Irish Teen Fears Execution in Egypt

Calibos · 02-12-2014 6:01pm

When the Arab Spring started, I immediately thought to myself that the people themselves will live to regret it never mind the west if they get involved. If the Iranian revolution was anything to go by at any rate. Yes, Iran and all these Arab countries had nasty torturing dictatorial regimes, Yes, the popular revolutions were moral and had right on their side. Unfortunately as in the case of Iran in the 70's, these popular student revolutions in the islamic world are always hijacked by the ultra violent religious fundamentalists and the countries end up in a worse state with the moderates involved in the initial protests realising that as bad as the Shah, Saddam, Mubarrak and Bashir etc regimes were, they are a hell of a lot worse under the islamists who always take over after the revolution.

A few weeks ago Britain talked about banning the return of any of their citizens who travelled to Syria and became combatants. The legislation was primarily aimed at those who joined ISIS. However there are hundreds of British combatants who just like the moderate arab spring revolutionaries I mentioned earlier have realised their mistake. They went to fight Bashir and found themselves not fighting Syrian Bashir forces but inter rebel fighting and/or horrified by the realities of what a lot of the islamist rebel groups were actually doing. ie. Realising they might even be on the wrong side in this.

I might still support Britain's stance on this and think its not worth the risk letting any of the fighters back in because it would be impossible to be sure you were only letting back in the disillusioned anti bashir moderate fighters and not any bat**** crazy ISIS members. However I could still find some sympathy in my heart for them believe it or not.

To my mind though this Irish Egyptian lad is a totally different kettle of fish. He was only involved in some protests FFS. Even if he travelled out there specifically to protest and not simply been caught up in unfolding events after he arrived. Like I said, all the arab spring movements/revolutions were moral, they were just naive to think that the islamists wouldn't take over. I won't condemn him for naivete especially as hes only 17. I'd condemn him if he had joined the likes of ISIS alright. But not only was he not a fighter in an ISIS like group, he wasn't a fighter in a moderate rebel group, he wasn't a fighter at all, he was involved in some street protests in a popular revolution that had 'Right' on its side (No matter how naive they were) .

I'd have zero concern about letting him back into the country.

Using the troubles as an example. If a Dublin lad was in the maze in the north after being involved in a bombing, I'd have said, let him rot up there. If a Dublin lad while visiting family up there had been arrested and imprisoned after marching in an SDLP civil-rights march, I'd want him released and have no problem him coming back. Saying this Irish Egyptian lad should never be allowed back is akin to saying you would not let the Dublin SDLP civil-rights marcher back as if he was an IRA bomber or something?

Karl Stein · 02-12-2014 6:02pm

denhaagenite wrote: »

Fact is, they went in knowing exactly the consequences that they were leaving themselves open to.

Even if we pretend this is true; so what?

Putinovsky · 02-12-2014 6:06pm

denhaagenite wrote: »

How many times do I have to reiterate, they were aware that there was unrest and travelled with full intent on joining it when they got to Egypt. There is really no point in me linking to their Facebook pages now as it was 7/ 8 months ago, but his sisters were constantly posting about it. Posted about nothing else except their "activism" if memory serves me correctly.

They go to Egypt every year. They were there long before any protests happened. Plenty of Irish people continued travelling back and forth to the tourist coastal regions in Egypt during this period.

denhaagenite · 02-12-2014 6:08pm

Karl Stein wrote: »

Even if we pretend this is true; so what?

So don't lie about it and treat us all like total morons. That was the point of the argument, should you care to have read it.

denhaagenite · 02-12-2014 6:10pm

Putinovsky wrote: »

They go to Egypt every year. They were there long before any protests happened. Plenty of Irish people continued travelling back and forth to the tourist coastal regions in Egypt during this period.

I never said they didn't. I'm just saying that on this occasion, they were not simply going out shopping as is the line they are using. Their own social media documented their intentions when they got to Egypt. It's not a suspicion, it's a fact.

Karl Stein · 02-12-2014 6:14pm

denhaagenite wrote: »

So don't lie about it

Who says they were lying?

Calibos · 02-12-2014 6:28pm

denhaagenite wrote: »

I never said they didn't. I'm just saying that on this occasion, they were not simply going out shopping as is the line they are using. Their own social media documented their intentions when they got to Egypt. It's not a suspicion, it's a fact.

Even if thats the case, so Fcuking what??? So what if they went out with the intentions to protest against a horrible regime??

Galwayguy35 · 02-12-2014 7:07pm

Well if they consider themselves Irish maybe stick to protesting about issues in this country, after all their parents came over here and looked for citizenship so that would suggest they wanted to get out of Egypt.

Speaking at a Muslin Brotherhood protest seems a bit strange, not a great crowd to be associated with.

Nodin · 02-12-2014 7:09pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Well if they consider themselves Irish maybe stick to protesting about issues in this country, after all their parents came over here and looked for citizenship so that would suggest they wanted to get out of Egypt.

..............

Does that mean that no Irish person can comment or protest about Sudan, Iran, Russia, Palestine, West Papua, Whaling or any other issue outside the borders, or does this just apply to people born abroad?

Karl Stein · 02-12-2014 7:15pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Well if they consider themselves Irish maybe stick to protesting about issues in this country

Why? Should that apply to Irish people of British or Polish heritage too?

Galwayguy35 · 02-12-2014 7:16pm

Nodin wrote: »

Does that mean that no Irish person can comment or protest about Sudan, Iran, Russia, Palestine, West Papua, Whaling or any other issue outside the borders, or does this just apply to people born abroad?

Let them comment all they want, if they value their safety let them keep out of dangerous places where getting involved in protests run the risk of ending up like the fella we are talking about.

Galwayguy35 · 02-12-2014 7:18pm

Karl Stein wrote: »

Why? Should that apply to Irish people of British or Polish heritage too?

What Irish people of Polish heritage?

AlanS181824 · 02-12-2014 7:27pm

I thought he was going to be executed because he was gay or something, nope it's because he went over intentionally looking for trouble!

In fairness I'm still sympathetic to him but he should have never went over in the first place!

Jawgap · 02-12-2014 7:27pm

Nodin wrote: »

Does that mean that no Irish person can comment or protest about Sudan, Iran, Russia, Palestine, West Papua, Whaling or any other issue outside the borders, or does this just apply to people born abroad?

Of course they can - but if they get in bother and the Irish ambassador negotiates an edit for them they can opt to take advantage of that or they can reject it and roll the dice with the local judiciary.

SwiftJustice · 02-12-2014 7:29pm

Calibos wrote: »

Even if thats the case, so Fcuking what??? So what if they went out with the intentions to protest against a horrible regime??

I think the point is they went out to Eygpt with the intention of protesting FOR A HORRIBLE REGIME - the Muslim Brotherhood. I hope he rots over there.

Karl Stein · 02-12-2014 7:29pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

What Irish people of Polish heritage?

I'm sure we have tens of thousands of Irish people of Polish heritage here. Would you support their natural right to go to Poland to support their relatives in the event of political/social upheaval?

Galwayguy35 · 02-12-2014 7:36pm

Karl Stein wrote: »

I'm sure we have tens of thousands of Irish people of Polish heritage here. Would you support their natural right to go to Poland to support their relatives in the event of political/social upheaval?

What difference does it make to anyone here if Poles go over to their country to protest?
They aren't going to look to the Irish Government to bail them out if they get in trouble.

Where are these people of Polish heritage?

We have Polish people here, they only started coming here 10 yesrs ago.

Karl Stein · 02-12-2014 7:44pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

What difference does it make to anyone here if Poles go over to their country to protest?

You tell me?

They aren't going to look to the Irish Government to bail them out if they get in trouble.

I'm sure they would.

Where are these people of Polish heritage? We have Polish people here, they only started coming here 10 yesrs ago.

I'm confident we have plenty of Irish citizens of Eastern European heritage leaving secondary school these days.

Galwayguy35 · 02-12-2014 7:51pm

Karl Stein wrote: »

You tell me?

I'm sure they would.

I'm confident we have plenty of Irish citizens of Eastern European heritage leaving secondary school these days.

No they wouldn't because Poland isn't a country where you get thrown in jail indefinately for protesting and it has no death penalty, I really didn't think this needed explaining to you.

Nope we don't have plenty of Irish citizens of EE heritage leaving secondary schools, the oldest of them would be barely 10 years old.

RobYourBuilder · 02-12-2014 7:51pm

Karl Stein wrote: »

I'm sure we have tens of thousands of Irish people of Polish heritage here.

No we don't. There were just over 3k Poles here in 2001 as per the census. Unless you expect a load of pre-teens to be running back to Poland, what's your point?

The Halawa chap is an Egyptian citizen in an Egyptian jail for attending Muslim Brotherhood rallies were himself and his siblings claimed to be "Egyptians from outside". Not Irish. Not Irish Egyptians. But Egyptians.

He's Oirish when suits.

Putinovsky · 02-12-2014 8:55pm

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

No we don't. There were just over 3k Poles here in 2001 as per the census. Unless you expect a load of pre-teens to be running back to Poland, what's your point?

The Halawa chap is an Egyptian citizen in an Egyptian jail for attending Muslim Brotherhood rallies were himself and his siblings claimed to be "Egyptians from outside". Not Irish. Not Irish Egyptians. But Egyptians.

He's Oirish when suits.

He's an Irish national with Egyptian heritage. Get used to it. The guy was born in Dublin and has lived here all his life.

Care to explain to me how someone born in Ireland who has lived here all his life is not actually Irish?

skooterblue2 · 02-12-2014 9:08pm

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

There were just over 3k Poles here in 2001 as per the census.

The Halawa chap is an Egyptian citizen in an Egyptian jail for attending Muslim Brotherhood rallies were himself and his siblings claimed to be "Egyptians from outside". Not Irish. Not Irish Egyptians. But Egyptians.

He's Oirish when suits.

The Eastern Europeans are notoriously suspicious of any government collecting data. Considering the regime before and since WW2 I seriously think that many Eastern European who may have been working Cash in Hand opted out of the Census.

If the Department of Foreign Affairs tell you they are concerned about a developing situation, that means all hell is breaking loose. This guy should have been in School or studying in College and instead he is joining a regime that wants to subvert the West. He is well beyond our zone of influence. Made his bed let him lie in it.

fedor.2. · 02-12-2014 9:12pm

Let his father go get him

skooterblue2 · 02-12-2014 9:13pm

Putinovsky wrote: »

He's an Irish national with Egyptian heritage. Get used to it. The guy was born in Dublin and has lived here all his life.

Care to explain to me how someone born in Ireland who has lived here all his life is not actually Irish?

The same some lads in Boston are american but signing up for the Ancient Order of Hibernians. Their bodies may be in America but their heart is here.

Its times like this when he was called to respond that he answered the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood call. So when he gets back to Ireland. Do you think it is over? No he is going to be down the Mosque telling impressionable teens it is their duty to join the struggle overseas.

Icepick · 02-12-2014 9:18pm

SwiftJustice wrote: »

I think the point is they went out to Eygpt with the intention of protesting FOR A HORRIBLE REGIME - the Muslim Brotherhood. I hope he rots over there.

Any evidence for this claim?

skooterblue2 · 02-12-2014 9:20pm

Well he and his sisters didnt go over there picking bananas. They were warned before they left there was trouble and they were at protests

fedor.2. · 02-12-2014 9:21pm

Icepick wrote: »

Any evidence for this claim?

Ah excellent, an insider, please tell us the real reason he went there

denhaagenite · 02-12-2014 9:22pm

Icepick wrote: »

Any evidence for this claim?

The video of them speaking on behalf of the Brotherhood at the rally, posted a couple of pages ago...

RobYourBuilder · 02-12-2014 9:25pm

The Halawas went over there on holliers and ended up leading tens of thousands of people at a Muslim Brotherhood rally. Could happen to anyone.

You lads would swallow a brick.

Putinovsky · 02-12-2014 9:28pm

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

The Halawas went over there on holliers and ended up leading tens of thousands of people at a Muslim Brotherhood rally. Could happen to anyone.

You lads would swallow a brick.

Care to answer my question on how a person born in Ireland who has lived in Ireland all his life is not actually Irish?

RobYourBuilder · 02-12-2014 9:30pm

Putinovsky wrote: »

Care to answer my question on how a person born in Ireland who has lived in Ireland all his life is not actually Irish?

Sure. Watch the video I linked to earlier where the Halawas state that they are "Egyptians from the outside".

Karl Stein · 02-12-2014 9:30pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

No they wouldn't because Poland isn't a country where you get thrown in jail indefinately for protesting and it has no death penalty

I asked if in the event of political/social upheaval, like we see in Ukraine, not a holiday. Short of getting the crayons out I can't make it any more simple

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

No we don't. There were just over 3k Poles here in 2001 as per the census. Unless you expect a load of pre-teens to be running back to Poland, what's your point?

Lots of people moved here with their children who'd now be Irish citizens by law and thus entitled to Irish consular assistance.

The question is hypothetical. The heritage of these people is inconsequential; Polish, Ukrainian, Somali, Israeli, Nigerian, Black, White, Asian, Muslim, Christian or Jew, it doesn't matter they're Irish.

Do you people accept that your fellow Irish citizens have the right to return to their countries of heritage, for whatever reason, and as Irish citizens have the right to consular assistance as Irish citizens if they end up in situations that require it?

fedor.2. · 02-12-2014 9:30pm

Putinovsky wrote: »

Care to answer my question on how a person born in Ireland who has lived in Ireland all his life is not actually Irish?

Beside the point really. If I go to Florida, on holiday, and wreck the gaff, then get arrested for it, are you gonna come get me, are ya?

fedor.2. · 02-12-2014 9:32pm

Karl Stein wrote: »

I asked if in the event of political/social upheaval, like we see in Ukraine, not a holiday. Short of getting the crayons out I can't make it any more simple

Lots of people moved here with their children who'd now be Irish citizens by law and thus entitled to Irish consular assistance.

The question is hypothetical. The heritage of these people is inconsequential; Polish, Ukrainian, Somali, Israeli, Nigerian, Black, White, Asian, Muslim, Christian or Jew, it doesn't matter they're Irish.

Do you people accept that your fellow Irish citizens have the right to return to their countries of heritage, for whatever reason, and as Irish citizens have the right to consular assistance as Irish citizens if they end up in situations that require it?

No

end of the road · 02-12-2014 9:32pm

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Sure. Watch the video I linked to earlier where the Halawas state that they are "Egyptians from the outside".

they are of egyptian herritage, but actually irish citizens. end of.

skooterblue2 · 02-12-2014 9:32pm

Putinovsky wrote: »

Care to answer my question on how a person born in Ireland who has lived in Ireland all his life is not actually Irish?

The same way some lads in Boston are American but signing up for the Ancient Order of Hibernians. Their bodies may be in America but their heart is here.

Its times like this when he was called to respond that he answered the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood call. So when he gets back to Ireland. Do you think it is over? No he is going to be down the Mosque telling impressionable teens it is their duty to join the struggle overseas.

This Lad is no Choir boy, he is over there as part of regime change for unified Muslim state. He was warned when going

UCDVet · 02-12-2014 9:36pm

That article seemed awfully biased to me, or do they not include the allegations against him because Egypt is so corrupt as to not supply them?

If he's just some poor kid who was studying abroad and got arrested for nothing, I feel for him.

If he went to Egypt and *broke the law* and was arrested for it. Well, I'm mostly okay with it. I wish they'd treat their prisoners better.

If he went to Egypt and did something really bad or intentionally broke the law, because he wanted to....then I'm totally okay with it.

skooterblue2 · 02-12-2014 9:38pm

Karl Stein wrote: »

Do you people accept that your fellow Irish citizens have the right to return to their countries of heritage, for whatever reason, and as Irish citizens have the right to consular assistance as Irish citizens if they end up in situations that require it?

You dont have a right to it if you were forewarned by the DoFF, used great efforts to get there and then put yourself in the way of danger and got caught. Its not the Irish Governments Job to sort out every idiots problem. I also make reference to the two dopes in Peru who were working as Porridge Sales Reps

Karl Stein · 02-12-2014 9:40pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

when he gets back to Ireland. Do you think it is over? No he is going to be down the Mosque telling impressionable teens it is their duty to join the struggle overseas.

Hey Nostradamus, while you're peering into the future could you get me next weekend's lotto numbers? Good man.

Karl Stein · 02-12-2014 9:42pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

You dont have a right to it if you were forewarned by the DoFF

Is there some sort of booklet that says this or are you making it up as you go along?

RobYourBuilder · 02-12-2014 9:46pm

Karl Stein wrote: »

Hey Nostradamus, while you're peering into the future could you get me next weekend's lotto numbers? Good man.

Well, his dad is the Imam of the Islamic Cultural Centre of Ireland and heavily linked with the Muslim Brotherhood and look what happened there. The family went to Egypt on holidays and ended up leading a Muslim Brotherhood rally that was attended by tens of thousands.

Yet you lads want people to believe that he was an innocent bystander that got caught up in it all.

skooterblue2 · 02-12-2014 9:50pm

I am more for Britain, If you want to go fight for your "Nation" go ahead, but dont comeback here looking for all your social rights/privileges such as social welfare, housing, health care, police protection, education and training. The EU is funding arms to resist ISIS/Muslim brotherhood you cant have your cake and eat it. Once you go you should stay out there.

end of the road · 02-12-2014 9:51pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

You dont have a right to it if you were forewarned by the DoFF, used great efforts to get there and then put yourself in the way of danger and got caught.

you do have a right to it. no matter what. thats the end of it

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Its not the Irish Governments Job to sort out every idiots problem.

as they are irish citizens, then it is

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I also make reference to the two dopes in Peru who were working as Porridge Sales Reps

they are entitled to assistence also, and got it

Nodin · 02-12-2014 9:51pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

You dont have a right to it if you were forewarned by the DoFF, used great efforts to get there and then put yourself in the way of danger and got caught.

They left before warnings were issued.

skooterblue2 · 02-12-2014 9:53pm

Karl Stein wrote: »

Is there some sort of booklet that says this or are you making it up as you go along?

https://www.dfa.ie/travel/travel-advice/a-z-list-of-countries/egypt/

Which part are you not clear on?

end of the road · 02-12-2014 9:53pm

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Well, his dad is the Imam of the Islamic Cultural Centre of Ireland and heavily linked with the Muslim Brotherhood and look what happened there. The family went to Egypt on holidays and ended up leading a Muslim Brotherhood rally that was attended by tens of thousands.

Yet you lads want people to believe that he was an innocent bystander that got caught up in it all.

the same Muslim Brotherhood who were democratically elected by the people and overthrown by a corrupt military? yeah

end of the road · 02-12-2014 9:56pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I am more for Britain, If you want to go fight for your "Nation" go ahead, but dont comeback here looking for all your social rights/privileges such as social welfare, housing, health care, police protection, education and training. The EU is funding arms to resist ISIS/Muslim brotherhood you cant have your cake and eat it. Once you go you should stay out there.

yeah. like that load of old rabel rabel bull**** is ever going to happen. these people will be coming back to britain as britain will be forced to take responsibility for its citizens whether it wants to or not, and they will be able to do nothing about it.

fedor.2. · 02-12-2014 9:58pm

end of the road wrote: »

the same Muslim Brotherhood who were democratically elected by the people and overthrown by a corrupt military? yeah

The people wanted the Muslim brotherhood gone, did you miss the mass protests

skooterblue2 · 02-12-2014 9:58pm

"Your safety is your responsibility
You are wholly responsible for making decisions about your own travel.

We can’t be held responsible for any injury or loss you may suffer as a result of relying on our travel advice. "

DoFA travel advice ...... https://www.dfa.ie/travel/travel-advice/

I am not sure they were going to the World Teddy bear Picnic Jamboree in Egypt.

PeteFalk78 · 02-12-2014 9:58pm

end of the road wrote: »

the same Muslim Brotherhood who were democratically elected by the people and overthrown by a corrupt military? yeah

This is a democratic establishment?

Muslim Brotherhood leader Walid Khatab says “The streets would sink in blood and the police and army are of no value to us
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm887hVNM-A
A Morsi supporter threatenes to burn the country after being arrested at Al Nahda sit in
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g49VlsGtd0
Muslims Brotherhood resisting police during the disengagement of the sit in at Rab3a al Adaweya
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO3Rh3OdDOg
Weapons that have been seized during the disengagement of the sit in at Al Nahda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owIS8IqiRek
Security found a coffin filled with ammunition, pistols, cartridges at Al Nahda sit in
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIAX41kLkdY
Brotherhood burning tents and belongings before Disengagement their sit-in
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdkb0XfYrJ0
Violence and attacks of government installations in Egypt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkGn7h_eeuY
A fire set on in a church in Minya
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRNq3KCSmhw
More than 20 dead bodies found under Rab3a Al Adaweya platform
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1paxyysbOBc
Brotherhood elements ignite fires in Cairo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REZv5E4bFvk
Muslims Brotherhood cut Game3et Al Dewal Street and the masked men fire shots
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTTTNpgsRKY
Muslims Brotherhood cut Game3et Al Dewal Street and the masked men fire shots
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JdL9lPU9mw
Police seized a large quantity of weapons and live ammunition at Al Nahda sit in
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lROCtr2hyNU
Scenes of the killing os Kerdasa Department officers by members of the Muslim Brotherhood
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljuk2WH3iYE
Dragging and killing of a taxi driver by supporters of the outsed president in Alexandria
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VYsU9goF74
Protesters setting fire at Rabaa Al Adaweya mosque before departure
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsLd6GOI7yg&feature=share
Field execution chamber and the gallows at the hospital at Rabaa Al Adaweya
http://videoyoum7.com/?p=218865
Worldwide scandal broadcasted by the Egyptian television of the Muslim Brotherhood and watch what they did
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfoWLuro-X8&feature=share
Muslims Brotherhood tried to kill photographers while being filmed using their gunshttps:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=544233678957492

Irish Teen Fears Execution in Egypt

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