Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

westtip · 13-01-2017 9:41am

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/shane-ross-zeroes-in-on-loss-making-rural-irish-rail-routes-438598.html

Another nail.

Del.Monte · 13-01-2017 11:20am

I would be optimistic that this government will be gone before they have time to further damage the railways. What the next one will bring......

JCX BXC · 13-01-2017 1:13pm

Ennis-Athenry won't go imo. Every line needs subvention as has been stated. The dart is the lowest at 90c, but the journeys are much higher so the cost is great.

eastwest · 13-01-2017 1:33pm

westtip wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/shane-ross-zeroes-in-on-loss-making-rural-irish-rail-routes-438598.html

Another nail.

That coffin is so full of nails that one more makes no difference, but that's not the problem. Ennis athenry won't be closed at this stage; they'll close the Ballybrophy line to buy time, and hope that the first phase of the wrc manages to stagger on until after the next election.
The real problem is the Athenry Collooney section. They won't build it, obviously, but neither will he do anything about making the asset work for the community. Stagnation is the name of the game, as long as local politicians find it profitable to keep the weeds growing.

eastwest · 13-01-2017 2:10pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

I would be optimistic that this government will be gone before they have time to further damage the railways. What the next one will bring......

I agree; they will damage the railways by ignoring the key problems, one of which is a small handful of lines that are bleeding money away from viable services.
Rail services won't work anywhere without subvention, but it is the level of subvention that is the problem. A huge slice of the subvention towards public transport in general goes to around 10% of the passengers, and the remainder lose out.
If the government is serious about protecting the overall rail system, they need to root out the rotten bits, like ballybrophy and (to a lesser extent) Ennis-Athenry. However I don't see any government having the b*lls to close the latter, and even the obvious open goal of the empty trains in Nenagh is a hard ball for them to kick.
Doing nothing is easier.

mayo.mick · 14-01-2017 11:12pm

eastwest · 15-01-2017 11:18am

mayo.mick wrote: »

There's a bonanza there for Irish rail on ennis athenry if bus eireann get their way!

Sam Russell · 16-01-2017 10:14am

eastwest wrote: »

There's a bonanza there for Irish rail on ennis athenry if bus eireann get their way!

The Free Travel Pass needs to be reviewed as it is distorting services - particularly on rail. Anytime I travel on a train (IC), I get the impression that the majority of passengers are on the FTP.

Now would a small fee (like 10% of the fare) would not go amiss.

16-01-2017 9:27pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

The Free Travel Pass needs to be reviewed as it is distorting services - particularly on rail. Anytime I travel on a train (IC), I get the impression that the majority of passengers are on the FTP.

Now would a small fee (like 10% of the fare) would not go amiss.

Probably wouldn't make much difference, the taxpayers still pick up the tab.

what_traffic · 17-01-2017 6:28pm

http://galwaybayfm.ie/design-underway-restoration-ballyglunin-railway-bridge/

n97 mini · 17-01-2017 6:37pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

The Free Travel Pass needs to be reviewed as it is distorting services - particularly on rail. Anytime I travel on a train (IC), I get the impression that the majority of passengers are on the FTP.

Now would a small fee (like 10% of the fare) would not go amiss.

What line? My recent experiences of the Wexford line led me to believe the majority were travelling for free, as at 44 years old I was probably the youngest person in the carriage.

Otoh, as a frequent off-peak traveller on the Maynooth line the amount of fare evasion is huge, particularly between intermediate stations.

17-01-2017 6:51pm

Not a hope they will risk stirring up the grey vote.

eastwest · 17-01-2017 7:16pm

what_traffic wrote: »

http://galwaybayfm.ie/design-underway-restoration-ballyglunin-railway-bridge/

....for 'future' restoration of Ballyglunin Bridge.

what_traffic · 17-01-2017 8:00pm

eastwest wrote: »

....for 'future' restoration of Ballyglunin Bridge.

Yes very unusual phrasing.

marno21 · 17-01-2017 9:39pm

what_traffic wrote: »

Yes very unusual phrasing.

"We'll restore it when you give us the funds to do so."

No point in it staying unless there's a solid plan to reopen the railway. It's quite narrow and low at 4.14m.

eastwest · 18-01-2017 10:14am

marno21 wrote: »

what_traffic wrote: »

Yes very unusual phrasing.

"We'll restore it when you give us the funds to do so."

No point in it staying unless there's a solid plan to reopen the railway. It's quite narrow and low at 4.14m.

That's the key point. Any exit road from a motorway will have to have safe clearance for normal motorway traffic, currently vehicles up to 4.65m. Therefore the reinstated Bridge would have to be high enough to provide safe clearance abive 4.65m high vehicles, and trains (even imaginary ones) can't climb steps.

westtip · 18-01-2017 11:37am

what_traffic wrote: »

Yes very unusual phrasing.

Nothing unusual about it at all! It's the usual waffle about something we will put on the wish list. Think about who is going to fund this mythical bridge of the future?

The NRA? I don't think they would touch it?

Irish Rail? Right yeh really likely

Galway coco - like all of them broke.

DOT. oh yeh I can see it now, lets rebuild a railway bridge just in case we want to build the railway again in 30 years time.

The EU - oh yes I can just see structural funding coming through for a railway bridge on a line that is closed and is not part of TEN T transport

I have run out of potential candidates, apart maybe from the fairies...

This bridge coming down is the end of the show.

what_traffic · 18-01-2017 2:51pm

Any Civil Engineers here? What would the difference in cost be, between a Greenway Bridge and a Railway Bridge?

westtip · 18-01-2017 3:34pm

what_traffic wrote: »

Any Civil Engineers here? What would the difference in cost be, between a Greenway Bridge and a Railway Bridge?

it could be a compromise, I assume the new road will include footpaths, which means there could simply be a slipway greenway going down to the road level and some form of pedestrian/cycleway crossing put in place. If cost of a single span pedestrian/cycleway bridge was too great.

Using this solution, the site of the old demolished bridge could become the access point for residents of Ballyglunin to get onto their smart new local leisure facility....Now there is a thought Greenways as a local leisure facility or a rusting railway that will not be re-opened....

eastwest · 18-01-2017 3:38pm

what_traffic wrote: »

Any Civil Engineers here? What would the difference in cost be, between a Greenway Bridge and a Railway Bridge?

Two entirely different animals, and depends entirely on the design. You could fabricate a decent enough footbridge for about 50k and drop it into place on the existing or new buttresses, but I'd imagine that a heavy rail bridge would start at a million and upwards.

westtip · 18-01-2017 3:48pm

eastwest wrote: »

Two entirely different animals, and depends entirely on the design. You could fabricate a decent enough footbridge for about 50k and drop it into place on the existing or new buttresses, but I'd imagine that a heavy rail bridge would start at a million and upwards.

EW depends who is responsible for building the greenway - if it is done in the usual piecemeal fashion and left up Galway coco, then 50K probably won't pay the architects fee. If the greenway however from Athenry to Collooney is put out to tender with the councils having no nose in the trough then yes it will be built for a competitive price....if only eh?
As for the replacement railway bridge, no point even speculating it won't happen.

serfboard · 18-01-2017 5:45pm

what_traffic wrote: »

http://galwaybayfm.ie/design-underway-restoration-ballyglunin-railway-bridge/

Galway Bay FM wrote:

design works are underway to rebuild the bridge when the roadworks are completed.

So the bridge will not be rebuilt as part of the current (funded) roadworks.

So where is the money going to come from to re-build the bridge?

NiallBoo · 18-01-2017 6:04pm

serfboard wrote: »

So where is the money going to come from to re-build the bridge?

no-no.

You're not supposed to ask questions like that. Not until the thing is down and everybody can safely wash their hands of it.

serfboard · 18-01-2017 6:08pm

NiallBoo wrote: »

You're not supposed to ask questions like that. Not until the thing is down and everybody can safely wash their hands of it.

Locals: Aw, don't knock down our railway birdge!
Council: It's alright - we're designing a new bridge.
Naive locals: Oh, that's alright then.

Cynical locals: And when is it going to be re-built?
Council: ...

joeysoap · 18-01-2017 6:12pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

The Free Travel Pass needs to be reviewed as it is distorting services - particularly on rail. Anytime I travel on a train (IC), I get the impression that the majority of passengers are on the FTP.

Now would a small fee (like 10% of the fare) would not go amiss.

I have the FT, and would be quite willing to make a payment for travel, say €5 for train, and €2 for bus. Maybe cap it at a payment of €10 per person per day.

eastwest · 18-01-2017 6:21pm

serfboard wrote: »

what_traffic wrote: »

http://galwaybayfm.ie/design-underway-restoration-ballyglunin-railway-bridge/

Galway Bay FM wrote:

design works are underway to rebuild the bridge when the roadworks are completed.

So the bridge will not be rebuilt as part of the current (funded) roadworks.

So where is the money going to come from to re-build the bridge?

It will be part of Sean Canney’s 'red line' conditions for a space at the trough next time around.
Well, he got us the report on the wrc in the six months, like he promised, so we'll definitely get a bridge.

Carawaystick · 20-01-2017 12:31am

what_traffic wrote: »

Any Civil Engineers here? What would the difference in cost be, between a Greenway Bridge and a Railway Bridge?

At least 2 orders of magnitude

Muckyboots · 20-01-2017 9:37am

"Galway Bay fm News ‏@Galwaybayfmnews 4m4 minutes ago
More
Also at 9am
There are calls for a Luas line to connect Northern Ireland with Sligo and Donegal."

No. I checked the date.

JCX BXC · 20-01-2017 9:39am

A "Luas Line"?

MayoForSam · 20-01-2017 9:49am

JCX BXC wrote: »

A "Luas Line"?

Here you go: https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/luas-from-north-to-donegal-proposed-440002.html

I guess if they put a ram on the front, it will be able to break through any border wall after Brexit and also leap over any gaps where the bridges have been blown up by Nua-IRA (might be a handy trick for the N63 also)?

Budget airline-style fares? Obviously Michael O'Leary will be taken on as the ticket inspector.

NiallBoo · 20-01-2017 11:32am

I think it's a ploy:
Build a Luas.
Close a Luas.
Open a greenway.
Profit.

Really though, why a tram? It's obviously the least suitable rail option.
Because Dublin has one? (where it was a terribly inadequate choice anyway...)

(Edit: that said, I think a tram within Derry* itself would be an ok idea)

*or whatever the preferred title is currently.

marno21 · 20-01-2017 4:41pm

Saw the word "Canney" and stopped reading.

There's a tram track between Tuam and Collooney if they want to launch a tram there. Not sure who's going to pay the electrification costs though.

eastwest · 20-01-2017 7:04pm

marno21 wrote: »

Saw the word "Canney" and stopped reading.

There's a tram track between Tuam and Collooney if they want to launch a tram there. Not sure who's going to pay the electrification costs though.

Unfortunately the track between Collooney and charlestown is less than intact, apart from the fact that Irish rail have apparently described the remaining track as having scrap value only.
Does anyone know who the other five signatories are?

Grandeeod · 20-01-2017 7:20pm

MayoForSam wrote: »

Here you go: https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/luas-from-north-to-donegal-proposed-440002.html

I guess if they put a ram on the front, it will be able to break through any border wall after Brexit and also leap over any gaps where the bridges have been blown up by Nua-IRA (might be a handy trick for the N63 also)?

Budget airline-style fares? Obviously Michael O'Leary will be taken on as the ticket inspector.

LOL! Nothing surprising in that proposal. Same oul sh1te that's been going on for years. The only difference is they now want a 70kmph electric tram doing the job. I wonder are the same "citizens" behind the scenes.:D

marno21 · 20-01-2017 7:27pm

eastwest wrote: »

Unfortunately the track between Collooney and charlestown is less than intact, apart from the fact that Irish rail have apparently described the remaining track as having scrap value only.
Does anyone know who the other five signatories are?

Irish Times wrote:

However, the submission submitted shows the widespread opposition to any reduction in services. It is signed by Mr Canney, Ministers of State Finian McGrath and John Halligan (both of the Independent Alliance) as well as Fine Gael Ministers of State Pat Breen, Seán Kyne, Joe McHugh and Michael Ring.

Other TDs including Labour TD Alan Kelly and Brendan Ryan, Fianna Fáil TD Frank O’Rourke, Fine Gael TD Brendan Griffin and Independent TDs Michael Lowry, Mattie McGrath, Catherine Connolly and Michael Fitzmaurice signed the submission.

Plus lots of landgrabbing around Kiltimach and Curry.

eastwest · 20-01-2017 7:31pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

MayoForSam wrote: »

Here you go: https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/luas-from-north-to-donegal-proposed-440002.html

I guess if they put a ram on the front, it will be able to break through any border wall after Brexit and also leap over any gaps where the bridges have been blown up by Nua-IRA (might be a handy trick for the N63 also)?

Budget airline-style fares? Obviously Michael O'Leary will be taken on as the ticket inspector.

LOL! Nothing surprising in that proposal. Same oul sh1te that's been going on for years. The only difference is they now want a 70kmph electric tram doing the job. I wonder are the same "citizens" behind the scenes.:D

Canney is some man! He's going to build a 'walking pace' wrc, and drain the Shannon as well.
We are not worthy!

Muckyboots · 20-01-2017 8:37pm

"However, the submission submitted shows the widespread opposition to any reduction in services. It is signed by Mr Canney, Ministers of State Finian McGrath and John Halligan (both of the Independent Alliance) as well as Fine Gael Ministers of State Pat Breen, Seán Kyne, Joe McHugh and Michael Ring.
Other TDs including Labour TD Alan Kelly and Brendan Ryan, Fianna Fáil TD Frank O’Rourke, Fine Gael TD Brendan Griffin and Independent TDs Michael Lowry, Mattie McGrath, Catherine Connolly and Michael Fitzmaurice signed the submission."

Implied in this is that there is pressure from Independent Alliance deputies on Shane Ross- makes a mockery of his so called public consultation. Why bother wasting people's time if he is going have his commands whispered in his ear, with an "or else", from his loyal lieutenants. Like flogging a lame duck ! with no apologies for a mixed metaphor.

eastwest · 20-01-2017 9:21pm

Muckyboots wrote: »

"However, the submission submitted shows the widespread opposition to any reduction in services. It is signed by Mr Canney, Ministers of State Finian McGrath and John Halligan (both of the Independent Alliance) as well as Fine Gael Ministers of State Pat Breen, Seán Kyne, Joe McHugh and Michael Ring.
Other TDs including Labour TD Alan Kelly and Brendan Ryan, Fianna Fáil TD Frank O’Rourke, Fine Gael TD Brendan Griffin and Independent TDs Michael Lowry, Mattie McGrath, Catherine Connolly and Michael Fitzmaurice signed the submission."

Implied in this is that there is pressure from Independent Alliance deputies on Shane Ross- makes a mockery of his so called public consultation. Why bother wasting people's time if he is going have his commands whispered in his ear, with an "or else", from his loyal lieutenants. Like flogging a lame duck ! with no apologies for a mixed metaphor.

Or riding a dead horse.

Muckyboots · 20-01-2017 9:50pm

eastwest wrote: »

Or riding a dead horse.

Or maybe the rising tide didn't bring the Emperor his new clothes ?

what_traffic · 23-01-2017 1:26pm

Try and listen to the Playback of Claire Byrne on RTE Radio 13h00->14h00 show on the 21-01-2017. Canney on the show and was getting stuck in the riddles of his own making. Wanted cuts on Buseireann Expressway services but still wants the WRC.

eastwest · 23-01-2017 1:58pm

He doesn't have to make sense, he just has to promise everything to everybody.

westtip · 23-01-2017 4:58pm

MayoForSam wrote: »

Here you go: https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/luas-from-north-to-donegal-proposed-440002.html
.

Canney and co get more bizarre by the day.

eastwest · 23-01-2017 6:34pm

westtip wrote: »

MayoForSam wrote: »

Here you go: https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/luas-from-north-to-donegal-proposed-440002.html
.

Canney and co get more bizarre by the day.

A railway division of the gardai? Sure why not? Also maybe a post office division and a division catering for the marts? After all, unlike railway stations, the number of marts is actually growing.
You can just see the thought process though. Britain has railway police so surely the model is transferable, despite the tiny numbers moved by rail in Ireland.
Still, it's not as daft as a luas for donegal.

Grandeeod · 23-01-2017 9:03pm

eastwest wrote: »

A railway division of the gardai? Sure why not? Also maybe a post office division and a division catering for the marts? After all, unlike railway stations, the number of marts is actually growing.
You can just see the thought process though. Britain has railway police so surely the model is transferable, despite the tiny numbers moved by rail in Ireland.
Still, it's not as daft as a luas for donegal.

I've been around this **** for a long time. I agree with a lot of what you say. But please don't let Canney and Co. detract from what is a very sensible proposal. A type of transport police for buses and particularly trains is required in certain areas and at certain times. The current security arrangements lack actual powers.

Now carry on.:D

westtip · 23-01-2017 9:50pm

Yet another report on rural regeneration and development today. It reads pretty much exactly the same as the CEDRA report published three years ago.

The word "rail" is mentioned once in this 71 page report, the word greenway 9 times. There is no direct reference to the Western Rail Trail greenway planned along the route of the closed railway from Athenry - Collooney but being short on specifics is par for the course in these reports.

Who knows maybe the penny will finally drop, that the Western Rail Trail greenway will create jobs from Collooney to Athenry and be affordable, which is the permanent caveat about the railway it is simply not affordable to either build or carry on to subvent.

Muckyboots · 23-01-2017 11:00pm

what_traffic wrote: »

Try and listen to the Playback of Claire Byrne on RTE Radio 13h00->14h00 show on the 21-01-2017. Canney on the show and was getting stuck in the riddles of his own making. Wanted cuts on Buseireann Expressway services but still wants the WRC.

As she says " AHH Sean!" The sooner he realises that his support for the WRC seriously damages his credibility the better. Every time he opens his mouth in support of sustainability or cuts in any other service he is going to get hammered, as he did here, and rightly so.
He's in realm of they might be your facts- but these are my facts fantasy land and nobody takes that s**t anymore.

westtip · 24-01-2017 10:51am

Muckyboots wrote: »

As she says " AHH Sean!" The sooner he realises that his support for the WRC seriously damages his credibility the better. Every time he opens his mouth in support of sustainability or cuts in any other service he is going to get hammered, as he did here, and rightly so.
He's in realm of they might be your facts- but these are my facts fantasy land and nobody takes that s**t anymore.

Yep http://www.rte.ie/radio1/saturday-with-claire-byrne/podcasts/ his lack of understanding of the facts, be they facts or alternative facts is astonishing, he is out of his depth, he needs to get back to the county council. He is drowning in the sea of his own incompetence.

eastwest · 24-01-2017 6:32pm

westtip wrote: »

Muckyboots wrote: »

As she says " AHH Sean!" The sooner he realises that his support for the WRC seriously damages his credibility the better. Every time he opens his mouth in support of sustainability or cuts in any other service he is going to get hammered, as he did here, and rightly so.
He's in realm of they might be your facts- but these are my facts fantasy land and nobody takes that s**t anymore.

Yep http://www.rte.ie/radio1/saturday-with-claire-byrne/podcasts/ his lack of understanding of the facts, be they facts or alternative facts is astonishing, he is out of his depth, he needs to get back to the county council. He is drowning in the sea of his own incompetence.

He doesn't have to make sense; that's the whole point. He just has to keep saying 'western rail corridor' every chance he gets, and keep delaying the greenway. It's called riding all the horses in the race.

Del.Monte · 24-01-2017 8:11pm

Will the Athenry - Collooney line ever reopen as a railway?

Muckyboots · 24-01-2017 9:34pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Will the Athenry - Collooney line ever reopen as a railway?

Simon Peter said to them, “I am going fishing.” They said to him, “We will go with you.” They went out and got into the boat, but that night they caught nothing.

Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

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