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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread III

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  • 30-01-2014 12:17pm
    #1
    justsomebloke
    Registered Users Posts: 10,407 ✭✭✭✭


    carried on from here


«134567…335

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    #2
    ssaye2
    Registered Users Posts: 4,632 ✭✭✭ssaye2


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ2HcRl4wSk


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    #3
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    Just carrying on from the discussion on 10s, there was a settling in period when McKenzie took over the Aus team, but once that was over, Cooper has been absolutely excellent. Seems to have matured hugely, has been made a squad vice-captain, and imo on that form is easily one of the best 10s in the world. Has an ability to make something out of nothing that even Carter can't match imo. Carter has obviously played at an incredibly high level for a lot longer however. Cruden is another really excellent player who seamlessly stepped into the NZ team when Carter was out.


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    #4
    Teferi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,320 ✭✭✭Teferi


    From the last thread...
    .ak wrote: »
    Just noticed BOD is 3 caps away from matching Gregan's record, and 4 caps away from being the most capped player in history.

    If ever someone put the mockers on BOD, it was you in this moment.


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    #5
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    danthefan wrote: »
    Just carrying on from the discussion on 10s, there was a settling in period when McKenzie took over the Aus team,

    A lot of people were writing off Aus initially when McKenzie took over as their results were pretty dire, but they have been playing some great stuff recently. Hopefully Schmidt gets some leeway in terms of the number of games before people start expecting top quality performances, although the NZ game could work against him in that respect, people will have pretty high expectations based on that.


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    #6
    andymx11
    Registered Users Posts: 586 ✭✭✭andymx11


    Tox56 wrote: »
    A lot of people were writing off Aus initially when McKenzie took over as their results were pretty dire, but they have been playing some great stuff recently. Hopefully Schmidt gets some leeway in terms of the number of games before people start expecting top quality performances, although the NZ game could work against him in that respect, people will have pretty high expectations based on that.

    He might have it slightly easier considering he has worked with many of these players before however there should still be a good bit of leeway no matter what. The change from club to international should warrent that alone.


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    #7
    The Pheasant2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,699 ✭✭✭The Pheasant2


    I wonder if with Fitz gone there's a greater chance of Joe playing Madigan on the bench over Jackson to compensate for the loss in attacking threat


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    #8
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,439 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    The Pheasant2 wrote: »
    I wonder if with Fitz gone there's a greater chance of Joe playing Madigan on the bench over Jackson to compensate for the loss in attacking threat

    I really hope not. He hasn't been good enough this year.


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    #9
    19543261
    Registered Users Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭19543261


    awec wrote: »
    I really hope not. He hasn't been good enough this year.

    I dont think Madigan has been as bad as others do, but if Schimdt is creating an environment which rewards form, he'd be plainly undermining that if he left Jackson out. He wont do that.


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    #10
    who_me
    Registered Users Posts: 3,669 ✭✭✭who_me


    19543261 wrote: »
    I dont think Madigan has been as bad as others do, but if Schimdt is creating an environment which rewards form, he'd be plainly undermining that if he left Jackson out. He wont do that.

    Still, having a backup 10 - even if on excellent form - who isn't the first choice penalty kicker sets off all kinds of alarm bells in my head. If he's to be our backup - or future 1st choice - he needs to be taking the pressure kicks regularly in the big, must-win games.

    Taking the pressure off him at Ulster, then dumping it upon him tenfold for Ireland won't work.


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    #11
    freyners
    Registered Users Posts: 4,300 ✭✭✭freyners


    who_me wrote: »
    Still, having a backup 10 - even if on excellent form - who isn't the first choice penalty kicker sets off all kinds of alarm bells in my head. If he's to be our backup - or future 1st choice - he needs to be taking the pressure kicks regularly in the big, must-win games.

    Taking the pressure off him at Ulster, then dumping it upon him tenfold for Ireland won't work.

    McFadden could always take over if Joe feels hes not up to kicking. The idea that our ten has to kick is a bit out dated. Im sure Jackson is fine to kick though


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    #12
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    He's not kicked in the last 3 games, but he's been kicking (and well) for much of the season!

    http://www.ulsterrugby.com/team/profile.aspx?TeamID=101756&PersonID=155725


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    #13
    Clearlier
    Registered Users Posts: 4,454 ✭✭✭Clearlier


    freyners wrote: »
    McFadden could always take over if Joe feels hes not up to kicking. The idea that our ten has to kick is a bit out dated. Im sure Jackson is fine to kick though

    Even if we know that he's a good kicker, he rarely kicks for Leinster and even more rarely in pressure situations. If the lack of high pressure kicking experience is a problem for Jackson it's a bigger problem for McFadden.


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    #14
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Teferi wrote: »
    From the last thread...



    If ever someone put the mockers on BOD, it was you in this moment.

    I was wondering why nobody else was pointing it out...


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    #15
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,757 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    who_me wrote: »
    Still, having a backup 10 - even if on excellent form - who isn't the first choice penalty kicker sets off all kinds of alarm bells in my head. If he's to be our backup - or future 1st choice - he needs to be taking the pressure kicks regularly in the big, must-win games.

    Taking the pressure off him at Ulster, then dumping it upon him tenfold for Ireland won't work.

    Jackson has kicked loads this season. He was kicking in the first four HEC group matches ahead of Pienaar.


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    #16
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,564 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Clearlier wrote: »
    Even if we know that he's a good kicker, he rarely kicks for Leinster and even more rarely in pressure situations. If the lack of high pressure kicking experience is a problem for Jackson it's a bigger problem for McFadden.

    Jackson will be fine to kick but honestly I wouldn't have the slightest worry about McFadden stepping up. I've seen him have one bad game from the tee ever, and it was in horrendous conditions. I don't think he has the range that Sexton or Madigan would have but I think he's a more accurate kicker.


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    #17
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Jackson will be fine to kick but honestly I wouldn't have the slightest worry about McFadden stepping up. I've seen him have one bad game from the tee ever, and it was in horrendous conditions. I don't think he has the range that Sexton or Madigan would have but I think he's a more accurate kicker.

    He also had a rib injury that day IIRC. His percentages outside of that were excellent.


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    #18
    Kayless
    Registered Users Posts: 817 ✭✭✭Kayless


    Tox56 wrote: »
    A lot of people were writing off Aus initially when McKenzie took over as their results were pretty dire, but they have been playing some great stuff recently. Hopefully Schmidt gets some leeway in terms of the number of games before people start expecting top quality performances, although the NZ game could work against him in that respect, people will have pretty high expectations based on that.

    Aus were lucky enough to have so many games last year to bed in under Mckenzie.

    One thing I have noticed recently is that the provinces seem to be playing more and more like Ireland did during the AI's. It's hard to explain but for example the choke tackle and the driving maul are being utilised a lot more by the provinces. This is interesting because when you hear about Schmidt giving players "work ons" and take into account that we now have 3 teams in the last eight in europe, it would seem Schmidts influence on the players and these work ons have had an impact.

    My point is that even though Schmidt hasn't had the same amount of time with the Irish players as Mckenzie has had with the Aus players, he's has been able to get round these time constraints by making competition for places and giving players work ons, so that when they do arrive at Irelands training camps they are ready to go and know what they need to do. I don't think it's an accident that we have 3 provinces out of 4 in the last 8 in Europe, this to me is proof that not only do we have the players to win the 6 nations but more importantly we have the coach to win it.
    The Pheasant2 wrote: »
    I wonder if with Fitz gone there's a greater chance of Joe playing Madigan on the bench over Jackson to compensate for the loss in attacking threat

    Fitz is gone? Is he out for both games? Haven't seen anything about this.


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    #19
    former legend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭former legend


    Kayless wrote: »
    Fitz is gone? Is he out for both games? Haven't seen anything about this.

    Not confirmed but he allegedly has a groin strain that is going to keep him out.


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    #20
    Kayless
    Registered Users Posts: 817 ✭✭✭Kayless


    former legend wrote: »
    Not confirmed but he allegedly has a groin strain that is going to keep him out.

    Thats a shame, I was backing Fitz to have a go at the Scots with the way he has been playing recently. Lets hope he's back for Wales.

    I would love to see him and Bowe starting on the wings against England especially if both teams are going into the match with 2 wins. England have a few new caps on the wings and I think Fitz and Bowe are our most experienced wingers, would give us an advantage.


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    #21
    who_me
    Registered Users Posts: 3,669 ✭✭✭who_me


    Deleted User wrote: »
    He's not kicked in the last 3 games, but he's been kicking (and well) for much of the season!

    http://www.ulsterrugby.com/team/profile.aspx?TeamID=101756&PersonID=155725

    I don't doubt his ability/technique. But when the kicking duties are taken from him for the crunch pool ties (regardless of the reason, even if it's to "let him focus on his game" etc.), it leaves a big unknown. I wouldn't want him being brought on in a tight 6N game with a championship/Grand Slam at stake when he hasn't had kicking duties in all the HEC pool games.

    IMO, the constant pressure of taking those kicks would make him a better player.


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    #22
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,085 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    who_me wrote: »
    I don't doubt his ability/technique. But when the kicking duties are taken from him for the crunch pool ties (regardless of the reason, even if it's to "let him focus on his game" etc.), it leaves a big unknown. I wouldn't want him being brought on in a tight 6N game with a championship/Grand Slam at stake when he hasn't had kicking duties in all the HEC pool games.

    IMO, the constant pressure of taking those kicks would make him a better player.

    i think jackson has had enough pressure kicks over the last two years to leave him in a good place for this years 6N.


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    #23
    Rigor Mortis
    Registered Users Posts: 2,905 ✭✭✭Rigor Mortis


    to be fair to PJ i dont think kicking is an issue. I do think though having an option at 10, 12 and 15 in Madigan makes a very strong case for inclusion over Jackson though.


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    #24
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,085 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Rigor Mortis wrote: »
    to be fair to PJ i dont think kicking is an issue. I do think though having an option at 10, 12 and 15 in Madigan makes a very strong case for inclusion over Jackson though.

    mc fadden covers 12 and wings from bench, D Kearney cover 15 and has played a lot more at 15 than madigan.


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    #25
    jacothelad
    Registered Users Posts: 5,911 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    who_me wrote: »
    Still, having a backup 10 - even if on excellent form - who isn't the first choice penalty kicker sets off all kinds of alarm bells in my head. If he's to be our backup - or future 1st choice - he needs to be taking the pressure kicks regularly in the big, must-win games.

    Taking the pressure off him at Ulster, then dumping it upon him tenfold for Ireland won't work.

    Jackson took all the kicks for Ulster in every game he played up to the Munster, Montpellier and Tigers games. He is as much first choice kicker at Ulster as is Pienaar. Pienaar was away with S.A.until the first ERC game. Jackson kicked in the first 4 ERC games. This patronising rubbish about taking the pressure off him at Ulster is bilge and tired bilge at that. Actually Madigan being a better kicker is a more valid reason to bench than Pienaar kicking in a 3 games out of the 18 that Ulster have played so far this season. Pienaar can kick long range goals that very few can. He is on average no better a kicker than Jackson apart from distance. There is little between the two young lads. Jackson seems to run a back line and bring in others better. Madigan is more likely to do the unexpected. Toss of a coin.


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    #26
    The Pheasant2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,699 ✭✭✭The Pheasant2


    former legend wrote: »
    Not confirmed but he allegedly has a groin strain that is going to keep him out.

    It's one of his lower abdominal muscles, and without giving anything away I can confirm he'll be out for Scotland and most probably Wales


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    #27
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    jacothelad wrote: »
    Jackson took all the kicks for Ulster in every game he played up to the Munster, Montpellier and Tigers games. He is as much first choice kicker at Ulster as is Pienaar. Pienaar was away with S.A.until the first ERC game. Jackson kicked in the first 4 ERC games. This patronising rubbish about taking the pressure off him at Ulster is bilge and tired bilge at that. Actually Madigan being a better kicker is a more valid reason to bench than Pienaar kicking in a 3 games out of the 18 that Ulster have played so far this season. Pienaar can kick long range goals that very few can. He is on average no better a kicker than Jackson apart from distance. There is little between the two young lads. Jackson seems to run a back line and bring in others better. Madigan is more likely to do the unexpected. Toss of a coin.

    in the long term, yes, I don't think that either player will ever pull away from the other.

    In the short term, Jackson has been performing consistently and playing consistently. He's the better out half right now.


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    #28
    ScissorPaperRock
    Registered Users Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭ScissorPaperRock


    jacothelad wrote: »
    Pienaar can kick long range goals that very few can. He is on average no better a kicker than Jackson apart from distance.

    I wonder would Pienaar be at a disadvantage in terms of his kicking stats for his tendency to take on longer shots though.

    Not saying that as a slight on Jackson, I agree he's been kicking well. But it's no shame to have to share duties with Pienaar IMO.
    jacothelad wrote: »
    Jackson seems to run a back line and bring in others better. Madigan is more likely to do the unexpected. Toss of a coin.

    I'd say the value of the former is greater than the value of the latter. I'd rather have a well-functioning group of backs over the period of a game rather than be reliant on a moment of individual brilliance.


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    #29
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,439 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    ScissorPaperRock wrote: »
    I wonder would Pienaar's at a disadvantage in terms of his kicking stats for his tendency to take on longer shots though.

    Not saying that as a slight on Jackson, I agree he's been kicking well. But it's no shame to have to share duties with Pienaar IMO.

    It probably affects his stats a bit alright. Don't think it'd be a big lot though.


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    #30
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    jacothelad wrote: »
    This patronising rubbish about taking the pressure off him at Ulster is bilge and tired bilge at that. He is on average no better a kicker than Jackson apart from distance.

    If that is the case, then should Schmidt not insist that Ulster let Jackson take the kicks within his range for the big games? I don't know what prompted the change from the first 4 H Cup games, but kickers do need to practice kicking under extreme pressure to be able to perform in those conditions, particularly a 22 year old like Jackson.


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    #31
    dr.kenneth noisewater
    Registered Users Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭dr.kenneth noisewater


    The Pheasant2 wrote: »
    It's one of his lower abdominal muscles, and without giving anything away I can confirm he'll be out for Scotland and most probably Wales

    Tough break on him again after the last couple seasons.


This discussion has been closed.
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