North Korea v USA Mega Merge.

old_aussie wrote: »

The Japs started it and the Yanks finished it.

Saved possible 100,000's of allied lives.

Japan would have fought till the last man standing, costing possible millions of Jap lives.

I don't believe that they had the stomach to keep fighting. Humans are generally pragmatic in times of war and self-survival kicks in pretty quickly.

Not much different to wartime bluster shown by most leaders, including Churchill's "we'll fight them on the beaches". In the face of overwhelming odds of defeat everybody surrenders eventually.

Look at the Huffington Post right now and you will see that the headline stories focus on Rand Paul's old fashion filibuster, President Clinton decrying DOMA, critiquing the Drone Policy, and Justin Beiber fainting. We care more about Beiber fainting than we do NK's silly attempts to get our attention.

NK are posturing.

A big factor in nuclear weapons against Japan in WW2 was to get the Japanese to surrender before the USSR invaded Hokkaido, which they would then have kept after the war.

Initial insistence by the allies, in particular by the USA, that the imperial system be dismantled played a role in prolonging the war too.

I bet Dennis Rodman is feeling pretty sheepish right now.

Surely this would be all the excuse the US needs to start missile strikes on N.K. All Iraq had to do was give the impression they had WMDs and they got invaded, N.K has the weapons and has now said they will use them. I'm sure the US have a plan to take out N.Ks missile abilities quickly, I would think they could end N.Ks nuclear program within a few hours.

It even looks like the Chinese are distancing themselves from N.K now.

ScumLord wrote: »

Surely this would be all the excuse the US needs to start missile strikes on N.K. All Iraq had to do was give the impression they had WMDs and they got invaded, N.K has the weapons and has now said they will use them. I'm sure the US have a plan to take out N.Ks missile abilities quickly, I would think they could end N.Ks nuclear program within a few hours.

It even looks like the Chinese are distancing themselves from N.K now.

And if the Chinese distance themselves just a wee bit furhter, than what you said re: ending NK's missile program will surely come to pass. US won't do anything while NK is still a "friend" of China.

bizmark wrote: »

I take the word of american military predictions over your feelings any day

American military predictions used solely to justify their actions. Plus what kind of an accurate prediction is 250,000-4 million ?

P_1 wrote: »

Strategically it would be suicide for North Korea to do anything of the sort at the moment.

They don't have any allies and have a finite set of resources that can't possibly come near to competing with any of their perceived enemies.

They might have a shot if they took ourselves on but thankfully we are out of their range.

They still have China as ally, despite appearances to the contray. China may be joining in with sanctions and condemnation, but bear in mind they still are trading with N.K and the opposing ideologies of them and S.K and U.S

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

They still have China as ally, despite appearances to the contray. China may be joining in with sanctions and condemnation, but bear in mind they still are trading with N.K and the opposing ideologies of them and S.K and U.S

I meant allies in a military sense, sure China is trading with NK but do you think they would joint them in a shooting war if it were to kick off?

They still have China as ally, despite appearances to the contray. China may be joining in with sanctions and condemnation, but bear in mind they still are trading with N.K and the opposing ideologies of them and S.K and U.S

You know what, even if China was secretly pleased that America was weakened by a nuke, I think China itself would take out North Korea if it launched a Nuke.

Nuclear Arms is the line that a country never, ever wants another country to cross. Since, no matter how strong a country is, a nuke would damage it physically, but also sociologically.

Also, as much as you may not like this, but America is top dog. If North Korea attacked America, who wouldn't it attack?

But, to actually threaten to launch a nuke at America doesn't show a rational leadership.

Lol, North Korea are worried about Americans wiping out its population, in fairness, they have been trying to exterminate thier own population for years. I guess protecting your population for some imagined threat is more important than feeding your population.

North Korea would never manage to hit the US with a long range missile, it would be intercepted and destroyed. Seoul on the other hand is a much easier target to hit.

666irishguy wrote: »

LOL Vietnam was 40 years ago. Very different type of conflict. Unlikely the North Korean leaders will be waging a guerrilla war with the support of their own people or the Chinese who would much rather dollars than promoting world communism. Have you heard of Desert Storm? The fifth largest army in the world, apparently filled with die hard soldiers willing to lay down their lives for their glorious leader, was wiped out in 3 days. How long do you think the average North Korean conscript would last when the South Koreans and Americans will be using them as target practice since their own air force was blown out of the sky/shot to bits on the ground about 12 hours into the war?

Desert Storm was very different too. Crucially the terrain was largely open desert which maximised the advantages the coalition possessed; Korea is very mountainous in comparison. Allied air superiority failed to bring about victory there in 1950-53, although it helped massively in staving off defeat. The human element in the comparison is much less predictable but it's safe to assume that an utterly totalitarian regime ruling since the 1940s will have indoctrinated it's people much more completely than Saddam ever did the Iraqi's, particularly given the deep ethnic divisions within Iraq along which opposition to Saddam mobilized, which have no equal in NK. No one doubts that NK is beatable. South Korea itself is a potent military force before you even consider the colossus that is the USA. A conflict would be extremely damaging however, Both Korea's would be in ruins, Japan may suffer nuclear attack and the risk of conflict with China would be hugely heightened by an invasion of NK.

The Chinese wouldn't be promoting world communism by getting involved, they'd be reacting to the threat of the armies of the world's other superpower and ideological rival, the USA, engaged on their doorstep. Much as they enjoy making money their rise to economic power has been accompanied by a belief that they deserve consideration due to a superpower and respect for their spheres of influence is a must. I'd expect them to demand a preservation of NK as a buffer state, with the deposal of the Kims and a transition to a government similar to and aligned with China. At a minimum they'd insist on specific assurances of nonaggression and some degree of demilitarisation on the korean peninsula post-war

666irishguy wrote: »

I don't think the North Korean's are as brainwashed as the media portrays them. They can access Chinese and South Korean radio and television and have got knowledge of the outside world, people do escape and defect even the border guards who are apparently the most loyal have been known to dessert.
I think the terrain would be a slowing down point, though the Balklans are not too dissimilar to the Korea's in terms of mountains and forests and the campaign against Serbia was effective from the air and that was nearly 15 years ago. I think the North Korean's own propaganda would be their Achilles heal. Their morale would surely be shattered along with their reality once they start to get hit badly at home and on the battlefield. The Chinese are the unknown quantity though. I'd suspect they would not have the ability or the desire to get a large force together quickly enough to deter the USA or SK. They might however launched a limited invasion of whatever territory the North could command and set up a smaller Chinese style North Korea in that region as a buffer. Whether North Korea could actually launch a missile at say Japan would be another huge issue. I'm sure all parties surrounding North Korea have some sort of spy ring in place to provide some kind of warning if looks like it is coming to that.

Fair points. I think though that ultimately a conflict would be a huge bloodbath for everyone involved, even without Chins-US conflict. It would certainly leave recent US engagements like Iraq and Afghanistan in the shade in terms of troop losses as their forces would be engaged by a KPA assault from a standing start, as well as being within range of artillery, air and missile attack.

As a source of optimism regarding the risk of China's involvement the Chinese do have form for not letting border clashes escalate into all-out war since they had fairly large ones with the Soviets in the 1960s without going full tilt.

BTW fully agree with your points on dropping the A-bomb. I read that the US minted so many purple hearts in preparation for the invasion of Japan that they haven't had to make any new ones ever since and still have over 100,000 in stock. A land invasion would have killed far more Japanese too. Given the dedication of the Japanese and the near-certain resistence of the civilian population to the Allies it is likely that invasion would have been accompanied by almost total slaughter of all Japanese in combat areas until the Japanese surrendered. Bad as the figures of Hiroshima and Nagasaki appear, in the context of the times they were sadly not really abnormal. It was a time of total war, whereas nowadays we have limited military actions; Wars were won by massive firepower, whereas nowadays we have precision guided munitions.

Kim Jong Un, is like an inmature kid with a video game, only this is for real, lives will be lost