Gotham (Fox) [ Spoilers ]

pixelburp · 07-01-2015 9:55pm

Paddy@CIRL wrote: »

I don't want to read through the thread for fear of ruining it, but I watched maybe the first 20 minutes of the first episode before switching it off because of the awful acting / script. Does it improve much or is it just something you get used to?

There's more agency in the 'plot', but the standards of dialogue / scriptwriting stay about the same, sometimes getting better, but often getting worse. Some of the dialogue has to be heard to be believed. I'd half a mind about jumping back into this show but I just can't summon the interest; I ask myself 'what's the point?'

ricero · 08-01-2015 1:22am

Ah sheeeit boy its clay Davis up in here !

08-01-2015 1:45pm

I actually think that this has gotten very strong since they were able to stop the really forced introduction of characters, from the Batman universe.

Fish is by far the weak link now. just hams it up too much (even in a hammy show)

Mc Love · 09-01-2015 11:09pm

ricero wrote: »

Ah sheeeit boy its clay Davis up in here !

When he saw the two escaped inmates i was half expecting him to say it

JP Liz V1 · 14-01-2015 10:30pm

brian_t wrote: »

Gotham starts on RTÉ2 on Monday 26th January at 9.00 pm

.

Also Starring LeVar Burton · 19-01-2015 7:57pm

Just started watching over the last few days. All caught up now - so much better than I had anticipated it to be. Alfred and Bullick working together in episode 10 was great...

dublinman1990 · 19-01-2015 10:41pm

Since yesterday I heard news that Fox has given the green light for a 2nd series of Gotham.

http://www.theverge.com/2015/1/17/7629475/fox-gotham-season-2

19-01-2015 11:07pm

Please kill off Fish. It's like she took Eartha Kitt's playing of Catwoman as inspiration and decided to ham even that to 11

CastorTroy · 24-01-2015 1:52am

Phew, he beat the hardest character from Arkham Origins.

So why doesn't Jim live at Barbara's place since she's not using it and clearly she expects him to be there?

don ramo · 24-01-2015 7:07pm

CastorTroy wrote: »

So why doesn't Jim live at Barbara's place since she's not using it and clearly she expects him to be there?

sure weve known hes gone from there a while now, since kat and ivy stayed there, it was already gathering dust,

i like the new harder jim, we all know gordon is not corrupt, so they tried to play the character nicey nice, but just cause hes not corrupt doesnt mean he cant be a cnut, i loved when he told the commissioner that the next person who takes his badge hes gonna make them eat it,

also, nice shoes:D

thegreengoblin · 29-01-2015 12:12pm

Finally caught up with it all. There are times when I love this show and times when I feel like screaming at the TV. The latest episode was all over the place, it just felt really off. The Penguin nightclub scenes with his mother dancing and him getting pissed on champagne...wtf?? And Fish's 'torture' scene with yer man was hilariously bad...:pac::pac:

Are we to take it that Fish has disappeared and won't be back for a while? Pity she wasn't killed off completely. Her awfulness highlights how bad the female characters in this show are. Fish (there's nothing else to say that hasn't been said), Liza (wooden as a plank), Barbara (a simpering, whiny cow), Mrs Cobblepot (weird to the point that she's a total distraction). Essen and Selina are just about watchable.

Thankfully they've got it spot on with Penguin, Alfred, Jim (but less of the grimacing please!), Harvey and Falcone so that the show is able to just about keep its head above water. Hopefully the next episode

The Fearsome Doctor Crane

can breathe some new life into it.

Alfred Borden · 29-01-2015 12:27pm

I still really havent warmed to McKenzie's portrayal of Gordon, just find him very wooden.

ricero · 29-01-2015 1:22pm

Butch is the man !

TwoShedsJackson · 29-01-2015 6:01pm

Penguin's mother is pretty hilarious.

CastorTroy · 30-01-2015 12:41am

Having watched the film recently, it's hard to forget that Penguin's mother is the Ghost of Christmas Present in Scrooged.

squonk · 30-01-2015 12:55pm

I liked the latest episode but, for god's sake, if you're going to get to the point of apprehending Fish and torturing her, just kill her while you're at it. Better still, don't torture here, just kill her. It's now unfortunate that she'll return.

This though is the precise problem I have with all of these super hero shows. Any time there's a major baddy who is terrorising a city and who is quite adept and poerful there are two options.

a. Kill them
b. Send them away/Lock them up

Normally option A is the correct option but any bloody comic book based show automatically goes for option B. How can you take them seriously then? Arrow does it, Flash does it and now Gotham does it.

Invariably baddy escapes from incarceration or comes back out of hiding and the city is held to ransom again. It's more like a damn symbiotic relationship than a solution. The baddies keep getting free and coming back so the super hero keeps being needed. If the super hero just killed the bloody baddy to begin with it'd be done and dusted.

Christ imagine if someone just put Omar or Stringer Bell away for a period of time in the Wire somewhere where they were guaranteed to escape and come back with a vengence. It's childish.

30-01-2015 1:03pm

It's the difference between the villains and hero. The hero does not dispense justice, it's not his role. Hell Batman is taunted again and again and again by The Joker to break this and he never will. In fact I would see it as the Jokers ultimate victory if Batman ever does kill him.

In the animated JL series you got a glimpse of what would happen if the hero side started doing this, with the Justice Lords

Wikipedia wrote:

The alternate Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman try to stop the war, storming the White House and confronting Luthor (who threatens nuclear war). When he tells the alternate Superman that no matter how many times Superman sends him to prison, Luthor would find a way back to power, Superman kills Luthor with heat vision and decides that he likes this new form of "justice". The other Lords also lose faith in humanity.

Shane St. · 04-02-2015 9:39am

I was cringing at some of the dialogue between Gordon and the Doctor in the latest one

04-02-2015 10:23am

Shane St. wrote: »

I was cringing at some of the dialogue between Gordon and the Doctor in the latest one

You leave Inara alone, ya hear!

bren2001 · 04-02-2015 11:28am

Deleted User wrote: »

You leave Inara alone, ya hear!

If anything, the show could do with more of her

Last episode was awful tho,. Penguin managing to escape was plain right stupid (although done in a smart way), Fish's boat being invaded (by who?) and the killer taking the "Irish" girl from directly under Bullocks nose at the meeting. I look forward to the next episode solely based on the title alone.

04-02-2015 11:46am

bren2001 wrote: »

If anything, the show could do with more of her Last episode was awful tho,. Penguin managing to escape was plain right stupid (although done in a smart way), Fish's boat being invaded (by who?) and the killer taking the "Irish" girl from directly under Bullocks nose at the meeting. I look forward to the next episode solely based on the title alone.

If an American asks another is they are Irish it does not necessarily mean are they from Ireland and the Penguin escape was smart enough to work. And Crane Sr. (and later junior) is a nutjob, he did not care that a cop was present (given that the man spoke about the Crane scale for fear and his son was named Jonathan I am assuming that this was showing the genesis of Scarecrow)
I actually thought that it was great to see how Scarecrow's fear mist was formulated by taking the adrenal glands chemistry at the time of extreme fear (comic book logic at its best).

I had thought that we were done with Fish but no, still getting her crappy side mission type crap. Seriously the final shot of the episode was stupid.

bren2001 · 04-02-2015 11:49am

Deleted User wrote: »

If an American asks another is they are Irish it does not necessarily mean are they from Ireland

What's your point? I put it in inverted commas for that reason. I couldn't remember the girls name and really was not bothered googling it but so addressed her as the "Irish" girl.

Agent Coulson · 04-02-2015 11:51am

I think the whole Irish thing was put in just for Donal Logue who is very proud of his Irish heritage and seems to mention it in nearly every show or film he is in.

04-02-2015 11:53am

bren2001 wrote: »

What's your point? I put it in inverted commas for that reason. I couldn't remember the girls name and really was not bothered googling it but so addressed her as the "Irish" girl.

Because that can also come across as reading like "she was supposed to be Irish but obviously was not"

bren2001 · 04-02-2015 12:13pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If an American asks another is they are Irish it does not necessarily mean are they from Ireland and the Penguin escape was smart enough to work. And Crane Sr. (and later junior) is a nutjob, he did not care that a cop was present (given that the man spoke about the Crane scale for fear and his son was named Jonathan I am assuming that this was showing the genesis of Scarecrow)
I actually thought that it was great to see how Scarecrow's fear mist was formulated by taking the adrenal glands chemistry at the time of extreme fear (comic book logic at its best).

I had thought that we were done with Fish but no, still getting her crappy side mission type crap. Seriously the final shot of the episode was stupid.

Nicely edited....

Penguin stopping the crushing of the car was quite smart. I turned to the person I was watching it with and we both agreed it was somewhat believable. However, why would Maroni run away from the car to chase the operator leaving Penguin free to escape? Surely, he checks that Penguin cannot escape from the car or tries to operate it himself. The operator is completely irrelevant. I also don't understand why we learned that Maroni is "deceptively quick" for a big guy. They seemed to make a big point of it (irrelevant really).

I understand Dr. Crane Snr. is a lunatic and in fairness to the show, Captain Essen blatantly addresses that point. Why would a sociopath give away his identity? I don't think it makes sense. He would still want more victims, remaining anonymous for as long as possible makes sense. How he creates his mist is very good and makes perfect sense in the comic book world.

At least we (all I think) agree on Fish. Please die.....

Deleted User wrote: »

Because that can also come across as reading like "she was supposed to be Irish but obviously was not)

It still is completely off topic. Either way, we do not know if she is Irish or not but it is completely irrelevant to the point I was making.

04-02-2015 12:23pm

bren2001 wrote: »

It still is completely off topic. Either way, we do not know if she is Irish or not but it is completely irrelevant to the point I was making.

Yeah but I misread your ""Irish"" as being a "FFS she is not Irish", that's all I was saying.

In terms of Crane, he could have seen it that Bullock was suspecting the groups members anyway and that they would all be investigated. There were no identities given so they just have the description to go on.

04-02-2015 1:22pm

I actually hope that Barbara does not come back. They had ZERO chemistry on screen (she can come back in 9 months with a daughter for Jim, if they want)

Thompkins and Gordon really crackle on screen, IMHO

duridian · 04-02-2015 5:48pm

Shane St. wrote: »

I was cringing at some of the dialogue between Gordon and the Doctor in the latest one

TBH , as long as Dana Brody isn't sulking in the background, any scenes involving Morena Baccarin go in the plus column for me.

09-02-2015 3:08am

Just watched the first 2 episodes of this. As a fan of Batman and all things Gotham, I thought I'd hate this 'Smallville' interpretation of the universe but I'll definitely be watching more.

It's not perfect or anywhere near it, the dialogue is hammy and I'm already cringing at Jada Pinkett Smith chewing up and overacting every scene she's in, should make it all the better though if/when her character gets killed off. But I do like the look of Gotham and have warmed to some of the characters, notably Gordon, Bullock, Falcone and Penguin. I love that Gotham even has a 'look', first time that's happened since 2005's Batman Begins.

I think the Batman/Bruce Wayne element is handled well. The boy playing Bruce has a bit of gravitas about him and I loved his reply from episode 2 at a concerned Alfred and Jim; "I'm not hurting myself, I'm testing myself." More of that 'Mystery/Anguish bubbling under the surface' stuff will do just fine, no need to rush the Batman angle since Bruce is currently years from putting on the cape.

TL:DR: Just watched the first 2 episodes, pleasantly surprised, looking forward to watching more.

Alfred Borden · 10-02-2015 6:18pm

Probably the best episode yet tbh. The making of Scarecrow was very well done. Even Fish was ok

Agent Coulson · 10-02-2015 8:01pm

Next weeks trailer.. Big teaser spoiler.

human 19 · 14-02-2015 1:29am

stankratz wrote: »

Just watched the first 2 episodes of this. As a fan of Batman and all things Gotham, I thought I'd hate this 'Smallville' interpretation of the universe but I'll definitely be watching more.

It's not perfect or anywhere near it, the dialogue is hammy ......

It might sound like a cheesy film noir but I think it would fail miserably if it tried to place itself into a more modern setting. It is set in the time of the dialogue of the comics, where it belongs. Enjoy it's inherent hamminess.

We are too cynical to accept heroes nowadays, anyway.

The characters are (so far) either black and white, good vs evil, no corrupted tortured souls showing up so far, where we are hoping for their personal redemption 'cos they are basically misunderstood by society.

I am in it for the long haul...to watch the slow development of the characters ahgainst the backdrop of some quirky crimes that have to be solved every week.,

don ramo · 14-02-2015 1:53am

human 19 wrote: »

It might sound like a cheesy film noir but I think it would fail miserably if it tried to place itself into a more modern setting. It is set in the time of the dialogue of the comics, where it belongs. Enjoy it's inherent hamminess.

We are too cynical to accept heroes nowadays, anyway.

The characters are (so far) either black and white, good vs evil, no corrupted tortured souls showing up so far, where we are hoping for their personal redemption 'cos they are basically misunderstood by society.

I am in it for the long haul...to watch the slow development of the characters ahgainst the backdrop of some quirky crimes that have to be solved every week.,

yeah, a lot to be said for some hamminess on tv, i dont think i could accept the old 60/70s style hamminess, its just a bit hard to accept, but this is kind of a more modern style of hamminess that i like, good to see even hamminess rolls with the times

16-02-2015 12:50am

human 19 wrote: »

It might sound like a cheesy film noir but I think it would fail miserably if it tried to place itself into a more modern setting. It is set in the time of the dialogue of the comics, where it belongs. Enjoy it's inherent hamminess.

We are too cynical to accept heroes nowadays, anyway.

The characters are (so far) either black and white, good vs evil, no corrupted tortured souls showing up so far, where we are hoping for their personal redemption 'cos they are basically misunderstood by society.

I am in it for the long haul...to watch the slow development of the characters ahgainst the backdrop of some quirky crimes that have to be solved every week.,

I agree about the dialogue being appropriate for the setting. I'm just about halfway through the 'The Dark Knight Returns' comic as as adult trying to get into the comics after a lifetime of neglect, and the one thing that is throwing me off me so far is some of the dialogue. No I'm not expecting Shakespearean-style language for Batman's soliloquies or Coen Brother's-style humour for the comic relief, it's just taking me a bit of getting used to that's all.

Same with Gotham; I'm just after watching the episode with the 'Weather Balloon Vigilante' and I'm getting used to the dialogue as each episode goes by. However, I don't think I'll ever get used to Jada Pinkett or her character in this show, please end her soon.

I really did enjoy the episode though and am looking forward to the next. I copped the Balloon guy much earlier in the episode when he talked to Gordon about Selina Kyle. The minute that scene finished I thought to myself "Hey, that actor currently has a really prominent role in HBO's 'Veep', those 2 lines of dialogue were hardly worth his time appearing in Gotham...oh...wait!"

Overall, I'm liking the show. I'm not expecting and never did expect this to provide me with a new Breaking Bad or Sopranos, just entertain me. So far it is succeeding on that front, even with its flaws.

Snoopy1 · 16-02-2015 6:57pm

I can't stand Bruce or that annoying cat. I want them to be killed but alas I know they don't.

Agent Coulson · 17-02-2015 6:03pm

So I wonder have we met the Joker or is this another red herring.

whomitconcerns · 17-02-2015 6:07pm

thats clearly the joker in that trailer...has to be

Alfred Borden · 17-02-2015 6:20pm

I hope that's not the Joker. Very disappointed if so!

ricero · 17-02-2015 6:29pm

Hector Salamanca up in here !

aaaaaaaahhhhhh · 17-02-2015 11:48pm

Did notice how ginger the Joker was. Wonder is he related to Paddy in Kilkenny

ricero · 18-02-2015 12:09am

aaaaaaaahhhhhh wrote: »

Did notice how ginger the Joker was. Wonder is he related to Paddy in Kilkenny

Is he defiantly the joker ?

aaaaaaaahhhhhh · 18-02-2015 12:42am

ricero wrote: »

Is he defiantly the joker ?

I'm goin out on a limb and sayin yes. I dont read the spoilers but its too obvious for him not to be, plus its the right time to introduce his storyline

squonk · 18-02-2015 11:41am

I liked this week's episode. It was the first one I felt that really seemed like it was set in the Batman universe that I've come to know. The circus and freaky clowns certainly helped that. We also get to meet Dick Grayson's parents!

Was I the only one who figured that showing up at Wayne Industries and basically saying "When I get old enough to chair the board, things are going to change around here", somewhat foolhardy? It's leaving a calling card and anyone who has something to hide (which, by the sounds of it, they all had) will be either out to ensure he doesn't get onto the board or will have exited stage left with bags of money before that day comes.

Another aspect that made this episode for me was the offscreen violence Penguin meated out on the guy heckling his mother. Again it brough things back to the feel of a Batman universe where these guys are seriously screwed up badasses.

Why won't that mob turn on Fish? I thought her gaining control of the place was sketchy at best. Maybe it's just me but when the two guys showed up deciding who would be first to, presumably, rape and beat her, she got out of it by merely telling them she'd beat the crap out of them. She's a tough lady for sure but, come on!

Barbara is back... why? Anyone else find it odd that she arrived back to her house now filled with Ivy and her friends and just goes "Well who are you now?". Jim's traded up. I'm liking Marena Baccarin a lot in this. She's always a great addition to any show but she's giving a stand out performance so far.

TheDoc · 18-02-2015 3:16pm

I've struggled with this show since the start. While I am a massive batman fan, something seems off to me. I think it's potentially Gordon, I've more interest in the baddies and Gordon just seems to throw me off or something.

But the last two episodes had me gripped. I'm pot committed now. Jonathan Crane I thought was handled very well and well, the joker, it was compelling as it was enthralling. Obviously excited to know how they are going to deal with him, if at all. Certain part of me thinks he won't be a regular feature, if ever again, considering a bit part of the character is the mystery around him.

Really enjoying Edward Nigma in the show, thought his little spat with Penguin was excellent

don ramo · 18-02-2015 6:37pm

if thats the joker then im kinda disappointed, sure yerman isnt the full bob, but i cant see a mastermind in there,

im really liking Lee, shes a good fun character to have around, and as someone said why bring Barbara back, its pointless just move on, a lot of shows keep characters around for no reason, morena baccarin herself was kept around on homeland for no real reason herself,

drugstore cowboy · 19-02-2015 2:08pm

The guy playing the Penguin is knocking it out of the park.

If this kid is the Joker I'm okay with it as he did an okay job.

TheDoc · 19-02-2015 6:19pm

Is there debate he is not? I took nothing away other then he is the joker. If the laugh wasn't enough, the way his eyes and cheeks went during his smile was very Nicholson-esque.

Also seems pretty tight knit to one of the many joker origins stories that appeared over the years through written material.

drugstore cowboy · 19-02-2015 6:21pm

TheDoc wrote: »

Is there debate he is not? I took nothing away other then he is the joker. If the laugh wasn't enough, the way his eyes and cheeks went during his smile was very Nicholson-esque.

Also seems pretty tight knit to one of the many joker origins stories that appeared over the years through written material.

I saw Jack in him too! Wise move not to go the Heath Ledger route. The guy is a good actor as well, he plays a gay bi polar member of the Gallagher family in the USA remake of Shameless.

Sirsok · 20-02-2015 3:53pm

I immediately thought Jack Nicholson when he changed his demeanour, I really thought he was going to be the ****s but ended up really really enjoying his performance, looking forward to seeing him a bit more in the coming few weeks.

21-02-2015 2:10pm

He deffo had Jack about him but there was a mixture of Ledger there too. I was expecting a 'why so serious?' at one stage.

Brave move actually giving the Joker a back story in a series.

Gotham (Fox) [** Spoilers **]

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Gotham (Fox) [ Spoilers ]