Is it still 1971 in Ireland? The contraceptive train still runs - Under another name.

The_Valeyard · 28-10-2014 7:55pm

The One Doctor wrote: »

Abortion is not contraception.

Agreed. Thread title is very misleading.

28-10-2014 7:55pm

lazygal wrote: »

Emergency contraception is not always effective.

But it IS available.

lazygal · 28-10-2014 7:55pm

RobertKK wrote: »

So will pro-choice then shut up about looking for the 8th amendment to be removed if the unborn's right to life is not vindicated in the constitution?

Do you think the right to travel and information on how to kill the unborn should be available in Ireland?
Do women who can't travel have any options other than remaining pregnant?

lazygal · 28-10-2014 7:55pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But it IS available.

But it doesn't always work. What happens then?

JuliusCaesar · 28-10-2014 7:56pm

Lapin wrote: »

In a echo to a time only 43 years ago when women travelled north to 'smuggle' condoms into the Republic because contraception was banned here,

I can't believe it's that long since myself and my then boyfriend obtained condoms on prescription! We had to pretend to be engaged. It was still illegal, but the Family Planning Association allowed prescriptions for condoms if you were married or engaged.

Ah well. They weren't that effective it turned out and I found myself having to go to the UK.

Celly Smunt wrote: »

And how about the permanent change to the fathers life who wanted the child,that doesn't count for anything no?

What permanent changes happen his body?

Gongoozler · 28-10-2014 7:56pm

RobertKK wrote: »

It is not very cryptic. The same company that made Zyklon B is the same company that gave us the abortion pill.
Trains were used to bring people to be gassed at concentration camps, a train was used today to bring a product designed by the same company that produced Zyklon B.
Two of their killing products, and the idiots today probably didn't see how tasteless it was to use a train...given the association between the abortion pill, and the company that produced the gas for gas chambers in WW2.
In both cases their victims had to be trapped for their product to work.

Jesus, at least try make some sort of argument for your side. That's just embarrassing.

It was the trains all along!!1!

RobertKK · 28-10-2014 7:57pm

lazygal wrote: »

Do you think the right to travel and information on how to kill the unborn should be available in Ireland?
Do women who can't travel have any options other than remaining pregnant?

The people voted for it so we should accept it.

There are more options than just abortion if pregnant.

Gongoozler · 28-10-2014 7:58pm

So the pills that these people got today were they prescription only pills?

RobertKK · 28-10-2014 7:58pm

Gongoozler wrote: »

Jesus, at least try make some sort of argument for your side. That's just embarrassing.

It was the trains all along!!1!

Sorry maybe it was cryptic.

Lapin · 28-10-2014 7:59pm

Patser wrote: »

Everyday this week hundreds of Irish people will travel North of the border, buy objects illegal in the Republic and smuggle them across the border, home. Will Ruth Coppinger be there to support all these people Halloween Night when they let off these fireworks!

I don't know about Coppinger, but I think fireworks should be available for sale in the republic. Another example of our governments knowing whats best for us.

Patser wrote: »

Similarly will she greet Stag Parties returning from Amsterdam, saying Irish Towns should now have Red Light districts and coffee shops?

Likewise.
In fact I believe Irish towns and cities should have designated red light districts where the sex industry can operate legally and those who work in it can do so safely. As it stands, our authorities are content to ignore it (yet avail of it in some cases), and turn their backs on the exploitation of many workers in the industry.

Patser wrote: »

Or do you think it's ok for a TD to break some laws, so long as you agree with them.

If such laws are are commonplace elsewhere (as the three examples above are) and the TD shows highlights the stupidity of the laws by breaking them, then yes, Coppinger served a good purpose by breaking them.

Patser wrote: »

Fwiw I agree these pills should be allowed in Ireland but should be prescription only (or in consultation with a pharmacist) , they can be pretty hard hitting on those that take them, and IMO shouldn't be just something you get in the mail.

The pills are available on prescription here already in very limited cases.

Just like condoms were in 1971

Frank Lee Midere · 28-10-2014 7:59pm

I'll be staying out of this thread.

Earl Turner · 28-10-2014 8:00pm

Celly Smunt wrote: »

Both the man and woman should be able to prove that all avenues have been exhausted and abortion is the final step.

Good post. And the father should definitely get some input.

ancapailldorcha · 28-10-2014 8:00pm

lazygal wrote: »

What say, exactly, should the man have when a woman is pregnant?

He should have the right to legally absolve himself of his (laughably inadequate) rights and responsibilities towards the child. If the mother wants to keep it then she does it herself, a paper abortion if you will. He wouldn't be liable for child support but he can't just change his mind afterwards either. A father should have a choice but equality wouldn't be pragmatic as a woman, rightfully has autonomy over whatever happens to her body.

runawaybishop · 28-10-2014 8:00pm

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

I can't believe it's that long since myself and my then boyfriend obtained condoms on prescription! We had to pretend to be engaged. It was still illegal, but the Family Planning Association allowed prescriptions for condoms if you were married or engaged.

Ah well. They weren't that effective it turned out and I found myself having to go to the UK.

What permanent changes happen his body?

Is that the only factor that matters?

lazygal · 28-10-2014 8:00pm

Abortion pills are only available when a miscarriage needs to be treated. Not because a woman no longer wants to be pregnant.

lazygal · 28-10-2014 8:01pm

Earl Turner wrote: »

Good post. And the father should definitely get some input.

What input, exactly? Do rapists get a say too?

Timberrrrrrrr · 28-10-2014 8:02pm

RobertKK wrote: »

They should have been.

Maybe the police are too busy with the real love/hate stuff that is going on in Dublin.

Will you be heading into store st station tomorrow to report this crime?

mikeym · 28-10-2014 8:02pm

Im sitting on the fence with the abortion issue.

runawaybishop · 28-10-2014 8:03pm

lazygal wrote: »

What input, exactly? Do rapists get a say too?

Strawman.

Earl Turner · 28-10-2014 8:03pm

lazygal wrote: »

What input, exactly? Do rapists get a say too?

Well he should be entitled to an opinion if its his child.

And no a rapist wouldn't get a say.

Timberrrrrrrr · 28-10-2014 8:04pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But it IS available.

Emergency contraception is fine for a girl who has had unprotected sex, how about a rape victim?

P_1 · 28-10-2014 8:04pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What a farce. Emergency contraception is readily available in Ireland. http://www.ifpa.ie/node/72 What is not readily available is abortion. That is the Law, as voted by several times by the people.

You'd be doing well to find someone who said law directly effects who had a chance to participate in one of said several votes mind

lazygal · 28-10-2014 8:04pm

Earl Turner wrote: »

Well he should be entitled to an opinion if its his child.

And no a rapist wouldn't get a say.

So once again the circumstances of conception affect whether a woman can access abortion. Why?

Celly Smunt · 28-10-2014 8:06pm

lazygal wrote: »

Why isn't "I don't want to remain pregnant" reason enough?
Pregnancy is crap. No woman or child should have to go through it because someone else wants them to against their wishes.

Why isn't "I don't want my life destroyed knowing I could've been a father" enough reason.
Having you life derailed is destroyed is pretty crap,No man should have to go through it because somebody else wants them to go against the wishes.

Say it was your son who came home announcing they were going to be a father.The whole family dying for this opportunity to welcome a new life into the family. One Sunday afternoon a phone call "your child is being aborted and there's nothing you can do". Shattered lives.

But I suppose,its only the father and their family sure who cares?

Earl Turner · 28-10-2014 8:06pm

lazygal wrote: »

So once again the circumstances of conception affect whether a woman can access abortion. Why?

Because if me and a woman decide to have a child and then she decides she wants to kill it why shouldn't I get a say?

Celly Smunt · 28-10-2014 8:07pm

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

What permanent changes happen his body?

Does permanent damage to mental health account for anything?

lazygal · 28-10-2014 8:08pm

Earl Turner wrote: »

Because if me and a woman decide to have a child and then she decides she wants to kill it why shouldn't I get a say?

Because you don't have to gestate and birth it. Pregnancy and birth have long term effects. Nine of which men will undergo.

Patser · 28-10-2014 8:09pm

Gongoozler wrote: »

So the pills that these people got today were they prescription only pills?

According to RTE.ie the Pills were ordered online, delivered to addresses in Northern Ireland and collected there today.

On the OP there is a link that says RTE but is to the Independent in which Ruth Coppinger says she just took one of the tablets and 'I'm not dead yet'. Seems a little flippant to me.

lazygal · 28-10-2014 8:09pm

Celly Smunt wrote: »

Why isn't "I don't want my life destroyed knowing I could've been a father" enough reason.
Having you life derailed is destroyed is pretty crap,No man should have to go through it because somebody else wants them to go against the wishes.

Say it was your son who came home announcing they were going to be a father.The whole family dying for this opportunity to welcome a new life into the family. One Sunday afternoon a phone call "your child is being aborted and there's nothing you can do". Shattered lives.

But I suppose,its only the father and their family sure who cares?

I would not want my son to force a woman to remain pregnant against her wishes.

runawaybishop · 28-10-2014 8:09pm

lazygal wrote: »

Because you don't have to gestate and birth it. Pregnancy and birth have long term effects. Nine of which men will undergo.

And having your child aborted has no long term effects for the guy is it? I guess since they have no choice they have no responsibilities if the woman has a child against their wishes then either.

28-10-2014 8:10pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Emergency contraception is fine for a girl who has had unprotected sex, how about a rape victim?

What I feel should happen and what can, in Law happen are seriously at odds. I found this publicity stunt to be in very bad taste. Rape victims and women with unviable pregnancies are the sad victims of our legislation.

lazygal · 28-10-2014 8:10pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

And having your child aborted has no long term effects for the guy is it?

So a woman should be forced to remain pregnant because a man might suffer ill effects?

Celly Smunt · 28-10-2014 8:11pm

lazygal wrote: »

So a woman should be forced to remain pregnant because a man might suffer ill effects?

Role reverse that.

ancapailldorcha · 28-10-2014 8:11pm

lazygal wrote: »

Because you don't have to gestate and birth it. Pregnancy and birth have long term effects. Nine of which men will undergo.

A woman should have complete autonomy over her own body. What I object to is a man being forced to pay for a child he mightn't want or being having no say should she decide on the abortion. The latter I can accept but the former is absurd and unacceptable.

runawaybishop · 28-10-2014 8:12pm

lazygal wrote: »

So a woman should be forced to remain pregnant because a man might suffer ill effects?

But its grand if you swap the genders around?

lazygal · 28-10-2014 8:13pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

But its grand if you swap the genders around?

Can a man gestate and birth a child? What effects do pregnancy and birth have on men?

Demonique · 28-10-2014 8:14pm

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

Dougi mqquaid here, yeez can fuk off

Who?

runawaybishop · 28-10-2014 8:14pm

lazygal wrote: »

Can a man gestate and birth a child? What effects do pregnancy and birth have on men?

Strawman argument again. Or are you seriously arguing that abortion has no effect on men?

Earl Turner · 28-10-2014 8:15pm

lazygal wrote: »

Can a man gestate and birth a child? What effects do pregnancy and birth have on men?

Lol you make pregnancy sound like something out Aliens. It's hardly that bad if most women do it at some stage in their lives.

Demonique · 28-10-2014 8:15pm

Celly Smunt wrote: »

And what about the choice of the father? Disregarded?

Squirting a load doesn't equal nine months of pregnancy though

Celly Smunt · 28-10-2014 8:15pm

lazygal wrote: »

Can a man gestate and birth a child? What effects do pregnancy and birth have on men?

What effects might abortion have on a man?

The pain is apples and oranges but the effects are of the same degree.i

lazygal · 28-10-2014 8:16pm

Earl Turner wrote: »

Lol you make pregnancy sound like something out Aliens. It's hardly that bad if most women do it at some stage in their lives.

How many times have you been pregnant? I've done it twice. It's crap. Abdominal surgery to get the babies out wasn't nice either.

runawaybishop · 28-10-2014 8:16pm

Demonique wrote: »

Squirting a load doesn't equal nine months of pregnancy though

Right, because all men have nothing to do with or are even slightly connected emotionally with their kids :rolleyes:

Celly Smunt · 28-10-2014 8:16pm

Demonique wrote: »

Squirting a load doesn't equal nine months of pregnancy though

A one person approved Abortion doesn't equal a lifetime of pain though.

runawaybishop · 28-10-2014 8:17pm

lazygal wrote: »

How many times have you been pregnant? I've done it twice. It's crap. Abdominal surgery to get the babies out wasn't nice either.

Ok, so its a competition here is it? The more pregnancies the more say you have :rolleyes:

Gongoozler · 28-10-2014 8:17pm

Patser wrote: »

According to RTE.ie the Pills were ordered online, delivered to addresses in Northern Ireland and collected there today.

On the OP there is a link that says RTE but is to the Independent in which Ruth Coppinger says she just took one of the tablets and 'I'm not dead yet'. Seems a little flippant to me.

Hmmm, ok. Thanks for that. I was going to say that whatever doctor prescribed to a woman who he hasn't proven as pregnant should be reported to the GMC. I suppose this is along similar lines. It's all so dodgy, online prescriptions.

Lapin · 28-10-2014 8:19pm

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Agreed. Thread title is very misleading.

Is it? Nobody else seems confused by it.

I simply made the association between the 'contraceptive trains' of 1971 and questioned have things changed that much since by suggesting that thay haven't as the train still runs to this day, but under a different name.

It adds a different dimention to the old slogan from Irish Rail We're Getting There.

Apologies to those who easily confused.

Patser · 28-10-2014 8:20pm

Lapin wrote: »

If such laws are are commonplace elsewhere (as the three examples above are) and the TD shows highlights the stupidity of the laws by breaking them, then yes, Coppinger served a good purpose by breaking them.

I wouldn't think red light districts or legalised drugs would be considered that common even in Europe. Hamburgs Reeperbahn - Spelling? - And Amsterdam aside, there're few well known places. And again these were only a few examples of what's legal abroad but not here and ones that I'd say would face massive objections from the majority of Irish Voters if they were to be introduced.

What other examples of what's legal abroad but if were done here would you object to. Full speed down the M4 citing Germany's autobahns as example, arranged marriages as common in middle east enforced in Sligo, India's caste system now a legal entity between North and South side Dublin? Regardless wether you agree with law, TDs especially should obey them but actively campaign against them. If you get huge support and it makes sense, the law will get changed.

--LOS-- · 28-10-2014 8:22pm

Mens rights is one thing, claiming you should have a right to decide what happens to a woman's body is frankly disgusting. I honestly don't know how anyone can think otherwise.

The_Valeyard · 28-10-2014 8:22pm

Lapin wrote: »

Is it? Nobody else seems confused by it.

I simply made the association between the 'contraceptive trains' of 1971 and questioned have things changed that much since by suggesting that thay haven't as the train still runs to this day, but under a different name.

It adds a different dimention to the old slogan from Irish Rail We're Getting There.

Apologies to those who easily confused.

really bad association since abortion is not a contraceptive. But hey, your agenda driven thread, knock yourself out. Completely different context for the fight for condoms and the debates on abortion.

Is it still 1971 in Ireland? The contraceptive train still runs - Under another name.

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