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Terminally ill 16-year-old takes his anti-suicide campaign to RTE

13567…16

Comments

  • #102
    wayhey
    Registered Users Posts: 527 ✭✭✭wayhey


    candy-gal1 wrote: »
    Il just put my 2cents in here, I know im going to get slated for it as I have done before.
    Everyones entitled to their own opinion imho on matters like this so Im not saying my viewpoint is right and everyone should think the same, but when people say things like "oh mental illness can be as bad as/worse having cancer/terminal diseases etc it just makes my blood boil!

    You're absolutely right that discussion is needed and people are allowed to have subjectivity about the pain or impact of their diseases. Someone may find cancer worse than depression.
    candy-gal wrote:
    You can pretty much get cancer/terminal diseases sometimes for no reason at all, non smoker/getting regular checkups etc, but depression is something that your not exactly going to die from unless of course you commit suicide because of it!
    Now maybe Im wrong, and If I am and its proven that people do die purely from having depression, I actually do apologise.

    I don't understand your argument, especially the "but". People can get cancer or depression with no clear instigating event beforehand. Your view of "dying from depression" is overly simplistic. Do you know anyone with diagnosed depression? Maybe you're one of the luckier estimated 3 in 4 to avoid mental health issues.

    People diagnosed with depression are at a significantly increased risk of suicide versus members of the general population. You almost suggest that suicide is a "choice" for these people. That's simply not the case. Otherwise people with depression would have the same suicide risk as members of the general population. There is something intrinsic to this condition which increases one's likelihood of suicide, just as someone with cancer is more likely to experience blood clotting accidents. Someone with cancer cannot "will" away a deep vein thrombosis any more than someone in the grip of a serious depressive, suicidal episode can "decide" not to take their life. People often don't die of their primary cancer, but rather where it has spread and complications arising from that. Suicide can be consider such a sad secondary effect of depression.

    candy-gal wrote:
    And yes, tough love isnt a great approach with someone who has depression, but it can work in some circumstances, it is a MENTAL illness though - aka brain power/feelings/thinking or over thinking moreso imho.

    The evidence is not open to this interpretation. Do you have any professional health training? Do you understand basic neurochemistry and neurotransmitters? As brain imaging techniques become more advanced it is increasingly becoming more apparent that we can measure and assess "mental" illness. Mental suggests an invisible force but this isn't the case. There are physical causes for neurological conditions. Parkinson's could once be considered a "mental" illness because its origin is in the brain but it is caused by a lack of a chemical called dopamine used in minute amounts in the brain to control muscle contractions. Development of synthetic dopamine was a huge advance in treating it. Imagine that, a physical treatment for a disease that is "mental" in origin. These things are not easily studied because of the blood-brain-barrier which regulates which chemicals come in and out - but just because it is not easy does not mean we should jump to the willpower argument.

    Depression or suicide are not a matter of willpower. I, like you, believe that people are entitled to their opinion. Yet in light of scientific evidence, your opinion is not valid. It is condescending to think that these people can "pull themselves together" or "will themselves out" of an episode of illness. I really hope that you or someone close to you never has to realise that, because it is this attitude that makes people feel like "failures" for seeking help when they "should be able to cope".

    candy-gal wrote:
    Btw if your a functioning depressant - aka working/getting on with life with some setbacks on occaision then I actually applaud you tbh.
    We have one life, this one, its not a dress rehearsal, so make what you can out of it and be as happy as you possibly can be.

    What of someone who can't "get on with life"? Are they failures?

    I am glad that people are discussing this and all opinions are being put out. It's the only way that anything will change.

    Anyone reading this thread, if you are struggling, look for help. There's absolutely no shame or weakness in doing so.


  • #103
    starlings
    Closed Accounts Posts: 683 ✭✭✭starlings


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Imagine how it feels to be so depressed you fcuking kill yourself in the first place. Where something so central to your life - self preservation - is ripped away.
    Christ.
    Sitting around going "well the family is upset" without a word of why someone would do that in the first place?
    Study your course a bit harder.

    why is it such a heresy to consider the feelings of those bereaved by suicide?

    It is entirely possible to sympathise with and try to understand both the person who commits suicide and the people they leave behind. In fact, the focus on one side at the expense of the other is what is truly selfish here.


  • #104
    Annalee Helpful Sheepskin
    Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Annalee Helpful Sheepskin


    starlings wrote: »
    why is it such a heresy to consider the feelings of those bereaved by suicide?

    It is entirely possible to sympathise with and try to understand both the person who commits suicide and the people they leave behind. In fact, the focus on one side at the expense of the other is what is truly selfish here.

    It's not a heresy. What I have a problem with is someone blithely on about emotionally blackmailing someone who's already in a serious state, just so other people don't feel bad, with no consideration of the depressed person. It's not helpful, in fact I'd say it's the opposite. A lot of depressed people already feel like a burden on their friends and family. Tell them they're a burden on their family isn't exactly getting them out of it.


  • #105
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    It is a difficult one in a sense, the poor lad should have to deal with this at his age, though I remember when I was in my early 20s being at funerals of mates who took their own lives. I can remember saying to a mate that we should have to be doing this for another few decades.

    The young lad has a right to opinion, but that is all it is. Fcuk I would hate to think about some of the opinions I held at that age, I certainly didn't have much of an understanding to life. However, the people who are giving him a stage are the ones I see as wrong. If this young lad only has a few months to live his opinion will be strongly coloured by that. He would be better off looking at his only situation and making the best of that. I would wonder if this is a defense in relation to his own situation.

    However, as other have noted it shows a very poor understanding of people who are suicidal, it is a very dark people when reason or thing like "tough love" hold no sway.

    I would like to see what he has to say and if it is the same as the way the artical presents it, however, I would rather have seen a sitaution where he was not given any media attention for this and was encouraged to focus on getting the most out of his time left here.


  • #106
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    This young lad should stick his views up on youtube and leave it at that.
    I'd say there will be a few depressed and suicidal folks under severe monetary pressure that will be wondering why they scraped together the cash for the TV licence, upon viewing this.


    Up next on the Saturday night show............ a priest urging us to practice celibacy.


  • #107
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    pone2012 wrote: »
    Psychology's a part of my course in university so here's my 2 cents

    Im a firm believer that people who want to get help will get help and make an effort, those who dont wont. A big factor here is a persons approach to life be it optimistic or pessimistic.

    And to the person who says suicide isnt selfish let me ask you something.

    Imagine how it feels to be a mother/father/sibling/partner looking over one of your familys coffins thinking what you could have done/what went wrong,where someone so central to your life is ripped away in a flash never to return.

    Dont say it isnt selfish to leave others behind like that.

    What part of your course taught you that?


  • #108
    jigglypuffstuff
    Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭jigglypuffstuff


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Time to rethink your choice of course perhaps

    Doubtful got all 2.1 in my psych modules last year and looking similar this year too.
    looking_around wrote: »
    And is it not selfish to ask someone who is in pain, everyday, to keep living?
    Apart from that, not everyone has people who will really care either way.

    And I agree, people have to want help to get better. But it doesn't mean cured. And it comes to how much SHOULD you put up with in life? What makes it worth it? because someone else thinks you're wrong?

    Remember "mental" illness are not just cause by trauma, but by chemical imbalances that mess the brain.
    In those cases, where it's completely physical, can you truly say that person chooses? And that, their choices were selfish and NOT caused by the illness?

    To be honest there is nothing that can make things that bad that you need to resort to such drastic action. There are people out there who are paralysed from the neck down that live on as optimistic as possible, work hard everyday to try and even move a finger or to or something, and yet they would kill to have an able body to enjoy the simpler things in life, I understand mental health..people in my family suffer greatly from it, its the reason im headed to do a MA in psych one i graduate..Im not saying its as easy as 1,2 your cured. but i have no sympathy for people who refuse to get help. thats like complaining about being hungry with a fridge full of food
    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    Youre probably going to fail the psychology part of your course.

    see above...


  • #109
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,069 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    People are odd all the same. The internet lights up with outpourings of grief and people emotionally gushing when a story emerges about a bullied kid taking their own life. People get angry at the circumstances, they proclaim to want to put an end to such tragedies and wish somebody had done something to stop it. They talk about the cause far more than the outcome.

    Yet, a 16 yo kid comes out and shares his thoughts on things as he sees them, and he's met with anger and disdain for doing so. People say that his views do more harm than good, and that suicidal people won't have their minds changed by it. Well, will they have their minds changed if others appear to accept that suicide is an understandable or even an inevitable option for them?


  • #110
    Kallie Crashing Bongo
    Posts: 0 ✭ Kallie Crashing Bongo


    Jernal wrote: »
    I don't agree. This whole "if it helps one person . . ." line of reasoning only works if you conveniently forget about potential negative costs. Suppose for instance that it does help one person, but compounds the stigma and lack of understanding in this country. It's still an achievement of sorts but not exactly something that could be considered a positive achievement.

    Personally, I think comparing conditions of people's misfortunes or grievances is never a good thing to do. I'd wager that many depressives know all too well that life could be worse and that's part of the problem. It's this "knowing" that they shouldn't be complaining that can often be so toxic. "Why am I sad? I got nothing I deserve to be sad about?"

    Exactly. There was this awful girl at my old workplace who used to give out about anyone who said they felt down/depressed/sad, because she thought she had it much worse because she'd lost her mother at a young age. As if that automatically entitled her to complain and nobody else was ever allowed to. She really did see it as a competition.

    It's awful that this boy is dying at such a young age. But perhaps he's been brought up in a loving, positive environment with people who support him, perhaps he's at least been lucky enough not to suffer from clinical depression and be able to enjoy his short life. People like him are just devoid of empathy because they can't comprehend that not everyone else is exactly like them. They can't comprehend that for some people, life is so bad that they actually would rather be dead. Nothing annoys me more than people who have been fortunate enough not to have experienced mental health issues criticising and attacking those who have. As if someone with severe depression is going to think, 'oh well even though I feel nothing, have no connection with others, have no sex drive, no desire to do anything, feel like I'm living under a dark cloud...I should just realise how lucky I am because this chap is dying of cancer.'

    So ignorant. Anyone suffering from depression will have heard the 'what have you got to be depressed about?' line countless times. All it does it make you feel ten times worse.


  • #111
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    pone2012 wrote: »
    I understand mental health..

    No. You don't.


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  • #112
    starlings
    Closed Accounts Posts: 683 ✭✭✭starlings


    bluewolf wrote: »
    It's not a heresy. What I have a problem with is someone blithely on about emotionally blackmailing someone who's already in a serious state, just so other people don't feel bad, with no consideration of the depressed person. It's not helpful, in fact I'd say it's the opposite. A lot of depressed people already feel like a burden on their friends and family. Tell them they're a burden on their family isn't exactly getting them out of it.

    It might help the family and friends deal with it better - and be a better help to the depressed person -if it is acknowledged that it is a burden for them. Don't need to go saying it to the face of the person suffering, but it doesn't help to pretend everything's grand.


  • #113
    Annalee Helpful Sheepskin
    Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Annalee Helpful Sheepskin


    starlings wrote: »
    It might help the family and friends deal with it better - and be a better help to the depressed person -if it is acknowledged that it is a burden for them. Don't need to go saying it to the face of the person suffering, but it doesn't help to pretend everything's grand.

    Who is pretending anything is grand? That would make it worse.


  • #114
    Kallie Crashing Bongo
    Posts: 0 ✭ Kallie Crashing Bongo


    pone2012 wrote: »
    Doubtful got all 2.1 in my psych modules last year and looking similar this year too.



    To be honest there is nothing that can make things that bad that you need to resort to such drastic action. There are people out there who are paralysed from the neck down that live on as optimistic as possible, work hard everyday to try and even move a finger or to or something, and yet they would kill to have an able body to enjoy the simpler things in life, I understand mental health..people in my family suffer greatly from it, its the reason im headed to do a MA in psych one i graduate..Im not saying its as easy as 1,2 your cured. but i have no sympathy for people who refuse to get help. thats like complaining about being hungry with a fridge full of food



    see above...

    You are shockingly ignorant about mental health and I find it really worrying that you're actually studying psychology. Perhaps some people with clinical depression would kill to be the paralysed person in the wheelchair if only it meant they could find some joy in life. A paralysed mind is not always much better than a paralysed body. If you know so much about mental health, then how come you don't understand that some people are so sick that they don't have the ability to get help?


  • #115
    jigglypuffstuff
    Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭jigglypuffstuff


    lertsnim wrote: »
    Wow. Absolute rubbish

    see below
    bluewolf wrote: »
    Imagine how it feels to be so depressed you fcuking kill yourself in the first place. Where something so central to your life - self preservation - is ripped away.
    Christ.
    Sitting around going "well the family is upset" without a word of why someone would do that in the first place?
    Study your course a bit harder.

    I never said this was an easy thing to deal with. and familys often dont care or recognize. but someone needs to want help to be helped. So you can tell me its perfectly acceptable to hang yourself or OD because your mental health isnt the best, perhaps you suffer from clinical depression
    opinion guy wrote: »
    No. You don't.

    With 2 nervous breakdowns in my family, 3 sufferers from OCD , 1 from anxiety and also a sufferer of paranoid schizophrenic I think ive got better grips than you...unless of course you could say you've had similar??..and lets not forget the ex that sufferend from bulimia and anxiety disorder too


  • #116
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    pone2012 wrote: »

    With 2 nervous breakdowns in my family, 3 sufferers from OCD , 1 from anxiety and also a sufferer of paranoid schizophrenic I think ive got better grips than you...unless of course you could say you've had similar??..and lets not forget the ex that sufferend from bulimia and anxiety disorder too

    Personal experience of a situation doesn't equate to understanding.


  • #117
    Annalee Helpful Sheepskin
    Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Annalee Helpful Sheepskin


    pone2012 wrote: »
    see below



    I never said this was an easy thing to deal with. and familys often dont care or recognize. but someone needs to want help to be helped. So you can tell me its perfectly acceptable to hang yourself or OD because your mental health isnt the best, perhaps you suffer from clinical depression

    Your psych course is teaching you bad reading comprehension and medical diagnoses is it?

    Out of here...


  • #118
    jigglypuffstuff
    Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭jigglypuffstuff


    Odysseus wrote: »
    What part of your course taught you that?

    none in particular that was my opinion


  • #119
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,063 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    pone2012 wrote: »
    Doubtful got all 2.1 in my psych modules last year and looking similar this year too.



    To be honest there is nothing that can make things that bad that you need to resort to such drastic action. There are people out there who are paralysed from the neck down that live on as optimistic as possible, work hard everyday to try and even move a finger or to or something, and yet they would kill to have an able body to enjoy the simpler things in life, I understand mental health..people in my family suffer greatly from it, its the reason im headed to do a MA in psych one i graduate..Im not saying its as easy as 1,2 your cured. but i have no sympathy for people who refuse to get help. thats like complaining about being hungry with a fridge full of food



    see above...


    Regardless of whatever exam scores you achieve your attitude is shocking. I would certainly never turn to you for help with any type of mental issue.

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



  • #120
    jigglypuffstuff
    Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭jigglypuffstuff


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Your psych course is teaching you bad reading comprehension and medical diagnoses is it?

    Out of here...

    I didnt write that correctly, I'm currently doing a social science assignment as we speak so i am between screens.

    What i meant was do you think it would be acceptable for someone to commit suicide because THEY suffer from C.D or poor mental health


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  • #121
    shopaholic01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,916 ✭✭✭shopaholic01


    I feel sorry for the guy, it's a lot to deal with at 16. I found the article portrayed him as being smug, it will be interesting to see how he is tonight without editting.

    He clearly doesn't have an understanding of depression or empathy for those who suffer from it.

    The show, it's presenter and the other featured guest are probably the worst choice for this type of discussion. Unfortunately it will also be biased. They really need to get the opinion of people who have been close to or survived suicide attempts, and the families of those who have committed suicide - it is not enough to get the opinion of a terminally ill 16 year old when you are labelling suicide as selfish and avoidable.

    As others have said, shame on RTE. It looks like an attempt to boost rating by pulling on heart strings.


  • #122
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    pone2012 wrote: »
    Doubtful got all 2.1 in my psych modules last year and looking similar this year too.



    To be honest there is nothing that can make things that bad that you need to resort to such drastic action. There are people out there who are paralysed from the neck down that live on as optimistic as possible, work hard everyday to try and even move a finger or to or something, and yet they would kill to have an able body to enjoy the simpler things in life, I understand mental health..people in my family suffer greatly from it, its the reason im headed to do a MA in psych one i graduate..Im not saying its as easy as 1,2 your cured. but i have no sympathy for people who refuse to get help. thats like complaining about being hungry with a fridge full of food



    see above...


    Have you any clinical experience? I would like to see you spend some clinical time with people who are that low, also with their familes and friends are their gone and see if you hold that opinion still. I tell you it will either change or you will not be allowed near people.

    It sounds to me that you have very little experience in what you are talking about, don't think that doing a few modules will at undergard level is going to give you a solid understanding of clinical work and the people you will work with.

    Then you will also learn about what it is like when you loose clients, and how it effects the whole clinic the person was attending.

    To say that there is nothing that can make thing so bad that you resort to such drastic action; shows a very poor insight into the suffereing people experience and that we seek to work with in clinical work.


  • #123
    wayhey
    Registered Users Posts: 527 ✭✭✭wayhey


    pone2012 wrote: »
    I never said this was an easy thing to deal with. and familys often dont care or recognize. but someone needs to want help to be helped. So you can tell me its perfectly acceptable to hang yourself or OD because your mental health isnt the best, perhaps you suffer from clinical depression

    Wow. Are you doing psychology as an Arts degree? Have you really covered any kind of psychiatric pathology?

    I'd also like to point out to people that Psychology is the study of human behaviour focusing on the individual, not any kind of disease processes (Psychiatry).

    Playing the "I have a degree so I understand" card is also ridiculous. I hope I can empathise with those that have mental illness and have sympathy for their difficulty, but I could never dismiss them like you could. People have a right to refuse medical treatment, of course, but even basic medical training examines consent and the capacity to consent to essential medical treatment.

    For someone who studies the mind and allegedly does well, you have a frightening opinion of mental health in a clinical setting. Someone has to want help? Even the law recognises that people may not always be seek help themselves. This is why people in deep psychosis/depressive episodes that are a danger to themselves can be taken to hospital to get the care that they need.

    You're a long way from being an understanding clinical psychologist.


  • #124
    lertsnim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,803 ✭✭✭lertsnim


    pone2012 wrote: »
    I understand mental health

    God help anybody that receives 'help' from you in future years.


  • #125
    Corkfeen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    pone2012 wrote: »
    see below



    I never said this was an easy thing to deal with. and familys often dont care or recognize. but someone needs to want help to be helped. So you can tell me its perfectly acceptable to hang yourself or OD because your mental health isnt the best, perhaps you suffer from clinical depression



    With 2 nervous breakdowns in my family, 3 sufferers from OCD , 1 from anxiety and also a sufferer of paranoid schizophrenic I think ive got better grips than you...unless of course you could say you've had similar??..and lets not forget the ex that sufferend from bulimia and anxiety disorder too
    So you have experience with mental illness but are awfully ignorant of it at the very same time. I've got first hand experience, I contemplated suicide during my teens and was on the verge of going ahead with it. I still suffer from depression and I can somewhat understand my state of mind at the time.

    I didn't ask for help because I didn't believe that there was anything that could help me in my situation. Ending my life appeared to be my only option. Looking back at myself back then, if I had gone ahead .I can't judge the character of myself because I was not in a clear state of mind and everything seemed hopeless. Those who commit suicide are not selfish, they are in immense pain and we should have attempt to have empathy for those who suffer from depression in silence.
    pone2012 wrote: »
    none in particular that was my opinion

    I'm rather grateful that your course doesn't teach such rubbish. Why not state what you've stated to us to one of your lecturers. You believe you understand depression and would surely love for the academic community to hear your expertise or lack of.


  • #126
    jigglypuffstuff
    Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭jigglypuffstuff


    opinion guy wrote: »
    No. You don't.

    Care to elaborate?
    Kallie Crashing Bongo wrote: »
    You are shockingly ignorant about mental health and I find it really worrying that you're actually studying psychology. Perhaps some people with clinical depression would kill to be the paralysed person in the wheelchair if only it meant they could find some joy in life. A paralysed mind is not always much better than a paralysed body. If you know so much about mental health, then how come you don't understand that some people are so sick that they don't have the ability to get help?

    Perhaps they might, but then did you again consider that the grass is always greener on the other side? that things always seem better in someone elses shoes until you are there?

    There is more to psychology that simply mental health you know, what about social psychology?? or research i never said that i wanted to become a clincal psychologist. Ive seen enough of that in my family thanks.

    Are you ignorant to the fact that there is far more to psychology than treating mentally ill people??
    eviltwin wrote: »
    Personal experience of a situation doesn't equate to understanding.

    Not always., but it gives plenty of insight
    Ten of Swords wrote: »
    Regardless of whatever exam scores you achieve your attitude is shocking. I would certainly never turn to you for help with any type of mental issue.

    see above
    Odysseus wrote: »
    Have you any clinical experience? I would like to see you spend some clinical thing with people who are that low, also with their familes and friends are their gone and see if you hold that opinion. I tell you it will either change or you will not be allowed near people.

    It sound to me that you have very little experience in what you are talking about, don't think that doing a few modules will at undergard level is going to give you a solid understanding of clinical work and the people you will work with.

    Then you will also learn about what it is like when you loose clients, and how it effects the whole clinic the person was attending.

    To say that there is nothing that can make thing so bad that you resort to such drastic action; show a very poor insight into the suffereing people experience and that we seek to work with in clinical work.

    You are correct i have no experience, nor do i seek it in a clinical setting as it isnt the field in which i hope to work in. I hope to do research at a university hopefully

    Thats my opinion on the subject, opinion and facts are two different things.


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  • #127
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    pone2012 wrote: »
    With 2 nervous breakdowns in my family, 3 sufferers from OCD , 1 from anxiety and also a sufferer of paranoid schizophrenic I think ive got better grips than you...unless of course you could say you've had similar??..and lets not forget the ex that sufferend from bulimia and anxiety disorder too

    Oh I see. So you have been a family member heavily affected by these problems.
    Tell me, does that make you angry ?


  • #128
    FLCL
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭FLCL


    pone2012 wrote: »
    Doubtful got all 2.1 in my psych modules last year and looking similar this year too.



    To be honest there is nothing that can make things that bad that you need to resort to such drastic action. There are people out there who are paralysed from the neck down that live on as optimistic as possible, work hard everyday to try and even move a finger or to or something, and yet they would kill to have an able body to enjoy the simpler things in life, I understand mental health..people in my family suffer greatly from it, its the reason im headed to do a MA in psych one i graduate..Im not saying its as easy as 1,2 your cured. but i have no sympathy for people who refuse to get help. thats like complaining about being hungry with a fridge full of food



    see above...

    Feckin hell, it terrifies me that people like you are entering the mental health profession (that is if you aren't trolling us). Your lack of understanding of the condition is actually mind-boggling, and hopefully one day when you pass your college modules and enter a clinical setting, + get first hand experience treating people with the condition you'll realize that you were wrong.

    My dad suffers from manic depression, when he's at his lows (which can last a couple of months) he is confined to his bed for weeks on end, can hardly even move, staring blankly at the ceiling. If I didn't spoon mushy weetabix into his mouth, he would probably die of starvation during these low periods. This is someone who is supposedly being "treated" for the last few years by mental health services in Ireland, GPs, psychiatrists, medication, etc.

    Imagine during one of these low periods, I said to him "I have no sympathy for you because you are refusing to get help", and comparing his condition to someone hungry with a fridge full of food? For the sake of the future of society and humanity, please reconsider if this profession is actually right for you.


  • #129
    jigglypuffstuff
    Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭jigglypuffstuff


    Corkfeen wrote: »
    I didn't ask for help because I didn't believe that there was anything that could help me in my situation. Ending my life appeared to be my only option.

    So you expect me to believe that a person is ignorant to the fact that there is help available for sufferers of mental health?? Seriously i hope you are joking...


  • #130
    Toshi101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 151 ✭✭Toshi101


    As someone who has suffered depression quite badly i dont agree with with the approach he's taking at all. BUT if he does get through to a few people then its a definite plus


  • #131
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    pone2012 wrote: »
    Psychology's a part of my course in university so here's my 2 cents

    Im a firm believer that people who want to get help will get help and make an effort, those who dont wont. A big factor here is a persons approach to life be it optimistic or pessimistic.

    And to the person who says suicide isnt selfish let me ask you something.

    Imagine how it feels to be a mother/father/sibling/partner looking over one of your familys coffins thinking what you could have done/what went wrong,where someone so central to your life is ripped away in a flash never to return.

    Dont say it isnt selfish to leave others behind like that.

    Depression is the common cold of mental health. Suicidal tendencies on the other hand are a damn good analogy to cancer or something similar.

    Imagine, one day you're going for a swim. The most significant health problem you've ever experienced before now was a really bad case of pneumonia. As far as your life goes you're not that stressed. You're in the swimming pool, enjoying yourself, relaxing. Then something really surreal and strange happens. You want to drown yourself. You don't know why, but you just do. So, you try, what will be henceforth known as your first attempt. It ends in complete failure; your body's instinct won't let you. You try again, this time harder and with more concentration and intent. But your body won't relent it always surfaces for air no matter how hard you try. You try again and again and again and again and again. Until it becomes clear that it's an obvious exercise in futility. At this point you're so distressed that your paranoia that onlookers may take notice takes over. So you regroup and start internally planning how and when your next attempt will take place.

    I could go on here, but I think that briefly illustrates an extreme suicidal tendency. To suggest this person by taking their own life is being selfish or inconsiderate completely misunderstands their pain and torment.


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  • #132
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    pone2012 wrote: »
    So you expect me to believe that a person is ignorant to the fact that there is help available for sufferers of mental health?? Seriously i hope you are joking...

    People know help is out there, its actually finding the courage to get that help that is the hard part.


  • #133
    looking_around
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭looking_around


    pone2012 wrote: »
    So you expect me to believe that a person is ignorant to the fact that there is help available for sufferers of mental health?? Seriously i hope you are joking...

    actually yes, many are.
    Apart from that, mental illness treatments here, could do with ALOT of adjustments.

    I have been both 'hurt' & helped by 'supports' here.

    Unfortunately there isn't as much help as one would expect. Especially if you are in the midst of a real struggle, like being unable to leave the home/eat and so on.


  • #134
    jigglypuffstuff
    Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭jigglypuffstuff


    opinion guy wrote: »
    Oh I see. So you have been a family member heavily affected by these problems.
    Tell me, does that make you angry ?

    Theres been more than one actually. And no, not in the slightest, Everyone has problems...
    FLCL wrote: »
    Feckin hell, it terrifies me that people like you are entering the mental health profession (that is if you aren't trolling us). Your

    Please read above
    Jernal wrote: »
    Depression is the common cold of mental health.

    Agreed, but there are different types of depression which are not all so common


  • #135
    Corkfeen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    pone2012 wrote: »
    So you expect me to believe that a person is ignorant to the fact that there is help available for sufferers of mental health?? Seriously i hope you are joking...

    You have no awareness of the problems that I faced or my state of mind. There is help available but many are simply staring into an abyss. They don't believe that the help that is available is of any use them. They don't see a future for themselves where they have any sense of happiness. This isn't ignorance, it's immense pain and suffering that can blind a person.


  • #136
    will.i.am
    Site Banned Posts: 192 ✭✭will.i.am


    FLCL wrote: »
    Feckin hell, it terrifies me that people like you are entering the mental health profession (that is if you aren't trolling us). Your lack of understanding of the condition is actually mind-boggling, and hopefully one day when you pass your college modules and enter a clinical setting, + get first hand experience treating people with the condition you'll realize that you were wrong.
    Don't worry the poster pone2012 isn't really entering the mental health system he is only studying Early years & childhood in UCC. This is basically a degree in baby sitting/childminding.


  • #137
    jigglypuffstuff
    Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭jigglypuffstuff


    looking_around wrote: »
    actually yes, many are.
    Apart from that, mental illness treatments here, could do with ALOT of adjustments.

    100% agreed
    Corkfeen wrote: »
    You have no awareness of the problems that I faced or my state of mind. There is help available but many are simply staring into an abyss. They don't believe that the help that is available is of any use them. They don't see a future for themselves where they have any sense of happiness. This isn't ignorance, it's immense pain and suffering that can blind a person.

    So then you knew that the help was available?? you just didnt think it was worth you while?


  • #138
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    pone2012 wrote: »
    Theres been more than one actually. And no, not in the slightest, Everyone has problems...

    Well you don't think your experiences may have coloured your viewpoint on these issues then ? I mean you've only seen one side of it - as a family member. You haven't experienced what your family members went through - have you ? Or random people with depression.

    Perhaps you would see it differently from the other side of the coin.


  • #139
    rox5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 272 ✭✭rox5


    FLCL wrote: »
    Saw this article on independent.ie earlier and was frankly a little disturbed, http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/terminally-ill-16yearold-takes-his-antisuicide-campaign-to-rte-29176645.html (Not sure if linking is allowed mod?)

    To summarize, this guy is terminally ill and feels "anger" towards young people who commit suicide or are considering it. As someone with a family member suffering depression, I find this kind of message he's giving out quite unhelpful (despite his good intentions) and demonstrates a complete lack of understanding (by HSE and RTE for allowing this to go out tomorrow) of the complexity of mental illness, depression and suicide.

    It reminds me of the "ahh sure cop on to yourself, there's always someone worse off" treatment. If you present yourself to a doctor/counselor/psychologist with depression they will not start off by telling you how there's starving children in Bolivia so get over your depression, and I am highly skeptical as to the benefits of a terminally ill boy's opinions and criticisms of an illness - the treatment of which he likely knows nothing about, on national TV will do.

    Lines like this particularly grind my gears: "I feel angry that these people choose to take their lives, to ruin their families and to leave behind a mess that no one can clean up," he added.

    Any thoughts / opinions?

    I can understand him being angry that is life will be taken away when he does not want to die, but I can understand other people being angry at him over his views MORE.

    I mean it's not as if depression is just an excuse or just a common cold. It is a mental illness, a very bad one, and one of the reasons the suicide rate is so high here is that people are too afraid to speak up because of ignorance like this.
    I am pretty sure that I had depression when I was a teenager (still think I have it now), I have cut myself when I was younger and instead of being offered help and recieving empathy (think thats the right phrase for it) from relatives when they realised something was up with me, instead I was screamed at, made to feel worse about myself, and being told "Everyone has problems, not just you!!"
    None of them wanted to know about it, and I ended up bottling up everything. I am in my 20s now, and even now I am scared to make my own appointment with my doctor because believe it or not, I keep thinking that even he will judge me, even though he is not supposed to, since i have visited him a lot over the years so he knows me well.

    I am really getting sick of the ignorance we have in this country.


  • #140
    jigglypuffstuff
    Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭jigglypuffstuff


    will.i.am wrote: »
    Don't worry the poster pone2012 isn't really entering the mental health system he is only studying Early years & childhood in UCC. This is basically a degree in baby sitting/childminding.

    And you think my course is baby-sitting? basically took the course as a backdoor into psychology, still have more experience in it than you i presume, not to mention the extra reading i do as i enjoy the subject

    I shudder to imagine what profession you will enter which such a childish opinion


  • #141
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    pone2012 wrote: »

    So then you knew that the help was available?? you just didnt think it was worth you while?


    You do realise you are talking about a MENTAL ILLNESS here? People with mental illness issues are not rational.

    I had severe depression a few years ago culminating in a suicide attempt. I knew help was out ther but I didn't get any until I was basically forced into it by my family. I was paranoid, I had convinced myself I lose my kids and my job. It sounds silly now but at the time I totally believed that would happen and I was afraid to get help for that reason.

    I can look back and see that my fears were caused by the illness, at the time though I had no understanding of that. I felt I was doing okay and was holding it all together when in actual fact I was a complete mess.

    Your comments have moved beyond ignorant to being insulting now.


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  • #142
    jigglypuffstuff
    Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭jigglypuffstuff


    opinion guy wrote: »
    Well you don't think your experiences may have coloured your viewpoint on these issues then ? I mean you've only seen one side of it - as a family member. You haven't experienced what your family members went through - have you ? Or random people with depression.

    Perhaps you would see it differently from the other side of the coin.

    sufferer of OCD . have managed to turn it from a serious problem to very little in over a year, with no help whatsoever.


  • #143
    will.i.am
    Site Banned Posts: 192 ✭✭will.i.am


    pone2012 wrote: »
    And you think my course is baby-sitting? basically took the course as a backdoor into psychology, still have more experience in it than you i presume, not to mention the extra reading i do as i enjoy the subject

    I shudder to imagine what profession you will enter which such a childish opinion

    Clearly you didn't obtain enough points to be left into psychology in the first place. Second of all I will enter a profession that I enjoy!
    PS Learn to use full-stops.


  • #144
    jigglypuffstuff
    Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭jigglypuffstuff


    eviltwin wrote: »
    You do realise you are talking about a MENTAL ILLNESS here? People with mental illness issues are not rational.

    I had severe depression a few years ago culminating in a suicide attempt. I knew help was out ther but I didn't get any until I was basically forced into it by my family. I was paranoid, I had convinced myself I lose my kids and my job. It sounds silly now but at the time I totally believed that would happen and I was afraid to get help for that reason.

    I can look back and see that my fears were caused by the illness, at the time though I had no understanding of that. I felt I was doing okay and was holding it all together when in actual fact I was a complete mess.

    Your comments have moved beyond ignorant to being insulting now.

    The comment you quoted was a genuine question, not an insult by any means, apoligies if you took it to heart


  • #145
    Corkfeen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    pone2012 wrote: »
    So then you knew that the help was available?? you just didnt think it was worth you while?

    I wasn't oblivious to it and this only my experience, I was also very young which didn't help. You seem to assume that a person is in the correct state of mind to seek help and it's out sheer selfishness that they're not doing so. It's really worrying that you can't even empathise in the slightest with people who are suicidal. It is awful for the families but it is equally awful for the person who thinks the only option is suicide.


  • #146
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    pone2012 wrote: »
    sufferer of OCD . have managed to turn it from a serious problem to very little in over a year, with no help whatsoever.

    Well has your OCD ever made you suicidal ?

    And what this ? Boasting about no help whatsoever. Whilst in other posts your are giving out to people for not seeking help ?


  • #147
    jigglypuffstuff
    Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭jigglypuffstuff


    will.i.am wrote: »
    Clearly you didn't obtain enough points to be left into psychology in the first place. Second of all I will enter a profession that I enjoy!
    PS Learn to use full-stops.

    I fell short by a few correct.

    I hope whatever profession it is that it does not require your opinion of any sort, especially such an ignorant one!


  • #148
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    pone2012 wrote: »
    Care to elaborate?





    You are correct i have no experience, nor do i seek it in a clinical setting as it isnt the field in which i hope to work in. I hope to do research at a university hopefully

    Thats my opinion on the subject, opinion and facts are two different things.

    See everyone has opinions, you came on here stating you study psychology impling that you have an insight into mental health issues because of it.

    I know that its only an opinion as opposed to even a professional opinion, because they do not teach clinical psychopathology at undergrad level.

    In you OP you tryed to "psych" your personal opinion based upon you study psychology.

    The good thing this thread has shown is that opinions on mental health are changing and that people are going to listen to outdated opinions.


  • #149
    jigglypuffstuff
    Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭jigglypuffstuff


    Corkfeen wrote: »
    I wasn't oblivious to it and this only my experience, I was also very young which didn't help. You seem to assume that a person is in the correct state of mind to seek help and it's out sheer selfishness that they're not doing so. It's really worrying that you can't even empathise in the slightest with people who are suicidal. It is awful for the families but it is equally awful for the person who thinks the only option is suicide.

    I never said it was out of sheer selfishness, everyone has different circumstances. i was just curious as to your previous comment.
    opinion guy wrote: »
    Well has your OCD ever made you suicidal ?

    And what this ? Boasting about no help whatsoever. Whilst in other posts your are giving out to people for not seeking help ?

    Indeed not.

    No im in no manner boasting im simply stating, that mental health disorders can be overcome with or without help, depending on severity. having it is hard enough to state.


  • #150
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,063 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    pone2012 wrote: »
    sufferer of OCD . have managed to turn it from a serious problem to very little in over a year, with no help whatsoever.
    Good for you managing on your own with no help, I hope you continue to do so, but you must realise that there are many situations where people simply cannot self-help but also find equally impossible to ask for help for fear of stigma, rejection, escalation of a bad situation or receiving inadequate or ineffective help.

    It takes strength to ask for help yet you seem to automatically assume that you simply must, as a rule, seek outside help where self-help will not work, it does not work like that.

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



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  • #151
    jigglypuffstuff
    Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭jigglypuffstuff


    Odysseus wrote: »
    See everyone has opinions, you came on here stating you study psychology impling that you have an insight into mental health issues because of it.

    I know that its only an opinion as opposed to even a professional opinion, because they do not teach clinical psychopathology at undergrad level.

    In you OP you tryed to "psych" your personal opinion based upon you study psychology.

    The good thing this thread has shown is that opinions on mental health are changing and that people are going to listen to outdated opinions.

    To be 100% honest it does come across this way perhaps I should have defined the line between my opinion and facts

    Yes i do study psychology its a big part of my course, my interest lies however in social psychology. perhaps i should have omitted that from the post


This discussion has been closed.
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