Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread II

Podge_irl · 17-01-2013 1:32am

There are a number of IRFU central contracts (it was about 30, its down to about 22). I don't believe there are any hard and fast rules as to how many per position etc. Its more up to the IRFU to decide which players are integral to the national team. Their wages are taken off the branch's books and are generally the highest amongst Irish players. The downside is that the branch's have no input in the contract negotiations (Sexton now works for the IRFU directly as opposed to LR) and are not allowed "top up" any IRFU deal. If Joe and Mick Dawson wanted to spend all their money on keeping Sexton they wouldn't be allowed.

Non-central contracts are dealt with solely by the branches. From what I can gather, players on provincial contracts need to be paid more for Irish tours etc. (appearance fees and what not) though I am unsure on that one.

P_1 · 17-01-2013 1:34am

Podge_irl wrote: »

There are a number of IRFU central contracts (it was about 30, its down to about 22). I don't believe there are any hard and fast rules as to how many per position etc. Its more up to the IRFU to decide which players are integral to the national team. Their wages are taken off the branch's books and are generally the highest amongst Irish players. The downside is that the branch's have no input in the contract negotiations (Sexton now works for the IRFU directly as opposed to LR) and are not allowed "top up" any IRFU deal. If Joe and Mick Dawson wanted to spend all their money on keeping Sexton they wouldn't be allowed.

Non-central contracts are dealt with solely by the branches. From what I can gather, players on provincial contracts need to be paid more for Irish tours etc. (appearance fees and what not) though I am unsure on that one.

Could Joe and Mick not come in with a higher (completley seperate to the IRFU) offer than what the IRFU are giving if Racing are significantly outbidding them?

awec · 17-01-2013 1:35am

Podge_irl wrote: »

There are a number of IRFU central contracts (it was about 30, its down to about 22). I don't believe there are any hard and fast rules as to how many per position etc. Its more up to the IRFU to decide which players are integral to the national team. Their wages are taken off the branch's books and are generally the highest amongst Irish players. The downside is that the branch's have no input in the contract negotiations (Sexton now works for the IRFU directly as opposed to LR) and are not allowed "top up" any IRFU deal. If Joe and Mick Dawson wanted to spend all their money on keeping Sexton they wouldn't be allowed.

Non-central contracts are dealt with solely by the branches. From what I can gather, players on provincial contracts need to be paid more for Irish tours etc. (appearance fees and what not) though I am unsure on that one.

When you say the wages are taken off the branches books, does that mean that Sexton doesn't actually cost Leinster any money or that the money for Sexton is taken off Leinster by the IRFU?

What's the reasoning behind these central contracts? IRFU more control over keeping their important players in Ireland?

jm08 · 17-01-2013 1:37am

Podge_irl wrote: »

I think a lot of people are on a higher wage. From the murmurings going around Sexton isn't on that much at the moment (no doubt partly thanks to his "battle" with ROG) so that explains his maneuverings even more.

I seem to remember a package of 1.2m per annum between Heaslip, BOD & Sexton being mentioned at the time. While Heaslip signed a 3 year contract, Sexton only signed a 2 year one.

Heaslip has moved to BOD's new agency. Sexton still seems to be with Fintan Drury who seems to like using the newspapers to try and work up a contract.

In fairness, Drury (for Sexton & Luke Fitz) seems to be the only one who uses this tactic nowadays. We hear nothing about the rest of them until the deal is done. (Like Toulouse's interest in Zebo didn't get out until he had re-signed with Munster. Tony Buckley is probably the only player in recent times who walked away from an IRFU central contract (when the IRFU reduced the offer).

jm08 · 17-01-2013 1:39am

awec wrote: »

When you say the wages are taken off the branches books, does that mean that Sexton doesn't actually cost Leinster any money or that the money for Sexton is taken off Leinster by the IRFU?

What's the reasoning behind these central contracts? IRFU more control over keeping their important players in Ireland?

Jerry Flannery said on his podcast recently that a player on a central contract was like the provinces having an extra player for free and freed up cash in the provinces for the rest of the squad.

awec · 17-01-2013 1:49am

jm08 wrote: »

Jerry Flannery said on his podcast recently that a player on a central contract was like the provinces having an extra player for free and freed up cash in the provinces for the rest of the squad.

The downside being the player welfare scheme...

I get it, thanks

jm08 · 17-01-2013 1:57am

awec wrote: »

The downside being the player welfare scheme...

I get it, thanks

I think its sort of fair though - the provinces would never be able to hold onto most their centrally contracted players. For example the 3 players mentioned above (Sexton, BOD & Heaslip) 1.2m per annum would put a fair bit of a hole in Leinster's budget. There would be no Isa Nacewa, Doug Howletts or Brad Thorns playing rugby in Ireland if the provinces had to fund some of their centrally contracted players.

awec · 17-01-2013 2:00am

jm08 wrote: »

I think its sort of fair though - the provinces would never be able to hold onto most their centrally contracted players. For example the 3 players mentioned above (Sexton, BOD & Heaslip) 1.2m per annum would put a fair bit of a hole in Leinster's budget. There would be no Isa Nacewa, Doug Howletts or Brad Thorns playing rugby in Ireland if the provinces had to fund some of their centrally contracted players.

Yea agreed.

What I meant though was in exchange for effectively not paying for Sexton Leinster have to put up with the IRFU deciding how often he can play.

thomond2006 · 17-01-2013 2:12am

I would hope the head coach has a large role in deciding who are "integral to the national team" and therefore get central contracts.

Podge_irl · 17-01-2013 2:13am

awec wrote: »

Yea agreed.

What I meant though was in exchange for effectively not paying for Sexton Leinster have to put up with the IRFU deciding how often he can play.

Pretty sure the IRFU can dictate whatever they want seeing as they "own" Leinster Rugby. But yes, Leinster don't actually pay any money for Sexton. This is a key point in the further disconnect between funding for Connacht against the other provinces. While Connacht receive about 1m less than the other provinces (I think) they also have no players on central contracts. That is worth, I imagine, at least 2m a year to Leinster.

jm08 wrote:

I seem to remember a package of 1.2m per annum between Heaslip, BOD & Sexton being mentioned at the time. While Heaslip signed a 3 year contract, Sexton only signed a 2 year one.

Sexton is on nowhere near what his stature deserves. ROG is on more than him at the moment (I think). It made sense to take a 2 year deal as he was just breaking into the Irish team - his stock would obviously have risen within that time-frame. Heaslip and BOD were already clear first choice Irish players and thus awarded higher contracts.

jm08 · 17-01-2013 2:23am

Podge_irl wrote: »

Sexton is on nowhere near what his stature deserves. ROG is on more than him at the moment (I think). It made sense to take a 2 year deal as he was just breaking into the Irish team - his stock would obviously have risen within that time-frame. Heaslip and BOD were already clear first choice Irish players and thus awarded higher contracts.

Sexton is unlucky he missed the celtic tiger years, but I believe that all the players (including POC & BOD) took paycuts. Apparently the €500K per annum would make Sexton the highest paid player ever (more than BOD, POC or ROG) and you think he deserves more than them?

You think you know what O'Gara is on?

Podge_irl · 17-01-2013 2:27am

jm08 wrote: »

Sexton is unlucky he missed the celtic tiger years, but I believe that all the players (including POC & BOD) took paycuts. Apparently the €500K per annum would make Sexton the highest paid player ever (more than BOD, POC or ROG) and you think he deserves more than them?

Currently, yes. He's the most important player Ireland have.

However, I was commenting on his current contract. I don't know any figures definitively, none of us do, so I can only comment on the general perception and what is discussed through the media. His first central contract didn't exactly break the bank and was not at "top tier international" level. Hence he has far less of a tax incentive to stay than others.

I have reservations about rugby contracts going up to 500k a year as I worry about it being unsustainable - witness what is going on in Wales - but I have no problem with Sexton being the highest paid player in Ireland.

jm08 · 17-01-2013 3:08am

Podge_irl wrote: »

Currently, yes. He's the most important player Ireland have.

However, I was commenting on his current contract. I don't know any figures definitively, none of us do, so I can only comment on the general perception and what is discussed through the media. His first central contract didn't exactly break the bank and was not at "top tier international" level. Hence he has far less of a tax incentive to stay than others.

According to the Herald, Heaslip & Sexton were on close to €400k. Not bad for a fella with 11 international caps at the time.

http://www.herald.ie/sport/rugby/heaslip-and-sexton-remain-loyal-2524717.html

I have reservations about rugby contracts going up to 500k a year as I worry about it being unsustainable - witness what is going on in Wales - but I have no problem with Sexton being the highest paid player in Ireland.

I would too. The IRFU has limited resources - the more Sexton gets, the less there is for everyone else.

I'd have Ross & Healy as being more important. Nothing Sexton could do when Ross went down against England last 6Ns. Ireland does have a couple of outhalfs they can turn to.

[Jackass] · 17-01-2013 3:35am

I agree that we have more depth for the 10 jersey than we do for the 1 or 3 jerseys and the fall off in quality might be greater, but IMO Sexton is the best 10 this side of the equator, and will surely be without challenge for the Lions 10 jersey and I don't think there's a French 10 better than him either.

In terms of world wide quality, there aren't many better than him, and for the continued success of the domestic game as well as control over his well-being, I think he would be worth every penny of whatever contract he gets.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 17-01-2013 3:55am

awec wrote: »

Yea, but is there say a limit of 2 central contracts for out-halves? So Sexton has one and O'Gara the other?

Nope its on an adhoc basis

AFAIK the central contract list is
Healy, Court, Best, Ross, Ryan, DOC, POC, Ferris, Heaslip, Murray Redden Sexton ROG Darcy BOD Earls Trimble Bowe Kearney

P_1 wrote: »

Could Joe and Mick not come in with a higher (completley seperate to the IRFU) offer than what the IRFU are giving if Racing are significantly outbidding them?

Nope, the provinces are banned 100% from negotiating with players while the IRFU has a central contract offer on the table. For example Buckley.

awec wrote: »

When you say the wages are taken off the branches books, does that mean that Sexton doesn't actually cost Leinster any money or that the money for Sexton is taken off Leinster by the IRFU?

Yep

P.Walnuts · 17-01-2013 4:05am

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Nope its on an adhoc basis

AFAIK the central contract list is
Healy, Court, Best, Ross, Ryan, DOC, POC, Ferris, Heaslip, Murray Redden Sexton ROG Darcy BOD Earls Trimble Bowe Kearney

Nope, the provinces are banned 100% from negotiating with players while the IRFU has a central contract offer on the table. For example Buckley.

Yep

Just to hop on the central contracts topic for a sec, earlier someone said that the downside of central contracts from a club/branch point of view was the player welfare system....I thought anyone who plays for the national team was subject the player welfare scheme, or are the centrally contracted players rested even more?

Is there any other downside to the central contract or would Leinster for instance want as many Irish players on a central contract as possible?

Podge_irl · 17-01-2013 4:08am

I'm pretty sure anyone who plays international rugby is subject to the player welfare scheme. They are all ultimately IRFU employees.

Hagz · 17-01-2013 4:43am

jm08 wrote: »

I'd have Ross & Healy as being more important. Nothing Sexton could do when Ross went down against England last 6Ns. Ireland does have a couple of outhalfs they can turn to.

Not that I give a crap about contracts or any of this behind the scenes business, but Healy and Ross are at this point nowhere near as important. What with the introduction of 23 man squads, what happened last year is now a one-off. Added to that, Loose-head is fast becoming a position of strength for this country.

You say we have a couple of out-halves to turn to? Who? The 36 year old O'Gara who is only good for his boot (and I don't mean in the sense of using it to kick ankles, though it seems good for that too)? 21 year old Paddy Jackson who's uncapped and unproven? Ian Madigan is the next best fly-half and he's a hell of a step down from Sexton. It's pretty clear that Jonathan Sexton is the most important player in Ireland at the moment.

Winters · 17-01-2013 10:58am

Podge_irl wrote: »

I'm pretty sure anyone who plays international rugby is subject to the player welfare scheme. They are all ultimately IRFU employees.

All Irish rugby players operate under a player welfare system. Its just that the players that play extra games for Ireland are rested for select Pro 12 games. Players that aren’t on central contracts wouldn’t really be reaching the match limits.

awec · 17-01-2013 11:10am

So, given that Sexton is contracted to the IRFU, what happens if he or the IRFU decide tomorrow that he'd rather play for Connacht. Can he just up sticks and be moved like that?

Dravokivich · 17-01-2013 11:38am

awec wrote: »

So, given that Sexton is contracted to the IRFU, what happens if he or the IRFU decide tomorrow that he'd rather play for Connacht. Can he just up sticks and be moved like that?

I'd say the team he has to play with would be defined in an article somewhere within it. Doesn't make sense to leave which province open ended.

Winters · 17-01-2013 1:19pm

awec wrote: »

So, given that Sexton is contracted to the IRFU, what happens if he or the IRFU decide tomorrow that he'd rather play for Connacht. Can he just up sticks and be moved like that?

I would say the situation would be no different if you or I were to request a move in to another office in the same company. The two 'offices' would have to agree, their budgets would have to allow it and the 'head office' would have to sanction it. Depends on your value to the company and the offices. The name on your payslip doesnt change.

conf101 · 17-01-2013 1:41pm

Seems the Sexton to Racing Metro rumours aren't all they're cracked up to be. Seem to be the typical contract games.

From balls.ie:

http://www.balls.ie/rugby/racing-metro-president-pours-cold-water-on-jonathan-sextons-rumoured-move-to-france/#sthash.c5KJlUMl.dpbs

ssaye · 17-01-2013 1:42pm

from LF site

At training in UCD today McFadden sitting on the sideline with his left knee heavily strapped. Not sure they’re writing him off altogether though as there was no other outside back standing with the matchday subs. Team looks like …

1. Healy
2. Cronin
3. Ross
4. Cullen
5. Toner
6. McLaughlin
7. O’Brien
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Fitzgerald
12. Darcy
13. O’Driscoll
14. Nacewa
15. Kearney

In one of the articles in today's Irish Times Schools Rugby supplement (think it's the one on Girv), it mentions that Adam Byrne has been promoted to the Academy. - Haven't read it myself just heard.

totallegend · 17-01-2013 1:52pm

ssaye wrote: »

from LF site

At training in UCD today McFadden sitting on the sideline with his left knee heavily strapped. Not sure they’re writing him off altogether though as there was no other outside back standing with the matchday subs. Team looks like …

1. Healy
2. Cronin
3. Ross
4. Cullen
5. Toner
6. McLaughlin
7. O’Brien
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Fitzgerald
12. Darcy
13. O’Driscoll
14. Nacewa
15. Kearney

Me likey that team.

Hard on Jennings after his last two performances but letting McLaughlin crash into them for 50 minutes and Jennings to lift the pace in the final stages as Exeter (hopefully) tire sounds like a plan to me.

If that does pan out, it would be an interesting reversal of policy at scrum-half, in that Boss played at home against the namby-pamby Scarlets nonces while Reddan would start away to the artless grizzlies of Exeter.*

*may be generalising slightly here.

tolosenc · 17-01-2013 4:04pm

totallegend wrote: »

Me likey that team.

Hard on Jennings after his last two performances but letting McLaughlin crash into them for 50 minutes and Jennings to lift the pace in the final stages as Exeter (hopefully) tire sounds like a plan to me.

If that does pan out, it would be an interesting reversal of policy at scrum-half, in that Boss played at home against the namby-pamby Scarlets nonces while Reddan would start away to the artless grizzlies of Exeter.*

*may be generalising slightly here.

Reddan & Jenno for speed.
Locky & Boss for power.

davidpfitz · 17-01-2013 6:49pm

Racing Metro fail in Sexton and Carter bids

Racing Metro owner Jacky Lorenzetti has described chances of his team signing Jonathan Sexton as "tiny" and also admitted that his side have lost out in their bid to recruit Dan Carter.

Lorenzetti's big-spending Racing Metro have already secured Soane Tonga'uiha, Juandre Kruger and Brian Mujati ahead of next season but they have missed out on Carter and Sexton. Talking to Sport 365 about Carter, Lorenzetti said the fly-half "will perhaps do a short stint in Japan" and that "he won't come to Europe".

Racing have also been linked with Sexton, but that move does not appear to be on the cards. "The Irish are the Irish. They're very attached to their homeland," Lorenzetti said. "They often have a strategy of blowing their own trumpet and using other clubs, notably the French, who are renowned for paying well, to raise the stakes, up the bidding and better negotiate their contracts in Ireland. If I have helped Sexton to better negotiate his contract, then why not? The chances of Sexton coming to France are tiny and to Racing ever more so."

From: http://blogs.espnscrum.com/latest-news/archives/2013/01/racing_metro_fail_in_sexton_an.php

More Here: http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_8402826,00.html

Tox56 · 17-01-2013 8:51pm

Just watching Sky Sports there and they showed one of Macken's tries from the A team game v Ponty. It looked like a professional set-up as well, frustrating that they can't put these games on youtube or something.

.ak · 17-01-2013 9:39pm

Tox56 wrote: »

Just watching Sky Sports there and they showed one of Macken's tries from the A team game v Ponty. It looked like a professional set-up as well, frustrating that they can't put these games on youtube or something.

Really? What context was it in? I didn't see too many cameras there of decent quality either...

Tox56 · 17-01-2013 9:47pm

.ak wrote: »

Really? What context was it in? I didn't see too many cameras there of decent quality either...

A round-up of the B&I cup games, similarly good quality footage of the Munster and Ulster games too.

.ak · 17-01-2013 9:56pm

Tox56 wrote: »

A round-up of the B&I cup games, similarly good quality footage of the Munster and Ulster games too.

Interesting. I wonder if Sky are sending camera crews around just for highlights or if it was inhouse stuff.

CatFromHue · 17-01-2013 9:56pm

Anyone remember the 05/06 season?

Leinster lost to Bath in the first HEC game, first game in the RDS too, and a 2 point loss away to Bourgoin in round 4 had us up the sh*tter. In round 5 we got the try bonus win at home to Glasgow but still needed to go to Bath and win. Bath were a decent enough team around then, they finished 4th the previous season in the Premiership.

We won and put 5 tries on em to secure the 8th seeding position giving us the away QF to No. 1 seeds Toulouse.

.ak · 17-01-2013 9:59pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

Anyone remember the 05/06 season?

Leinster lost to Bath in the first HEC game, first game in the RDS too, and a 2 point loss away to Bourgoin in round 4 had us up the sh*tter. In round 5 we got the try bonus win at home to Glasgow but still needed to go to Bath and win. Bath were a decent enough team around then, they finished 4th the previous season in the Premiership.

We won and put 5 tries on em to secure the 8th seeding position giving us the away QF to No. 1 seeds Toulouse.

Super game too.

.ak · 17-01-2013 10:01pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt5D8vNV3TA

Conters on fire.

clsmooth · 17-01-2013 10:02pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

Anyone remember the 05/06 season?

Leinster lost to Bath in the first HEC game, first game in the RDS too, and a 2 point loss away to Bourgoin in round 4 had us up the sh*tter. In round 5 we got the try bonus win at home to Glasgow but still needed to go to Bath and win. Bath were a decent enough team around then, they finished 4th the previous season in the Premiership.

We won and put 5 tries on em to secure the 8th seeding position giving us the away QF to No. 1 seeds Toulouse.

Its brilliant how Shaggy pops up out of nowhere for the first

Deano7788 · 17-01-2013 10:04pm

That is uncanny.

.ak · 17-01-2013 10:08pm

Well in fairness we qualified with 22 points. What I'd give for a potential max of 22 this weekend...

Deano7788 · 17-01-2013 10:10pm

.ak wrote: »

Well in fairness we qualified with 22 points. What I'd give for a potential max of 22 this weekend...

I mean't the posting of the same video at almost the exact same time. The performance and result wasn't that bad either though I suppose...

CatFromHue · 17-01-2013 10:13pm

.ak wrote: »

Well in fairness we qualified with 22 points. What I'd give for a potential max of 22 this weekend...

Two bonus point wins in the last two games and scoring 13 tries in doing so.

Two wins with only scoring 4 tries between the two games would have put us out.

.ak · 17-01-2013 10:14pm

Deano7788 wrote: »

I mean't the posting of the same video at almost the exact same time. The performance and result wasn't that bad either though I suppose...

Well.... in fairness I was 1 minute quicker. :cool:

ongarite · 17-01-2013 11:20pm

The tries in that video were something special. All out best backs playing unbelievable rugby.

Quint2010 · 17-01-2013 11:35pm

Rumours are that BOD may not start this weekend-hence The Wolfhounds selection..:cool:

Foxtrol · 18-01-2013 7:41am

Any chance the game at the weekend might be postponed? At time of writing looking at the weather forecast it looks like it'll be freezing and snowing all day today and most of tomorrow

http://www.metcheck.com/UK/today.asp?zipcode=exeter

Doesn't look as bad on the BBC forecast though. Anyone over in those parts can confirm how its looking?

jacothelad · 18-01-2013 7:49am

0900

2 °C ENE 11 mph 21 mph Moderate 1200

2 °C ENE 12 mph 23 mph Good 1500

2 °C NE 11 mph Moderate 1800

1 °C NE 10 mph Good Night

-1 °C NE 9 mph Good

Danger_dave1 · 18-01-2013 8:12am

Could be difficult even getting to Exeter. I'm sitting in Dublin airport with a delayed flight .

18-01-2013 9:45am

Lot of snow falling in Staffordshire (fair bit away, but snow is pretty widespread). I'm no longer able to attend the game as need to head home for a funeral, worried that my flight from Manchester this evening is going to be cancelled.

molloyjh · 18-01-2013 10:58am

Foxtrol wrote: »

Any chance the game at the weekend might be postponed? At time of writing looking at the weather forecast it looks like it'll be freezing and snowing all day today and most of tomorrow

http://www.metcheck.com/UK/today.asp?zipcode=exeter

Doesn't look as bad on the BBC forecast though. Anyone over in those parts can confirm how its looking?

The Met Office in the UK have issued snow warnings, but most forecasts seem to say it'll be snowing today, but tomorrow will be mostly cloudy with a chance of rain early on. It will be bloody cold though!

irishbucsfan · 18-01-2013 11:04am

It's bucketing down with snow here where I'm working, but that's a fair bit further east of Exeter. I believe the South West will miss the worst of it.

totallegend · 18-01-2013 11:05am

CatFromHue wrote: »

Anyone remember the 05/06 season?

Leinster lost to Bath in the first HEC game, first game in the RDS too, and a 2 point loss away to Bourgoin in round 4 had us up the sh*tter. In round 5 we got the try bonus win at home to Glasgow but still needed to go to Bath and win. Bath were a decent enough team around then, they finished 4th the previous season in the Premiership.

We won and put 5 tries on em to secure the 8th seeding position giving us the away QF to No. 1 seeds Toulouse.

Remember it like it was yesterday. There wasn't an out-half in Europe who came near Contepomi when he was on form like that. Final whistle went, I was straight onto the internet booking flights to Toulouse. Good times.

Another outcome like that this weekend would be just fine, thanks.

Honey-ec · 18-01-2013 11:15am

Foxtrol wrote: »

Doesn't look as bad on the BBC forecast though. Anyone over in those parts can confirm how its looking?

A Chief's fan is posting updates on the fansite, I wouldn't be too concerned at all - latest update as at 09.56:

"Live from Exeter.

Light wet snow here in Exeter itself. Road links in and out of the County affected by heavier snowfalls. Exeter Airport currently open with flights arriving and departing.

Local weather is expecting the snow falls to reduce during the morning and into early afternoon. No snow forcast for tomorrow.

As I mentioned yesterday the bigger problem at present today is with Bristol Airport however that should be OK for tomorrow."

Biggest issue will be for people driving/getting the train from other parts of the UK.

The Aer Lingus red-eye to Bristol was cancelled this morning, but the 10.10 is still running and all passengers were transferred to that.

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread II

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