New Silent Hill - Del Toro and Kojima

johnny_ultimate · 20-09-2014 1:22am

Cormac... wrote: »

I'm more interested in how many of the scares will be scripted/forced and how much of it will be cutscenes.

There's nothing wrong with scripted/forced scares - they simply have to be done correctly. One doesn't need to look far to see how heavily authored games can have remarkably powerful moments and setpieces well beyond what can happen in more freeform titles (although they offer their own sort of memorable, emergent moments) - take the first appearance of Pyramid Head in Silent Hill 2 for example. A scripted jump scare is one thing, but there's also an onus on the developer carefully build atmosphere, triggers, associations and much more besides - concepts that are very much still scripted.

There's certainly potential for more dynamic, gameplay driven horror too, but it's a very challenging thing to achieve. I haven't played it so am only basing this on the reviews I've read, but Daylight went for random generation scares, and was deemed by many to be a nearly total failure. Making a player feel weak and vulnerable without it also being majorly frustrating takes great skill (SH Shattered Memories tried it with mixed success). The best scares are painstakingly orchestrated to arrive at the perfect moment, and that can't really be achieved without developers making sure that is the case.

I think the P.T. demo is a good example of a game that has been elegantly designed by its developers, and the player is being forcibly steered in a particular direction and through well-placed setpieces while also being granted enough freedom to work out the secrets at their own pace. That's a solid compromise IMO, and hopefully the final game will expand on that while opening up the design to something more elaborate than an endlessly looping corridor - and hopefully without some of the overly obtuse puzzles and pixel hunting of the demo

Generic Dreadhead · 20-09-2014 2:38am

Well i played it tonight for the 1st time, literraly couldn't deal with it after 20mins. P.T. demo wins.

GerB40 · 20-09-2014 9:10am

Cormac... wrote: »

Well i played it tonight for the 1st time, literraly couldn't deal with it after 20mins. P.T. demo wins.

I finished for the third time yesterday. Having done it twice I thought it wouldn't frighten me so I played the whole thing wearing the headset. Fúck me, it was intense.. It adds a completely new level of creepiness.

ripperman · 20-09-2014 4:28pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with scripted/forced scares - they simply have to be done correctly. One doesn't need to look far to see how heavily authored games can have remarkably powerful moments and setpieces well beyond what can happen in more freeform titles (although they offer their own sort of memorable, emergent moments) - take the first appearance of Pyramid Head in Silent Hill 2 for example. A scripted jump scare is one thing, but there's also an onus on the developer carefully build atmosphere, triggers, associations and much more besides - concepts that are very much still scripted.

There's certainly potential for more dynamic, gameplay driven horror too, but it's a very challenging thing to achieve. I haven't played it so am only basing this on the reviews I've read, but Daylight went for random generation scares, and was deemed by many to be a nearly total failure. Making a player feel weak and vulnerable without it also being majorly frustrating takes great skill (SH Shattered Memories tried it with mixed success). The best scares are painstakingly orchestrated to arrive at the perfect moment, and that can't really be achieved without developers making sure that is the case.

I think the P.T. demo is a good example of a game that has been elegantly designed by its developers, and the player is being forcibly steered in a particular direction and through well-placed setpieces while also being granted enough freedom to work out the secrets at their own pace. That's a solid compromise IMO, and hopefully the final game will expand on that while opening up the design to something more elaborate than an endlessly looping corridor - and hopefully without some of the overly obtuse puzzles and pixel hunting of the demo

I agree. The level of design throughout the demo and the purposeful restraint it places on the player, without causing excessive frustration, is to be highly commended. Scripting and setpieces are not enemies when used in the right context as is so brilliantly illustrated here.
It genuinely makes me smile that a demo set in an L shaped looping corridor has garnered so much intrigue and surprise, alongside huge open world focused output!

Generic Dreadhead · 24-09-2014 3:38pm

Around about Loop 7

so after the dead sink baby, i was nabbed by your one trying to go through the final door, some places online say this is cause of some radio commands but does anyone here have any advice. Once she got me i stopped cause i freaked out, but I want to go back and try finish it, is there a way to avoid her getting you or does it even matter if she gets you

Any help?

Penn · 24-09-2014 4:06pm

Cormac... wrote: »

Around about Loop 7
so after the dead sink baby, i was nabbed by your one trying to go through the final door, some places online say this is cause of some radio commands but does anyone here have any advice. Once she got me i stopped cause i freaked out, but I want to go back and try finish it, is there a way to avoid her getting you or does it even matter if she gets you

Any help?

I think she's supposed to get you. It'll just start the next loop.

Generic Dreadhead · 24-09-2014 4:12pm

Penn wrote: »

I think she's supposed to get you. It'll just start the next loop.

I've been reading up on it now for a while (hour)

I think it might have been the loop (not sure which one) where she will kill you for "touching the dial" or "looking behind you" or where she randomly kills you for being idle too long, I'm still not 100% if these are both the same loop though

How the **** is anyone of sane mind and body to be expected to play a full game if it's done anywhere near this style, it's extremely unsettling

GerB40 · 24-09-2014 8:16pm

Cormac... wrote: »

Around about Loop 7
so after the dead sink baby, i was nabbed by your one trying to go through the final door, some places online say this is cause of some radio commands but does anyone here have any advice. Once she got me i stopped cause i freaked out, but I want to go back and try finish it, is there a way to avoid her getting you or does it even matter if she gets you

Any help?

The first time you get a chance to gouge the eye out of the picture of the happy couple don't go through the cellar door. Collect all the pieces of the picture then zoom into it to make sure the pic is full. From then on the ghost can't harm you, but she can still frighten the shít outta you.

Regarding the radio commands, I've finished it three times, each differently. It's so random that you can't finish it the exact same way twice (as far as I know)

Your best bet would be to delete you saved data and start again. Then you can complete the picture first time and needn't worry bout that scary ass bitch...

Hope this helps, though it probably wont....

SeantheMan · 25-09-2014 1:42am

It's the first game that really makes me want a PS4.

gimli2112 · 25-09-2014 7:54am

SeantheMan wrote: »

It's the first game that really makes me want a PS4.

It's the first game that's made me wish I hadn't bought one:eek:

Generic Dreadhead · 26-09-2014 11:34am

gimli2112 wrote: »

It's the first game that's made me wish I hadn't bought one:eek:

I wish i had the balls to play beyond the 7th loop

and

getting my neck snapped,

i could't even watch the video of the scary bit without getting goosebumps

Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNdKnJg9dEY

ripperman · 30-09-2014 11:40am

So just found out that this could be a Halloween release...2016!? :eek::D

Also hints of open world gameplay. Makes sense I suppose with the fox engine being used.

God I cant obsess over something that is over 2 years away, so The Evil Within, the stage is yours:)

Generic Dreadhead · 30-09-2014 11:44am

ripperman wrote: »

Also hints of open world gameplay.

I always get a bad feeling when i hear this. I dunno, maybe it's just an overambitious game style. It could work as long as the "world" is the size of a town of population 723

ripperman · 30-09-2014 12:00pm

Yeah it doesn't fill me with confidence considering its a horror game. Can the level of tension and atmosphere in P.T. possibly be transferred to an open world!? I don't know!?

Generic Dreadhead · 30-09-2014 12:05pm

I wish games would stop bandying around open world like it's the answer to all the worlds problems

jill_valentine · 30-09-2014 3:39pm

Silent Hill always went for the illusion of open world anyway though. It feels like you've got a full town to explore even though really it's a limited sequence of buildings. So I don't think that would make a major shift in the feel of it.

ripperman · 30-09-2014 8:39pm

Yes that’s true they did and if they continue with that then that’s absolutely fine. Give me illusion any day of the week, if it’s a horror game we are talking about. Silent Hill in all the games always felt small and isolated to me and yet deep, within its defined map. I want that from a horror game. I want boundaries and the feeling of claustrophobia, the staple of many horror movies and games. That’s why P.T. was extraordinary in my opinion. Less is quite often more. Just because the technology is there to create huge worlds it doesn’t mean it should be done. Use the technology to trap me somewhere and convince me that this small area in which I find myself is the most horrendous place I have ever witnessed instead of bombarding me with a gigantic town or city map.

Generic Dreadhead · 01-10-2014 11:40am

I hope it has an army base where you can steal rocket launching harrier jets and then call in some mercenary support to swarm a location as you rain sweet death from above

jill_valentine · 01-10-2014 11:48am

Well. It's the only way to be sure.

ripperman · 01-10-2014 12:37pm

Cormac... wrote: »

I hope it has an army base where you can steal rocket launching harrier jets and then call in some mercenary support to swarm a location as you rain sweet death from above

jill_valentine · 01-10-2014 1:34pm

"How did you get past the Shakespeare puzzle? Was it a quote from King Lear?"

"Dunno, I drove a tank through it."

FrancoThetanko · 19-12-2014 10:06pm

I can't play this for longer than 2mins

ripperman · 20-03-2015 1:43pm

Following the shocking news of Kojima productions and Konami what does this mean for the future of Silent Hills? I would be deeply disappointed if it were to be disbanded. Is buying the license an option for Kojima I wonder?

Generic Dreadhead · 20-03-2015 1:47pm

ripperman wrote: »

Following the shocking news of Kojima productions and Konami what does this mean for the future of Silent Hills? I would be deeply disappointed if it were to be disbanded. Is buying the license an option for Kojima I wonder?

I would guess he can just rename it and make a horror game, as long as he doesn't use any of the recognisable silent hills stuff.

Retr0gamer · 20-03-2015 1:48pm

I'd put money on the project being canned. I'd be very surprised if it's even out of the concept stages.

Xenji · 20-03-2015 1:56pm

Shame if it was canned, loved the mind **** that P.T was, plus have always had a soft spot for horror games.

ripperman · 20-03-2015 1:57pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'd put money on the project being canned. I'd be very surprised if it's even out of the concept stages.

That would be terrible. The demo garnered so much attention last year. What a wasted opportunity if that does happen.

Oat23 · 26-04-2015 3:27pm

Confirmed as canned, as feared in posts from a month ago

http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2015/04/26/p-t-the-silent-hills-teaser-is-being-removed-from-the-playstation-store/

PT is being removed from PSN in 3 days, so download it now if you haven't played it yet and might want to at some point.

Retr0gamer · 26-04-2015 3:34pm

No surprises there. I doubt it was even in development stages or even out of early planning so not a huge loss.still I don't think the market can support a game that can live up to Silent Hill 2 so maybe it's for the best that it's not another jump scare filled Downpour.

Zero-Cool · 26-04-2015 5:40pm

What a sickner. PT was such a great horror experience.

tok9 · 26-04-2015 7:03pm

No surprise at all regarding that specific game being a no go but let's see if there is anything about it once Kojima leaves Konami.

Retr0gamer · 26-04-2015 11:44pm

PT being removed from the store forever is another good reason why an all digital future is not good.

pleasant Co. · 26-04-2015 11:54pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

PT being removed from the store forever is another good reason why an all digital future is not good.

When you use "all digital" are you referring to a future where game content is potentially entirely server based? or specifically the personal storage medium used? (optical disc vs HDD/SSD download). Not entirely clear as we've been all digital for a very long time now.

johnny_ultimate · 27-04-2015 12:10am

Counter point: PT is a game that almost couldn't have existed pre-digital. The manner in which it was announced, distributed, promoted and discussed is a perfect example of the type of experience that has emerged due to a dominant digital infrastructure. It would not have had the impact it did if distributed, say, via demo disc or old school equivalent, and the way people teamed up to unravel its mysteries was dependent on modern forum culture and viral 'sharing'. Too small to charge for and too mysterious to include with a high profile release (hence giving the answer away in advance), why PT worked was precisely because it just quietly appeared on a digital store, while its giddy creators waited for the **** to hit the fan. And hit it did, spectacularly.

PT is, arguably, the definitive 'digital' game, a new type of demo that came about as a result of cultural trends and behaviours in 2014. And while it's a damn curse that it is now destined to evaporate back into the digital ether, we have to remember that's exactly where it came from in the first place.

Robert ninja · 27-04-2015 12:10am

^ None of this seems to be a problem for PC games as the internet inherently archives things at this point so it wouldn't matter if a digital-only released game got removed from a storefront. A few games I bought from GOG got officially removed from the store but they're still listed in my game library and I can download them at any time because I own a license for it and can back it up even if I exhausted downloads for it (if that's even a thing?).

So digital-only is only a real problem on console because there's no way to back up the games reliably to be re-installed at some point or work with any future updated version of the console's software without significant work. There's also no competitor who may provide the game because there's literally only one digital store available.

And this was a free demo right? Even less than a demo... a teaser. If they released it on PC they could probably have an official torrent of it that would likely never run out of seeders.

Retr0gamer · 27-04-2015 12:34am

Sony and Microsofts store fronts work like that as well, if you downloaded PT you can still re download it. However there's nothing to stop those two from blocking access entirely to those stores, and we've seen cases already like with 3D Realms steam competitor closing where people lost their entire libraries with no comeback.

I accept that it couldn't have come about if it wasn't for digital marketplaces but the game now is going to be lost forever to anyone else looking to experience it and perhaps be forgotten all thanks to DRM. It's a shame to happen to such an interesting game.

K.O.Kiki · 27-04-2015 9:36am

Well, we'll always have Let's Plays...
:rolleyes:

Star Lord · 27-04-2015 10:36am

I was looking forward to playing PT once I got my hands on a PS4.

GerB40 · 27-04-2015 10:44am

Star Lord wrote: »

I was looking forward to playing PT once I got my hands on a PS4.

If you know anyone that downloaded it already then log in on their profile and download it from their library. I'd imagine it would work but I'm not 100% sure about that.

Generic Dreadhead · 27-04-2015 11:19am

Well..... F**k

Retr0gamer · 27-04-2015 12:13pm

Star Lord wrote: »

I was looking forward to playing PT once I got my hands on a PS4.

Get on the online store and you might be able to purchase it that way. It will be on your account forever then, we'll that's the theory.

Star Lord · 27-04-2015 2:37pm

Thanks Retr0-san! That seems to have worked, so when I eventually get a PS4, should hopefully be there to retrieve!

ripperman · 27-04-2015 3:13pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

No surprises there. I doubt it was even in development stages or even out of early planning so not a huge loss.still I don't think the market can support a game that can live up to Silent Hill 2 so maybe it's for the best that it's not another jump scare filled Downpour.

I think as a potential product, its a huge, huge loss. Horror games as of late havn't lived up to much barring perhaps one or two. I still maintain that the demo was one of the best things I've played on a console in a long time and if the final game was to be of a similar quality, well then horror gamers and horror fans alike have been deprived of something special it would seem.

kunst nugget · 27-04-2015 4:05pm

Star Lord wrote: »

I was looking forward to playing PT once I got my hands on a PS4.

Just buy it in the store on your phone or computer and it should still be in your download list when you actually get around to picking up a PS4. It's how I purchase all the PS4 games from plus and I just picked up P.T. just there now.

Stone Deaf 4evr · 27-04-2015 5:23pm

Dont have a PS4, but I'm just wondering, why are they removing it from the store? is it a free download? you'd imagine that regardless of whether or not the full game goes ahead, theres no harm in letting people play it, even as a curiosity.

Pedro Monscooch · 27-04-2015 5:24pm

I can't remember the last time I was so disappointed in a game being cancelled.

ripperman · 27-04-2015 5:45pm

Pedro Monscooch wrote: »

I can't remember the last time I was so disappointed in a game being cancelled.

Feel the same way

LuckyFinigan · 27-04-2015 6:42pm

Konami saying they are still committed to making new Silent Hill games basically means they are going to continue to hand it off to ****ty american developers no ones heard of like they have for the past ten years, and thats if they even stay in the gaming business, so disappointed:(

wayne040576 · 27-04-2015 7:53pm

http://www.polygon.com/2015/4/27/8503893/konami-delists-itself-from-new-york-stock-exchange

Something's going on with them. Now they're de-listing themselves from the New York stock exchange. Maybe they plan to focus on the casino machine side of their business?

Generic Dreadhead · 28-04-2015 11:39am

They are a fecking mess right now.

New Silent Hill - Del Toro and Kojima

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