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Minimum wage increased to 11.50

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24567…29

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    #32
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    stateofflux wrote: »
    it is very relevant here

    No it's not .

    You either choose to take part in the scheme or you don't .

    People on minimum wages are usually lacking in skills or education ( though not all ) to be able to progress up their career ladders
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #33
    Bongalongherb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    They're hardly forced. They have the choice between education or jobbridge,if they choose jobbridge then they should choose a placement which will look good on their cv. If they pick something like stacking shelves for tesco then they probably deserve to be exploited.

    Unemployed 25's and under have to take a jobbridge if they are offered it by Solas, if they refuse to take this jobbridge they will be cut-off by the DSP.


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    #34
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    mikemac1 wrote: »
    How did the Labour party ever stand over a scheme like Jobbridge :confused:

    So much for being the party for the workers

    Salmon munching socialists.


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    #35
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    Bongalongherb wrote: »
    Unemployed 25's and under have to take a jobbridge if they are offered it by Solas, if they refuse to take this jobbridge they will be cut-off by the DSP.

    Not true,they can persue education if they wish.


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    #36
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    candytog wrote: »
    You can call their work an internship and their salary an allowance all you like but the fact of the matter is people are working 40 hours a week for 150 euro.

    You may as well say the minimum wage is zero because full time students working on their studies don't get paid anything.

    You're not comparing like with like. You might think it's clever thinking on your part, but it's simply wrong.


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    #37
    jay-me
    Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭jay-me


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    If your earning €8.50 an hour and the wage going up by 25%, but the price of everything also goes up 25%, how are you any better off?

    Because your 200 a month savings is worth a hell of a lot more back home..........


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    #38
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Should we not include unpaid internships then?. The minimum wage is €0 so.


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    #39
    Tail Docker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭Tail Docker


    mikemac1 wrote: »
    How did the Labour party ever stand over a scheme like Jobbridge :confused:

    So much for being the party for the workers

    They are - they're providing businesses with free workers. If you're looking for workers, they're your man.


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    #40
    candytog
    Registered Users Posts: 144 ✭✭candytog


    smcgiff wrote: »
    You may as well say the minimum wage is zero because full time students working on their studies don't get paid anything.

    You're not comparing like with like. You might think it's clever thinking on your part, but it's simply wrong.

    You are comparing eduction to employment. I am comparing working with working.


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    #41
    Menas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,318 ✭✭✭✭Menas


    One of the good arguments for increasing the minimum wage is that it may just offer extra incentive to those who will not get off welfare because €8.65 per hour is not worth it.


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    #42
    Get Real
    Registered Users Posts: 889 ✭✭✭Get Real


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    If your earning €8.50 an hour and the wage going up by 25%, but the price of everything also goes up 25%, how are you any better off?

    If you raise minimum wage by 25%, it doesn't mean prices go up by 25%. Basically, this means a cost an extra 3 quid per hour for an employer.

    Say a person earns 8.65 an hour and sells 100 euro worth of goods per hour/ contributes labour to that value.

    Their wage will increase by 3 euro an hour, therefore their employer will need to make 103 an hour to remain as profitable as they were before.

    Thats an increase of only 3% in prices. Even if that person only sold half that ie 50euro worth of goods an hour, the employer would need to make 53 an hour under the proposed new wage, raising prices 6%.

    So, while there would be increases in prices, they would be smaller in proportion to the wage increases, therefore everyone is better off.


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    #43
    sock puppet
    Registered Users Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭sock puppet


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    If your earning €8.50 an hour and the wage going up by 25%, but the price of everything also goes up 25%, how are you any better off?

    Why would that happen? For starters the 25% increase in wages would apply to a certain number of workers but the cost would be distributed across all of society so the price increase would be smaller. Secondly wages are only one component of costs. And thirdly the proportion of national income being taken up by company profits (as opposed to labour) in the western world has been rising for decades. There is surely room to reallocate some of that output towards labour without any increase in costs.


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    #44
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Its usually the educated that leave so the minimum wage debate there doesnt mean much. As regards landlords its risk and return. If it were a one bet like the OP is implying everyone would be at it.


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    #45
    jay-me
    Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭jay-me


    Trigger Happy wrote: »
    One of the good arguments for increasing the minimum wage is that it may just offer extra incentive to those who will not get off welfare because €8.65 per hour is not worth it.

    As someone above said, increased wages = increased outgoings whihch in turn = increased welfare.. Unfortunately we can't "entice" wasters off the dole while simultaneously punishing genuine recipients.


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    #46
    Menas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,318 ✭✭✭✭Menas


    Get Real wrote: »
    If you raise minimum wage by 25%, it doesn't mean prices go up by 25%. Basically, this means a cost an extra 3 quid per hour for an employer.

    Say a person earns 8.65 an hour and sells 100 euro worth of goods per hour/ contributes labour to that value.

    Their wage will increase by 3 euro an hour, therefore their employer will need to make 103 an hour to remain as profitable as they were before.

    Thats an increase of only 3% in prices. Even if that person only sold half that ie 50euro worth of goods an hour, the employer would need to make 53 an hour under the proposed new wage, raising prices 6%.

    So, while there would be increases in prices, they would be smaller in proportion to the wage increases, therefore everyone is better off.

    True, but the larger companies will have less of a cost overhead increase due to higher sales. So the price impact will be larger for smaller operators (think Tesco versus your local newsagents)
    In retail this will widen the gap between the independents and large chain stores with the inevitable results that more of the independents go bust.


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    #47
    candytog
    Registered Users Posts: 144 ✭✭candytog


    Trigger Happy wrote: »
    One of the good arguments for increasing the minimum wage is that it may just offer extra incentive to those who will not get off welfare because €8.65 per hour is not worth it.

    I hate this mentality. During the boom unemployment was far lower than it is now. People worked because there were jobs. There are still not enough jobs. increasing minimum wage would make this even worse.


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    #48
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    Trigger Happy wrote: »
    One of the good arguments for increasing the minimum wage is that it may just offer extra incentive to those who will not get off welfare because €8.65 per hour is not worth it.

    Nope it would just push up inflation leaving the low earners and unemployed truly fecked, as well possibly doubling dependency on social welfare and reducing tax in take.


    There is no good to come from raising the minimum wage.


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    #49
    Menas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,318 ✭✭✭✭Menas


    jay-me wrote: »
    As someone above said, increased wages = increased outgoings whihch in turn = increased welfare.. Unfortunately we can't "entice" wasters off the dole while simultaneously punishing genuine recipients.

    True, the best way to tackle the problem of the welfare trap is thru welfare reform.


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    #50
    Bang_Bang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Bang_Bang


    Pay rises are a complete waste of time in the current tax system. I got promoted last year and got an extra 10k. I don't have my wife's tax credits because she's in full time work too. After increased PRSI, USC and so called income tax because of my "pay rise" I'm effectively 100 euro better off a fortnight which is equivalent to just over €2600 net PA, work that one out?

    I'm still coming to terms with 42% plus increased USC and PRSI, why the fcuk anyone gets out of bed in the morning is beyond me?


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    #51
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Prices don't just rise because the minimum wage of the company making and selling the goods goes up and they then ass that amount on (you could have several companies in the chain all getting hit with wage increases from raw materials, transport, production, sales etc) . Sellers now know people have more disposable income so a percentage gets thrown on fr that. Other costs go up then because things like landlords know an extra €50 on your rent a month can be absorbed by you etc.

    Welfare gets pushed up, government needs more money to pay it, tax goes up.


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    #52
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    Trigger Happy wrote: »
    True, the best way to tackle the problem of the welfare trap is thru welfare reform.

    But what does welfare reform mean?.Its just another buzz word that has been thrown around since 2008.

    Allowances have been addressed,programs put in place and unemployment figures dropped.

    The only way to tackle welfare is to create jobs.Without jobs,there's always going to be a reliance on welfare.Cutting welfare would actually damage the economy.


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    #53
    V.W.L 11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭V.W.L 11


    Jobbridge is a load of sh1te,exploitation of the highest level


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    #54
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    V.W.L 11 wrote: »
    Jobbridge is a load of sh1te,exploitation of the highest level

    Not in all cases
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #55
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    V.W.L 11 wrote: »
    Jobbridge is a load of sh1te,exploitation of the highest level

    And in a circle,jobbridge isnt an employment service,its for gaining experience. Be thankful people are geting anything for internships.


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    #56
    Bang_Bang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Bang_Bang


    Gatling wrote: »
    Not in all cases

    In this country you get punished for working hard and trying to provide, I agree with you about "some" job bridge appointments, I personally know a few guys that got engineering jobs through the scheme, but there are exploiters out there


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    #57
    V.W.L 11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭V.W.L 11


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    And in a circle,jobbridge isnt an employment service,its for gaining experience. Be thankful people are geting anything for internships.

    But do employers consider it as real experience??? I wouldn't dream of doing it


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    #58
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    I think it's funny how all over the world, people are having this very same argument. In most countries, they've raised the minimum wage countless times - but every time we talk about it, everyone acts as though it's a brand new concept.

    You'd think we could just look at the historical affects and determine what the best course of action is.


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    #59
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    V.W.L 11 wrote: »
    But do employers consider it as real experience??? I wouldn't dream of doing it

    Theres no requirement to state it was a paid jobbridge internship. Employers would look for a jobbridge candidate over a scratcher candidate.


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    #60
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    UCDVet wrote: »
    I think it's funny how all over the world, people are having this very same argument. In most countries, they've raised the minimum wage countless times - but every time we talk about it, everyone acts as though it's a brand new concept.

    You'd think we could just look at the historical affects and determine what the best course of action is.
    In times of deflation yes,but not where we're at


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    #61
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    Theres no requirement to state it was a paid jobbridge internship. Employers would look for a jobbridge candidate over a scratcher candidate.

    Is it not cheaper in the long run to just pay this lot the €188 pw and stop pumping good money after bad ? You cut them off crime will go up. Put them in jail your paying 3-4 times more than the dole a year. Get jobs for the people who lost their's then worry about the so called wasters.


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