Luas Red Line security issues mega thread (read mod warming in post #1)

Roosterreid · 04-03-2015 2:55pm #1

MOD WARNING: Luas Red Line security issues mega thread (read mod warming in post #1)

This will be a mega thread for Luas red line security issues. Other threads will be soon locked.

Constructive posts only -- please read the charter before posting.

Claiming a tram line which is used by thousands of people a day should be close down will no longer be entertained and will be viewed as non-constructive, distributive posting which will be sanctioned. Making such a claim does nothing to address the on-going issues.

ORIGINAL OPENING POST:

I am a daily commuter on the red line Luas, from the Point right to Saggart..... a long journey.

What experiences have people had on this line?

Since Christmas, I have witnessed:

(1) Open drug use
(2) Junkies stoned out of their mind
(3) Junkies begging for money from everyone on the tram
(4) Gangs of youths drinking
(5) A girl getting threatened that she was going to get robbed by some teenagers
(6) Gangs of Eastern European's playing loud music / then starting fights when they get asked to leave
(7) I was physically threatened this morning as I did not give the large polish ape enough room on his seat (I was squished in against the window)

These issues get worse as you pass Belgard.... the "Security Staff" are a total joke and turn a blind eye to all but the most serious issues!

I do feel genuinely uneasy making this daily journey.... but have little option.

What have others experienced?

chrysagon · 04-03-2015 2:59pm

did u make an official complaint?

Roosterreid · 04-03-2015 3:01pm

Yeah.... everytime there is an issue, I contact the Luas in some way in some attempt to help make the journey safer.....

It's still the same.... I wouldn't recommend the Luas to my girlfriend if she was making the same journey as me.

Del2005 · 04-03-2015 3:06pm

The security can do very little in this country and the scumbags know this. What's needed is police and a proper sentencing policy, community service which improves the community! , to deal with them, but the solicitors make good money in the current system so nothing will change.

SPM1959 · 04-03-2015 3:08pm

I only get the Red Line once in a while and it's an absolute nightmare. Would recommend anyone who can to use another form of transport to work etc.

chrysagon · 04-03-2015 3:18pm

And the powers that be cant see a problem?..or just wont bother solving it?

Miaireland · 04-03-2015 3:23pm

I have only taken the red line from Heuston to the Point. I have seen plenty of druggies stoned out of their head but nothing else thankfully.

Larbre34 · 04-03-2015 3:27pm

chrysagon wrote: »

And the powers that be cant see a problem?..or just wont bother solving it?

Yes and yes.

Personally Id recommend that Luas red line users and indeed users of any public transport or public place in which they feel regularly threatened or unsafe should contact their local reps and election candidates and let them know law and order is a big issue for you and that your vote in the upcoming election will be dependent on improvements in that regard.

Auction politics doesnt only have to work one way.

veryangryman · 04-03-2015 3:28pm

The city council must wake up and realise that they are scaring away long distance would-be visiters to the city centre.

Most who takes Galway, Limerick, Cork train jump on a Luas. Many decide not to do it a second time. Honestly it must take millions out of the city in people not returning to it.

04-03-2015 3:29pm

Is it really that bad ? What if ya told the Junkies to fook off ?

chrysagon · 04-03-2015 3:33pm

i have never used it, but ye dont make it sound apealing.. and must be losing revenue if folk decide not to use it due to security issues

MrWalsh · 04-03-2015 3:38pm

Ive just come back from central London where I was amazed at how safe the Tube seemed. Some drunks late at night but none of the antics that are typically seen on all Irish public transport. Ive no doubt the Tube has some issues but the Red Line Luas seems to be a complete no go zone for many people these days.

Internet Friend · 04-03-2015 3:43pm

I use it 6 days a week, from Heuston to the Point, most of the time it's Ok. Around the city centre, between Smithfield and Busarus, you'll see all sorts at times. Two days in a row last week I witnessed some foreign lads being threatened by junkies, once verbal and once physical, I've also felt it necessary to move once or twice when one(s) got on with some form of blood injury, one pretty bad. You'd maybe see something off putting once or twice a week but for the most part it's not the worst.

Roosterreid · 04-03-2015 3:45pm

6541 wrote: »

Is it really that bad ? What if ya told the Junkies to fook off ?

Yes.... it's really that bad! I'm not a small man by any counts, but find this journey intimidating. When the situation has called for it in the past, I have gotten off the tram and caught the next one - I shouldn't have to, to avoid trouble!!! No doubt the first time I defend myself, I'll be the one that is judged.

Like I said..... I advise my girlfriend and would advise anyone who is frail or 'at risk' to stay well clear!

varuka · 04-03-2015 3:46pm

I've been using the luas red line for over a year and never had any problems.

Roosterreid · 04-03-2015 3:47pm

Internet Friend wrote: »

I use it 6 days a week, from Heuston to the Point, most of the time it's Ok. Around the city centre, between Smithfield and Busarus, you'll see all sorts at times. Two days in a row last week I witnessed some foreign lads being threatened by junkies, once verbal and once physical, I've also felt it necessary to move once or twice when one(s) got on with some form of blood injury, one pretty bad. You'd maybe see something off putting once or twice a week but for the most part it's not the worst.

It'd be interesting what you deem to be bad in that case! You've witnessed racist abuse / physical violence and on more that one occasion, you've had to remove yourself from a situation..... do you feel this is appropriate? or do you feel that no one who is paying for a ticket to travel should be subject to this?

Roosterreid · 04-03-2015 3:49pm

Let me add..... most of the situations I refer to are slightly further out of the city.... yes, the centre is rife with issues, but towards Red Cow and beyond is far worse!

cruizer101 · 04-03-2015 3:50pm

Internet Friend wrote: »

You'd maybe see something off putting once or twice a week but for the most part it's not the worst.

Isn't it a sorry state of affairs when seeing something off putting once or twice a week is considered to be standard

Internet Friend · 04-03-2015 4:07pm

cruizer101 wrote: »

Isn't it a sorry state of affairs when seeing something off putting once or twice a week is considered to be standard

That's my point, this shouldn't be something that is considered standard, but unfortunately it is. I do feel it's intimidating witnessing these acts but the one thing I've learnt on the Red Line is to show no fear or concern cause it's either that or you have the potential to become another one of their victims.

I wouldn't consider pushing and shoving physical violence, what I've seen is someone get on who is already injured elsewhere, I've simply witnessed the threat of something more sinister. I don't understand the point of the security guys cause all they seem to do is stand around with their hands in their pockets doing nothing about what everyone else is afraid to do something about.

ghogie91 · 04-03-2015 4:15pm

I have only ever experienced one trip on the red line where something didn't happen haha

Free taxi for the junkies

Rakish Paddy · 04-03-2015 4:16pm

I had been using the green line twice daily during the week between Balally and town for several years, and virtually never saw any kind of hassle on the trams or at the stops, other than the occasional fairly inoffensive beggar at St. Stephen's Green or groups of rough-looking teens hanging around the Balally stop who never really seemed to cause any real trouble. Sure you'd see drunk people heading home from town on the later trams, but never saw any actual trouble.

Since the new year, due to a move of both office and house, I have been taking the red line between Museum / Smithfield and Busáras a few times per week. It's not at all pleasant! Most of the mornings when I take the Luas there are junkies/winos at the stops and on the tram. Sometimes they just wander around harmlessly in a daze, but often they are roaring like lunatics at each other or passers-by. Skangers in groups playing music out loud on their phones and generally harrassing other people are a problem too that I never encountered on the green line. One night I witnessed a dodgy-looking lad brandishing a syringe at another lad, roaring "I'll fookin' give ya AIDS!", at which point the other lad took offense and launched a bottle in the general direction of the guy with the syringe. I had a friend visiting from out of town on the Luas with me at the time who was taken aback to say the least! I have also seen LOTS of drinking at all hours of the day, and one instance of someone shooting up on the tram. One case that I remember of racist verbal abuse.

I also notice that ticket inspectors tend to (understandably) ignore skangers and junkies and only ask folks who look like they work for a living to show their tickets, and there is a notaable absence of security staff a lot of the time, considering how rife general scumbaggery seems to be on that line.

I still take the Luas when I am running late or it's raining badly etc. as it's fairly reliable and I have never personally been threatened or felt in imminent danger, but the unpleasantness of the red line experience has spurred me to walk to and from work whenever possible.

Pat Mustard · 04-03-2015 4:25pm

Roosterreid wrote: »

These issues get worse as you pass Belgard.... the "Security Staff" are a total joke and turn a blind eye to all but the most serious issues!

There should be adequate security from staff who are ready, willing and able to deal with the problems that you outlined.

I would suggest that they need Transport Officers in significant numbers like they have on the trains in Sydney, with proper training and adequate powers to deal with troublemakers.

Ordinary security guards don't have the training, the powers or the backup to deal with troublemakers and criminals.

syklops · 04-03-2015 4:30pm

I use it between 3 and 10 times a week from Abbey Street to Citywest. Most of the time I find a seat and go to sleep so I see very little. Not felt unsafe yet, though got off at Smithfield once and there were some very dodgy characters hanging around acting suspicious.

BoatMad · 04-03-2015 4:51pm

The Mustard wrote: »

There should be adequate security from staff who are ready, willing and able to deal with the problems that you outlined.

I would suggest that they need Transport Officers in significant numbers like they have on the trains in Sydney, with proper training and adequate powers to deal with troublemakers.

Ordinary security guards don't have the training, the powers or the backup to deal with troublemakers and criminals.

bring back the guys with the dogs they had on the Dart a few yard back, they were effective

Mr.Shabby · 04-03-2015 5:28pm

I take the red line between Connolly and Smithfield about 3/4 times a week, most of the time it's fine but I have seen some very sketchy things. Last week there were two lads at the verry end carriage, one was smoking a fag and the other whipped his lad out and just started pissing, I've never seen a group of people move so quickly! I do agree though that It's incredibly unfair that the fare checkers never confront the junkies, I know it's not the most pleasent job but it just makes a mockery of the whole system that some people can use the system for free while others have to pay.

Poster2014 · 04-03-2015 6:15pm

It definitely isn't a pleasant journey. I spent 6 months working in Citywest and traveled from Abbey Street every day. I would not take this journey alone after dark. Although there are a series of issues on this luas line once you sit at/near the top of the tram near the driver and put earphones in it's fine.

LXFlyer · 04-03-2015 7:18pm

These issues have been here for long before the Red Line LUAS. Anyone who travelled on the bus routes now served by LUAS (51b, 51c, 77, 77a, 78a as they were) would recognise most of the issues outlined above.

But as buses tend not to be used by a sizeable part of the population, the issues were long ignored.

Now those users have migrated to the LUAS and it's suddenly far more visible.

But it still seems to be just swept under the carpet.

Until society at large and the authorities accept the need for a transport police force, and at the same time start tackling the drugs and alcohol problem that exists (a lot of the people referred to as junkies above are actually in the latter category), nothing will change.

Grandeeod · 04-03-2015 10:43pm

lxflyer wrote: »

These issues have been here for long before the Red Line LUAS. Anyone who travelled on the bus routes now served by LUAS (51b, 51c, 77, 77a, 78a as they were) would recognise most of the issues outlined above.

But as buses tend not to be used by a sizeable part of the population, the issues were long ignored.

Now those users have migrated to the LUAS and it's suddenly far more visible.

But it still seems to be just swept under the carpet.

Until society at large and the authorities accept the need for a transport police force, and at the same time start tackling the drugs and alcohol problem that exists (a lot of the people referred to as junkies above are actually in the latter category), nothing will change.

The bus routes you have mentioned above have had similar problems since the 1980s albeit that era's version of the route. These problems have been going on for years.

end of the road · 05-03-2015 3:53pm

any time i've used the red line which admitidly isn't often, scangers playing loud music once or twice is about all i've witnessed. i've no reason to disbelieve there are major issues, i guess i've just been lucky not to see them myself

dregin · 05-03-2015 7:53pm

Really had high hopes for the LUAS, but after two stints living on the red line, I'm now far happier using Dublin Bus. Nothing CLOSE to the level of anti-social behaviour on the bus compared to the LUAS.

stehyl15 · 06-03-2015 12:45am

BoatMad wrote: »

bring back the guys with the dogs they had on the Dart a few yard back, they were effective

Who were these lads were they IR staff or private security

syklops · 06-03-2015 1:04am

dregin wrote: »

Really had high hopes for the LUAS, but after two stints living on the red line, I'm now far happier using Dublin Bus. Nothing CLOSE to the level of anti-social behaviour on the bus compared to the LUAS.

What route(s) are you taking on the Bus?

dregin · 06-03-2015 7:53am

One of em is actually listed above as being awful - 77a. I've never seen any trouble with it. I think when there's one exit/entrance it's a lot easier for the driver to keep control of what's going on on a bus.

artvandulet · 06-03-2015 8:43am

The red line and green line are like different worlds. I use the green line daily and the red line occasionly.

Never have an issue on the green line. But on the red line there is often something minor at least.

Having never gone further than heuston from connolly maybe I haven't seen the worst of it but from reading here it does sound very similar to what I used to experience on the 78a!

Casshern88 · 06-03-2015 9:14am

seen two junkies openly shooting up not five feet from me, actually seen the needles go into their arms, on the red line about a month ago going from four courts to james around 9pm.

pretty scary imagine if the driver had to brake suddenly and that junkie falls on someone with possibly a dirty infected needle in hand.

stehyl15 · 06-03-2015 11:36pm

Casshern88 wrote: »

seen two junkies openly shooting up not five feet from me, actually seen the needles go into their arms, on the red line about a month ago going from four courts to james around 9pm.

pretty scary imagine if the driver had to brake suddenly and that junkie falls on someone with possibly a dirty infected needle in hand.

Ah come off it thats about the same chance as the roof caving in you must injecting aswell thinking those mad thoughts

Golaco · 06-03-2015 11:40pm

stehyl15 wrote: »

Ah come off it thats about the same chance as the roof caving in you must injecting aswell thinking those mad thoughts

Unlikely admittedly but still pretty rough even having to witness them injecting in fairness. And seems to be pretty common

stehyl15 · 07-03-2015 12:18am

Golaco wrote: »

Unlikely admittedly but still pretty rough even having to witness them injecting in fairness. And seems to be pretty common

People complaining junkies are only in Dublin and im saying its acceptable but theyre all over europe and at least we dont have that many gypsies to contend with

Greenman · 08-03-2015 12:02pm

In reality ROI is a joke dealing with low lying crime. Fine them and take it out of their social welfare etc. None of this jail stuff spending a few hours in jail of a 3 week sentence.

AFAIK in California is you're caught throwing litter you spend a day clearing litter if you do not do a job come back next day for more.

In Casablanca a guy got 3 years jail for graffiti on their LUAS. In Morocco jail is really jail.

When in Ireland you meet really lovely people and really dreadful people. In many cases dreadful because they can.

IsMiseMyself · 08-03-2015 12:11pm

I get the Luas twice a day, from Kylemore in to Connolly for work. I spend about an hour twenty on the thing every day. The scumbags are always there. James' is the biggest kip ever. 10 minute walk the other way and you get to Christchuch--really exemplifies the idea of Dublin as a city of villages. The dole office in James' deserves a documentary. The assortment of junkies and alcoholics you get there is extraordinary!

I find you just kinda get used to the scumbags and the junkies. I've only ever had one incident that directly related to me and that was some 12-year-old kid shouting abuse at me about how ugly I was. He sat down right beside me and all. That was a bit weird, has to be said. A part from that it's the standard stuff: junkies, people selling/doing drugs, alcoholics swaying around the place, young teenagers running around the place and shouting ****e. Some fat thinker was trying to sell a French bulldog on it one day--walked up and down the aisles asking people if they wanted the dog. One of my housemates had her iPhone stole right out of her hand! But you know: the usual. You really do just get used to it. I put my headphones in and arse around the internet for my trip so it's usually grand.

It really annoys me, though, how junkies get free travel or how the Luas police/storm troopers/TransDev men ignore the junkies. Oh and that recent price hike pissed me off too. :pac:

stehyl15 · 08-03-2015 1:26pm

Greenman wrote: »

I Casablanca a guy got 3 years jail for graffiti on their LUAS. In Morocco jail is really jail.

But in morocco you get stoned to death for shoplifting

asteroids over berlin · 08-03-2015 1:38pm

stehyl15 wrote: »

Ah come off it thats about the same chance as the roof caving in you must injecting aswell thinking those mad thoughts

actually straight after banging up, the rush can cause the user/addict to go into a semi state of consciousness, could easily lose bearing and keel over./fall with needle in hand. Regardless, it is totally an unacceptable scenario

nc19 · 08-03-2015 1:45pm

took my 2 yr old on her first trip on th green line. lovely couple of hrs.

wouldn't dream of getting on the red line on my own never mind with a child

nc19 · 08-03-2015 1:48pm

varuka wrote:

I've been using the luas red line for over a year and never had any problems.

it's very much subjective imo

if you grew up around the sorts of scum that frequent the red line then it probably seems relatively normal to you.
I didn't and it doesn't.

Caledonia · 08-03-2015 2:10pm

I totally agree with above, I guess the non ticketing on luas means anyone can jump on.

I have noticed how bad it has got and would say that you are taking a risk to your personal safety just by stepping on a red line tram.

The man who had his face slashed at the SJH, the man stabbed on his way home from the 3e...

I would nearly suggest a boycott until they sort out security issues.

frankoreagan · 08-03-2015 2:27pm

Until addiction and homeless services are up to snuff (been waiting 30 years for that to happen, don't hold your breath) you're always going to see addicts and alcoholics milling about in and around the red line, just by virtue of the areas it serves.

I'm the meantime Veolia should at least increase the security presence on it, and the Guards should do more than a handful of plain clothes sweeps per year too. Feck all else that can be done really.

Personally, I find the groups of aggressive youths that tend to frequent the stops from Bluebell - James Hospital far more troublesome than the emaciated and often zonked out of their heads addicts.

stehyl15 · 08-03-2015 2:38pm

I think they should install some kind of barrier at each door on the luas so you cant get on without a ticket. Or maybe even a system where the door wont open without a ticket

MrWalsh · 08-03-2015 2:46pm

stehyl15 wrote: »

I think they should install some kind of barrier at each door on the luas so you cant get on without a ticket. Or maybe even a system where the door wont open without a ticket

They need a barrier system to enter the station and to exit it so you can't get on OR off without a valid ticket for your journey.

08-03-2015 3:28pm

More Red Line guff - hysterical over-reaction without a screed of evidence to support it.

Seeing people you are prejudiced against doesn't qualify as hassle or trouble - this thread is like reading the Princess and the Pea.

nervous_twitch · 08-03-2015 3:59pm

I hate getting the Red Line; I always walk if possible. I've been on it a handful of times and on at least half those occasions there's been some kind of incident. It's not hyperbole and I'm far from precious. It's just unpleasant. I'd feel more comfortable on metros in Paris, London, NYC.

How best to be proactive about it? Lobby politicans? Contact Luas directly?

yew_tree · 09-03-2015 4:37pm

Yeah Ive been on the NY subway at 4:00am and felt safer than on the Luas red line at times.
It just represents the fact that this country is soft on crime. Transport law and order has got very lax in recent years. You could travel on the train from the west to Dublin now and not come across a single Irish Rail staff member.

Luas Red Line security issues mega thread (read mod warming in post #1)

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