Prometheus SPOILERS FROM POST 1538

BarackPyjama · 02-06-2012 1:37am

Hrududu wrote: »

I stayed away from all the hype and was looking forward to it but I left feeling disappointed. About an hour in I realised it just wasn't going to be the film I'd hoped it would be. For me a big problem was that I just didn't care about any of the characters. The only one that was any way engaging was David. The rest were either annoying or bland.

I seemed to spend the whole film thinking 'wait, what?' So much of it made no sense. Characters did things without any motivation, then nothing was mentioned about it again.

I'll spoiler the specifics:
Spoiler 1:
I have no idea what the deal was with David. Nobody had any idea what they would find on the planet. But he seemed to have more information than everyone else. It was almost like he was programmed with a command:

IF
Some weird sh!t is happening
THEN
Get right in there, bring specimens back, and em sure infect a crewmate to see what happens. Pick the one you like least...infect with what? Oh we don't know yet because we know nothing about what you're going to see, but if there's infecty stuff there then do some infecting.
ELSE
Watch Lawrence of Arabia and redo roots

Spoiler 2:
The Space Jockeys plan is also confusing. I think the timeline was:
1. Go to Earth and kill everyone
2. Change your mind, for some reason, and decide not to kill everyone
3. Drink some goo and jump in a river so that humankind is created from you
4. Paint some murals on walls all over the world
5. Or is that make contact with humans all over the world who then paint their own murals of you
6. But the humans didn't exist yet
7. Make sure the murals point to the planet you use for creating weapons.
8. This will mean that the humans (that you created) can find it.
9. But while you're waiting go back to the planet and build some more weapons so that you can go to Earth and kill everyone.

I mean, my brain hurts. That makes no sense. And how did Shaw figure that they had changed their mind about killing humans? She came out with it near the end but I've no idea where she got that idea. It was like the captain deciding that this wasn't their home planet, it was a planet they used for developing weapons. Ok. He just presented this as if it was a fact and not a theory, and the rest of the film just went along with it. Down to Shaw going off looking for the home planet in the end. The home planet she has no way of knowing exists. For all she knows they all lived on the other side of the planet/moon.

Spoiler 3:
So did the space jockeys create the goo? Did they create the goo that turns into worms that turns into snakes that jump into your mouth? Or did they get infected another way?

And how did those Aliens work? Worms>Snakes>Mouth, did they then pop out of their chests in a different form than we're used to seeing?

Because they seemed to work differently for humans.

Biologist>Snake>Mouth = Dead
Geologist>Acid>Face = Being able to bend his legs over his head, distorted head, crazy.
Charlie>Tiny Worm in drink>Into eye = Veiny face, looks like he's going to burst before he gets set on fire.

Is the reaction Charlie had the same one the decapitated alien had?

Spoiler 4:
The alien we know and love. So is that a result of...deep breath:
Tiny worm in drink>into eye>sexy time>demon baby>demon baby down space jockey throat = xenomorph?

This seems to suggest that this sequence is what created the alien from the original film. But earlier in Prometheus we see a mural/sculpture of the xenomorph so it clearly already exists.

And why would the space jockeys have a big picture of it in their ship?

That makes it sound like I hated it, I didn't. I just felt it could and should have been a lot better. And it gave me one of the biggest laughs.
When Shaw realised she had an alien inside her she went running to the magic surgery machine. There was an amazing second where I genuinely though the scene was going to play out like this:

Machine: Please describe the procedure you want performed.
Shaw: ABORTION!!!!
Machine: You have chosen *slight change in voice* abortion *revert to normal voice* Please step into the machine and await the start of the procedure.

Yep. Lots of very massive questions that need to be asked having watched that.

However - my (s**te) theory about the initial population of Earth by the Engineers *might* be their discovery that they could populate a large, fertile planet with sustainable life that they could feed off. Maybe they realised their own planet was dying? Or that they'd have a second home to go to should they need it? Or maybe they're essentially predators and were using Earth as an experiment. Hard to know what Scott et al were thinking. I'd love some answers.

Goldstein · 02-06-2012 1:40am

Disappointing. After waiting so long and avoiding the later trailers, this was very blockbustery, predictable and pretty dumbed down sci-fi. More after further reflection but it's not a great movie by any stretch.

I believe I can sum it up in a word: proMEHtheus™

i57dwun4yb1pt8 · 02-06-2012 1:49am

this is a fantastic sci fi horror in fantastic 3d , but an alien pre quel it is not

too many random tangents and no real tie in to alien
( this was dissaponitng , but as a stand alone movie it is really good )

if you want to see a cool movie , this is one to go to .
but do not expect to have your alien 1 questions answered well.

cursai · 02-06-2012 2:24am

Drivel. Am sickened. alien Resssuresction is class by comparison. THe whole movie is a copout and a cashcow for future sequels for new generation Aliens fans and wannabe film buffs who will over intellectualise anything. E.G. The Artist.

BarackPyjama · 02-06-2012 2:26am

cursai wrote: »

Drivel. Am sickened. alien Resssuresction is class by comparison. THe whole movie is a copout and a cashcow for future sequels for new generation Aliens fans and wannabe film buffs who will over intellectualise anything. E.G. The Artist.

What did you dislike specifically?

The King of Moo · 02-06-2012 2:32am

Saw it earlier, I'd give it a 7 out of 10: good effort, but not great. I admire its ambition and attempt to do something different and more intelligent than the average Hollywood blockbuster. I felt like it was crafted with a lot of love too.
The performances were generally good, but especially Fassbender. He really imbued David with a great sense of ambiguity throughout the film, always leaving me wondering if he had ulterior motives or if I was just reading that into his emotionlessness.
And even though his character was fairly minor, I liked Idris Elba.
I watched it in 3D and though it was never distracting, I think I could've managed just fine without it.
Though there were lots of problems (spoilery ones, detailed below), and I think they will detract from its reputation long term, I still hope the film's a success because it might make Hollywood take more risks by prioritising intelligence, ambition, originality and a bit of loving care in the making of films.
It's a flawed film, definitely, but the good kind of flawed.

Still:

Though I don't mind the ambiguity overall (I prefer not knowing where the engineer was at the start of the film or what exactly the context was), I think a little more clarity about one or two things might've given the film some more narrative momentum. It sometimes felt like there was no real goal, or else there were too many things going on at one time.
And some things just don't make sense, like why give humans a sign to come to this secret military installation?

The film was just too muddled overall: it felt like it was trying to do too many things, and this came to a head in a ten-minute period where huge narrative events piled on top of each other and felt rushed as a result.
You had finding the two scientists, David exploring the bridge, Holloway getting burned, Shaw discovering she's pregnant and immediately getting rid of the creature, then stumbling onto the revived Peter Weyland. It all felt so rushed because the film never got to dwell on these things.
Though the c-section scene, for example, was a great little horrifying piece of cinema in its own terms, it felt quite jarring, as though it had been shoehorned into the script (I don't know anything about the original more Alieny script, but I feel it was an element of that [maybe developed over the course of the film in that script] which was kept for this film to give it an Alien connection). It felt so weird that it was brought up and then resolved in the space of a few minutes, then she stumbles upon Peter Weyland in her bandages, covered in blood and with giant stitches, and no-one bats an eyelid and she just sits down calmly after a minute! Then no-one mentions her alien pregnancy for the rest of the film!

I felt the inclusion of a number of different monsters/ways to create monsters really muddled things. There was the fly-in-the-eye which seemed to be turning Holloway into a monster which also impregnated Shaw with a squid baby when they had sex, which then grew into a squid monster which killed the engineer and made a proto-alien. And that was in addition to the penis snake which killed the biologist and whose acid blood turned the geologist into a folded-up werewolf thing. It just added too much confusion to the already complex alien life-cycle. And though it might have made a kind of logic to have a number of threats, given a bioweapons lab would've had a few different types, it didn't make sense from a narrative point-of-view. The film lacked a clear threat, especially when you figure in the engineers as monsters themselves.

That leads me on to the epilogue with the creation of the proto-xenomorph. Not only did it contradict what they said about not really being connected to Alien, but for me, it cheapened the xenomorph, by making this mysterious monster into the end result of: eye insect + human sex = squid baby + engineer = xenomorph!
I think the film would've been better without the pregnancy at all. Even if it meant losing the great medilab scene, it would be better overall as the scene didn't feel like it fit with the rest of the film for me. I think they should've left the links to Alien at the Engineers also being the Space Jockey, and not try to work the xenomorph into it.
I think it also undermines the film, which was doing ok being only tangentially related to Alien. Having the revelation as the epilogue only makes that undermining worse, like they weren't confident in the film working on its own terms.
Also, I don't get why there was a seemingly reverential sculpture of a xenomorph on the wall on the ship if they'd never existed before. Even if an engineer had been eaten by a squid monster before and created a xenomorph, why put the sculpture up in a place of honour?

Finally: the advertising. Unfortunately it did spoil a lot, though I don't think it ruined it. I just don't get why they'd show Prometheus ramming the Engineer ship when it's such a crucial, late plot point. And I would've preferred if the revelation of the Engineer ship being under the pyramid had been kept as a surprise, or at least if I'd guessed that's what it was from the architecture, rather than showing the ship in the trailers and the poster.

e_e · 02-06-2012 2:46am

cursai wrote: »

Drivel. Am sickened. alien Resssuresction is class by comparison. THe whole movie is a copout and a cashcow for future sequels for new generation Aliens fans and wannabe film buffs who will over intellectualise anything. E.G. The Artist.

Come on, if you're gonna use an example of over intellectualization a film as innocent, simple and feel good as The Artist is not the way to go.

al28283 · 02-06-2012 2:49am

It was pretty dissappointing, the after credits scene was the best part of the entire movie

opinion guy · 02-06-2012 3:05am

Ok potentially random comment....

but....

Did anyone else think there was a tip of the hat to the Predator movies?

Particularly I mean the size of the engineers, the way they moved/threw people about the place and very, very specifically - I thought the hologram recordings of the Engineers running down corridors and moving about the bridge were VERY like scenes from the Predator franchise where the Predator was semi-visible.

opinion guy · 02-06-2012 3:07am

And also

At the end of the credits there was a date displayed - either 10/11/12 or 11/10/12
Wtf is this about does anyone know ?

pearsquasher · 02-06-2012 8:39am

Got to agree with the majority....a big mess, too many plot holes. The idea of the jockey being a human origin species was a nice suprise but....Jesus was sigourney behind the scenes on this too? I think only one guy can do the alien story justice because he did it before.........in the sequel. Reboot time....

Scanlas The 2nd · 02-06-2012 8:46am

opinion guy wrote: »

And also
At the end of the credits there was a date displayed - either 10/11/12 or 11/10/12
Wtf is this about does anyone know ?

I left before the credits ended, what happened,

cynder · 02-06-2012 8:49am

Prometheus was s**t. Really disappointed. Can't believe I wasted 8 euro to watch that cr**.

TerrorFirmer · 02-06-2012 9:03am

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I left before the credits ended, what happened,

Assuming that's a reference to the

Xenomorph scene

? I've actually already forgotten if that was pre or post credits.

Have to say I enjoyed it. Granted, may not have been entirely the movie it could have been, but hugely enjoyable, and a significant step above an awful lot of what passes for sci-fi the last while.

leonidas83 · 02-06-2012 9:16am

CMON NOW PEEPS, I THINK EVERYONE NEEDS TO CALM DOWN HERE, WAS THE FILM A 'MOSTLY' BETTER EFFORT THAN ALIENS, NO, WAS A GOOD FILM, IT CERTAINLY WAS ESPECIALLY WHEN U COMPARE IT TO THE KIND OF DRIVEL WE'VE SEEN IN THE CINEMA RECENTLY, BLOODY THE AVENGERS AND MEN IN BLACK 3

CyberGhost · 02-06-2012 9:41am

pearsquasher wrote: »

Got to agree with the majority....a big mess, too many plot holes.
The idea of the jockey being a human origin species was a nice suprise but....Jesus was sigourney behind the scenes on this too?
I think only one guy can do the alien story justice because he did it before.........in the sequel. Reboot time....

Hey how about some spoiler tag courtesy in your OP?

Black Sheep · 02-06-2012 10:02am

OK, saw it yesterday and to be honest I enjoyed it (the opening aerial shots, the landscapes, the music, the design aesthetic of the suits, the ships etc if nothing else)... But, like others, I've been trying to make sense of some of the plot-related questions that arise since then.

I know some of these have been aired in the thread before, so apologies for the repetition, but here goes:-

1. OK, so we know from Scott interviews that he regarded the original space jockey (SJ) ship as being like a 'trucker whose cargo got out of control' situation, or something to that effect. In Prometheus we've got a planet which appears to be some sort of installation which has resulted in the death of those SJs maintaining it - prior to a trip to exterminate humanity. Fine- so looks like they make us, then they change their mind and decided to kill us off (failed experiment? Jealousy? Religious pogrom?)... But if that's the case, why the murals send us to them ... ? Why bother? If the murals were painted during some friendly contact-phase prior to their deciding to kill us then why do they point to a weapons installation planet? And if it dates to after they decided to off us all then why bother sending us to them thousands of years later if the plan was to zoom over in a space-ship before then? Seems like a long back-up plan.

2. When Shaw talks about a change of mind on the SJs part TBH I didn't take it that she was saying they changed their mind about exterminating us (and it was then that the biotech got out of control) ... I thought she just meant they changed their mind as in they create us but then decide to kill us - and now she wants to know why they want us dead. If they decided to kill us and were thwarted only by the installation getting out of control then this would explain why, upon waking up, the last SJ seems to have more or less immediately begun carrying on the plan to head to earth to kill us off.

3. Scott has mentioned in interviews, I gather, that the Xenomorphs/Aliens of the first films have a limited lifespan. Some fans have theorised that if they are a bioweapon then they could be dropped on planets and would then scour them clean before dying off. As a bioweapon that would kind of make sense ... IF the 'black goo' from the urns created Xenomorphs.. But judging by Prometheus it doesn't immediately... In fact it seems to do a variety of things. The way in which the black goo functions seems complex:-

(1) It weaponised the worms into vaguely facehugger like long worm-like creatures that nail the geologist and biologist.
(2) When consumed in the drink it seems to either kill or change the host slowly and obviously the host's sperm seems to create the squid-like facehugger that Shaw's character cuts out. This squid like thing then dramatically grows in size...
(3) These giant squid-like facehuggers seem to create something closely resembling the xenomoprhs/aliens from the first 2 movies when they get their hands on an SJ an impregnate it at the end of Prometheus. Although this xenomorph we see looks more biological/organic than the sort of biomechanical xenomorphs of the first two movies.
(4) It appears to have made the dead SJ's head explode after death, when a current was run through it. Was that how they died when they all piled up? If so, what were they running from?
(5) It reanimated a corpse of the tattooed bearded geologist and made it behave vaguely like some berserker zombie or something (or possibly a worm that crawled into him did this?)...

4. Based on the mural in the cavern room with the giant head the xenomoprhs as we know them for the first movies appear to be known to the SJs. So does the black goo ultimately create them in the manner outlined above? Seems rather ridiculously complex. Judging by the murals the xenomorphs were important to them... But this seems like a rather long-winded way of creating them, if this is the case.

5. For that matter, what was up with the giant head / mural / green crystal room with the urns set out like that? Why were the SJs running towards that room, with one getting his head chopped off on his way in..? If they were all in trouble, why run towards that room? Was the green crystal some control / failsafe device? As said before - what or who were they running from?

6. For that matter, how did all the SJs that were piled up die - what variety of death did the black goo inflict on them?

Long post, my apologies. Judging from a Scott interview he has a plan for a sequel, leaving the door open to Shaw's character going to some further planet... Which 'will not be paradise'.

NotInventedHere · 02-06-2012 10:18am

This is a plot synopsis I found from 2011

paddy kerins wrote: »

Possible plot synopsis

"Earth. The beginnings of our world. In an opening montage, we watch as our primordial planet is terraformed and bioformed by seemingly all-powerful, Godlike alien entities…the ENGINEERS. The seeds of life are introduced to Earth for the first time by these fantastic extra-terrestrials, who have the power to create and manipulate both mechanical and biological matter at will. The montage ends as the earliest genetic recipe for life is sent forth from the Engineers’ massive, towering CITADEL in the dark desert.

The desolate desert of Africa: 2085. The prehistoric ruins of the Engineers’ Citadel is discovered by a corporate construction team tasked with building a nuclear-powered comm-array in the wilderness. Amidst the ancient remains are found highly advanced, biomechanical relics with are determined to be of extra-terrestrial origin. This catches the attention of the mega-conglomerate WEYLAND-YUTANI CORPOTATION, who finances a massive archaeological excavation of the citadel in the hopes of reverse-engineering the alien biotech for financial gain. Running the operation is MEREDITH VICKERS, a cold, calculating corporate executive, who recruits intelligent and independent astrophysicist DR. ELIZABETH SHAW to head up the research team. Assisting Dr. Shaw are xenoarchaeologist DR. THEO ZEDMORE and her fellow astrophysicist DR. LOGAN. Shaw uncovers the secret of the citadel when she discovers a chamber of star charts, which seem to lead the way to the home planet of the Engineers. Also uncovered is evidence suggesting that the Engineers had a database of all life on Earth, and may even have been responsible for its creation including Man.

In a partially-submerged MANHATTAN, Vickers meets with Dr. Shaw and an OPO, (Off-Planet-Officer), CAPTAIN JERAMIAH JANEK, and plans a space mission following the discovered star charts in an effort to find and make first contact with the Engineers. For the scientists and explorers onboard, it will be a journey of discovery, but for Vickers, it’s merely a way of obtaining new technology so that Weyland-Yutani may retain the lead in the competitive race to establish colonies off-world.

The depths of space: 2090. A highly-advanced, top-of-the-line ISRV (Interstellar Research Vessel) PROMETHEUS decelerates as it reaches its target solar system. The vessel’s crew emerges from their cryo-chambers. Along with Elizabeth Shaw, Theo Zedmore, Logan, Meredith Vickers, and Captain Janek, the crew of the Prometheus is comprised of: First Officer MUDOW, Security Officer RAYDEN HOLLOWAY, Navigator CHANCE, Helm Officer RAVEL, Operations Android DAVID 4.0, Political Officer ALDRICH, Medical Officer FRANCIS, Engineer YURI, and Technical Officers SIENA, LETTUP, and TEMBROOK. The crew gets acclimated to their removal from cryo-sleep, their muscles in atrophy from five years without use. Holloway assists Shaw in her physical therapy exercises.

The crew prepares for arrival at the home planet of the Engineers. Shaw and Holloway are instantly attracted to each other, initiating a romantic relationship. However, as they enter the Zeta 2 Reticuli star system, Prometheus encounters a massive disturbance which hadn’t appeared on scanners, one even more powerful than a black hole: a wormhole in space. Prometheus is sucked into the wormhole, and after a harrowing ride, emerges on the other end. The ship crashes on a barren planet, which the damaged computer system identifies as the mission’s final destination.

The crew sets about attempting to repair the Prometheus, while Elizabeth Shaw leads a recon expedition to investigate nearby structures, which turn out to be a cavernous Engineer temple. Inside the temple, Shaw’s team encounters a bizarre BIO-BRAIN, a biomechanical humanoid face set within a towering pillar, as well as thousands of seemingly primitive URNS. David takes several of the urns back to the vessel for analysis.

Investigating the urns, David discovers that they contain the genetic material for thousands of species within a viscous liquid called BIOFORMER which can rewrite any living organism on a cellular level. Basically, possession of the substance gives its owner the power to create life. Vickers interacts with David and seemingly innocently leads to the Bioformer infecting David through a cut in his finger.

Within the depths of the Temple, we find several living Engineers who discover the transgression of the Humans, and remotely rewrite the stolen Bioformer to make it into a weapon. The Engineers capture Holloway and run a number of horrific experiments on him, injecting him with the Bioformer and allowing him to return to the vessel.

Subsequently, the crew of the Prometheus begins to fall victim to the now weaponized substance, as the “carrier” Holloway injects Ravel, Zedmore, Francis, Siena, Lettup, and Tembrook. The victims begin to lose their humanity and slowly transform, experiencing nightmarish visions and hallucinations and making pilgrimages to the depths of the Temple to receive instructions from the Bio-Brain. Holloway, in particular, is resistant to the transformation, fighting against the alien influence with his feelings for Shaw and his responsibilities as security officer. Meanwhile, David finds that the Bioformer is making him into a biological being…making him Human. The crew also finds that their trip through the wormhole took them back hundreds of millions of years and they are actually stranded on primordial Earth, having moved through space and time.

Eventually, as alien influence and the continued lurking presence of the Engineers becomes clear, the crew of the Prometheus turns on each other as the infected human victims fully mutate into PROTOFORMS: vicious, skeletal alien monstrosities which proceed to assault the unaffected Human crew through the halls of the Prometheus.

Mudow, Logan, Chance, Aldrich, Yuri, and Janek end up being destroyed by the Protoforms. In a strange, erotic ceremony, the Protoforms seemingly mate with the Bio-Brain and each other to create thousands of EGGS, the first of a new generation of the monsters. Meredith Vickers is revealed to be a sleeper CONSTRUCT of the Engineers, who are still active in their far future and Shaw’s present due to the time-travelling abilities of the wormhole. Vickers was grown in an Engineer lab but escaped, fleeing to Earth while always wanting to her find creators and take their power. The Engineers activate Vickers’ secondary GENE PROGRAMMING, and she transforms into an ALPHA PROTOFORM: the STAR BEAST.

At last, the two remaining crew members, Elizabeth Shaw and David, seek to confront the Engineers in the Temple. The Godlike entities prove to be utterly evil, and David sacrifices himself as he’s dissolved in the LIFE SEED BIOFORMER which is the basic genetic recipe for MAN: the former android David, it turns out, is the basis for all Mankind. Shaw is captured by Holloway, but he regains enough of his humanity to remotely activate an Engineer vessel for Shaw’s escape, then holds the other Protoforms and Engineers at bay. As Shaw escapes, she finds herself in the midst of the initial Engineer terraforming of Earth which we had witnessed in the opening montage, chased by the former Meredith Vickers who is now the gigantic, horrific Star Beast.

Shaw makes to her escape vessel which blasts off for the wormhole, Holloway fighting the Star Beast with both falling into the wormhole and disappearing. An Engineer PILOT detaches from the Temple in a FAMILIAR VESSEL and follows Shaw, but is lost in the wormhole. Shaw emerges above the Earth of her present day; however, she’s deemed insane and responsible for the loss of her expedition and confined to a psychiatric hospital by the Company. It’s implied that there are at least some of those who believe Shaw’s tale, but have silenced her as part of a cover-up.

In the final scene, we see the vessel of the Engineer that was chasing Elizabeth Shaw emerge from the wormhole in the Zeta 2 Reticuli star system, still in the prehistoric past, and crash on a nearby planetoid, the Engineer Pilot helplessly lost and the EGGS in the ship’s cargo hold stirring as something alive moves from within…

The Beginning

Don't know what to think of it myself. Definitely sounds unique, that's for sure

That would possibly have been a better film

Necronomicon · 02-06-2012 10:33am

The King of Moo wrote: »

Saw it earlier, I'd give it a 7 out of 10: good effort, but not great. I admire its ambition and attempt to do something different and more intelligent than the average Hollywood blockbuster. I felt like it was crafted with a lot of love too.
The performances were generally good, but especially Fassbender. He really imbued David with a great sense of ambiguity throughout the film, always leaving me wondering if he had ulterior motives or if I was just reading that into his emotionlessness.
And even though his character was fairly minor, I liked Idris Elba.
I watched it in 3D and though it was never distracting, I think I could've managed just fine without it.
Though there were lots of problems (spoilery ones, detailed below), and I think they will detract from its reputation long term, I still hope the film's a success because it might make Hollywood take more risks by prioritising intelligence, ambition, originality and a bit of loving care in the making of films.
It's a flawed film, definitely, but the good kind of flawed.

*snip*

Very nice summary, I very much agree with the sentiment that it was a bit too 'busy' for lack of a better term.

It was hard to differentiate between the different alien threats which they came across. I too was bothered by the aftermath of the C-section scene; despite their fear of contagions, nobody seemed to care that Shaw was running around covered in blood, nor did they notice that an alien was locked in the super-fancy piece of medical equipment. Even in the scene when they're suiting up with Weyland to go back to the ship, the Scottish doctor that Shaw assaulted to escape is in the room and there isn't a hint of acknowledgement about what happened.

I have to say though that

I liked the epilogue. I can see why some people thought it was a bit cheesey, and why you felt that it detracted from the mystique surrounding the Xenomorph race, but the Alien fanboy in me just reacted with glee I have to admit. Perhaps because I found it unexpected, given how Ridley Scott seemingly distanced the film from the Alien franchise in interviews.

It does leave me with questions about the events of Alien though. I tried to avoid information about the film as much as possible in the build-up, so much so that I was mistaken about its premise; I thought that the events took place on the planet where the Nostromo would land on several hundred(?) years later. So when the Engineer's ship was sabotaged and crashed, I figured that he was the one that would be found in the pilot's seat by the crew of the Nostromo in Alien. It makes you wonder how those events unfolded if the Xenomorph's origins began on LV-233 where Promethus landed.

Paul1979 · 02-06-2012 10:49am

absolute turd of a movie.....

fro9etb8j5qsl2 · 02-06-2012 11:06am

Meh

Too much hype and not enough movie.... Did anyone else think that the yokes were the head off Paul O Connell??

opinion guy · 02-06-2012 11:18am

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I left before the credits ended, what happened,

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Assuming that's a reference to the
Xenomorph scene
? I've actually already forgotten if that was pre or post credits.

Nothing happened. The

xenomorph scene

was before the credits. At the very very end of the credits there was some sort of copyright notice along the lines of 'Preceding filmreels copyright of Weyland Industries. something something due 11/10/12'
The date may be wrong

rednik · 02-06-2012 11:46am

Watched it in 3D in the Savoy last night. The 3D itself is almost as good as Avatar and Hugo. The film was very enjoyable but left a lot of questions. I am a huge fan of Alien, Aliens is ok but the rest I can't enjoy. Scott has done a very good job with this and there should be another movie.

The cast are very good with Fassbender outstanding. Noomi Rapace was very good. Every time I looked at Holloway on the screen I honestly thought it was Tom Hardy. I am going to see it again this week in the Odeon at the Point. Hard to believe it is 32 years since I saw Alien in the cinema.

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1725742848/nm1334869

Bullseye1 · 02-06-2012 12:05pm

I'd love to see this in the Savoy. Its been a long time since i visited it. I think Spider-man might have been the last one.

johnny_ultimate · 02-06-2012 12:27pm

Heh, a film that divides opinion this much has got to be doing something right somewhere along the line :P It's too dumb, too intelligent, too vague, too obvious, too generic, too ill-defined: loving the lack of consensus

A lot seem to be thinking the film leaves a lot of unanswered questions (as I said, I couldn't disagree more) but there is one piece of Lindelof / Lost DNA that really defines this film. Basically, it's riffing on that same

Man of Science, Man of Faith that defined much of the earlier thematic and character development of the show. Shaw is an evolution of John Locke: a true believer whose determined belief is ultimately rewarded. The cross necklace, I think we can all agree, is a clunky metaphor. In this case, Jack becomes, well, everyone else really, although David is ultimately the key figure for this ideological conflict. He is actually unable to believe: a man of fact (which, to me, explains why he went out of his way to test the primordial goop on Holloway. Of course, also to test for Weyland what the effects of consuming it would be: not positive, it transpires). It's why both these characters particularly need to survive, as they represent two extremes of ideological separation.

That said, it's not anywhere near as simple as that: largely because Shaw, despite her faith, is ultimately a scientist too, and suggests the two can (need to?) co-exist. There is to me a slightly questionable intelligent design subtext running underneath it all, despite the fact that there are some admirable attempts at discussing evolution - perhaps I'm reading too much into this, but in having the character who believes in a higher power vindicated, this is every bit as Christian at its core than The Tree of Life.

That said, it is just an often pulpy science-fiction film at the day, so I wouldn't agree the philosophical ponderings are in anyway harmful or damaging, even for those who don't buy into it. They're interesting ideas to deconstruct and analyse even if you don't agree with 'em (and I certainly don't).

Still, having such ideas presented in a blockbuster of this budget is a positive step, even if I ultimately don't entirely agree with some of its ideological 'messages' (if you could call it that). That it goes on the examine objectivism -

with Weyland representing the selfish, Atlus-Shrugged existence

- and Darwinism -

despite the turgid delivery of the epilogue, the fact that the Xenomorph ancestor wasn't quite there yet was a nice touch

- is icing on the cake in a sci-fi that attempts to explore grander ideals. How successful it is? Well that's up to the individual to decide (I'd say it's a mixed bag but mostly raises some interesting questions).

But yeah, that basic drive that propelled so much of Lost's central character conflict is present and correct here, and if there's anything that shows Lindelof's fingerprints on the project, it's that.

bluebelles · 02-06-2012 12:47pm

I wish I had the patience to read through 92 pages, but I don't

I've seen much discussion about the following on another forum, but I'd like to ask for some clarification on here.

There is a lot of debate about why the Engineers wanted humans destroyed. I assumed it was because after creating the Xenomorphs they decided that all their genetic creations were potentially dangerous and must be destroyed?

messinkiapina · 02-06-2012 12:59pm

After seeing this, I've decided I no longer want a Bladerunner sequel. I think the real Ridley Scott was abducted by aliens sometime after the original Bladerunner. Duncan Jones is the only hope sci-fi now.

pinksoir · 02-06-2012 1:10pm

Something occurred to me there

How do we know that it was the Engineers' plan to destroy life on Earth all along? It's strange the way that the last remaining Jockey cradles David's face and then suddenly rips his head off. Almost as if he realises that the life that the Jockeys had created has itself created life. Maybe the MO of the Jockeys is to make sure they are the only beings with the capacity to create new life.

Or am I forgetting something obvious that shows it was their intention all along.

Handsome Bob · 02-06-2012 1:10pm

bluebelles wrote: »

I wish I had the patience to read through 92 pages, but I don't

I've seen much discussion about the following on another forum, but I'd like to ask for some clarification on here.
There is a lot of debate about why the Engineers wanted humans destroyed. I assumed it was because after creating the Xenomorphs they decided that all their genetic creations were potentially dangerous and must be destroyed?

They must have liked us at first, evident by their trips to different civilisations throughout time illustrated by the cave markings. Maybe somewhere along the line we forgot about our creators and organised religion took their place, hence their hatred for us?

opinion guy · 02-06-2012 1:34pm

pinksoir wrote: »

Something occurred to me there
How do we know that it was the Engineers' plan to destroy life on Earth all along? It's strange the way that the last remaining Jockey cradles David's face and then suddenly rips his head off. Almost as if he realises that the life that the Jockeys had created has itself created life. Maybe the MO of the Jockeys is to make sure they are the only beings with the capacity to create new life.

Or am I forgetting something obvious that shows it was their intention all along.

This is pure speculation on my part. As we know there have been many great extinctions on planet Earth over millions of years - dinosaurs etc etc. They didn't allude to that in the movie, but I'm wondering maybe is there an implication the Engineers were responsible for this cycle of extinction and new evolution - for whatever experimental reasons they had. Perhaps they were coming to destroy humanity simply because it was time for another cycle of their grand experiment ??? It wasn't about humanity at all we just happened to be there ?

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Heh, a film that divides opinion this much has got to be doing something right somewhere along the line :P It's too dumb, too intelligent, too vague, too obvious, too generic, too ill-defined: loving the lack of consensus

Agreed

That it goes on the examine objectivism -
with Weyland representing the selfish, Atlus-Shrugged existence
- and Darwinism -
despite the turgid delivery of the epilogue, the fact that the Xenomorph ancestor wasn't quite there yet was a nice touch
- is icing on the cake in a sci-fi that attempts to explore grander ideals. How successful it is? Well that's up to the individual to decide (I'd say it's a mixed bag but mostly raises some interesting questions).

Another thing that has occurred to me since seeing the movie. Through all the Alien movies - the evolution of the Alien has been a feature - very rapid evolution at that - it takes DNA from its victims and mutates itself. Such a creature should it exist, would have a very very short period of existence due to its high mutation rate.
Anyhow I'm not sure how this is relevant but it occurred to me - haha

steddyeddy · 02-06-2012 1:41pm

opinion guy wrote: »

This is pure speculation on my part. As we know there have been many great extinctions on planet Earth over millions of years - dinosaurs etc etc. They didn't allude to that in the movie, but I'm wondering maybe is there an implication the Engineers were responsible for this cycle of extinction and new evolution - for whatever experimental reasons they had. Perhaps they were coming to destroy humanity simply because it was time for another cycle of their grand experiment ??? It wasn't about humanity at all we just happened to be there ?

Agreed

Another thing that has occurred to me since seeing the movie. Through all the Alien movies - the evolution of the Alien has been a feature - very rapid evolution at that - it takes DNA from its victims and mutates itself. Such a creature should it exist, would have a very very short period of existence due to its high mutation rate.
Anyhow I'm not sure how this is relevant but it occurred to me - haha

Well it could have epigenetic controls to stabilise its mutation rate post maturity.

Edit: It would have to have strong epigenetic controls in place.

opinion guy · 02-06-2012 1:43pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well it could have epigenetic controls to stabilise its mutation rate post maturity.

Edit: It would have to have strong epigenetic controls in place.

Given by the scene where

the says the Engineer DNA is exactly the same as human DNA

I think we may both be crediting them with too much knowledge

steddyeddy · 02-06-2012 1:49pm

opinion guy wrote: »

Given by the scene where
the says the Engineer DNA is exactly the same as human DNA
I think we may both be crediting them with too much knowledge

True, very true!

HerbSimpson · 02-06-2012 2:01pm

I have to say I really enjoyed this film but would agree it was far from perfect.

The main annoyance for me was also the DNA\conflict with evolution aspect, at least the film acknowledged this if not answered it when one of the characters raised the question.

I also thought it tied in very well with Alien and I would consider it a 100% prequesl

The space jockey was explained, the Alien ship was the same, it hinted the aliens may have been biological weapons, giant facehugger etc.

Trine · 02-06-2012 2:03pm

NotInventedHere wrote: »

This is a plot synopsis I found from 2011

That would possibly have been a better film

Wow, wish that was the film I had seen! I'm not too clued up on how films are made, would this have been an older draft? Or just a fan-made attempt at creating the story from a few tid-bits that were leaked?

Another thing I had forgotten about,

when the crew first enter the Engineer's ship, David find's goo over the controls that trigger the first hologram. Was that related to the kind of secretion that the classic Xenomorph's exhibit?

MetalDog · 02-06-2012 2:30pm

Ok saw this last night, and I was just wondering, how

if the spaceship that crashed is the one in Alien, and the pilot/space jockey/engineer followed Shaw into the lifeboat and was subsequently killed by the "alien" while in the lifeboat, why then is there a space jockey dead in the pilot's seat in Alien ? Did another one come out of stasis, get impregnanted by an alien and then try to fly it? did the alien haul the other one back to the ship

?

Just saying.

pinksoir · 02-06-2012 2:35pm

It's not the same ship.

HerbSimpson · 02-06-2012 2:37pm

MetalDog wrote: »

Ok saw this last night, and I was just wondering, how
if the spaceship that crashed is the one in Alien, and the pilot/space jockey/engineer followed Shaw into the lifeboat and was subsequently killed by the "alien" while in the lifeboat, why then is there a space jockey dead in the pilot's seat in Alien ? Did another one come out of stasis, get impregnanted by an alien and then try to fly it? did the alien haul the other one back to the ship
?

Just saying.

They said there were many ships on the planet, it's possible Alien was a different ship on the same planet, or maybe the space jockey suit was just empty but closed.

MetalDog · 02-06-2012 2:38pm

pinksoir wrote: »

It's not the same ship.

Ok so you reckon that

The other Engineers came out of stasis and tried to get the hell off the planet as soon as the sh1t hit the fan, and suffered similar fates? Or that another engineer ship landed on the planet, only to be set upon by the newly evolved xeno's

? I think you could be right on both counts.

pinksoir · 02-06-2012 2:44pm

I would only be guessing! But remember

the planet in Prometheus is not LV426 so it's possible that the ship in the original Alien came from a different planet, or from some other installation on the same planet. I don't think there were any other Jockeys left in stasis, he was the last one. However, there could have been other installations elsewhere on the planet where there were Jockeys in stasis. We don't know and it's left totally open. But yeah, the planet in Prometheus is LV223 or something.

MetalDog · 02-06-2012 2:53pm

pinksoir wrote: »

I would only be guessing! But remember
the planet in Prometheus is not LV426 so it's possible that the ship in the original Alien came from a different planet, or from some other installation on the same planet. I don't think there were any other Jockeys left in stasis, he was the last one. However, there could have been other installations elsewhere on the planet where there were Jockeys in stasis. We don't know and it's left totally open. But yeah, the planet in Prometheus is LV223 or something.

It's equally possible that

LV223 is LV 426. The Company would most likely lie about the Prometheus mission, saying that it was lost without trace, it's a billion light years away after all. I also wouldn't put it past them to rename or reclassify the planet, seeing as this film predates Alien by decades if not more

Technocentral · 02-06-2012 2:56pm

Personally I approached it as a very stylish sci fi/horror flick about aliens in the general sense and really liked it, don't know why your all getting caught up in the why this? why that? of it, thats only going to lead to disappointment, Blade Runner is my favourite film of all time but I don't care if Dekard is a replicant, I just love the over all story, design and performances, its just entertainment at the end of the day not a film about the war in the ex Yugoslavia or Iraq.

pinksoir · 02-06-2012 2:58pm

Possible but not equally so. Companies don't classify planets, it wasn't Weyland Corp who discovered it in the first place. The planet is definitely in the same system, though.

MetalDog · 02-06-2012 3:02pm

pinksoir wrote: »

Possible but not equally so. Companies don't classify planets, it wasn't Weyland Corp who discovered it in the first place. The planet is definitely in the same system, though.

Ok, now I think that

I need to get out more

johnny_ultimate · 02-06-2012 3:12pm

Technocentral wrote: »

Personally I approached it as a very stylish sci fi/horror flick about aliens in the general sense and really liked it, don't know why your all getting caught up in the why this? why that? of it, thats only going to lead to disappointment, Blade Runner is my favourite film of all time but I don't care if Dekard is a replicant, I just love the over all story, design and performances, its just entertainment at the end of the day not a film about the war in the ex Yugoslavia or Iraq.

To be fair, it's a film that lends itself to some level of detailed analysis usually absent in Hollywood films. However, personally I feel the thematic content is far more engaging and worthy of debate than any of the lore or narrative stuff. It's a sci-fi film, and the fiction part of the descriptor is key. You could get lost in nitpicky debates, which to me completely takes away from the point of science-fiction in the first place. Not to say there aren't a number of niggling inconsistencies worth flagging (there is), but the film for me provided food for thought far removed from the aspects many seem to be focusing on. Any questions the film didn't answer weren't really worth answering, or the filmmakers illustrating a willingness to leave some aspects of the film up to the viewer's imagination or interpretation.

I still think it's a flawed and awkward film in a significant number of ways, and I'd stop short of calling it 'great'. But it's interesting and ambitious enough to warrant debate and applause, and I'd disagree with accusations that it's dumbed-down or a complete flop.

Technocentral · 02-06-2012 3:16pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

To be fair, it's a film that lends itself to some level of detailed analysis usually absent in Hollywood films. However, personally I feel the thematic content is far more engaging and worthy of debate than any of the lore or narrative stuff. It's a sci-fi film, and the fiction part of the descriptor is key. You could get lost in nitpicky debates, which to me completely takes away from the point of science-fiction in the first place. Not to say there aren't a number of niggling inconsistencies worth flagging (there is), but the film for me provided food for thought far removed from the aspects many seem to be focusing on. Any questions the film didn't answer weren't really worth answering, or the filmmakers illustrating a willingness to leave some aspects of the film up to the viewer's imagination or interpretation.

I still think it's a flawed and awkward film in a significant number of ways, and I'd stop short of calling it 'great'. But it's interesting and ambitious enough to warrant debate and applause, and I'd disagree with accusations that it's dumbed-down or a complete flop.

Don't mind the odd few comments but there's people on here with nearly full pages of spoilers with questions in them! My point is if you need that much questions answered you'll never be happy with anything!

johnny_ultimate · 02-06-2012 3:19pm

We'll probably put a spoiler tag in the thread title on Monday to avoid the reams of greyed-out bits. Just need to give it a weekend to die down and provide the 'on-the-fencers' with some general opinions.

Handsome Bob · 02-06-2012 3:47pm

Technocentral wrote: »

Personally I approached it as a very stylish sci fi/horror flick about aliens in the general sense and really liked it, don't know why your all getting caught up in the why this? why that? of it, thats only going to lead to disappointment, Blade Runner is my favourite film of all time but I don't care if Dekard is a replicant, I just love the over all story, design and performances, its just entertainment at the end of the day not a film about the war in the ex Yugoslavia or Iraq.

That's a bit of a cop out though as many fans felt what was going to be so great about this film was just how deep it was going to be.

tok9 · 02-06-2012 3:47pm

I wasn't sure what to make of it when I came out of the cinema last night which is usually a good sign. After a nights sleep I still find myself thinking about it so I definitely enjoyed it.

One thing that isn't up for debate is that the movie is gorgeous. It really is a fantastic spectacle. Between the landscape and the set, all the visuals were perfect.

Pretty much everything has been said but I don't think anyone has mentioned about the opening of the movie. Any opinions on

why the 'engineer' drank the black stuff?

Bullseye1 · 02-06-2012 3:57pm

I have to say I am amazed at the negativity towards this movie. What were people expecting? If you leave the influence James Cameron had on the Alien franchise and go in with an open mind I cannot see how one could not be entertained by this movie. Sure some the parts were miscast, dialogue left a lot to be desired and the music was confused in places but the overall look and feel to the movie was worth the price of admission IMO.

Prometheus *SPOILERS FROM POST 1538*

Comments

Prometheus SPOILERS FROM POST 1538