Gotham (Fox) [ Spoilers ]

krudler · 26-09-2014 7:14pm

stiffler123 wrote: »

Can they use any Batman villain they want in this? Would be cool to see Harley Quinn in it at some point.

Nah she's only in it because she falls for the Joker after she's his psychiatrist in Arkham, and Joker won't be in it for a long time, if ever so there's no point putting her in.

Soft Falling Rain · 26-09-2014 7:31pm

They could very well introduce her as a psychiatrist with very questionable boundaries and ethics. It could play well into Gordon's frustration with the system.

krudler · 26-09-2014 11:31pm

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

They could very well introduce her as a psychiatrist with very questionable boundaries and ethics. It could play well into Gordon's frustration with the system.

She'd be way too young though, no point bringing her in as an adult because by the time Bruce becomes Batman she'd be too old

That_Guy · 28-09-2014 6:53pm

Didn't really like the opening episode to be honest. Way too many future villains shoved in.

Dialogue was quite forced and really painful to listen to at times. Looked a bit cheap too especially when Gordon is chasing Ivy's dad and that weird camera shot they decided to use.

I'll give it another episode or two but it can only get better.

Ridley · 29-09-2014 1:04am

ShaneU wrote: »

She'd only be about 5 years old in this

Great, she can show up with chocolate smeared all over her face at a circus while waiting to see the clowns and her parents can ask if she wants more pudding.

RobbingBandit · 29-09-2014 3:42am

Ridley wrote: »

Great, she can show up with chocolate smeared all over her face at a circus while waiting to see the clowns and her parents can ask if she wants more puddin.

FYP

Kirby · 29-09-2014 9:37am

I had to read that eight times to find what you fixed.

Then I got it. And laughed.

pixelburp · 29-09-2014 11:47pm

I dunno, while I wasn't blown away by the pilot myself, I'm slightly surprised by the generally negative reaction towards it; it feels a little premature to jump ship from a show this early, before it has had a chance to find its groove. Genre TV in particular need time to establish their universes, and although Gotham's pilot seemed like a lazy & uncreative attempt to lay the groundwork for its own universe, hopefully it'll serve the broader plots so they can grow and unfold organically over the series' run. Hopefully. The pilot had its problems, but I'm willing to give Gotham a chance to limber up and find its own pace.

syklops · 29-09-2014 11:58pm

pixelburp wrote: »

I dunno, while I wasn't blown away by the pilot myself, I'm slightly surprised by the generally negative reaction towards it; it feels a little premature to jump ship from a show this early, before it has had a chance to find its groove. Genre TV in particular need time to establish their universes, and although Gotham's pilot seemed like a lazy & uncreative attempt to lay the groundwork for its own universe, hopefully it'll serve the broader plots so they can grow and unfold organically over the series' run. Hopefully. The pilot had its problems, but I'm willing to give Gotham a chance to limber up and find its own pace.

Im not giving up yet but thats mainly because there is so little quality on at the moment. Right this minute, Im watching Stargate Atlantis.

krudler · 30-09-2014 2:32am

Yeesh, not much better this week. Some truly awful dialogue, If it's not good by next week's episode that's me done with it.

Basq · 30-09-2014 10:05am

Lasted 14 minutes through the first episode and switched it off..

.. horrible dialogue with McKenzie and Logue absolutely hamming it up!

Will wait til mid-season to see if it improves but for the time being, i'm out!

Mark Hamill · 30-09-2014 10:54am

Have they said if they are going to keep it realistic (like Nolans Films) or will they bring in supernatural elements?

_Kaiser_ · 30-09-2014 11:24am

Watched the first one and unlike the others here talking about the dialogue, I don't think that was what .. well, not put me off necessarily (it got better as it went on) but it didn't hook me either. Maybe we've all just been spoiled by the Nolan films?

Will watch the latest one tonight and see how I feel. It's probably not fair to write it off on a pilot alone, but to be honest though, I thought that Scorpion was a lot more entertaining in terms of new shows last week.

TwoShedsJackson · 30-09-2014 1:35pm

Liked episode 2, settling down a bit.

NinjaTruncs · 30-09-2014 1:40pm

I think the first week was affected by them trying to put far too much into 50 minutes, it really should have been a double episode if they insisted on covering every villian.

Haven't seen the second episode yet, hopefully it improves.

Alfred Borden · 30-09-2014 3:51pm

Second episode is a big improvement imo

Agent Coulson · 30-09-2014 4:02pm

I feel it still isn't sure what it wants to be..Dark and Gritty or Comic Book Camp and it's stuck in the middle at the moment.

That is fair enough I believe it takes time to build new versions of character we all know.

I won't write it off till at least midseason when it should be starting to find it feet.

Unlike Agents of Shield which was held back story wise because of the bigger MCU story Gotham doesn't anything holding back.

Episode 2..Did anyone else notice the hints that Bullock was this weeks hint at being Joker or was it just me.

BlitzKrieg · 30-09-2014 5:42pm

best thing I took from the 2nd episode is that the parade of characters from episode 1 were shown to be sticking around and not just being ignored til their episode came back. It's one of those shows where I'd imagine enjoying it more sitting down and watching it in a block on netflix so I can see the full journey of the penguin play out.

That said, the main meat of this weeks episode was tasteless, sure it had it's cooky villains but so much was held back that it was just underwhelming.

also is it confirmed they are doing a random potential joker each week?

_Kaiser_ · 30-09-2014 9:35pm

Hmmm.. still not sure about this. Not much better than last week.

Think I'll give it one more episode.

PhiloCypher · 30-09-2014 10:20pm

The tone is all over the place. It goes from Adam West camp with the two child kidnappers to clockwork orange ultraviolence with the penguin. Elsewhere we have Donal Logue who knowing this is a comic book property seems intent on hamming it up rather then just channelling his terriers character.

youngblood · 30-09-2014 10:30pm

Better than last week slightly
Anyone else think it would be better without Bruce Wayne?
(Really not sure how they will weave that kid in,
the violence is a bit jarring at times with the overall feel of the show?)
Thought Selina Kyle was excellent though compared to Bruce
Ms J Smith seems slightly less wooden....
Penguin could be v good

An improvement

CastorTroy · 30-09-2014 10:32pm

Hard to watch the mayor without seeing him as his Spin City character.

PhiloCypher · 30-09-2014 11:00pm

youngblood wrote: »

Better than last week slightly
Anyone else think it would be better without Bruce Wayne?
(Really not sure how they will weave that kid in,
the violence is a bit jarring at times with the overall feel of the show?)
Thought Selina Kyle was excellent though compared to Bruce
Ms J Smith seems slightly less wooden....
Penguin could be v good

An improvement

I think the actor playing Bruce is doing a very good job but I agree he should be used sparingly, as in only when Gordon has made a break in his parents murder case. If they continue to shoehorn him into every episode it's going to get old real quick and show a lack of faith from the creators that the show can stand on its own two feet without the boy behind the cowl.

RobbingBandit · 30-09-2014 11:10pm

I can see Catgirl getting stashed away at Wayne Manor seeing as she is an eye witness to the murder, hope next weeks background focus is on the Riddler, Penguin was quite good, I hope to see Penguin redeeming himself in the eyes of Falcone by biting the nose off Fish Mooneys face before this is over.

_Kaiser_ · 30-09-2014 11:30pm

CastorTroy wrote: »

Hard to watch the mayor without seeing him as his Spin City character.

Or as Lucius from Stargate Atlantis or Harvey Corman from Scrubs.. bit weird seeing him play it straight alright

ricero · 01-10-2014 12:50am

I'm actually liking it so far and the penguin is excellent.Did anyone else think that the well in the scene with the kids was a reference to killer croc? Seemed like it led to the sewers

pixelburp · 01-10-2014 10:28pm

I must agree with the above sentiments about the scattershot tone, one of Gotham's priorities surely has to be to decide what kind of show it wants to be: grim, pulp Nolan'esque seriousness or goofy, Burton'esque silliness, because at the moment the tone is all over the place and utterly distracting.

You can't swing from the earnest brow-furrowing of Lt. Gordon as he fights the good fight to the pantomime scenery chewing of Jada Pinkett Smith and expect everything to gel. I'm still willing to pass this off as early jitters in the show's lifetime, but it'd want to sort things out quick. I'm not sure whether to blame the writer or the director, but it's probably a combination of the two, leaning more towards the director for failing to set the standard of how scenes should be played out.

Also, I'm not sure who around here watched 'Rome' back in the day, but it's hard to believe the man behind that classic TV series wrote the last couple of episodes: Bruno Heller's dialogue in these stories has wavered between expository and inert, particularly the scenes between Gordon and his girlfriend which were just dead. I'm not sure I could I could stomach 16 episodes of 'I am telling you what I'm thinking and what is happening.'

edit: oh and whoever thought it'd be terribly smart and clever to nickname Selina Kyle 'Cat' should be locked out of the writing room and asked to think about their career choices.

RobbingBandit · 01-10-2014 10:36pm

pixelburp wrote: »

I must agree with the above sentiments about the scattershot tone, one of Gotham's priorities surely has to be to decide what kind of show it wants to be: grim, pulp Nolan'esque seriousness or goofy, Burton'esque silliness, because at the moment the tone is all over the place and utterly distracting.

You can't swing from the earnest brow-furrowing of Lt. Gordon as he fights the good fight to the pantomime scenery chewing of Jada Pinkett Smith and expect everything to gel. I'm still willing to pass this off as early jitters in the show's lifetime, but it'd want to sort things out quick. I'm not sure whether to blame the writer or the director, but it's probably a combination of the two, leaning more towards the director for failing to set the standard of how scenes should be played out.

Also, I'm not sure who around here watched 'Rome' back in the day, but it's hard to believe the man behind that classic TV series wrote the last couple of episodes: Bruno Heller's dialogue in these stories has wavered between expository and inert, particularly the scenes between Gordon and his girlfriend which were just dead. I'm not sure I could I could stomach 16 episodes of 'I am telling you what I'm thinking and what is happening.'

Come on, in Rome he had one of the finest actors in years James Purefoy the man would make a better Mark Antony than Mark Antony, also if that scene with Gordon and Barbara was set in Rome(TV Show) Gordon would have slapped her around and ripped of her clothes, this show will take time to find its feet.

Dermighty · 01-10-2014 10:55pm

When I saw Bruno Heller I read Bruno Ganz :pac:

RobbingBandit · 02-10-2014 12:29am

Dermighty wrote: »

When I saw Bruno Heller I read Bruno Ganz :pac:

This will forever be remembered as your downfall mein herr.

Given how the assassin was dressed when killing the Waynes and seeing as so many of the villains from the Batman universe have already been seen I wonder could Ra's Al Ghul and The League of Shadows be the culprits.

Roar · 02-10-2014 12:11pm

thought it was a slight improvement on the first episode. but that in itself is damning with faint praise. It's all over the shop tonally, and the awful dialogue isn't helping ("did anyone ever tell you that you walk like a penguin?")

And I left out a groan when Selina said she wanted to be called "Cat". WE GET IT, SHE'S CAT WOMAN! STOP HITTING US OVER THE HEAD WITH IT!

I did quite like the Joker gag though.

Overall, meh.

Soft Falling Rain · 02-10-2014 7:19pm

Rocky start with naff dialogue but I thought the episode got better as it went on. Hopefully they realised early on that the dialogue is hurting the show and that they made the necessary changes. The show looks to be strong on ideas so that will keep me watching regardless. The actors playing Selina and Bruce are very good, Louge and McKenzie have their moments and if anything are the ones hurt most by the dialogue.

Giruilla · 02-10-2014 11:26pm

I can't believe it got good reviews.. shockingly all over the place.

It's strange.. with all the money clearly available, and such a strong cast.. it's like they purposefully tried to make the show look cheap and B-movie-ish. Is there really a need for so many face edits per scene??
Got as far as 10 mins into the second episode and realised it really was that bad.

JP Liz V1 · 03-10-2014 12:22am

Nicholas D’Agosto in to play Harvey Dent

pixelburp · 03-10-2014 12:35am

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Nicholas D’Agosto in to play Harvey Dent

Going by the oh-so subtle use of signposting so far, I look forward to lines of dialogue commenting about how ... two faced ... Gothams attorney is. Maybe throw in some asides about gambling peoples lives on the toss of a coin...

Agent Coulson · 03-10-2014 12:41am

AoS got stick last season for not having any well know Marvel characters.

It seems Gotham has gone the other way with an overload of characters.

03-10-2014 1:14am

Haven't watched yet but was looking forward to it. The ratings so far are a bit worrying though no?

CastorTroy · 03-10-2014 1:06pm

That_Guy · 03-10-2014 6:08pm

An improvement over last week anyway but not by much. Some elements are interesting and enjoyed some Penguin stuff.

It's just all over the place right now. The child snatchers were interesting and took the episode to a very quirky and comic book-esque place but it's struggling between gritty/seriousness and OTT comic book fantasy.

Dialogue is absolute crap and I hope it gets better. I mean, it can't get any worse.

03-10-2014 11:17pm

I enjoyed the first episode for the pulpy nonsense that it was. Visually they've fine a really nice job of melding the Gotham of the comics with the real world and the timeless nature of the city is a nice touch, it's at once a 30s noir infused city and a modern metropolitan.

The first episode suffers from the faults of many a pilot, far too much exposition in place of character development. There was far to many characters in play and one feels that it may have been wiser to keep the rogues gallery a little smaller. But then again you'd end up with fans complaining that there wasn't enough characters in play as they did with Agents of Shield. The biggest issue with the villains is just how out of its way the show goes to ensure that you know exactly who they are, it's a little distracting and unnecessary. That said the introduction of The Penguin was well handled and the character has huge potential if played right. Cat Woman, Ivy and The Riddler were less successful and felt far too on the nose. A little wit and mystery about their identities would have been nice.

Dialogue is a real issue, thus far its been far too pulp to work. It's obvious the style the show is trying to emulate but no matter how you look at it, it just doesn't work. The hard boiled talk is at odds with the bland exposition and the time never quite sits right.

Hopefully with time the show will find its groove as there's huge potential here for an adult series. Previous adaptations have always focused on the man and as such it's a nice change of pace for one to look at the city which shaped him.

Backstreet Moyes · 04-10-2014 10:50am

The chap who plays Gordon was very good in Southland. But his dialgoue just seems too forced in this like something you see from a midday soap opera.

bren2001 · 06-10-2014 4:33pm

Finally got around to watching the first two episodes this morning. While I enjoyed both episodes they both clearly suffered from everything outlined in the thread so far. Poor dialogue and giant neon signs pointing to each character. I really fail to understand why they let us know so early on who is who. So far we have met the Penguin, the Riddler, Cat, Ivy. They have also said in many an interview

that the Joker will appear

. I understand we will see Ivy and Cat grow with Bruce and it makes sense for the Riddler and Penguin to be established gangsters by the time Bruce grows up. Before the show started I was hoping they would tease out the characters over time. I'm sure there will be a few twists and turns.

ScumLord · 06-10-2014 7:58pm

The problem I have with the characters is that they seem to already know who they are, I don't see any room for character development at all. Bruce doesn't act like a child at all, he's like a batman stuck in a small childs body. Same thing for catgirl, all their missing are the names and costumes, although catgirl is already halfway there.

It's like a how that was made by an overzealous fan that has too much love and respect for the franchise rather than someone trying to write a good story. It seems like all style and little substance.

Alfred Borden · 07-10-2014 3:10pm

Ah that was a really good episode. Thats what I had imagined it would have been like. Really good epsiode, hopefully they keep it up now.

duridian · 07-10-2014 3:38pm

Raf32 wrote: »

Ah that was a really good episode. Thats what I had imagined it would have been like. Really good epsiode, hopefully they keep it up now.

To help keep up the standard each episode from now on will be

tied to a large helium balloon.

Alfred Borden · 07-10-2014 3:39pm

duridian wrote: »

To help keep up the standard each episode from now on will be
tied to a large helium balloon.

Love it :pac:

CastorTroy · 08-10-2014 12:07am

Watching this week's episode finally made me remember what the tone of the series is similar to. Darkman.

ricero · 08-10-2014 12:20am

Enjoyed this weeks episode its getting better week by week.

Potential-Monke · 08-10-2014 3:42am

Can't understand the negative reaction to this on here. I'm not a Batman fanboy, and i've never really got into the lore and haven't seen most/any of the animated films, but i have to say that i'm liking this. I don't find it hammy, badly acted or anything else. I think it's shaping up to be an excellent background to a well established (and often changed) franchise. It's definitely the Gordon show, but it will be interesting to see which characters get most airtime (Penguin being the obvious main villain so far, imo). I'm a big fan of the Riddler (being a huge fan of Carey, i've loved the Riddler since), so i'm really looking forward to his descent into madness.

About this episode,

what's Penguin up to coming to Gordons house?

. And, like others, can't wait to see Mrs. Smith go down. She's alright at what she does, and i'm really starting to feel that she's portraying a character on the edge. I'm not a cinema/tv critic, and i don't see the errors that those more versed in the cinematic arts, but from a laymans point of view, this is a really good show, creating an environment that both fanboys and newcomers alike can enjoy.

CastorTroy · 08-10-2014 10:03am

I'm enjoying the show. I won't say I'm a Batman fanboy, as such, but I do like Batman comics and whatever of the animated movies/series I seen.

I also liked Darkman which is why I compared it to that as it comes across as being comic booky but played serious. Like Jim seems to be the only non comic book character in this crazy world.

As for your spoiler

I'd say it's probably because he's the only one he doesn't have to pretend to be someone else around

Gotham (Fox) [** Spoilers **]

Comments

Gotham (Fox) [ Spoilers ]