Connacht Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Part II

The Lost Sheep · 26-07-2015 4:50pm

Zzippy wrote: »

There are also plenty of occasions where players are clearly offside and ARs are not calling it. Teams know it, and use it to their advantage when defending. It's very frustrating to watch. If the offside rule was properly enforced in the Pro12 the league would be much better to watch with more attacking rugby.

When you say properly enforced do you mean every single instance of offside to be called by officials? As shelflife says you have to look at materiality. Does an infringement directly influence proceeding? If not play on

Zzippy · 26-07-2015 4:52pm

Shelflife wrote: »

True Zippy but it boils down to materiality as well, if a player creeps up on the touchline side of a ruck when the ball is always going back infield then its not material, dame way if a prop is a foot offside in midfield does it really make a difference ?

You can find a pen at every breakdown if you look hard enough, but if you did that it would simply destroy the game.

I'd call it material when a whole backline is standing a yard ahead of the gainline at every ruck, denying the attacking team space to run at them. It's very obvious sometimes when you're level with the gainline looking across the pitch. Not looking for a raft of penalties, but if the reffing team were strict on it in the opening minutes of the game it would give teams something to think about and we might see a more open game.

Stan27 · 26-07-2015 10:37pm

What are peoples predicted 1st team this year?

Would cooney push kiaran m, I think yes but will make KM a better player.
Any news on SOB2.0?

Bazzo · 26-07-2015 11:39pm

Stan27 wrote: »

What are peoples predicted 1st team this year?

Would cooney push kiaran m, I think yes but will make KM a better player.
Any news on SOB2.0?

I think the only real spots in contention at the moment are

8: McKeon, Masterson, Naoupu
9: Marmion, Cooney
10: Ronaldson, Carty
15: TOH, Leader

Personally from that list I'd go for Masterson, probably Marmion although Cooney has been playing very well for us, Ronaldson, though I'd make sure Jack got some game time to keep him coming along and on current form TOH at full back, though I'd be perfectly happy for Leader to start either.

Honestly I'd be happy enough for any of those players to start in their position. The one I feel most strongly about would be Ronaldson, though Jack has certainly come along.

wp_rathead · 27-07-2015 12:04am

Bazzo wrote: »

I think the only real spots in contention at the moment are

8: McKeon, Masterson, Naoupu
9: Marmion, Cooney
10: Ronaldson, Carty
15: TOH, Leader

Personally from that list I'd go for Masterson, probably Marmion although Cooney has been playing very well for us, Ronaldson, though I'd make sure Jack got some game time to keep him coming along and on current form TOH at full back, though I'd be perfectly happy for Leader to start either.

Honestly I'd be happy enough for any of those players to start in their position. The one I feel most strongly about would be Ronaldson, though Jack has certainly come along.

Second Row is pretty competitive as well between Marshall, Roux and Muldowney - and Dillane waiting in the wings

b.gud · 27-07-2015 8:12am

Bazzo wrote: »

I think the only real spots in contention at the moment are

8: McKeon, Masterson, Naoupu
9: Marmion, Cooney
10: Ronaldson, Carty
15: TOH, Leader

Personally from that list I'd go for Masterson, probably Marmion although Cooney has been playing very well for us, Ronaldson, though I'd make sure Jack got some game time to keep him coming along and on current form TOH at full back, though I'd be perfectly happy for Leader to start either.

Honestly I'd be happy enough for any of those players to start in their position. The one I feel most strongly about would be Ronaldson, though Jack has certainly come along.

Pretty much the same for me. Will be interesting to see how Nepia gets on at 7 and see will he push Jake for a starting place, wither way will be great to have a proper 7 back on the pitch. I hope Masterson doesn't end up being a utility sub which could easily happen given how well he covers the back row.

RobbieRuns · 27-07-2015 8:29am

Ronaldson is way to injury prone for me and Jack will get more time at 10. Masterson will have a good season. The other player that I expect to step up this year ( lack of injury permitting) is Ultan Dillane.

b.gud · 28-07-2015 9:16am

There are a few doubts over Cian Healys fitness going around this morning. I hope these are just rumours and he's back and fit for the WC but if he isn't Dennis could have a good shot at getting a chance to impress during the warm ups.

ouncer · 28-07-2015 11:47pm

RobbieRuns wrote: »

Ronaldson is way to injury prone for me and Jack will get more time at 10. Masterson will have a good season. The other player that I expect to step up this year ( lack of injury permitting) is Ultan Dillane.

Jack will open channels for opposing teams to break our back line. He is not built enough to do otherwise. Craig breaks lines going the other direction. Two totally different players.

ouncer · 29-07-2015 1:59am

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

When you say properly enforced do you mean every single instance of offside to be called by officials? As shelflife says you have to look at materiality. Does an infringement directly influence proceeding? If not play on

'Materiality'. Never heard the expression in a rugby context before. Not even from George hook

gally74 · 29-07-2015 7:01pm

ouncer wrote: »

Jack will open channels for opposing teams to break our back line. He is not built enough to do otherwise. Craig breaks lines going the other direction. Two totally different players.

Pity pat Hughes from Sligo stepped away, he used to start ahead of Carty.

its_phil · 29-07-2015 9:26pm

gally74 wrote: »

Pity pat Hughes from Sligo stepped away, he used to start ahead of Carty.

For what team?

The Lost Sheep · 29-07-2015 9:40pm

ouncer wrote: »

'Materiality'. Never heard the expression in a rugby context before. Not even from George hook

Materiality to the laws... ie what material effect did an offence have on the side with the ball (playing advantage is a separate topic). Did what the miscreant do have any effect on reducing play options, reduce tactical or territorial alternatives etc ?
Also you need to bear in mind that if you let a non-material offence go unpunished, what might future impact of letting it go be, etc.

For example : if the blind side defending flanker is always slipping his bind and the attacking side go open every time, is it worth pinging him? Probably not.
But a quiet word at next line out etc.
But he does it all match and then again from scrum in 22m and attacking s/half & # 8 go blind and he makes an early tackle - yes of course you ping him, but if you haven't previously told him, "seen the early break but wasn't material. so let it go, hence my warning to you at line-out". he and coach would have some (self-perceived) case for you being inconsistent.

gally74 wrote: »

Pity pat Hughes from Sligo stepped away, he used to start ahead of Carty.

What age grade was he ahead of Carty?

smiley_face · 29-07-2015 11:27pm

This article says he quit after u20 as had to leave Connacht to go to college to be a teacher. Then Gaelic football for Sligo was offered to him and he hasn't looked back since.
Sounds like he had talent though.
He's still only in his early 20s, so not impossible to give it another go, but unlikely now...
http://www.thesun.ie/irishsol/homepage/sport/6550091/Decision-to-switch-codes-was-Black-White.html

ouncer · 30-07-2015 12:42am

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Materiality to the laws... ie what material effect did an offence have on the side with the ball (playing advantage is a separate topic). Did what the miscreant do have any effect on reducing play options, reduce tactical or territorial alternatives etc ?
Also you need to bear in mind that if you let a non-material offence go unpunished, what might future impact of letting it go be, etc.

For example : if the blind side defending flanker is always slipping his bind and the attacking side go open every time, is it worth pinging him? Probably not.
But a quiet word at next line out etc.
But he does it all match and then again from scrum in 22m and attacking s/half & # 8 go blind and he makes an early tackle - yes of course you ping him, but if you haven't previously told him, "seen the early break but wasn't material. so let it go, hence my warning to you at line-out". he and coach would have some (self-perceived) case for you being inconsistent.

What age grade was he ahead of Carty?

I get that officiating at matches is a thankless job no matter what sport. I get that you have the fans who simply jump on any possible situation. But there is the other side of the equation. Folks see games lost based on poor decisions by officials. And here (I think) is the crucial point. The winning and losing of a rugby game can be very dependent on the official. And note I say official singular. The linesman is simply a line judge in the pro12 league. The ballboy can do that job.

irishbucsfan · 30-07-2015 12:43am

ouncer wrote: »

The linesman is simply a line judge in the pro12 league. The ballboy can do that job.

First, they're not called a linesman, they're called an assistant ref, and second that's completely incorrect as they have plenty of input throughout games.

ouncer · 30-07-2015 12:52am

I chose to call them linesmen. For some reason it sounded more appropriate.

Shelflife · 30-07-2015 1:15am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

First, they're not called a linesman, they're called an assistant ref, and second that's completely incorrect as they have plenty of input throughout games.

Wasting your time , ouncer has made his mind up and isn't interested in facts.

A ballboy could do it is a pretty insulting remark to make considering the amount of unpaid time and effort that they make to get to that level.

Yes there are a few instances of bad decisions that influence a match by officials, but you will find that the majority of games are decided by the players and or coaches actions or inactions!

ouncer · 30-07-2015 1:41am

Your right and your wrong shelflife. Yes I have little time for the 'assistant referee'. This is not only at a pro12 level, it is also on an international level. Take the guy who crosses for a try. Nine times out of 10 the ref goes for a TV review. Likewise the assistant will never call anything close to the line. The assistant never calls a forward pass, the assistant never calls an obscure knock-on, the assistant never calls a collapsed scrum in their plain view where the referee is unsighted. Just take the latter instance. I have never once watched a rugby game where the assistant referee has called a collapsed scrum. If the referee cannot witness the infringement a reset is called for even though it is so blatant for folks who have a clear view (including the assistent referee).

So you would have me believe that the assistant referee has a function. Let me the suggest that if this is true the assistant referee flags an infringement rather than passing it over a comms link to the referee. It then can be clearly seen the importance (or lack of as the case may be)of the assistant referee. As currently stands there is little obvious to say the assistant referee is assisting the referee. So if they start flagging issues at least you can see their purpose.

And I apologize for the ballboy reference but while it is not clear and obvious the value of the position it is hard to credit the position.

irishbucsfan · 30-07-2015 2:02am

The ARs do all of that stuff ouncer, knockons/penalties/scrums/forward passes/offside. They call all of it. You're completely mistaken.

Hagz · 30-07-2015 2:22am

ARs regularly call knock-ons and collapsed scrums etc. I'm watching Canada vs. Samoa right now and the AR's have made calls on forward passes, tries and the scrums.

.ak · 30-07-2015 8:54am

Yeah and to be honest, unless you're watching it on TV, you'll never really know what the AR is calling, even if you do watch it on TV you'll know if the AR is mic'd up or if the ref indicates the call came from the sideline, but they call that stuff all the time.

b.gud · 30-07-2015 9:06am

I kinda don't want to bring this up because we need to, and most of us have, move past it. But if you want proof of the fact that ARs do much more than just "jude the line" then you need look no further than our most controversial loss of last year. Leighton Hodges was the AR away to Cardiff and Lloyd Linton was the ref. Linton was about to blow the game up when Hodges, the AR, told the ref to award a penalty against Connacht which he did and the rest is history.

ouncer · 30-07-2015 9:41am

b.gud wrote: »

I kinda don't want to bring this up because we need to, and most of us have, move past it. But if you want proof of the fact that ARs do much more than just "jude the line" then you need look no further than our most controversial loss of last year. Leighton Hodges was the AR away to Cardiff and Lloyd Linton was the ref. Linton was about to blow the game up when Hodges, the AR, told the ref to award a penalty against Connacht which he did and the rest is history.

I would call that case painful and unusual. I don't want to flog this issue to death. But I would say that if the AR is calling an infringement they should hold their flag out while informing the referee over the comms. The referee can then choose to accept or overrule the AR. The important thing is that now it becomes clear to all what infringements are being picked up and how they are being handled.

total former · 30-07-2015 9:53am

b.gud wrote: »

I kinda don't want to bring this up because we need to, and most of us have, move past it. But if you want proof of the fact that ARs do much more than just "jude the line" then you need look no further than our most controversial loss of last year. Leighton Hodges was the AR away to Cardiff and Lloyd Linton was the ref. Linton was about to blow the game up when Hodges, the AR, told the ref to award a penalty against Connacht which he did and the rest is history.

Posted five days ago:

total former wrote: »

I'm so confused. Wasn't Hodges the touch judge when he "robbed" Connacht?

The touch judges regularly get involved in all sorts of decisions.

The system we have is absolutely fine.

b.gud · 30-07-2015 9:55am

total former wrote: »

Posted five days ago:

Must have missed that one, thanks. Anyway I'm starting to think we could post examples all day and it's not going to make much difference :rolleyes:

connachta · 30-07-2015 2:01pm

So I've been silent for a while after another robbery (clear obstruction) in Gloucester, but time to move on, the Cherry and whites have been punished at home by Bordeaux, and our young lads probably need another year to be ready for the big euro tournament

To qualify we have 3 teams
IMO

1st XV

1) Buck
2) McCartney
3) AhYou
4) Roux
5) Muldowney
6) Masterson
7) Heenan
8 ) McKeon
9) Marmion
10) Carty
11) Healy
12) Aki
13) Henshaw
14) Poolman
15) Leader

2nd XV

1) Loughney
2) JHW
3) White
4) Marshall
5) Dillane
6) Muldoon
7) Fox
8 ) Naoupu
9) Cooney
10) Ronaldson
11) O'Leary
12) McSharry
13) Pewhairangi
14) Finn
15) TOH

Eagles

1) Bealham
2) Heffernan
3) JP Conney
4) Browne
5) Romaine
6) McVeigh
7) Moloney
8 ) J Connolly
9) Blade/Porter
10) C McKeon
11) Niyi
12) Robb
13) Parata
14) Gaffney
15) Carr

Back-ups, in case of injury crisis

Jacob Walshe Loose-Head Prop
Conor Kyne Loose Head Prop
Shane Delahunt Hooker
Jack Dinneen Hooker
Jamie Dever Tight-Head Prop
Saba Meunargia Tight-Head Prop
Conan O’Donnell Tight Head Prop
Danny Qualter Lock
Sean O’Brien Back Row/Lock
Marc Kelly Back Row
Conor Lowndes Scrum Half
Cormac Brennan Back Three

45 players able to play at least few minutes in Pro 12, + young prospects
Not so bad;);):)

Stan27 · 30-07-2015 2:06pm

connachta wrote: »

So I've been silent for a while after another robbery (clear obstruction) in Gloucester, but time to move on, the Cherry and whites have been punished at home by Bordeaux, and our young lads probably need another year to be ready for the big euro tournament

To qualify we have 3 teams
IMO

1st XV

1) Buck
2) McCartney
3) AhYou
4) Roux
5) Muldowney
6) Masterson
7) Heenan
8 ) McKeon
9) Marmion
10) Carty
11) Healy
12) Aki
13) Henshaw
14) Poolman
15) Leader

2nd XV

1) Loughney
2) JHW
3) White
4) Marshall
5) Dillane
6) Muldoon
7) Fox
8 ) Naoupu
9) Cooney
10) Ronaldson
11) O'Leary
12) McSharry
13) Pewhairangi
14) Finn
15) TOH

Eagles

1) Bealham
2) Heffernan
3) JP Conney
4) Browne
5) Romaine
6) McVeigh
7) Moloney
8 ) J Connolly
9) Blade/Porter
10) C McKeon
11) Niyi
12) Robb
13) Parata
14) Gaffney
15) Carr

Back-ups, in case of injury crisis

Jacob Walshe Loose-Head Prop
Conor Kyne Loose Head Prop
Shane Delahunt Hooker
Jack Dinneen Hooker
Jamie Dever Tight-Head Prop
Saba Meunargia Tight-Head Prop
Conan O’Donnell Tight Head Prop
Danny Qualter Lock
Sean O’Brien Back Row/Lock
Marc Kelly Back Row
Conor Lowndes Scrum Half
Cormac Brennan Back Three

45 players able to play at least few minutes in Pro 12, + young prospects
Not so bad;);):)

Squad getting better year by year. Defo think we can get 6th this year. We arn't loosing that many players for the rwc. Maybe we should just put less of an effort in to the challenge cup

connachta · 30-07-2015 2:15pm

Stan27 wrote: »

Squad getting better year by year. Defo think we can get 6th this year. We arn't loosing that many players for the rwc. Maybe we should just put less of an effort in to the challenge cup

I am somewhat divided over that. Challenge cup pool is not impressive, Quarter-final at home possible with few efforts, then two more 50/50 games and we're qualifed through it.. Top 6 may be more of an uncertain strategy all in all

phog · 30-07-2015 3:44pm

ouncer wrote: »

I get that officiating at matches is a thankless job no matter what sport. I get that you have the fans who simply jump on any possible situation. But there is the other side of the equation. Folks see games lost based on poor decisions by officials. And here (I think) is the crucial point. The winning and losing of a rugby game can be very dependent on the official. And note I say official singular. The linesman is simply a line judge in the pro12 league. The ballboy can do that job.

Leinster v Munster in the Aviva last season, first scrum (I think) it goes down, ref blows and looks like he's going for a reset. He gets the call from his AR and penalises Munster.

Officials can and will get stuff wrong, taking powers from ARs will not prevent human error or make poor officials any better.

Connacht Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Part II

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