Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Please note that it is not permitted to have referral links posted in your signature. Keep these links contained in the appropriate forum. Thank you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

VRT Megathread - ALL VRT DISCUSSION IN HERE - Read First Post

12467…17

Comments

  • #152
    Paparazzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,397 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    If they can't even get the colour of the flag right, what chance do they have of getting this taken seriously?


  • #153
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Ryan, I'm just lifting a quote from you from the facebook page about us here on boards "small minded people with no idea what it's like up here"


    So whats it like up in Donegal and why do you think your special with regard paying taxes like the rest of us?


    Where was the vocal campaign for the last 20 odd years when the rest of the country was getting on with it and paying their taxes? Only now when the poor folk of Donegal are expected to start obeying the law do you all come out of the woodwork and suddenly cry foul. It'd be funny if it wasnt so sad.

    How about an answer to my post above? (no 128)


  • #154
    ryanstewart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭ryanstewart


    steve06 wrote: »
    That doesn't make a difference to VRT take, because the cars that are being bought, have a lower VRT rates than they used to. So the VRT take will more than likely be down!

    That's correct Steve

    http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2010-03-10.1640.0&s=vrt#g1642.0.r

    Brian Lenihan's own words - as the scrappage scheme only provides for those on low emission vehicles. Removing VRT though will see a jump in car sales for all tax bands, however road tax would still be payable in the different bands, however by moving to a usage tax eventually, this would mean fairer motoring costs for everyone.


  • #155
    ryanstewart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭ryanstewart


    Stekelly wrote: »
    Ryan, I'm just lifting a quote from you from the facebook page about us here on boards "small minded people with no idea what it's like up here"


    So whats it like up in Donegal and why do you think your special with regard paying taxes like the rest of us?


    Where was the vocal campaign for the last 20 odd years when the rest of the country was getting on with it and paying their taxes? Only now when the poor folk of Donegal are expected to start obeying the law do you all come out of the woodwork and suddenly cry foul. It'd be funny if it wasnt so sad.

    How about an answer to my post above? (no 128)

    You're dead right, it's about time we started standing up for ourselves and it has taken too long. And by the way, after Dublin and Cork, Donegal has paid the highest amounts of VRT in the country. I'm not getting into a row county vs county, there's a lot more to it than not paying taxes, like no public transport, rural areas, higher unemployment than anywhere else in the country, average wage less than the rest of the country, having to travel across the country for basic health services - we could argue this all day- and NI reg cars are all over the country - not just in Donegal. It just happens that Donegal is targeted more than any other for these sting operations.


  • #156
    ryanstewart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭ryanstewart


    Stekelly wrote: »
    Receipt for a private sale?

    Even for garage sales, are you saying there aren't garages that would give you a favourable receipt while your spending thousands with them?

    Ryanstewart: just on point 1 about the Uk tax, are you honestly saying that people not living in the Uk, with no Uk address, driving cars that are not registered in the Uk anymore are
    somehow renewing their tax each year in the Uk ? How are they going about this?

    Your proposals seem conveniently geared towards the peope in border counties. Removing motor tax and vet while adding the difference to fuel increases the cost of fuel to everyone in the country bar the nicely situated people that can just nip over the border and fill up cheaply. How many petrol stations will close costing jobs and tax revenue here?

    People who have an address in the north can do it fairly easily, and DVLA don't particularly mind people paying tax to them without having to chase it.

    Petrol and diesel in the north is more expensive - this will lead to parity on that too. And I agree with you - anyone can get a receipt saying the car cost them less, but the argument is irrelevant as we know that it doesn't matter what you tell revenue it cost you - only what they say it is worth.


  • Advertisement
  • #157
    ardmacha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    And by the way, after Dublin and Cork, Donegal has paid the highest amounts of VRT in the country.

    If Donegal is so hard up, why are people buying so many expensive cars?


  • #158
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    ryanstewart wrote: »
    People who have an address in the north can do it fairly easily, and DVLA don't particularly mind people paying tax to them without having to chase it.
    .

    When the cars are sold the permenat export section should be sent to the DVLA so it wouldnt be possible to pay the motor tax as the car effectivly doesnt exist anymore.

    c


  • #159
    ryanstewart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭ryanstewart


    Stekelly wrote: »
    When the cars are sold the permenat export section should be sent to the DVLA so it wouldnt be possible to pay the motor tax as the car effectivly doesnt exist anymore.

    c
    That's only if it's been "exported" - if it's left in a northern address, this doesn't happen. Garages have been known to tax cars for people too. It's how Customs/Revenue enforce Social Welfare fraud too. There's quite a lot of that around the border areas, with people driving down from the north to claim better dole. Basically if they stop a NI car, it's catch 22 for the occupants - you either live in the north and shouldn't be collecting the dole here so it's fraud, or you do live here but own a north reg car, so you owe VRT.

    I'm not advocating border hopping for the dole either!!


  • #160
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    Stekelly wrote: »
    Ryan, I'm just lifting a quote from you from the facebook page about us here on boards "small minded people with no idea what it's like up here"

    Wow, well spotted!

    http://www.facebook.com/posted.php?id=114939931865765&share_id=120218628005540&comments=1#s120218628005540

    I'm properly surprised at this Ryan, and I'm quite annoyed too. I gave up my valuable time debating this with you in a mature way, as did most of the posters here.

    This post is disrespectful of people who have given you the time and respect to actually assess and debate your ideas here. You should be ashamed.

    I won't be "debating" with you any further. Your arguements are dubious and your integrity is now in question.

    :mad:


  • #161
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    ryanstewart wrote: »
    And by the way, after Dublin and Cork, Donegal has paid the highest amounts of VRT in the country.
    Why is that? Surely Limerick, Galway and Waterford would be next?


  • Advertisement
  • #162
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    JHMEG wrote: »
    Why is that? Surely Limerick, Galway and Waterford would be next?

    Especially considering the people of Donegal apparently only found out about VRT in the last couple of months.:)


  • #163
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Stekelly wrote: »
    Especially considering the people of Donegal apparently only found out about VRT in the last couple of months.:)
    Don't forget....
    ryanstewart wrote: »
    higher unemployment than anywhere else in the country, average wage less than the rest of the country


  • #164
    TRYITNC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭TRYITNC


    JHMEG wrote: »
    The should start a facebook campaign to allow Donegal rejoin the United Kingdom. I don't think I'd miss them ;)
    I think they should do to dublin what theyre doing to greece ;)


  • #165
    Gophur
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭Gophur


    ryanstewart wrote: »
    ............. It just happens that Donegal is targeted more than any other for these sting operations.

    It may be targeted more, because it has the highest level of tax evaders.

    If you get VRT abolished, where do you propose the missing tax revenue would come from?


  • #166
    TRYITNC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭TRYITNC


    Gophur wrote: »
    So, no doubt, after this campaign is successful, we will have the Donegal Brigade deciding

    1. We want to buy our cars in the UK,
    2. Draw the dole in the Republic
    3. Buy our Groceries in the North
    4. Pay our Council Tax in the Republic
    5. Visit the Dentist in the North
    6. Go to school in the Republic
    7. Visit A&RE in the North

    ..........................etc., etc.,

    So, cherry picking is the way forward
    Do I detect jealousy in your post? who doesnt like a bargain? especially when moneys tight,try getting into asda in newry at the weekend,cant move for dublin people up stocking up on cheap alcohol and groceries,theyre easy to spot,wife pushing a trolley full of groceries hubby pushing one full of beer,all going to the uk coffers,fair play to them.Of course people living along the border are going to cherry pick from both sides you would too if you lived there,are you honestly saying that if you had 2 local pubs,1 charging €6 a pint a 1 charging €3 a pint that you would go to the more expensive one because it puts more tax the governments way?....get real!


  • #167
    TRYITNC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭TRYITNC


    Stekelly wrote: »
    I'd join it.:)

    Im starting a facebook page calling for fat-headed over-opinionated rugby players from dublin to be made ilegal.....want to join that one too ;)


  • #168
    KamiKazi
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,201 ✭✭✭KamiKazi


    TRYITNC wrote: »
    I think they should do to dublin what theyre doing to greece ;)

    Hi, welcome to Boards, hows the weather in Donegal? Watch out for those Customs officers though OK?


  • #169
    Eoin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,257 ✭✭✭✭Eoin


    TRYITNC wrote: »
    Im starting a facebook page calling for fat-headed over-opinionated rugby players from dublin to be made ilegal.....want to join that one too ;)

    That's enough of that.


  • #170
    tobsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭tobsey


    TRYITNC wrote: »
    Do I detect jealousy in your post? who doesnt like a bargain? especially when moneys tight,try getting into asda in newry at the weekend,cant move for dublin people up stocking up on cheap alcohol and groceries,theyre easy to spot,wife pushing a trolley full of groceries hubby pushing one full of beer,all going to the uk coffers,fair play to them.Of course people living along the border are going to cherry pick from both sides you would too if you lived there,are you honestly saying that if you had 2 local pubs,1 charging €6 a pint a 1 charging €3 a pint that you would go to the more expensive one because it puts more tax the governments way?....get real!

    That's all fine and perfectly legal. Of course someone living in the border counties will take take advantage and border hop as necessary. However it is illegal to drive an imported car on the road in the republic until it has been registered. You are perfectly entitled to buy a car anywhere in the EU, however if you want to drive it on Irish roads you have to register it and pay VRT. Simple as.


  • #171
    ryanstewart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭ryanstewart


    -Chris- wrote: »
    Wow, well spotted!

    http://www.facebook.com/posted.php?id=114939931865765&share_id=120218628005540&comments=1#s120218628005540

    I'm properly surprised at this Ryan, and I'm quite annoyed too. I gave up my valuable time debating this with you in a mature way, as did most of the posters here.

    This post is disrespectful of people who have given you the time and respect to actually assess and debate your ideas here. You should be ashamed.

    I won't be "debating" with you any further. Your arguements are dubious and your integrity is now in question.

    :mad:
    What I mean by small minded Chris is that this is quickly turning into a Donegal v Dublin debate - it's much more than that and I've said that all along, and I appreciate the argument is coming from both sides now - have a look through the posts - I think people in Donegal do have a right to feel victimised by how this has been carried out though - apologies If I've offended anyone by that remark, there are constructive questions and points that have been made, but some are just passing digs at us!


  • Advertisement
  • #172
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    ryanstewart wrote: »
    What I mean by small minded Chris is that this is quickly turning into a Donegal v Dublin debate - it's much more than that and I've said that all along, and I appreciate the argument is coming from both sides now - have a look through the posts - I think people in Donegal do have a right to feel victimised by how this has been carried out though - apologies If I've offended anyone by that remark, there are constructive questions and points that have been made, but some are just passing digs at us!

    The only reason there's Donegal vs anyone is because the people of donegal were happy to sit back and go about their day breaking the law while the rest of the country was paying vrt, it's only now that it's your turn to jointhe rest of us that there's uroar in the north west.
    Victimised? Give me a ****ing break. You've been having it easy, justbecause the law is now being applied to you equally doesn't mean your being victimised.


  • #173
    TRYITNC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭TRYITNC


    KamiKazi wrote: »
    Hi, welcome to Boards, hows the weather in Donegal? Watch out for those Customs officers though OK?

    Thanks for your concern KamiKazi,the weather is lovely up here in gods country,as for customs "officers" thats no worry for me,I still hold an NI licence and the car is insured and taxed under my other address there ;)


  • #174
    TRYITNC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭TRYITNC


    Stekelly wrote: »
    The only reason there's Donegal vs anyone is because the people of donegal were happy to sit back and go about their day breaking the law while the rest of the country was paying vrt, it's only now that it's your turn to jointhe rest of us that there's uroar in the north west.
    Victimised? Give me a ****ing break. You've been having it easy, justbecause the law is now being applied to you equally doesn't mean your being victimised.

    having it easy? what,paying tax for better infrastructure for dublin? step outside of the pale and into the real world


  • #175
    ryanstewart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭ryanstewart


    Stekelly wrote: »
    The only reason there's Donegal vs anyone is because the people of donegal were happy to sit back and go about their day breaking the law while the rest of the country was paying vrt, it's only now that it's your turn to jointhe rest of us that there's uroar in the north west.
    Victimised? Give me a ****ing break. You've been having it easy, justbecause the law is now being applied to you equally doesn't mean your being victimised.

    And here we go again...you think VRT is a "new" issue? It's been a thorn in everyone's side since it was brought in! It's a rip-off tax and it doesn't just affect Donegal...just now there's a bit of attention on the issue which happens to be coming from Donegal, you can sit back and point the finger? Is that why the Irish Drivers Association has 20000 members nationwide giving out about VRT. What are you so worried about with VRT being abolished? And if Donegal has the highest level of infringements, how is it that this county has the third highest VRT PAYMENTS in country, would this not suggest a high level of compliance? Whether you pay VRT or not, it's still an unfair tax.


  • #176
    thethedev
    Closed Accounts Posts: 300 ✭✭thethedev


    So just before this turns into another culchies V Jackeens debate.

    VRT is not illegal. They are not charging you to bring the car in, it is a tax to REGISTER IT. Big difference. You can buy as many cars in the North as you like and never pay a penny on tax. But to drive it on a public road it has to be registered and thats what you're taxed for.

    Thats why its legal. The free movement of goods is still taking place.

    VRT is a good thing. It is helping to stop dealers in Ireland going bust. Particularly second hand dealers. Do we really need another few thousand unemployed?
    If you abolish VRT, then people will just nip across the border for their next car taking money out of the state. Again, is that what we need right now?

    I'm all for spending money in this country, but if it was cheaper to go up North to buy a car, then I would and so would most people no matter how patriotic they were, money talks.

    I'm in agreement that the way it is charged is grossly unfair though. But I thought people didn't want the EU intervening in how this country is run? A set price for a vehicle of any age or specifications would be much more ideal. But it has to remain high enough so that buying in the UK still doesn't come cheaper.


  • #177
    ryanstewart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭ryanstewart


    thethedev wrote: »
    So just before this turns into another culchies V Jackeens debate.

    VRT is not illegal. They are not charging you to bring the car in, it is a tax to REGISTER IT. Big difference. You can buy as many cars in the North as you like and never pay a penny on tax. But to drive it on a public road it has to be registered and thats what you're taxed for.

    Thats why its legal. The free movement of goods is still taking place.

    VRT is a good thing. It is helping to stop dealers in Ireland going bust. Particularly second hand dealers. Do we really need another few thousand unemployed?
    If you abolish VRT, then people will just nip across the border for their next car taking money out of the state. Again, is that what we need right now?

    I'm all for spending money in this country, but if it was cheaper to go up North to buy a car, then I would and so would most people no matter how patriotic they were, money talks.

    I'm in agreement that the way it is charged is grossly unfair though. But I thought people didn't want the EU intervening in how this country is run? A set price for a vehicle of any age or specifications would be much more ideal. But it has to remain high enough so that buying in the UK still doesn't come cheaper.

    Have a look at the proposal on the facebook discussion page. I think it's posted earlier on here too. You'll see why it's not a good thing for the motor industry - SIMI are calling for it to go, as are the AA, as are the Irish drivers association, and the industry itself commissioned the bacon report which concluded the same. All the links are on the page, and if it does go, it will stimulate the industry in the south, putting prices on par with the north.


  • #178
    R.O.R
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,699 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    ryanstewart wrote: »
    Have a look at the proposal on the facebook discussion page. I think it's posted earlier on here too. You'll see why it's not a good thing for the motor industry - SIMI are calling for it to go, as are the AA, as are the Irish drivers association, and the industry itself commissioned the bacon report which concluded the same. All the links are on the page, and if it does go, it will stimulate further decimatethe industry in the south, putting prices on par with the north.

    FYP :rolleyes:


  • #179
    Gophur
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭Gophur


    TRYITNC wrote: »
    Do I detect jealousy in your post? .........

    No.

    TRYITNC wrote: »
    ............ you would too if you lived there..............

    I do and I do!
    TRYITNC wrote: »
    .................get real!

    The debate is about illegality, not about choice. I pay my taxes, loads of taxes, and I expect all my fellow residents to do the same. We should all be subject to the same rules.



    Looking at mywheels.ie statistics for used vehicle imports shows a startling number of imports into Donegal, so wither a lot of people are law-abiding or a lot of people have been caught.


  • #180
    ryanstewart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭ryanstewart


    http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2005/09/25/story8163.asp

    They have been saying it for years, yet you seem to know more?


  • Advertisement
  • #181
    ryanstewart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭ryanstewart


    Gophur wrote: »
    No.


    The debate is about illegality, not about choice. I pay my taxes, loads of taxes, and I expect all my fellow residents to do the same. We should all be subject to the same rules.

    Looking at mywheels.ie statistics for used vehicle imports shows a startling number of imports into Donegal, so wither a lot of people are law-abiding or a lot of people have been caught.

    It's about an awful lot more than that...


  • #182
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    ryanstewart wrote: »
    Have a look at the proposal on the facebook discussion page. .

    The facebook page where I asked for links to the basics of what your campaign seems to be running on ? Big flashy headline proclaiming VRT i sillegal but no actual proof, but sure it's all ok because to paraphrase the response I got from one of you supporters "what does it matter of it's actually illegal"

    Also the links to the fines Ireland are supposed to be paying every year never materialised. It's a good couple of weeks since I asked about these things.


  • #183
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    -Chris- wrote: »
    Can we keep on-topic as to whether VRT should be abolished rather than turning this into a personal/inter-county debate?


    This warning was given earlier in the thread, and eoin's posed on this as well.

    Again, let's move it away from us vs them and focus on VRT and whether it should be abolished.

    Last warning - next person who posts negatively about "us versus them" gets banned for a week.


  • #184
    Fracture
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭Fracture


    Stekelly wrote: »
    The only reason there's Donegal vs anyone is because the people of donegal were happy to sit back and go about their day breaking the law while the rest of the country was paying vrt, it's only now that it's your turn to jointhe rest of us that there's uroar in the north west.
    Victimised? Give me a ****ing break. You've been having it easy, justbecause the law is now being applied to you equally doesn't mean your being victimised.

    Are you serious? get a clue m8, seriously, you dont know what your talking about, customs have been hassling people in the border countys for as long as i can remember. I go down to wexford and galway alot and know ALOT of people who are driving uk reg cars, all of which have never even seen a bloody customs officer. Its happening all over the country, but its only getting properly enforced in the border countys.
    I've paid my VRT, I dont agree with it and id love to see it abolished, the thing that made all this become a hot topic is that they customs officer are acting like the maffia + VRT is highly over priced, you think people would care if the prices were affordable? They are nothing short of a joke.
    I was thinking about buying a 03 Jeep 4x4 in the north, at the time it was priced at 5000stg, obviously before id decided to make a decision i had a look at how much it would cost to clear the thing out, and to my supprise it was 7800 euro, wtf? Then on top of it i have to tax it aswell.

    Anyway, stekelly, whats with this chip on your shoulder? you seem really angry, they way you are talking to people on here is over the top, seems to me your a hothead but why?

    Donegal is the "forgotton county", the roads up here are an absolute joke, we pay or tax like everyone else and we get treated like dirt. I love being Irish, but seriously listening to people like you pisses me off and to be honest id rather donegal joined the uk or else became an independant state, atleast we might see some of our tax getting put to good use.


  • #185
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Fracture wrote: »
    , customs have been hassling people in the border countys for as long as i can remember..

    How can you hassle people that are obeying the law? They wont be pulling anyone over thats driving an Irish reg car with tax and insurance.

    Fracture wrote: »



    Donegal is the "forgotton county", the roads up here are an absolute joke, we pay or tax like everyone else and we get treated like dirt. I love being Irish, but seriously listening to people like you pisses me off and to be honest id rather donegal joined the uk or else became an independant state, atleast we might see some of our tax getting put to good use.

    Theres no direct tax that goes to roads.

    You need to be talking to your councillors about roads, thats what the council is for, not moaning about how the government in Dublin is ignoring you.

    Fracture wrote: »
    Anyway, stekelly, whats with this chip on your shoulder? you seem really angry, they way you are talking to people on here is over the top, seems to me your a hothead but why?.

    What chip? My only issue is with people not paying their way.

    Campagins using lies and tabloidy headlines to draw in gullible "supporters"are not going to change anything.
    Fracture wrote: »
    I was thinking about buying a 03 Jeep 4x4 in the north, at the time it was priced at 5000stg, obviously before id decided to make a decision i had a look at how much it would cost to clear the thing out, and to my supprise it was 7800 euro, wtf? Then on top of it i have to tax it aswell.
    .

    How much would it cost to buy it here?

    and what do you mean "on top of that aswell" , it's not like theres a special motor tax just for imported cars, you pay the same as everyone else.


  • #186
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    Fracture wrote: »
    to be honest id rather donegal joined the uk
    Why don't you petition for that? The UK has no VRT, has better roads (esp NI), doesn't have a punitive motor tax system, and has many other benefits for the motorist. I think that's a more realistic option than getting VRT abolished.

    Simple maths show that the amount of VRT being collected by the state currently probably doesn't even pay the social welfare bill for a single county.

    The only way VRT will be dropped will be if it's ineffective and another tax can be found to replace it that will raise even more money. That won't be a fuel tax as it'll encourage border hopping.


  • Advertisement
  • #187
    Eoin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,257 ✭✭✭✭Eoin


    That's for another thread in another forum please.


  • #188
    Gophur
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭Gophur


    If the roads in DL are as bad as they say, why bother buying a car at all?


  • #189
    Fracture
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭Fracture


    Gophur wrote: »
    If the roads in DL are as bad as they say, why bother buying a car at all?

    better off with a hover craft m8 haha


  • #190
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    eoin wrote: »
    That's for another thread in another forum please.

    It's not really, it's motoring related. The UK is definitely the better country for the motorist, and the US is better than the UK... and so on.


  • #191
    evolutionqy7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,277 ✭✭✭evolutionqy7


    Vertakill wrote: »
    As if a Facebook group is going to make any difference.

    i know one of them did :) started campaign on building a cinema in roscommon town...now apprently their redesigning one appartment of an industrial shopping centres to change into multiplex cinema :)

    on my opinion it shouldnt be completely abolished...there should be a certain tax put on it but not at the price it is now! its just stupid...


  • Advertisement
  • #192
    Fracture
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭Fracture


    Stekelly wrote: »
    How can you hassle people that are obeying the law? They wont be pulling anyone over thats driving an Irish reg car with tax and insurance.

    Pulling people over is not the problem i have with them, its the way they do it and they way speak to and treat people.



    Stekelly wrote: »
    Theres no direct tax that goes to roads.

    You need to be talking to your councillors about roads, thats what the council is for, not moaning about how the government in Dublin is ignoring you.

    What you think people up here dont talk to our councillors? There is always "limited funding" given to places for roads etc, ours is just alot less than dublin. Im not having a dublin v donegal arguement, but when you see the roads up here compared to roads in dublin there is a shocking difference.



    Stekelly wrote: »
    What chip? My only issue is with people not paying their way.

    People do pay their way, i certainly pay my way (not that you said i didnt or anything), the amount of money made by VRT in Donegal shows that people are paying their way, all your posts come across to me as if your very angry.
    Stekelly wrote: »
    Campagins using lies and tabloidy headlines to draw in gullible "supporters"are not going to change anything.

    You make it sound like its all a conspiracy theory or something, people dont have a right to argue against something now?

    Stekelly wrote: »
    How much would it cost to buy it here?

    I cant remember, it was over 2 years ago. I do remember checking it on autotrader.ie at the time and remember that the VRT system had a value on it of something like 13000 and auto trader had a value of something like 8000 on that jeep. couldnt afford either at the end up, i was only enquiring anyway so it didnt matter.
    Stekelly wrote: »
    and what do you mean "on top of that aswell" , it's not like theres a special motor tax just for imported cars, you pay the same as everyone else.

    What i mean by "on top of that aswell" is that if i bought the car in the north, then paid the vrt i would still have to fork out hundreds on tax, so overall it would cost a small fortune.

    Again, if the VRT was at a resonable price there really wouldnt be much moaning about this topic.


  • #193
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Fracture wrote: »
    You make it sound like its all a conspiracy theory or something, people dont have a right to argue against something now?



    .

    The title is "Vrt is illegal". It's not.

    It's also claimed that Irland is fined every year because of VRT, yet the campaign can't show any evidence of this.

    I dont need conspiracy theories , the facts are all there provided by the people running the campaign.
    Fracture wrote: »


    What i mean by "on top of that aswell" is that if i bought the car in the north, then paid the vrt i would still have to fork out hundreds on tax, so overall it would cost a small fortune.
    .

    But if you bought the car here for the same price, you'd till have to pay the same tax.


  • #194
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    As I understand it Ireland has a derogation re VRT. I've never heard of a fine being paid.Any evidence?


  • #195
    Fracture
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭Fracture


    Stekelly wrote: »
    The title is "Vrt is illegal". It's not.

    You must be right....or are you? The irish drivers assocition dont seem to agree with you, and im pretty sure you know next to nothing compared to these guys, since you seem to be showing no evidence yourself on how it is legal.

    http://www.irishdrivers.org/dates-events/legal-challenge-to-vrt/
    Stekelly wrote: »
    It's also claimed that Irland is fined every year because of VRT, yet the campaign can't show any evidence of this.
    Yeh, maybe your right. So what? You ever get anything wrong?
    Stekelly wrote: »
    I dont need conspiracy theories , the facts are all there provided by the people running the campaign.

    If the facts are all there then what are you taking all this to heart for?


    Stekelly wrote: »
    But if you bought the car here for the same price, you'd till have to pay the same tax.
    The TAX i dont mind paying, if you have a car you pay tax, thats a given.


  • #196
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Fracture wrote: »
    You must be right....or are you? The irish drivers assocition dont seem to agree with you, and im pretty sure you know next to nothing compared to these guys, since you seem to be showing no evidence yourself on how it is legal.

    http://www.irishdrivers.org/dates-events/legal-challenge-to-vrt/ .

    I assume you hav'nt read the thread, have a look at post 45. Theres a link there where the EU says it's legal, in as many words.

    Plus, if it was illegal, why have the EU done nothign about it for 20 odd years?
    Fracture wrote: »
    Yeh, maybe your right. So what? You ever get anything wrong?

    .

    They ddnt just get it wrong. They are repeating it and using it as a point to futher their campaign. I repeatedly asked about it. At first I was told to go find my own source , since then I've been ignored. Both on the facebook page and here.

    Fracture wrote: »


    If the facts are all there then what are you taking all this to heart for?



    To quote your good self "people dont have a right to argue against something now?"


  • #197
    Eoin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,257 ✭✭✭✭Eoin


    Fracture wrote: »
    You must be right....or are you? The irish drivers assocition dont seem to agree with you, and im pretty sure you know next to nothing compared to these guys, since you seem to be showing no evidence yourself on how it is legal.

    Putting up a link saying some organisation "believes" it's illegal doesn't make it illegal. I have posted a link from the EU's own website in this thread here that says countries are allowed charge VRT.


  • #198
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    Fracture wrote: »
    I was thinking about buying a 03 Jeep 4x4 in the north, at the time it was priced at 5000stg, obviously before id decided to make a decision i had a look at how much it would cost to clear the thing out, and to my supprise it was 7800 euro, wtf?
    I was thinking of buying a car, €6000 would land it, but the VRT is another €4000. That's tough for me, but I'll just do something else.

    The last car I bought in the UK was 4 years old, cost me €7400 and the VRT was only €380. You win some you lose some


  • #199
    ryanstewart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭ryanstewart


    Stekelly wrote: »
    I assume you hav'nt read the thread, have a look at post 45. Theres a link there where the EU says it's legal, in as many words.

    Plus, if it was illegal, why have the EU done nothign about it for 20 odd years?

    To quote your good self "people dont have a right to argue against something now?"

    As you'll see earlier in this thread, and I've said so on the facebook page since, I agree with some of what the Irish Drivers Assoc says, not all of it, and where I'm happy to admit it if I was wrong, it seems some people can only pick on a small point and stick to it like glue - what I've since said, and openly retracted what I had said, is that I believe it is when it's enforced it becomes illegal - it's a completely unfair tax, it goes against our own constitution (right to freely own goods, earn a living, freedom of movement, right to privacy), it's double taxation, the vehicle seizures in themselves are illegal as the amount seized is not proportional to the value of the money owed, it is also an anti-competitive monopoly, and price fixing within the Irish car industry is illegal - which is a self-serving practise as it serves as a barrier to trade with other EU countries. The way fines are handed down is illegal, the means in which they gather information to enforce it is illegal. I have also pointed out that other EU countries have similar systems in place - it doesn't make them right either. The commission found against Finland originally, and then in the fallout afterwards have stepped back from the issue claiming it's a national tax which they don't like. So yes, I still believe it's illegal, just because the EU haven't the nuts to enforce their own policies, doesn't make you right either.

    As for tabloidism in the name, think back to the government claiming yes to lisbon, yes to jobs etc. - where has that gone? At least have the guts yourself to admit you might be wrong on this argument yourself, and accept that it is unjust what's going on. I've learned a lot since I started this campaign, and yes mistakes have been made, and will continue to be made, but at the end of the day, it's an unjust tax, it's about time people spoke out about it, and for reasons right or wrong, it's getting talked about and public support is strongly against VRT, so if you are "happy" to pay your tax, then do so, but you don't have to agree with it even if you do pay it. What the hell is your problem??


  • #200
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    ryanstewart wrote: »
    As you'll see earlier in this thread, and I've said so on the facebook page since, I agree with some of what the Irish Drivers Assoc says, not all of it, and where I'm happy to admit it if I was wrong, it seems some people can only pick on a small point and stick to it like glue - what I've since said, and openly retracted what I had said, is that I believe it is when it's enforced it becomes illegal - it's a completely unfair tax, it goes against our own constitution (right to freely own goods, earn a living, freedom of movement, right to privacy), it's double taxation, the vehicle seizures in themselves are illegal as the amount seized is not proportional to the value of the money owed, it is also an anti-competitive monopoly, and price fixing within the Irish car industry is illegal - remember it's SIMI who set the prices for revenue - unchallenged, which is a self-serving practise as it serves as a barrier to trade with other EU countries. The way fines are handed down is illegal, the means in which they gather information to enforce it is illegal. I have also pointed out that other EU countries have similar systems in place - it doesn't make them right either. The commission found against Finland originally, and then in the fallout afterwards have stepped back from the issue claiming it's a national tax which they don't like. So yes, I still believe it's illegal, just because the EU haven't the nuts to enforce their own policies, doesn't make you right either.

    As for tabloidism in the name, think back to the government claiming yes to lisbon, yes to jobs etc. - where has that gone? At least have the guts yourself to admit you might be wrong on this argument yourself, and accept that it is unjust what's going on. I've learned a lot since I started this campaign, and yes mistakes have been made, and will continue to be made, but at the end of the day, it's an unjust tax, it's about time people spoke out about it, and for reasons right or wrong, it's getting talked about and public support is strongly against VRT, so if you are "happy" to pay your tax, then do so, but you don't have to agree with it even if you do pay it. What the hell is your problem??

    So you admit it's wrong but the name hasnt changed? YOur now embracing the tabloidism of it whereas last wek you tried to turn it on me when I said it was tabloidism and said it was me that was being like that.

    A case being throw out for du process not being followed does not mean that the fines are illegal or the way the informaion is gathered is illegal, it means that in that case something was done wrong.

    Are you saying it's illegalfor Gards ad/or customs officers to watch cars illegally drive on the pubic roads and use that information to prosectute offenders? Why would that only apply to VRT if so?



    How does it affect your right to privacy? (then explain how your right to privacy works when your in public)

    How does it affect your right to own goods? You can own your foreign reg'd car all you like, you just can't use it on the public road legally.I can legally own a set of kitchen knives, I wont be long getting picked up walking down the street waving them around, or can I now tell the gards, on your authority, that they can sod off?


    How does it affect your right to earn a living?


    BTW, how many of these "rights" are actual rights granted under the constitution? (genuine question)

    How does it affect your right to movement? People have legs, can freely walk , run, use bicycles etc. Does motor tax and having to pay for petrol and servicing and parts to keep your car going deny you your rights too?


  • #201
    ryanstewart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭ryanstewart


    Stekelly wrote: »
    So you admit it's wrong but the name hasnt changed? YOur now embracing the tabloidism of it whereas last wek you tried to turn it on me when I said it was tabloidism and said it was me that was being like that.

    A case being throw out for du process not being followed does not mean that the fines are illegal or the way the informaion is gathered is illegal, it means that in that case something was done wrong.

    Are you saying it's illegalfor Gards ad/or customs officers to watch cars illegally drive on the pubic roads and use that information to prosectute offenders? Why would that only apply to VRT if so?



    How does it affect your right to privacy? (then explain how your right to privacy works when your in public)

    How does it affect your right to own goods? You can own your foreign reg'd car all you like, you just can't use it on the public road legally.I can legally own a set of kitchen knives, I wont be long getting picked up walking down the street waving them around, or can I now tell the gards, on your authority, that they can sod off?


    How does it affect your right to earn a living?


    BTW, how many of these "rights" are actual rights granted under the constitution? (genuine question)

    How does it affect your right to movement? People have legs, can freely walk , run, use bicycles etc. Does motor tax and having to pay for petrol and servicing and parts to keep your car going deny you your rights too?

    Article 43

    2° The State accordingly guarantees to pass no law attempting to abolish the right of private ownership or the general right to transfer, bequeath, and inherit property.

    That's just one I can find at short notice - would this not be a direct contradiction; others include in the review of the Finance Act regarding privacy and surveillance, and bear in mind it's not on public roads that this takes place, it's when they are using surveillance at night to record registrations at private homes, challenging people in their homes regarding ownership, which is only permitted where "The Criminal Justice (Surveillance) Act 2009 makes provision for use of surveillance by Revenue in respect of suspected arrestable offences (offences carrying a penalty of 5 years or more) under customs and taxes legislation, e.g. cases of serious evasion of customs duty, excise duty, VAT fraud, oil laundering and cigarette and drug smuggling." From Revenue annual report - No mention of VRT, and that doesn't carry 5 years sentence! When you look out your window and have neighbours phoning the cops because of suspicious activity, happening every night on your own doorstep, you'll understand.

    As far as earning a living, I know of three people who have lost their jobs as their cars were seized and they couldn't afford the fine to release them. I have previously paid VRT myself, but this time I can't afford it, due to having to take a huge pay cut to keep working - I now only earn just above minimum wage - but without going down the us v them thing - again! - that's another story for another thread;) and the Finnish case was not down to mistakes and due process.

    Your free to disagree with what anyone says about VRT - illegal, unfair, unjust, etc, but there's more to it than just proving a point.


  • Advertisement
This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement