IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

BoatMad · 18-11-2014 12:14am

Streetwalker wrote: »

The working class who usually didn't give a hoot about politics and corrupt governments have awoken. That will be the governments downfall.

Unfortunately no revolution is ever won or led by the "working class", its a fact of life.

This issue will die down just like the bin charges and the LPT.

donvito99 · 18-11-2014 12:15am

tayto lover wrote: »

How much does he pay in USC, PRSI, Pension Levies, Insurance and Health Levies, VAT, VRT etc etc. Please ask him and come back and tell us.

He pays over 50% in income tax (state, municipal, health all thrown in).

The difference is that the Danes are responsible and we - especially these protesters - will see this country into the ground once again.

Buford T Justice · 18-11-2014 12:16am

Varadkar came out and said it plain as day - You'll all end up paying for it in the end.

Streetwalker · 18-11-2014 12:16am

BoatMad wrote: »

Unfortunately no revolution is ever won or led by the "working class", its a fact of life.

This issue will die down just like the bin charges and the LPT.

If you think that then you mustn't be from around my way. This won't die down before the government falls

BoatMad · 18-11-2014 12:17am

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

At least if you're on a group scheme pretty much the bare minimum required to run the service is used. If you sign up to Irish Water you are paying for all sorts of irrelevant and unnecessary office-based consulting and liaising work that some high up fella thinks is necessary.

Leaving aside the fact that most Groups schemes were in fact "taken in charge" by the county councils, because financially they couldn't survive , nor maintain nor replace their infrastructure, that was initially provided by a grant of public money anyway.

Streetwalker · 18-11-2014 12:17am

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Varadkar came out and said it plain as day - You'll all end up paying for it in the end.

No chance

vicwatson · 18-11-2014 12:17am

donvito99 wrote: »

But paying for what exactly, where are the infrastructural improvements we've been paying for through general taxation?

Ask your local Government representative that one.

the groutch · 18-11-2014 12:17am

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

He did very well. Very articulate, and really explained the issues succinctly and convincingly. Easily batted away the questions aimed at putting him under pressure - and really answered them, not just by waffle and avoidance.
I would say he both won a lot of fans and swung people round to supporting what they are doing. Impressive guy.

Hi Enda

Buford T Justice · 18-11-2014 12:18am

Streetwalker wrote: »

No chance

Perhaps, but it goes to show their arrogance. Smacks of FF back in their day.

Augmerson · 18-11-2014 12:18am

donvito99 wrote: »

The difference is that the Danes are responsible and we - especially these protesters - will see this country into the ground once again.

Once again? When was the last time?

Sh1tbag OToole · 18-11-2014 12:18am

BoatMad wrote: »

Unfortunately no revolution is ever won or led by the "working class", its a fact of life.

This issue will die down just like the bin charges and the LPT.

This time its different

The final straw in the bale made entirely of final straws. Now if our overlords find a good excuse to bring the Revenue hound out, everyone will sh1t their pants once again and pay up

gandalf · 18-11-2014 12:18am

Streetwalker wrote: »

The working class who usually didn't give a hoot about politics and corrupt governments have awoken. That will be the governments downfall.

Actually I would disagree with you. It is the middle class who have been squeezed and squeezed for taxes who are the ones who are being moved to protest and given they do vote in droves they will bring about the Governments downfall. This is why they are now panicking and making major concessions and changes to what was originally proposed because they know they have pissed off the people who do regularly vote.

Unfortunately the working class, students and the young tend not to vote in the same numbers. If this whole mess changes this situation then that will be one major positive to come from it.

BoatMad · 18-11-2014 12:18am

Streetwalker wrote: »

If you think that then you mustn't be from around my way. This won't die down before the government falls

yeah they will, people have to earn crust, eat , sleep and ultimately get on with their lives. A few "dedicated/hard-liners" will try and keep the flame alive.

People are easily bought off, look at every general election.

The bizarre thing is how the Gov didn't see this coming !

BoatMad · 18-11-2014 12:21am

Streetwalker wrote: »

No chance

so you want your neighbour to pay for your water or the guy across the road,

more of the "gimme free things " society

partially the middle classes are protesting cause they have been paying for all these "freebies" for too long.

donvito99 · 18-11-2014 12:22am

vicwatson wrote: »

Ask your local Government representative that one.

Yeah, they pissed it away on roads. Ask a civil engineer in the DCC water department and he'll tell you we'd need to spend twice as much to bring our water infrastructure up to scratch.

Delusional.

BoatMad · 18-11-2014 12:25am

donvito99 wrote: »

Yeah, they pissed it away on roads. Ask a civil engineer in the DCC water department and he'll tell you we'd need to spend twice as much to bring our water infrastructure up to scratch.

Delusional.

we needed the roads, again its all down to a country too immature to pay for its infrastructure.

Gringo180 · 18-11-2014 12:26am

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Varadkar came out and said it plain as day - You'll all end up paying for it in the end.

Maybe so, but once Irish water is disbanded ill be happy.

Streetwalker · 18-11-2014 12:26am

BoatMad wrote: »

so you want your neighbour to pay for your water or the guy across the road,

more of the "gimme free things " society

partially the middle classes are protesting cause they have been paying for all these "freebies" for too long.

If they want to pay that's their right. It's my right to not pay.

gandalf · 18-11-2014 12:27am

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Varadkar came out and said it plain as day - You'll all end up paying for it in the end.

But we already are paying for it.

What a lot of people are incensed about is that they are paying for snouts to be firmly entrenched in another state funded trough.

People are worried that there is no real guarantee that our water infrastructure won't be sold off to the highest bidder in a couple of years time.

I am disgusted that far from addressing the waste and duplication in our Public Services this Government are hell bent on creating more waste and expecting it to be funded by more taxes from the usual suspects.

The only people who don't pay for water in this state are the long term unemployed who rent their homes and don't operate a motor vehicle!

donvito99 · 18-11-2014 12:28am

Streetwalker wrote: »

If they want to pay that's their right. It's my right to not pay.

And conversely it's the governments right to penalise you not doing so. Says so right there in the Constitution.

SaveOurLyric · 18-11-2014 12:29am

gandalf wrote: »

But we already are paying for it.

Yes. And now the method by which you will pay for it is being changed.

18-11-2014 12:29am

I'm watching VB. It turns out that the brick throwing incident had nothing to do with the water protesters.

MouseTail · 18-11-2014 12:29am

Paul Murphy admitting on vinny he lost control of the crowd and there was 'elements of a riot'.

My name is URL · 18-11-2014 12:31am

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I'm watching VB. It turns out that the brick throwing incident had nothing to do with the water protesters.

That was mentioned in the Sunday Times yesterday. Apparently it happened after someone with an outstanding warrant was arrested, and the water protesters had dispersed.

Didn't read it myself as I don't have a subscription, but the article was by Frank Fitzgibbon

Here's a tweet from him about it

https://twitter.com/FrankSunTimes/status/533756408475295744

omega man · 18-11-2014 12:31am

tayto lover wrote: »

Far too much austerity being pushed onto an already screwed population.
They have had enough.

Yes but that's how a country exits a major recession unfortunately. If the recovery is maintained and there is no retraction of austerity then yes their time is over and the reigns will be handed over to a more understanding and rewarding government. What's the political alternative as we speak?

dxhound2005 · 18-11-2014 12:32am

MouseTail wrote: »

Paul Murphy admitting on vinny he lost control of the crowd and there was 'elements of a riot'.

I'm not watching. But I would say they are a well matched pair. Two products of fee paying private education, latterly heroes of the revolution.

AboutaWeekAgo · 18-11-2014 12:32am

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Yes. And now the method by which you will pay for it is being changed.

If that's the case will the taxes that have been paying for it up to now be taken away or will we just be paying double?

drynne · 18-11-2014 12:32am

Streetwalker wrote: »

For the umpteenth time we already pay for water.

We also pay for the fire service in tax. So why do people get landed with a €500 bill for a call out?

We also pay motor tax for maintenance of roads so why am I avoiding pot holes on roads?

What we pay for water is barely keeping an antiquated system running. To get the water infrastructure in this country to where it needs to be it needs investment. Boil notices all over the country, over 40% treated water lost through leaks. Government needs the cash to develop it.

donvito99 · 18-11-2014 12:33am

omega man wrote: »

What's the political alternative as we speak?

Reverse the gains made in the public finances and the confidence now plain to see in the economy.

Buford T Justice · 18-11-2014 12:33am

gandalf wrote: »

But we already are paying for it.

What a lot of people are incensed about is that they are paying for snouts to be firmly entrenched in another state funded trough.

People are worried that there is no real guarantee that our water infrastructure won't be sold off to the highest bidder in a couple of years time.

I am disgusted that far from addressing the waste and duplication in our Public Services this Government are hell bent on creating more waste and expecting it to be funded by more taxes from the usual suspects.

The only people who don't pay for water in this state are the long term unemployed who rent their homes and don't operate a motor vehicle!

I don't dispute this, I'm making reference to his arrogance about the fact that he's inferring that you (the people) can kick and scream all you want but you'll all end up paying for it anyway.

Streetwalker · 18-11-2014 12:33am

MouseTail wrote: »

Paul Murphy admitting on vinny he lost control of the crowd and there was 'elements of a riot'.

Paul Murphy was doing crowd control? Jesus he must be hard up.

BoatMad · 18-11-2014 12:35am

gandalf wrote: »

But we already are paying for it.

You don't get it do you, the fact is you ar'nt already paying for it, the infrastructure is collapsing.

What a lot of people are incensed about is that they are paying for snouts to be firmly entrenched in another state funded trough

.

yes, but the monies here are not the problem,( they are small in comparison) the narrow tax base is.

People are worried that there is no real guarantee that our water infrastructure won't be sold off to the highest bidder in a couple of years time

To be honest so what, its not like the semi states don't charge the arse of us anyway, I couldn't care less. At least a private company wouldn't be shackled with the nonsense that is all these CC workers

I am disgusted that far from addressing the waste and duplication in our Public Services this Government are hell bent on creating more waste and expecting it to be funded by more taxes from the usual suspects.

Yes, but there will always be some waste, its a complicated task to balance.

The only people who don't pay for water in this state are the long term unemployed who rent their homes and don't operate a motor vehicle!

Again you don't get it, there is a budget deficit, the taxes collected DO NOT pay for the system the country is running. one way or the other , if you want those systems , you will have to pay for it

The is no free lunch, which you seem to ignore.

Streetwalker · 18-11-2014 12:35am

donvito99 wrote: »

And conversely it's the governments right to penalise you not doing so. Says so right there in the Constitution.

Bring it on. Won't be just me they have to chase for it

donvito99 · 18-11-2014 12:36am

AboutaWeekAgo wrote: »

If that's the case will the taxes that have been paying for it up to now be taken away or will we just be paying double?

Yes. It's an increase in taxes. Ultimately, it will mean people who use more water will pay more in water charges, and income tax rates will come down.

You'd swear people have been trapped in a lift for 6 years.

gladrags · 18-11-2014 12:36am

My name is URL wrote: »

Paul Murphy on Vincent Browne now

No doubt in for quite a grilling

Yep

To be honest there was a lot of damage done,replayed video was ugly.

Burton getting hit was uglier,baloon or not.

Gringo180 · 18-11-2014 12:36am

drynne wrote: »

What we pay for water is barely keeping an antiquated system running. To get the water infrastructure in this country to where it needs to be it needs investment. Boil notices all over the country, over 40% treated water lost through leaks. Government needs the cash to develop it.

If Apple, Google, Facebook etc. paid a fraction of the tax the working class did we would have had enough money ten times over. It is unfair to hit people who havent got it with more taxes/charges.

BoatMad · 18-11-2014 12:37am

Streetwalker wrote: »

Bring it on. Won't be just me they have to chase for it

Just another freeloader, paid for by the rest of us. ( ps remember the LPT ( can't pay wont pay, can't pay wont pay.......can pay will pay , can pay will pay, 95% compliance)

gandalf · 18-11-2014 12:37am

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Yes. And now the method by which you will pay for it is being changed.

So we will see the reciprocal reduction in other taxes then yes?

I don't believe that has been promised by the Government. Can you show me where this has been stated?

SaveOurLyric · 18-11-2014 12:37am

AboutaWeekAgo wrote: »

If that's the case will the taxes that have been paying for it up to now be taken away or will we just be paying double?

Both really. Yes the diversion of general tax revenue to water services will stop so you will not be paying that way.
And yes, we will be paying double. Which is good news since it will bring the payment up to the correct level for a good sustainable service rather than the underfunded infrastructure the current system was only half funding. What you will pay over the next ten years is also paying for what you didnt pay over the last 30 years.

BoatMad · 18-11-2014 12:39am

Gringo180 wrote: »

If Apple, Google, Facebook etc. paid a fraction of the tax the working class did we would have had enough money ten times over. It is unfair to hit people who havent got it with more taxes/charges.

No they simply would move to another country and not only would we not get whatever millions they play, we'd looses all the tax from the workers and have to find SW for them.

see "mobile capital" in any reasonable dictionary

seriously you cant believe the nonsense

fullstop · 18-11-2014 12:39am

Gringo180 wrote: »

If Apple, Google, Facebook etc. paid a fraction of the tax the working class did we would have had enough money ten times over. It is unfair to hit people who havent got it with more taxes/charges.

If Apple, Google etc are told they have to pay more taxes, they'll just piss off back to America and the jobs will be lost, so it's a bit of a pickle that one.

BoatMad · 18-11-2014 12:40am

gandalf wrote: »

So we will see the reciprocal reduction in other taxes then yes?

I don't believe that has been promised by the Government. Can you show me where this has been stated?

well the 100 quid is a start

but ultimately we have to pay more tax , this is just one way.

donvito99 · 18-11-2014 12:40am

gandalf wrote: »

I don't believe that has been promised by the Government. Can you show me where this has been stated?

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2014/0919/644947-income-tax-change/

It's pretty obvious that income tax levels will come down as the burden eases and the political reality for the government becomes more stark.

So in a few years, income taxes will fall, and those who pay more are the ones who waste more water.

Seems like a good idea for me.

SaveOurLyric · 18-11-2014 12:40am

gandalf wrote: »

So we will see the reciprocal reduction in other taxes then yes?

I don't believe that has been promised by the Government. Can you show me where this has been stated?

It doesnt need to be. It happens automatically. If the government stops transferring part of your taxes to water services, then you arent paying for water through your taxes. So of course, taxes can come down, or be diverted to something else for you.

omega man · 18-11-2014 12:41am

Gringo180 wrote: »

If Apple, Google, Facebook etc. paid a fraction of the tax the working class did we would have had enough money ten times over. It is unfair to hit people who havent got it with more taxes/charges.

And thousands less jobs. Not saying you're wrong but it's worth pointing out.

dav3 · 18-11-2014 12:41am

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Both really. Yes the diversion of general tax revenue to water services will stop so you will not be paying that way.
And yes, we will be paying double. Which is good news since it will bring the payment up to the correct level for a good sustainable service rather than the underfunded infrastructure the current system was only half funding. What you will pay over the next ten years is also paying for what you didnt pay over the last 30 years.

Oh dear, you're not so naive as to think all this extra revenue will be put into infrastructure repairs are you?

James esq · 18-11-2014 12:42am

The water company will go the same way as the Eircom privatization, instead of investment successive owners will progressively asset strip all €40Bn assets that are already there and currently owned by the Irish people.

This "off the books" argument, is very wrong on a number of different levels. Firstly it portrays the a sort of nudge nudge wink wink type of vibe saying that any further expenses should really be on the books but were are doing it this way to exploit a sort of false accounting and secondly it will enable future private owners to obtain funds not necessarily and probably not for use in strengthening the water infrastructure, existing assets will be used as collateral to buy unrelated assets elsewhere.

I have been listening to all the same burnt out and for the most part penniless economists supporting this privatization in the hope of getting some crumbs from the fat cats table. They remind me of that genius "garret the good" who at 63 put every penny he had on on the disaster aviation floatation.

I don't mind paying for water, as I have been doing this all my working life through taxation, I do object to giving a €40Bn donation to an unknown private investor.

Streetwalker · 18-11-2014 12:42am

BoatMad wrote: »

Just another freeloader, paid for by the rest of us.

Yeap. I employ 4 people and ive worked since i left school in 1990. A freeloader lol.

How much tax you pay last year friend?

donvito99 · 18-11-2014 12:42am

dav3 wrote: »

Oh dear, you're not so naive as to think all this extra revenue will be put into infrastructure repairs are you?

And you're naive enough to think we can pay for it presently... jebus

Gringo180 · 18-11-2014 12:43am

BoatMad wrote: »

No they simply would move to another country and not only would we not get whatever millions they play, we'd looses all the tax from the workers and have to find SW for them.

see "mobile capital" in any reasonable dictionary

seriously you cant believe the nonsense

So you think paying less than 1% tax on billions of euros of profit is fair?

IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

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