Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭Jelly2


    Once again, let's be reminded that it is not the law that a dog has to be on the lead. However, they must be under the control of their handler at all times. It seems quite apparent that the dog in this case was not under the control of the handler, and she was therefore in the wrong.


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    #136
    andreac
    Registered Users Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭andreac


    Bill2673 wrote: »
    First of all: recognise that a person running/ jogging is expending a lot of effort, might be in a race, might be trying to get a certain time in the course....I know when I'm running I get thick when anyone or anything runs out in front of me. Wrongly. But it happens because the adrenaline is up. Its a chemical thing.

    Second, dogs should be on a lead. Its the law.
    No whether thats a fair law or not is another story, and we could yada yada yada about it all day. But the law it is nonetheless.[/    QUOTE]


    You seriously need to get your facts straight, because it most certainly is not the law to have all dogs on a lead. There are certain breeds on the restricted breeds list that must be on a lead alright, but in general dogs do NOT have to be on a lead by law. They do however have to be under effective control but this does not necessarily mean on a lead so please refrain from posting information which is incorrect.

    Please see link below on control of dogs act:
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1986/en/act/pub/0032/sec0009.html#zza32y1986s9


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    #137
    Jinxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 429 ✭✭Jinxi


    If you read my origional post you will see that

    a)the jogger had plenty of room to jog around the situation and she had in fact stopped herself as she was freaked out about the other dog who was being aggressive sort-of

    b) my dog was under my control until the interference of the other dog. I was in the process of putting the leash on, simply because of the joggers.


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    #138
    Bill2673
    Closed Accounts Posts: 749 ✭✭✭Bill2673


    andreac wrote: »
    Bill2673 wrote: »
    First of all: recognise that a person running/ jogging is expending a lot of effort, might be in a race, might be trying to get a certain time in the course....I know when I'm running I get thick when anyone or anything runs out in front of me. Wrongly. But it happens because the adrenaline is up. Its a chemical thing.

    Second, dogs should be on a lead. Its the law.
    No whether thats a fair law or not is another story, and we could yada yada yada about it all day. But the law it is nonetheless.[/QUOTE]


    You seriously need to get your facts straight, because it most certainly is not the law to have all dogs on a lead. There are certain breeds on the restricted breeds list that must be on a lead alright, but in general dogs do NOT have to be on a lead by law. They do however have to be under effective control but this does not necessarily mean on a lead so please refrain from posting information which is incorrect.

    Please see link below on control of dogs act:
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1986/en/act/pub/0032/sec0009.html#zza32y1986s9


    Fair enough, I stand corrected.

    (Although its hard to see how a dog can be under control if its not on a leash or being carried).


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    #139
    Bill2673
    Closed Accounts Posts: 749 ✭✭✭Bill2673


    Jinxi wrote: »
    If you read my origional post you will see that

    a)the jogger had plenty of room to jog around the situation and she had in fact stopped herself as she was freaked out about the other dog who was being aggressive sort-of

    b) my dog was under my control until the interference of the other dog. I was in the process of putting the leash on, simply because of the joggers.


    Why did she have a go at you if the other dog was the problem?


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    #140
    Jinxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 429 ✭✭Jinxi


    Bill2673 wrote: »
    Why did she have a go at you if the other dog was the problem?

    That was my origional question? The "owner" of the other dog was a dog walker. He had three dogs, one was a rottie on leash. My 4month old pup made the actual physical contact with her. I was nearer and an easier target. Looking back now, her reaction was sssooo OTT that she must have had a phobia. I feel sorry for her(but not as sorry as I felt for myself at the time).
    Again, back on topic, I cannot see why there are not zones in parks for dog walkers.


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    #141
    adser53
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭adser53


    Bill2673 wrote: »
    Fair enough, I stand corrected.

    (Although its hard to see how a dog can be under control if its not on a leash or being carried).

    Under control means being properly trained (especially regarding recall)


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    #142
    CrowdedHouse
    Registered Users Posts: 6,811 ✭✭✭CrowdedHouse


    For the dog owners..

    I'd just like to give a plug for the Kylemore Pass Hotel in Connemara...dogs are very welcome here.
    We were there for the long weekend,nothing too fancy a clean comfortable small hotel where the doggies can stay in the room with you.Many of the rooms have direct access outside should you need to take out the dog.
    The first night we were there we were going to the bar for a drink,instead of leaving the dogs in the room(in case they'd make a racket on their own in a strange place) we put them in the car,as soon as we got to the bar we were told that the dogs can come in too.
    Makes a nice change and of course Connemara is beautiful

    Also in the same neighbourhood dogs are allowed into Kylemore Abbey and Gardens(although not into the actual Abbey itself)

    Seven Worlds will Collide



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    #143
    Jelly2
    Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭Jelly2


    CrowdedHouse wrote: »
    For the dog owners..

    I'd just like to give a plug for the Kylemore Pass Hotel in Connemara...dogs are very welcome here.
    We were there for the long weekend,nothing too fancy a clean comfortable small hotel where the doggies can stay in the room with you.Many of the rooms have direct access outside should you need to take out the dog.
    The first night we were there we were going to the bar for a drink,instead of leaving the dogs in the room(in case they'd make a racket on their own in a strange place) we put them in the car,as soon as we got to the bar we were told that the dogs can come in too.
    Also in the same neighbourhood dogs are allowed into Kylemore Abbey and Gardens(although not into the actual Abbey itself)

    While we're in the area:), I know that the management of the Leenane Hotel in nearby Killary Harbour is quite happy to have dogs stay in the rooms of the hotel. They also allow them to sit with their owners at the tables and chairs in front of the hotel. They serve food and drink there, and it's a lovely place to sit and admire the gorgeous view in the summer. Highly recommended.


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    #144
    Jelly2
    Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭Jelly2


    To Dominique, the French lady going to the Giant's Causeway!
    A while ago, we stayed with our dogs at a B&B near there (they were allowed in the bedroom). It was called Seaview B&B, and the owner was Mabel. I think that we got the details from googling, but the B&B is registered anyway, so it should be easy to find the phone number if you are interested. It was very comfortable and the dogs got on great there!


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    #145
    Rigsby
    Registered Users Posts: 4,446 ✭✭✭Rigsby


    adser53 wrote: »
    Under control means being properly trained (especially regarding recall)

    "Under control" means just that. Even an untrained dog is under control when on a leash, though I agree that a dog should be properly trained.


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    #146
    adser53
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭adser53


    I was responding to bill2673 who said he failed to see how a dog off leash was ever "under control" unless it was being carried. off leash dogs can only be considered "under control" if they are trained and have good recall. if your dog doesn't meet that criteria then the only way to abide by the law is to have them on a leash as otherwise they aren't under control


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    #147
    Bill2673
    Closed Accounts Posts: 749 ✭✭✭Bill2673


    adser53 wrote: »
    I was responding to bill2673 who said he failed to see how a dog off leash was under control unless it was being carried. in my opinion off leash dogs can only be considered "under control" if they are trained and have good recall. if your dog doesn't meet that criteria then the only way to abide by the law is to have them on a leash.

    Point taken, but is it not a theoretical one if it is the case that most dogs are not trained. (Maybe I'm wrong, but my guess is that 95% of family pet dogs have not been formally trained).


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    #148
    adser53
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭adser53


    I wouldn't say 95% aren't trained but it is true that there are a lot of untrained dogs and bad owners out there. these are the ones that ruin it for the rest of us


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    #149
    Bill2673
    Closed Accounts Posts: 749 ✭✭✭Bill2673


    Maybe what is needed therefore, in order to get a licence, is that all pet dogs must be formally trained? A bit like the drivers licence.

    This would give non-dog owners more comfort; and would cut out a lot of owners for whom a dog is for Christmas not for life, and such like.


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    #150
    adser53
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭adser53


    i do agree there should be something to promote responsible ownership and training of owners as well as dogs. i think some countries already have something like that. educating people is a much better alternative to solving the problems rather than taking the easy options like breed specific legislation (which clearly doesnt work) aswell as harsher laws on people who are irresponsible owners.


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    #151
    Tootle
    Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭Tootle


    All the legislation in the world won't solve the problem unless there is someone to enforce it. As is, they don't even enforce the cleaning up of dog poop. I totally agree with education.


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