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NBA Regular Season 2011/2012

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Comments

  • #502
    Felexicon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,424 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    leggo wrote: »
    How do you not see the similarities??

    The underlying message of both is 'It's not acceptable to deliberately aim to hurt your opponent on the field of play'. Only, apparently, it's more acceptable in basketball.
    Well first of all the major issue with the NFL claims are that it was premeditated and opposing players had bountys on thier heads. There is no evidence to suggest the same is happening in this case.
    I whole heartedly agree that it is unacceptable to do what MWP did but its the talk of it being a criminal offence and that past issues should be taken into account when handing out suspensions thats gets me annoyed.

    While he may not be the most level headed person in the world I don't beleive he planned to elbow Harden before the game.

    An idiotic thing to do? Yes
    Should he serve the ban? Yes


  • #503
    leggo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    I agree that it wasn't pre-meditated (however I'd also say that the coaches encouraging the players to do this was what made the Saints case much worse, rather than the pre-meditation). You can't take the heat of the moment as a defence though. Again, these are professionals paid extremely well and should be expected to handle these situations.

    Put it this way: why do we suspend players? To punish them for their actions, set an example to the rest of the basketball world and to discourage the players from doing the same. With them now having set a precedent, what's to stop a Bobcats player from doing the exact same tonight? They get an early end to a miserable season and an extra-long summer break as 'punishment'!

    As for Artest, he has shown flagrant disregard for the rules and his fellow players and will, no doubt, be laughing that he continues to pretty much get away with it unscathed. They missed a massive opportunity here to set an example.


  • #504
    Felexicon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,424 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    leggo wrote: »
    I agree that it wasn't pre-meditated (however I'd also say that the coaches encouraging the players to do this was what made the Saints case much worse, rather than the pre-meditation). You can't take the heat of the moment as a defence though. Again, these are professionals paid extremely well and should be expected to handle these situations.

    Put it this way: why do we suspend players? To punish them for their actions, set an example to the rest of the basketball world and to discourage the players from doing the same. With them now having set a precedent, what's to stop a Bobcats player from doing the exact same tonight? They get an early end to a miserable season and an extra-long summer break as 'punishment'!

    As for Artest, he has shown flagrant disregard for the rules and his fellow players and will, no doubt, be laughing that he continues to pretty much get away with it unscathed. They missed a massive opportunity here to set an example.
    I hate this arguement that because someone is paid they have to be some sort of emotionless robot who doesn't react to situations. I get paid in work and I lose the rag every now and then its only natural.
    No doubt be laughing. You clearly have never seen any interview with MWP. There was a documentary done before, I think it was part of the ESPN 30 for 30 series that followed MWP and shows a good insight into his love for the game and his mental health issues


  • #505
    leggo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    No wonder you think it's a grand suspension, you seem to be arguing that if you have a bad day in work you go around elbowing people! :p

    A bad day for a basketball star is scoring low, being poor on defence, giving away sloppy turnovers etc. As a professional, whether you're earning minimum wage or millions, you should keep your emotions in check on the job and not lash out physically at others (unless your profession is in MMA).

    Though I haven't seen that documentary, I am aware of Artest's history and his mental health issues. For me, though it mightn't sound nice, mental health is no excuse especially if it has been identified and diagnosed. As with an injury, if he is deemed mentally fit enough to step on a court then he is mentally fit enough to be called to task for his actions. It's not acceptable to use mental health issues as a catch all excuse for misdeeds and it demeans the gravity of the problems others suffer from to do so.


  • #506
    Felexicon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,424 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    leggo wrote: »
    No wonder you think it's a grand suspension, you seem to be arguing that if you have a bad day in work you go around elbowing people! :p

    A bad day for a basketball star is scoring low, being poor on defence, giving away sloppy turnovers etc. As a professional, whether you're earning minimum wage or millions, you should keep your emotions in check on the job and not lash out physically at others (unless your profession is in MMA).

    Though I haven't seen that documentary, I am aware of Artest's history and his mental health issues. For me, though it mightn't sound nice, mental health is no excuse especially if it has been identified and diagnosed. As with an injury, if he is deemed mentally fit enough to step on a court then he is mentally fit enough to be called to task for his actions. It's not acceptable to use mental health issues as a catch all excuse for misdeeds and it demeans the gravity of the problems others suffer from to do so.
    You're right that is exactly what I said.

    Look I think we almost agree on this. You simply think the punishment should be increased.

    I'm going to say something now that should never be said on forums. Let's agree to disagree


  • #507
    leggo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    I was only slagging there. Yay for diplomacy. Good game, good game.


  • #508
    Felexicon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,424 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    leggo wrote: »
    I was only slagging there. Yay for diplomacy. Good game, good game.
    I mean don't get me wrong I love a good debate, but the basketball community on here is too small to be arguing on a thread that gets maybe 2 posts a day.


  • #509
    moneyman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭moneyman


    Felexicon wrote: »
    No. This isn't some sort of crime you're dealing with. Things happen in the heat of the moment and some players don't keep control of thier emotions as well as others.
    Would you be in favour of some kind of 3 strikes and you're out rule


    I will just chip in and say that I disagree with this. History certainly should be taken into account. If Artest hasn't gotten it by now, he's not going to get it. He's extremely lucky to have only gotten a 7 game ban, an intentional elbow with that much force behind it could have easily ended a lot worse. He got Harden right behind the ear - that is a knockout spot. It's not an excuse that some players can't control their emotions, that's the very problem. They need to learn how. The onus is on them to control themselves and if they can't do it, they should be gone.

    Artest is a ticking time-bomb, as always. Other players are at risk when he's on the court. Even moreso now that Bynum has channelled his inner Artest and they've teamed up. Artest and the Lakers can count themselves very lucky that Artest is only gone for 7 games.


  • #510
    buyer95
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭buyer95


    What do ye guys think is a better outcome for the knicks, the heat or the bulls in the 1st round? Personally I think we would have a better chance against the bulls, who would have a hard time dealing with Anthony, in his current form. Add to that Shumpert's lock down d, which will put pressure on the bulls to find other scorers, if he matches up with rose... Chandler v Noah would be a great battle too. I think that would be a great series, but for it to happen the knicks need the 8th seed, imo theres a lot to be said for tanking it against charlotte tonight,and hoping the 76ers do the business in detroit


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  • #511
    Brianna Bewildered Tofu
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Brianna Bewildered Tofu


    Felexicon wrote: »
    Jesus wept!!!!!!!!!! It is a crime??????????
    I think you'll find its called a foul!!!!!!!!!
    Otherwise a charge or stray elbow could be considered a crime.

    So what if young children are watching. If my kids ever look up to MWP as a role model I'll know I've failed as a parent

    it is a crime if you walked up to someone on the street and elbowed them youd get done for assault charges are a part of the game elbowing someone in the head is not

    i always felt zidane should have been done for his head butt personally


  • #512
    buyer95
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭buyer95


    Brianna Bewildered Tofu wrote: »
    it is a crime if you walked up to someone on the street and elbowed them youd get done for assault charges are a part of the game elbowing someone in the head is not

    i always felt zidane should have been done for his head butt personally

    Fifa gave Zidane player of the tournament if I recall corectly. You have opened a bit of a can of worms there by mentioning Zidane and leaving out the background info that led to Zidane lashing out.

    In that game, Materazzi repeatedly tugged at Zidane's jersey, eventually Zidane got sick of this, and sarcastically offered to give materazzi his shirt after the game, to which materazzi replied " I prefer the whore that is your sister ." If a fellow player said that to me on a football field, the least I would be doing would be headbutting the guy.

    Zidane = Legend

    Artest = Psychopathic Idiot


  • #513
    padraig_f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,301 ✭✭✭padraig_f


    buyer95 wrote: »
    What do ye guys think is a better outcome for the knicks, the heat or the bulls in the 1st round? Personally I think we would have a better chance against the bulls, who would have a hard time dealing with Anthony, in his current form. Add to that Shumpert's lock down d, which will put pressure on the bulls to find other scorers, if he matches up with rose... Chandler v Noah would be a great battle too. I think that would be a great series, but for it to happen the knicks need the 8th seed, imo theres a lot to be said for tanking it against charlotte tonight,and hoping the 76ers do the business in detroit

    The Heat are the most over-rated team in the playoffs and won't be getting out of the East. People keep tipping them to win, but they couldn't beat an aging Dallas team last year (standard is better this year), couldn't get the best record in East this year despite no significant injuries, and they've got worse as the season has gone on. If the Knicks don't beat them, the Pacers will.

    I think the Heat make a pretty good matchup for the Knicks. Wade hasn't been great the last few weeks, and Shumpert can defend him. Chandler can guard Bosh like he did in the finals last year. Lebron will get his points, but then so will Carmelo. And you'd probably take Shumpert/JR Smith/Novak/Fields over the Heat's supporting cast.

    The Heat are one of the worst teams defending the 3-pointer, which is a big weapon for the Knicks (2nd highest team in 3-point attempts), and Chicago are one of the best at defending it. Chandler guarding Noah would mean the Knicks best defender is on the Bulls lowest-scoring starter, so he'd be a bit wasted there. The Bulls offense is more balanced this season, so limiting Rose won't be as effective as last year. Also the Bulls will kill the Knicks on the boards, they're 1st in rebound differential at +6.5, Knicks are 16th at -0.1, Miami +2.1.

    Wade/Lebron/Bosh haven't played together in about the last 10 games of the season and I think will be vulnerable in the opening couple of games. That's the key for the Knicks I think, to steal game 1 or 2 in Miami. I think it will be Knicks vs. Heat because it's hard to tank against the Bobcats, and the 76ers have said they prefer to play the Bulls, and have rested key players against Detroit.


  • #514
    leggo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    padraig_f wrote: »
    The Heat are the most over-rated team in the playoffs and won't be getting out of the East. People keep tipping them to win, but they couldn't beat an aging Dallas team last year (standard is better this year), couldn't get the best record in East this year despite no significant injuries, and they've got worse as the season has gone on. If the Knicks don't beat them, the Pacers will.

    I think the Heat make a pretty good matchup for the Knicks. Wade hasn't been great the last few weeks, and Shumpert can defend him. Chandler can guard Bosh like he did in the finals last year. Lebron will get his points, but then so will Carmelo. And you'd probably take Shumpert/JR Smith/Novak/Fields over the Heat's supporting cast.

    The Heat are one of the worst teams defending the 3-pointer, which is a big weapon for the Knicks (2nd highest team in 3-point attempts), and Chicago are one of the best at defending it. Chandler guarding Noah would mean the Knicks best defender is on the Bulls lowest-scoring starter, so he'd be a bit wasted there. The Bulls offense is more balanced this season, so limiting Rose won't be as effective as last year. Also the Bulls will kill the Knicks on the boards, they're 1st in rebound differential at +6.5, Knicks are 16th at -0.1, Miami +2.1.

    Wade/Lebron/Bosh haven't played together in about the last 10 games of the season and I think will be vulnerable in the opening couple of games. That's the key for the Knicks I think, to steal game 1 or 2 in Miami. I think it will be Knicks vs. Heat because it's hard to tank against the Bobcats, and the 76ers have said they prefer to play the Bulls, and have rested key players against Detroit.

    Nice analysis man. I hope you're right, but I can't help but fear that Miami will come alive in the play-offs like they did last year. Remember how underwhelming they were in the regular season then, too? And how little it mattered against Chicago.

    I wouldn't rule out Boston for the East either. They're still very dangerous and, if they got a bit of momentum behind them, who knows? No team will want to play them.

    Chicago are strong but they remind me of San Antonio in that they can be consistent but just seem to lack that extra oomph when it counts. They've appeared beatable when they come up against inspired opposition, and that's what the play-offs are all about...getting on a run and taking down whatever is in front of you. Same with San Antonio...as good as they are, when do you ever sit back and think, "Wow...that was an amazing performance" with them? How often have they been discussed on this topic? And yet, in the end, they coasted to the top of the West ahead of most fan's picks in OKC.

    With Rose still somewhat out of sorts, the shortened season may just have sabotaged their rhythm and chances (much as I'd like to see them win, if not Orlando or the Knicks). Boston could take them down in the Conference Semis if they build up a bit of steam. Plus Rondo will be like a kid in a candy shop with all the national TV coverage he's going to be getting.

    Whatever happens, I cannot wait for play-off marathons with ESPN on the big screen and a 2nd game on NBA.tv. And I shouldn't be this excited considering I'm a Magic fan and our main goal is not to get sweeped in the 1st round!


  • #515
    padraig_f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,301 ✭✭✭padraig_f


    leggo wrote: »
    Nice analysis man. I hope you're right, but I can't help but fear that Miami will come alive in the play-offs like they did last year. Remember how underwhelming they were in the regular season then, too? And how little it mattered against Chicago.

    Yeah the playoffs are a different animal, and you never quite know how a team will perform in them until they start. I do think the Bulls are better this year. Last year they were mostly healthy and doing all they could to get the top seed in the regular season. And when it came to the playoffs, they didn't have an extra gear to go to.

    This year it feels like they've been blowing teams out more, have had to contend with more injuries during the regular season, so I think they're capable of raising it to another level for the playoffs. Rose & Hamilton both being healthy (which they haven't been most of the season) is how I think they can raise their game. Hamilton seems to have got his game-fitness back lately, Rose hasn't played a lot of games, but looked ok last night. Offensively the Bulls haven't really reached the heights during the regular season, but I think with the starters healthy, they can.

    Same with the Heat, they've had a pretty poor record since the All-Star break, but how close was that to their maximum performance? We won't really know until the playoffs start. I do think there's a problem with Wade (whether it's injury or just wearing down), and they were resting him a lot in the last few weeks, so they thought there was too. And LeBron has carried the team a lot, you wonder if he's wearing down. To me they probably look worse than this time last year, while other teams have gotten better.


  • #516
    padraig_f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,301 ✭✭✭padraig_f


    Bulls secure best overall record, bring on the playoffs :)


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  • #517
    buyer95
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭buyer95


    Big day of basketball today feel like a kid in a candy shop! Bulls - Sixers game is at 6, and Knicks - Heat is on at 8:30.Im going for the bulls and knicks


  • #518
    dub_skav
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭dub_skav


    Are espn showing any of the playoff games or will you be watching online? Can't see anything on sky epg


  • #519
    UCD AFC
    Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭UCD AFC


    dub_skav wrote: »
    Are espn showing any of the playoff games or will you be watching online? Can't see anything on sky epg

    As far as I can see their playoff coverage begins on Monday night with NY @ Miami followed by Dallas @ OKC


  • #520
    Paully D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,710 ✭✭✭✭Paully D


    Lads, do any of you have a list of dates and times for the playoff games in Irish time (GMT)?

    Cheers.


  • #521
    clonadlad
    Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭clonadlad


    What streams do people use on here for games? I usually use first row sports but the quality is a bit dodgy for the bulls game now.


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  • #522
    kmart6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,172 ✭✭✭✭kmart6


    Fcuk sake...Rose injured again...need to wrap him in cotton wool!


  • #523
    Carcharodon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,002 ✭✭✭Carcharodon


    Jesus Christ, LeBron is flopping all over the place, don't even think Chandlers foul on him was a flagrant, a foul alright but come on.... NY cant catch a break off the refs.
    NY are really struggling at the moment.


  • #524
    Paully D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,710 ✭✭✭✭Paully D


    13 turnovers for the Knicks in the 2nd quarter. Refs aren't giving them much at all (God forbid someone try and challenge a Heat player) but that statistic is frightening.

    LeBron has decided to start flopping around like a fish at any given opportunity :rolleyes: In fairness to him he's on fire.

    Heat up by 23 at the half and that's that for game 1.


  • #525
    leggo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    Sooo...the Heat are clearly bringing their A-game to the play-off. Balls.

    The question is will the Knicks sulk after that and roll over for them or will they use it to drive them forward? Suppose that's been the question of their entire season.

    Magic next up. Terrified. Please be gentle Pacers...:(


  • #526
    killwill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,785 ✭✭✭killwill


    leggo wrote: »
    Sooo...the Heat are clearly bringing their A-game to the play-off. Balls.

    The question is will the Knicks sulk after that and roll over for them or will they use it to drive them forward? Suppose that's been the question of their entire season.

    Magic next up. Terrified. Please be gentle Pacers...:(

    The joys of being a Magic's fan!!!

    I read 5 diffeent reports about Dwight Howard's availability for the playoffs but none were from the club directly.
    Some are saying he needs surgery on a herniated disc, others that he is ok, what is the official stance?


  • #527
    Paully D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,710 ✭✭✭✭Paully D


    Rose is done for the season. Torn ACL.

    Absolutely devastated.


  • #528
    kmart6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,172 ✭✭✭✭kmart6


    Love the way Fisher was the only OKC player who seemed to have some perspective after that win and wasn't jumping around the place, nothing won yet!


  • #529
    killwill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,785 ✭✭✭killwill


    Still a huge win for OKC. Trailing all game and to turn it around like that, I would have done the same tbh. Just a bit of passion and relief!


  • #530
    buyer95
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭buyer95


    clonadlad wrote: »
    What streams do people use on here for games? I usually use first row sports but the quality is a bit dodgy for the bulls game now.

    I either use first row sports or else myp2p


  • #531
    killwill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,785 ✭✭✭killwill


    buyer95 wrote: »
    I either use first row sports or else myp2p

    Also adthenet.tv. First row sports is my preference though.


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  • #532
    kmart6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,172 ✭✭✭✭kmart6


    Shambles of a 4th quarter by Memphis!


  • #533
    killwill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,785 ✭✭✭killwill


    kmart6 wrote: »
    Shambles of a 4th quarter by Memphis!

    They were leading by 15 or so with 5mins to go and I switched off. I presume they still won yeah?


  • #534
    kmart6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,172 ✭✭✭✭kmart6


    Nope, lost by one!


  • #535
    SoulGuy
    Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭SoulGuy


    Holy crap. That was a 24 point game when I went to bed.:eek:


  • #536
    leggo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    Delighted. I like the Grizzlies, but wouldn't it make life more interesting to have the Clippers go on a play-off run? Imagine a Clippers/Lakers series in the Conference Finals.

    Btw, in case anyone missed it, there's a new thread for the play-offs:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=78408333#post78408333


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