Mayo GAA Discussion Thread

A lot of negative reaction to yesterday's game, but the league ain't so important to Mayo at this stage.
They will be peaking July-September, have no doubt.

It was a good run in Croke Park in a tight game, and a bit of a kick of the @rse for players like AOS.

Horan has experimented a bit, which is the right thing to do.
Gibbons look a useful option at midfield.
I'd have no worries about Higgins at corner back in the championship, if he plays there, so maybe better to give him a bit more experience at half forward.

Mayo will be a different animal later in the summer, and (I assume) Cillian O'Connor will be back who is the main scorer.

I still think that if O'Connor and Freeman did not get injured in or before the final last year, Mayo would have won.
They can do it.

Jason Gibbons (9) long arms were hard at work yesterday and will feature again in the coming months, some serious accurate running followed by blocking.
Got to watch the points, there were a few goal shots that were deffo match winning points.
Hennellys kickouts were 20-30 meters longer than the other goalies and is a huge advantage to us.
I think the lads looked tired at the end but its the only way to get championship fit, run run run and keep running until the muscles do it automatically. I believe they are getting there and there was some lovely flair shown yesterday along with an increased ball capture on kickouts.

Gary Neville wrote: »

I'm a long suffering Cork Football Supporter and like Mayo, we had a very poor day at CP yesterday. Carlsberg don't do collapses but if they did........ And like Mayo we've had far more bad days than good days at CP so I know how you are feeling today.

This is completely incorrect, particularly in my time. Mayo have won a lot more than they've lost in Croke Park, and for Christ's sake it's only 4 years since Cork were AI champions.

GBXI wrote: »

This is completely incorrect, particularly in my time. Mayo have won a lot more than they've lost in Croke Park, and for Christ's sake it's only 4 years since Cork were AI champions.

You are missing my point - in the last 7 years Cork have lost 2 finals, 2 semis and 2 QF's in CP - we won 1 final. Obviously we won more than we lost but I'm only concerned about the big games and we've not had a good record in those.

Mayo are the same - with a poor record in the really big games - my question about belief still stands.

GBXI wrote: »

I'm just sick of the same bullsh1t questions being asked, particularly of Mayo, but in this case Cork too. Mayo have a very good record in "big games", especially in recent times, and in every final since 89', bar maybe '96 they have been the underdogs. There is absolutely no lack of belief in the Mayo team - of that there is no doubt.

I highly doubt there is any lack of belief in the Cork team either. The reasons that games are won and lost are a lot more complex than what you're suggesting.

OK - well at least you've given an answer. But come on - not even a teeney, weeney bit of doubt, at this stage ? At least Kieran Shannon is doing a hell of a job.

keane2097 wrote: »

This seems to me all obviously correct, but when it comes to building a narrative that stirs people up and sells newspapers facts are an irrelevance.

It boils down to the idea that the only games that count as "big" are the ones the team of supposed bottlers lost. You think of Mayo deciding to warm up in front of the Hill and outfighting Dublin - that was one of the biggest GAA occasions I've ever seen and Mayo showed unbelievable character to win it, does that ever feature in discussions about their bottle? Nope, instead the fact that they performed to expectation in losing to a vastly superior Kerry is somehow evidence that they just didn't have the stones.

Same for Cork, who have produced some unbelievable performances in massive games, vs Tyrone in the 09 semi-final one that comes to mind, but again if a team has the label of bottlers the only games that are considered are the ones they lose.

Conversely, a team like Tyrone, who were beaten by worse teams (sometimes worse by a distance) every year they didn't win the AI in the 00s, yet are thought of as a big game team because of the ones they won with no mind paid to those they lost.

As DDC posted a while ago, the whole bottlers thing is just noooooooonsense.

Aw come on Keane. Cork were very nervous in 2010 and beat an average Down side (Div 2 then) by 1 pt. The failures in the previous 3 years (lost 2 finals and 1 semi) obviously weighed very heavy on Cork minds. If they had lost in 2010, it's very likely that it could have broken their mental resolve for good.

Lots of people are now questioning Mayo's resolve and it's not just journos trying to sell newspapers - Paddy Power has Mayo now out to 11/2 to win Sam (joint 2nd favourites with Cork)

It's a legitimate question and I believe that it must be giving cause for concern.

Gary Neville wrote: »

Aw come on Keane. Cork were very nervous in 2010 and beat an average Down side (Div 2 then) by 1 pt. The failures in the previous 3 years (lost 2 finals and 1 semi) obviously weighed very heavy on Cork minds. If they had lost in 2010, it's very likely that it could have broken their mental resolve for good.

So come on, realistically here what you're saying is they were bottlers in 2010 who won even though they were bottlers. Can you actually be a bottler and still win? Like say Cork should have beaten Down by 10 points but only won by a point?

Are Kerry bottlers for losing to Tyrone and Dublin in AI finals? Or again is it only the games Kerry win that we look at because the narrative is generally not that they are bottlers?

Gary Neville wrote: »

Lots of people are now questioning Mayo's resolve and it's not just journos trying to sell newspapers - Paddy Power has Mayo now out to 11/2 to win Sam (joint 2nd favourites with Cork)

It's a legitimate question and I believe that it must be giving cause for concern.

Mayo are 11/2 to win the All Ireland, right. What price were they before the off last season? It was more like 16/1 IIRC. Would seem to suggest that getting to within a kick of a ball of winning it was way above what they should have been able to do, no?

What about their AI semi-final last year? A game they were expected to win, but ended up being put to a massive test by Tyrone, rode it out and ended up cruising to victory with the likes of Alan Freeman, Tom Cunniffe and Colm Boyle showing a massive unwillingness to crack under pressure.

Does that come into the analysis at all? Like I said, when it comes to Mayo, bottle is only invoked when they lose despite their enormous overachievements in getting to so many finals with so many average teams (2013 aside, but they were still beaten by a better squad).

Ascii wrote: »

Am I the only one that feels the league is over and management still do not know their best starting 15 players. I have always said that the FBD was a chance to bring in 10-12 fringe players and give them some game time but as soon as the league started your mind needed to be made up on two or three more players per game as the 7 games progressed. It seems like we are going to New York in three weeks and JH does not know his best/starting fifteen players. I feel the last league game or two followed by league semi/league final should be your chance to get your team in a routine of playing together.

From following the league JH seems to be definite about 2-Caff, 5-Lee, 6-Donal, 7-Boyler, 10-Higgins and 14-Freeman. I know we are waiting on a few injured players who will probably automatically slot in Barrett + COC but IMO management should have the another positions nailed down and get these lads working together in the AvB games. We have spent 8 league games tinkering with 5 midfielders (AOS, SOS, JG, TP, BM) and he still does not know his best two.. All have offered something different.

I think keith's best place is in the back line. I feel this experiment has run its course. I would love to see has someone like AOS the potential to fill the No. 11 jersey. I also think Feeney should have had more of a run in that spot. Bringing him on with one minute to go yesterday was pointless and serves no purpose. I have good time for JH and the lads on the line, but sometimes question their decisions.

I can see us hitting the Rossies in June with 15 players who have not played any competitive games as a unit with a distinct possibility of struggling for large parts of the game.

Would fully agree with this unfortunately. In Horans defence there have been injuries, loss of form, a necessity to continue experimenting. But yes it is more unsettled at this stage than I would like.
With an unsettled team I can't see how we're maximizing training as you suggested.
I'd like our half forwards on their 500th repetition of 'Get it to Freezer' and 'Get it to Cillian' various plays like that come August. Basically make our half forward play instinctive and automatic. Not the current malaise where players are gaining possession and it's make it up as you go along.
This was where I thought we were headed this year in terms of advancing the preparation especially with Buckley involved and his background in researching other sports like American football which are huge about training ground pre-rehearsal. Where a team is fully versed in specific plays.
Gaelic Football is not as easy to set-piece like American football but like we do know we will have x number of posessions at half forward left wing/central/right wing. I thought now we'd be at the stage of having decoy runners, setups to free up Gibbons through the middle. Without a settled 15 we can't make that step. Would be devastating if we could. It's ahead of the curve I think on where training/tactics are headed.

keane2097 wrote: »

So come on, realistically here what you're saying is they were bottlers in 2010 who won even though they were bottlers. Can you actually be a bottler and still win? Like say Cork should have beaten Down by 10 points but only won by a point?

Are Kerry bottlers for losing to Tyrone and Dublin in AI finals? Or again is it only the games Kerry win that we look at because the narrative is generally not that they are bottlers?



Mayo are 11/2 to win the All Ireland, right. What price were they before the off last season? It was more like 16/1 IIRC. Would seem to suggest that getting to within a kick of a ball of winning it was way above what they should have been able to do, no?

What about their AI semi-final last year? A game they were expected to win, but ended up being put to a massive test by Tyrone, rode it out and ended up cruising to victory with the likes of Alan Freeman, Tom Cunniffe and Colm Boyle showing a massive unwillingness to crack under pressure.

Does that come into the analysis at all? Like I said, when it comes to Mayo, bottle is only invoked when they lose despite their enormous overachievements in getting to so many finals with so many average teams (2013 aside, but they were still beaten by a better squad).

I'm not sure whether you've properly read what I've said. I've never used the word 'Bottlers' in regard to any GAA IC side. I have the utmost admiration for the level of effort these guys make for the love of the game and their county.

Cork were very nervous in 2010 - IMO this was due to the fear of another heart breaking failure - Cork met Down in the c/ship afterwards on 2 occasions and beat them comfortably. There was a huge sense of relief when they finally made the break-through.

I do not think for one moment that Mayo are bottlers - they have some of the finest footballers of the current generation - Lee Keegan is the best HB in the country by a long way IMO.

My question was whether the failures at the final hurdle, so often, would shatter the self belief of the present group of players. The recent failures v Dublin and Derry only add to this theory. I sincerely hope that it Cork are eliminated that Mayo win Sam. However, even the most Die-hard Mayo Supporterts must be asking questions

Anyone feel that A Morans role does nothing for the team or the style of play. Robbing ourselves of a corner forward to let him roam back to the halfway line to collect the ball, bring it ten yards and then pump a high ball into the 2 player full forward line looking for a loose man is not a style of play that yields much dividends. I always felt that he was much more dangerous being in the corner where you could send low ball into him where he was effective at turning and shooting. 50% of the time you get the push in the back and you will get the free out of it. I have not over examined the mayo league games on the whole but on Sunday last we persisted with sending high balls into Sweeney and varley when he came on...prob two of the shortest men in the team....high balls they were never going to get.

The other thing we seem to be getting progressively bad at is carrying the ball into the tackle. SOS in the last minute against Dublin and AOS in the last two minutes against Derry. While Buckley had taught them the art of tacking successfully, it also brings with it a belief that particularly when you are a large strong player, you can take the ball into the tackle and not cough it up. While this does suck in two or there defenders, you need to be extremely accurate at releasing the ball back to the freeman which is where we suffer. It stifles the game IMO and is less productive when compared to the stlye of game where the ball is moved on fast in advance of the tackle.

In National school when we trained you were only allowed one solo-one hop and you had to release the ball and move it on, regardless how much space you had...it promoted a faster game and stopped the big strong lads keeping the ball and gave the rest of us a chance :-) Must have worked. We won the Cumman na Mbunscoil in 89 :-) :-)

Ascii wrote: »

Anyone feel that A Morans role does nothing for the team or the style of play. Robbing ourselves of a corner forward to let him roam back to the halfway line to collect the ball, bring it ten yards and then pump a high ball into the 2 player full forward line looking for a loose man is not a style of play that yields much dividends. I always felt that he was much more dangerous being in the corner where you could send low ball into him where he was effective at turning and shooting. 50% of the time you get the push in the back and you will get the free out of it. I have not over examined the mayo league games on the whole but on Sunday last we persisted with sending high balls into Sweeney and varley when he came on...prob two of the shortest men in the team....high balls they were never going to get.

The other thing we seem to be getting progressively bad at is carrying the ball into the tackle. SOS in the last minute against Dublin and AOS in the last two minutes against Derry. While Buckley had taught them the art of tacking successfully, it also brings with it a belief that particularly when you are a large strong player, you can take the ball into the tackle and not cough it up. While this does suck in two or there defenders, you need to be extremely accurate at releasing the ball back to the freeman which is where we suffer. It stifles the game IMO and is less productive when compared to the stlye of game where the ball is moved on fast in advance of the tackle.

In National school when we trained you were only allowed one solo-one hop and you had to release the ball and move it on, regardless how much space you had...it promoted a faster game and stopped the big strong lads keeping the ball and gave the rest of us a chance :-) Must have worked. We won the Cumman na Mbunscoil in 89 :-) :-)

Andy was good in that corner forward role but the cruciate injury has robbed him of pace, which ruins his ability to be out in front and his turning ability even worse. The corner backs that are around now are all speed merchants that would be first to the ball.
Fully agree with you about us carrying the ball into the tackle. Hardly any benefit to it. Only benefit would be AOS/SOS attempting to burst past coverage close to goal in order to setup a certain score/free. But out the field it is not something we should be doing.
Yes played that one solo one hop game, it's all you should need even in a proper game unless you break into major space.
My attacking 8 based on league form and consistency over last few seasons:
Midfield - Jason Gibbons (attacking midfielder, accurate and a goal threat)AOS (Defensive midfielder, great at turnovers and can block up the centre. Needs an effective and consistent role that does not involve running 45 to 45 type play. We're asking too much of his limited stamina. For kickouts could move out, for opposition kickouts marks his man.)
Half forwards:
- Adam Gallagher (Aerial ability and accurate. Good passer. High energy)
- Cillian OConnor (Consistent is the key thing, we can rely on him from game to game. Will win 50:50's (he's even bigger now), will pass well and chip in with scores
Kevin McGloughlin (completely free licence to roam to defence/midfield and support attacks. He's the guy who tidies things up as a link man. Good passer inside to full forwards)
Full forwards:
Sweeney - Has proved his accuracy
Freeman - Needs good ball
Seamus OShea - Place him back as a 3rd defensive midfielder around centre back. With Kevin McGloughlin supporting attacks opposition defence won't have that much of an outnumbering.
With that team I think you solve the issue of opposition running through our centre. You also solve the inconsistency problem at half forward by putting Cillian there supported by two high energy players who can pass well.