Is it still 1971 in Ireland? The contraceptive train still runs - Under another name.

Lapin · 28-10-2014 7:06pm #1

Up to 30 women and pro-choice TDs travelled the ‘abortion pill train’ and took the tablets to a rally in Dublin on their return.

Rita Harrold of ROSA (Reproductive rights, against Oppression, Sexism & Austerity) said thousands of women in Ireland are forced to make a difficult and expensive journey to abortion clinics in England.

“Yet, a safe, less costly option could be provided through medical abortion pills prescribed by our own GPs, as happens in many other countries,” she said.

More than 1,000 of the tablets have been seized in Ireland this year, mostly as they arrived into the country via mail order.

Medics say Ireland’s our anti- abortion laws are forcing women to order high-risk pills on the internet in a bid to end unwanted pregnancies.

Ms Coppinger, of the Socialist Party, said the political establishment are way behind ordinary people when it comes to abortion. “They continue to give Catholic beliefs centrality when a large majority now favour allowing abortion to protect women's health, both physical and mental,” she said.

“How can politicians justify maintaining a Constitutional Amendment now 31-years-old and on which no woman of child-bearing age had a say?

From RTÉ

Hard to belive that women have to resort to this form of protest in this day and age. In a echo to a time only 43 years ago when women travelled north to 'smuggle' condoms into the Republic because contraception was banned here, today they still have to do the same to obtain the abortion pill (widely available elsewhere) bacause our governments havent got the balls to deal with it.

Meanwhile these same successive governments have turned their backs on the hundreds of thousands of young women over the years while they travelled abroad for terminations. Abortion clinics are also 'widely available elsewhere' but thats ok for our government and catholic church.

During the contraception trains of the early 70s Ireland was seen as a laughing stock.

Today we're still a laughing stock, but its also a hell of a lot more serious now as women's lives are at stake. Today's protest on the 2nd anniversary of the death of Savita Halappanavar is a stark reminder of that.

Its time to stop exporting our problems by pretending they don't exist and start importing the pills.

FAIR PLAY TO ALL THE PEOPLE ON THAT TRAIN TODAY.

Generic Dreadhead · 28-10-2014 7:07pm

It is yes

The_Valeyard · 28-10-2014 7:11pm

Well that's not an agenda driven OP Post .

The One Doctor · 28-10-2014 7:11pm

We do have abortion pills freely available. They're called the morning after pill.

Apart from that, abortion is currently illegal in Ireland except under very specific circumstances. You can't just go into a clinic and ask to have a human's life stopped. That's the law, and that's why these pills are being seized, i.e, they're abortifacients.

I used to be pro abortion until I got older. However, I would vote yes on a referendum if the limit for abortions was set at 10-12 weeks.

Celly Smunt · 28-10-2014 7:12pm

The catholic vote has a heavy fist, its a bullet every single party has to dodge.

I would be pro-choice to a degree.Of course I believe in the right to abortion in the right circumstances though the last thing I'd want to see in Ireland is almost drive thru style clinics. If it is in the best interest for BOTH parties including the man to have the abortion then so be it, abortion affects men too and its something that will be swept over time and time again by the pro choice brigade.

Sunnyisland · 28-10-2014 7:12pm

It is quite embarrassing in this day and age that women still have to hide and go in secret to a another country in regards to contraception, unbelievable really.

Lapin · 28-10-2014 7:13pm

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Well that's not an agenda driven OP Post .

Its an opinion on a discussion forum. Feel free to add your own sometime.

The One Doctor · 28-10-2014 7:14pm

realies wrote: »

It is quite embarrassing in this day and age that women still have to hide and go in secret to a another country in regards to contraception, unbelievable really.

Abortion is not contraception.

efb · 28-10-2014 7:14pm

The One Doctor wrote: »

We do have abortion pills freely available. They're called the morning after pill.

Apart from that, abortion is currently illegal in Ireland except under very specific circumstances. You can't just got into a clinic and ask to have a human's life stopped. That's the law, and that's why these pills are being seized, i.e, they're abortifacients.

I used to be pro abortion until I got older. However, I would vote yes on a referendum if the limit for abortions was set at 10-12 weeks.

My understanding of the MAP is that is prevents sperm implantation in the egg so no life is stopped, rather prevented from occurring http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-info/morning-after-pill-emergency-contraception

efb · 28-10-2014 7:19pm

The One Doctor wrote: »

Abortion is not contraception.

Map is NOT abortion

The_Valeyard · 28-10-2014 7:22pm

Lapin wrote: »

Its an opinion on a discussion forum. Feel free to add your own sometime.

I believe I did.

If you want more. I believe these women are not doctors and handing out medicine without prescription could be very dangerous. Better ways to protest.

Sunnyisland · 28-10-2014 7:22pm

The One Doctor wrote: »

Abortion is not contraception.

It should be there choice and we shouldn't be exporting another one of our own problems, it should be dealt with here.

Celly Smunt · 28-10-2014 7:23pm

realies wrote: »

It should be there choice and we shouldn't be exporting another one of our own problems, it should be dealt with here.

And what about the choice of the father? Disregarded?

lazygal · 28-10-2014 7:26pm

Celly Smunt wrote: »

And what about the choice of the father? Disregarded?

What choice should a father have? Should he be able to restrain a women from going abroad to kill the unborn/murder a child/have an abortion?

Tail Docker · 28-10-2014 7:27pm

Was embarrassing to watch tbh. We need to move the fcuk on. It's like we insist on making parochial, backwards rules that are then slavishly followed. It should be an issue between a woman and herself, no one else. The church and the state ought to feck back to the '70's on their own and let people live as they decide for themselves. "Morals and safety" me hole, it's just control over people they want.

RobertKK · 28-10-2014 7:27pm

Reproductive rights, against Oppression, Sexism & Austerity

You need austerity in your title if you going to protest...

The One Doctor · 28-10-2014 7:27pm

Celly Smunt wrote: »

And what about the choice of the father? Disregarded?

The father is never going to have a say as to whether a fetus can be killed or not. It would be a retrograde step to allow a man to say if an abortion can happen or not, and I say that as a fully fledged man.

JuliusCaesar · 28-10-2014 7:29pm

The One Doctor wrote: »

I used to be pro abortion until I got older.

A bit of an extreme position.

I mean, I believe that women have the right to chose, which makes me pro-choice, as I think if they want to go through with their pregnancy (as most women do) they should do so. I wouldn't want to force anyone to have an abortion against their will.

Celly Smunt · 28-10-2014 7:30pm

lazygal wrote: »

What choice should a father have? Should he be able to restrain a women from going abroad to kill the unborn/murder a child/have an abortion?

Pretty much my dilemma,the father should have input into what happens to his child also.The decision isn't the woman's alone and therefore I believe mediation should be applied prior to abortion where the father is present.

Fathers rights are just as medieval here in Ireland as our abortion laws,its time to address both issues.

lazygal · 28-10-2014 7:32pm

Celly Smunt wrote: »

Pretty much my dilemma,the father should have input into what happens to his child also.The decision isn't the woman's alone and therefore I believe mediation should be applied prior to abortion where the father is present.

Fathers rights are just as medieval here in Ireland as our abortion laws,its time to address both issues.

How can a father have a say in whether a woman continues a pregnancy? A woman either stays pregnant or has an abortion.

I was really anti choice until I grew up a bit and realised women will always need and want abortion services and making them continue pregnancies they don't want to continue is barbaric.

Buona Fortuna · 28-10-2014 7:32pm

lazygal wrote: »

What choice should a father have? Should he be able to restrain a women from going abroad to kill the unborn/murder a child/have an abortion?

Yes, or the opposite should he be able to frce a termination because he doesn't feel like being a Dad?

One eyed Jack · 28-10-2014 7:35pm

Celly Smunt wrote: »

Pretty much my dilemma,the father should have input into what happens to his child also.The decision isn't the woman's alone and therefore I believe mediation should be applied prior to abortion where the father is present.

Fathers rights are just as medieval here in Ireland as our abortion laws,its time to address both issues.

You don't actually become a father until the child is born, in the very same way as a woman doesn't become a mother until she actually gives birth to a child.

Timberrrrrrrr · 28-10-2014 7:36pm

The One Doctor wrote: »

We do have abortion pills freely available. They're called the morning after pill.

Apart from that, abortion is currently illegal in Ireland except under very specific circumstances. You can't just go into a clinic and ask to have a human's life stopped. That's the law, and that's why these pills are being seized, i.e, they're abortifacients.

I used to be pro abortion until I got older. However, I would vote yes on a referendum if the limit for abortions was set at 10-12 weeks.

And if the woman seeking an abortion is a victim of rape?

everdead.ie · 28-10-2014 7:36pm

You can be pro choice or life or somewhere in the middle but anyone who takes a pill they ordered off the internet is most likely not ingesting what they think they are......

One thing about these protests though is that its not something the government can actually do anything about they have to have a referendum(and it'll be fecking blood on the streets stuff with the way both sides go on) I still doubt over 50% of the population will accept abortion except in cases of rape.

Lapin · 28-10-2014 7:36pm

The_Valeyard wrote: »

I believe I did.

If you want more. I believe these women are not doctors and handing out medicine without prescription could be very dangerous. Better ways to protest.

Who are they handing the pills out to?

They went to Belfast to obtain the pills for themselves and are campaigning for the right to themselves and others to have similar access to them south of the border.

A very dignified protest in my opinion.

JuliusCaesar · 28-10-2014 7:36pm

The day that a male can have a parasite (fetus) grow inside his body, causing permanent change to his body, is the day he may make decisions for the woman and have the fetus transplanted into himself should he want it.

Most women do not have abortions lightly. It is not a decision that they generally take without giving it a lot of thought.

runawaybishop · 28-10-2014 7:37pm

Buona Fortuna wrote: »

Yes, or the opposite should he be able to frce a termination because he doesn't feel like being a Dad?

Well, the woman has that right now. Equality and all.

RobertKK · 28-10-2014 7:37pm

Lapin wrote: »

Up to 30 women and pro-choice TDs travelled the ‘abortion pill train’ and took the tablets to a rally in Dublin on their return.

Rita Harrold of ROSA (Reproductive rights, against Oppression, Sexism & Austerity) said thousands of women in Ireland are forced to make a difficult and expensive journey to abortion clinics in England.

“Yet, a safe, less costly option could be provided through medical abortion pills prescribed by our own GPs, as happens in many other countries,” she said.

More than 1,000 of the tablets have been seized in Ireland this year, mostly as they arrived into the country via mail order.

Medics say Ireland’s our anti- abortion laws are forcing women to order high-risk pills on the internet in a bid to end unwanted pregnancies.

Ms Coppinger, of the Socialist Party, said the political establishment are way behind ordinary people when it comes to abortion. “They continue to give Catholic beliefs centrality when a large majority now favour allowing abortion to protect women's health, both physical and mental,” she said.

“How can politicians justify maintaining a Constitutional Amendment now 31-years-old and on which no woman of child-bearing age had a say?

From RTÉ

Hard to belive that women have to resort to this form of protest in this day and age. In a echo to a time only 43 years ago when women travelled north to 'smuggle' condoms into the Republic because contraception was banned here, today they still have to do the same to obtain the abortion pill (widely available elsewhere) bacause our governments havent got the balls to deal with it.

Meanwhile these same successive governments have turned their backs on the hundreds of thousands of young women over the years while they travelled abroad for terminations. Abortion clinics are also 'widely available elsewhere' but thats ok for our government and catholic church.

During the contraception trains of the early 70s Ireland was seen as a laughing stock.

Today we're still a laughing stock, but its also a hell of a lot more serious now as women's lives are at stake. Today's protest on the 2nd anniversary of the death of Savita Halappanavar is a stark reminder of that.

Its time to stop exporting our problems by pretending they don't exist and start importing the pills.

FAIR PLAY TO ALL THE PEOPLE ON THAT TRAIN TODAY.

The findings of the inquiries found the abortion laws had nothing to do with her death.

She is a woman who has been used, legislate for X was the chant back then, that legislation would have done nothing for her.

Dr Peter Boylan said women are putting their lives at risk by importing abortion pills.

Also it is interesting the company that made Zyklon B to gas Jews, homosexuals, Gypsies, the disabled and others is the same company that came up with the abortion pill.
Interesting that trains were involved today.

lazygal · 28-10-2014 7:37pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

And if the woman seeking an abortion is a victim of rape?

Why are the circumstances of conception relevant to whether a woman can have an abortion?

Patser · 28-10-2014 7:38pm

Everyday this week hundreds of Irish people will travel North of the border, buy objects illegal in the Republic and smuggle them across the border, home. Will Ruth Coppinger be there to support all these people Halloween Night when they let off these fireworks!

Similarly will she greet Stag Parties returning from Amsterdam, saying Irish Towns should now have Red Light districts and coffee shops?

Or do you think it's ok for a TD to break some laws, so long as you agree with them.

Fwiw I agree these pills should be allowed in Ireland but should be prescription only (or in consultation with a pharmacist) , they can be pretty hard hitting on those that take them, and IMO shouldn't be just something you get in the mail.

Timberrrrrrrr · 28-10-2014 7:39pm

RobertKK wrote: »

The findings of the inquiries found the abortion laws had nothing to do with her death.

She is a woman who has been used, legislate for X was the chant back then, that legislation would have done nothing for her.

Dr Peter Boylan said women are putting their lives at risk by importing abortion pills.

Also it is interesting the company that made Zyklon B to gas Jews, homosexuals, Gypsies, the disabled and others is the same company that came up with the abortion pill.
Interesting that trains were involved today.

Very cryptic, care to elaborate?

lazygal · 28-10-2014 7:40pm

RobertKK wrote: »

The findings of the inquiries found the abortion laws had nothing to do with her death.

She is a woman who has been used, legislate for X was the chant back then, that legislation would have done nothing for her.

Dr Peter Boylan said women are putting their lives at risk by importing abortion pills.

Also it is interesting the company that made Zyklon B to gas Jews, homosexuals, Gypsies, the disabled and others is the same company that came up with the abortion pill.
Interesting that trains were involved today.

Do you think women should be prevented from leaving Ireland if their purpose for travel is to kill the unborn?

lazygal · 28-10-2014 7:41pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Very cryptic, care to elaborate?

I presume its the usual anti choice holocaust reference. Because ending a pregnancy is the same as mass murder or some such.

Timberrrrrrrr · 28-10-2014 7:42pm

lazygal wrote: »

Why are the circumstances of conception relevant to whether a woman can have an abortion?

I was replying to the poster who said the MAP is as good. Not everyone who is raped reports it for whatever reason and therefore does not get the MAP. Fwiw i'm pro choice and believe a woman shouldn't have to travel to another country to get an abortion.

RobertKK · 28-10-2014 7:42pm

lazygal wrote: »

Do you think women should be prevented from leaving Ireland if their purpose for travel is to kill the unborn?

It is in the constitution they can travel.

It is illegal and against the law to bring abortion pills into the state.

We can have anarchy and only pick the laws that suit us and ignore the laws we don't agree with.

lazygal · 28-10-2014 7:44pm

RobertKK wrote: »

It is in the constitution they can travel.

It is illegal and against the law to bring abortion pills into the state.

We can have anarchy and only pick the laws that suit us and ignore the laws we don't agree with.

Do you think the right to travel to kill the unborn should be repealed? We prevent people from traveling to abuse born children. Do the unborn deserve that protection?

Timberrrrrrrr · 28-10-2014 7:44pm

RobertKK wrote: »

It is in the constitution they can travel.

It is illegal and against the law to bring abortion pills into the state.

We can have anarchy and only pick the laws that suit us and ignore the laws we don't agree with.

Yet no one was arrested at Connelly station today.

Celly Smunt · 28-10-2014 7:47pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You don't actually become a father until the child is born, in the very same way as a woman doesn't become a mother until she actually gives birth to a child.

Oh yes,I forgot that women became pregnant by themselves and found a father afterwards.

The father is the father from the time of insemination and there after,to say that the father should have no say into the way that life is carried or terminated is discriminatory to that party.

sheesh · 28-10-2014 7:48pm

While I agree with giving women choice to have an abortion and be able to have it in Ireland, the reason is that there was a vote and people voted to have it that way, thats democracy.

I think a vote like this should be done every 10 years or so to see what people think.

In Britain the US and I'm sure other countries it was the decision of a couple of judges. They were not asked.

Because the way the amendment is written I would not be so sure that it will be removed if it is put to a vote. Remember you will voting to remove the right to life of the unborn, this will push all sorts of emotional buttons with people and they will definitely turn out, the pro abortion crowd will also turn out but the middle ground made up of disinterested males and older women could go either way (I think).

Personally I think it the decision should be left to the woman.

lazygal · 28-10-2014 7:48pm

Celly Smunt wrote: »

Oh yes,I forgot that women became pregnant by themselves and found a father afterwards.

The father is the father from the time of insemination and there after,to say that the father should have no say into the way that life is carried or terminated is discriminatory to that party.

What say, exactly, should the man have when a woman is pregnant?

The_Valeyard · 28-10-2014 7:49pm

Lapin wrote: »

Who are they handing the pills out to?

They went to Belfast to obtain the pills for themselves and are campaigning for the right to themselves and others to have similar access to them south of the border.

A very dignified protest in my opinion.

So they are all going to have abortions now or something? Of course those pills are not simply for themselves. They could protest by voting for candidates that would change the law, not simply by breaking the law themselves.

Celly Smunt · 28-10-2014 7:49pm

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

The day that a male can have a parasite (fetus) grow inside his body, causing permanent change to his body, is the day he may make decisions for the woman and have the fetus transplanted into himself should he want it.

Most women do not have abortions lightly. It is not a decision that they generally take without giving it a lot of thought.

And how about the permanent change to the fathers life who wanted the child,that doesn't count for anything no?

RobertKK · 28-10-2014 7:49pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Very cryptic, care to elaborate?

It is not very cryptic. The same company that made Zyklon B is the same company that gave us the abortion pill.
Trains were used to bring people to be gassed at concentration camps, a train was used today to bring a product designed by the same company that produced Zyklon B.
Two of their killing products, and the idiots today probably didn't see how tasteless it was to use a train...given the association between the abortion pill, and the company that produced the gas for gas chambers in WW2.
In both cases their victims had to be trapped for their product to work.

lazygal · 28-10-2014 7:50pm

sheesh wrote: »

While I agree with giving women choice to have an abortion and be able to have it in Ireland, the reason is that there was a vote and people voted to have it that way, thats democracy.

I think a vote like this should be done every 10 years or so to see what people think.

In Britain the US and I'm sure other countries it was the decision of a couple of judges. They were not asked.

Because the way the amendment is written I would not be so sure that it will be removed if it is put to a vote. Remember you will voting to remove the right to life of the unborn, this will push all sorts of emotional buttons with people and they will definitely turn out, the pro abortion crowd will also turn out but the middle ground made up of disinterested males and older women could go either way (I think).

Personally I think it the decision should be left to the woman.

The unborn right to life is not vindicated at all by our constitution. We allow the unborn to be taken elsewhere to be killed and we protect the right to information on how and where to go to kill the unborn in the constitution. Apparently the right to life only exists when a woman doesn't or can't go abroad.

BBJBIG · 28-10-2014 7:50pm

There was no sex in Oireland before the TV.
And in 1971 the only contraceptive consisted of a swift kick in the Nuts.
That'd learn ya, bai, to zip up yer mickie ...

Celly Smunt · 28-10-2014 7:51pm

lazygal wrote: »

What say, exactly, should the man have when a woman is pregnant?

Both the man and woman should be able to prove that all avenues have been exhausted and abortion is the final step.

RobertKK · 28-10-2014 7:51pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Yet no one was arrested at Connelly station today.

They should have been.

Maybe the police are too busy with the real love/hate stuff that is going on in Dublin.

lazygal · 28-10-2014 7:52pm

Celly Smunt wrote: »

Both the man and woman should be able to prove that all avenues have been exhausted and abortion is the final step.

Why isn't "I don't want to remain pregnant" reason enough?
Pregnancy is crap. No woman or child should have to go through it because someone else wants them to against their wishes.

28-10-2014 7:53pm

What a farce. Emergency contraception is readily available in Ireland. http://www.ifpa.ie/node/72 What is not readily available is abortion. That is the Law, as voted by several times by the people.

RobertKK · 28-10-2014 7:53pm

lazygal wrote: »

The unborn right to life is not vindicated at all by our constitution. We allow the unborn to be taken elsewhere to be killed and we protect the right to information on how and where to go to kill the unborn in the constitution. Apparently the right to life only exists when a woman doesn't or can't go abroad.

So will pro-choice then shut up about looking for the 8th amendment to be removed if the unborn's right to life is not vindicated in the constitution?

lazygal · 28-10-2014 7:54pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What a farce. Emergency contraception is readily available in Ireland. http://www.ifpa.ie/node/72 What is not readily available is abortion. That is the Law, as voted by several times by the people.

Emergency contraception is not always effective.

Is it still 1971 in Ireland? The contraceptive train still runs - Under another name.

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