M11 - Arklow to Rathnew

Amtmann · 01-12-2010 4:32pm

Bullseye1 wrote: »

If started next year i would say 2-3 years max.

It could be done in 1.5 years if the contractor wanted. Thirteen kilometres of the M8 between Cahir and Cashel were delivered between May '06 to October '07. Arklow-Rathnew is a similar length with no bogs in the vicinity as far as I know.

Bullseye1 · 01-12-2010 4:33pm

Absolutely. The CPO is completed as far as I am aware and the council themselves have had a number of houses demolished. So I think its a straight forward civil works contract.

L1011 · 01-12-2010 7:19pm

Land's bought, fenced and cleared in its entirity.

The only thing I could see that could delay it would be any work possibly required to divert roads off the path of the new one at each end (like what happened at the southern end of the M3)

Chris_5339762 · 01-12-2010 8:01pm

Newlands is ready to go too, theres a ton of space on the south of the carriageway to put traffic while its built.

lottpaul · 01-12-2010 8:02pm

Furet wrote: »

It could be done in 1.5 years if the contractor wanted. Thirteen kilometres of the M8 between Cahir and Cashel were delivered between May '06 to October '07. Arklow-Rathnew is a similar length with no bogs in the vicinity as far as I know.

There is a section of about 3km just to the north of Jack Whites Cross that passes over very boggy land and a small river but it's relatively small and hopefully will not present any problems. The local townland is called Togher (Tóchar in Irish means a causeway over a bog etc, so it's obviously not a new feature

)
Otherwise the entire route has been fenced off, paid for, surveyed, sprayed etc for years now and is absolutely ready.

lottpaul · 18-12-2010 11:40am

Two large ESB pylons are being built on either side of the N11 midway between The Tap and Jack Whites cross. Workers on site say they are to raise the ESB wires to a height to cross the new M11 overbridge at that junction and that when the job is done - wires connected etc - the contract etc for the M11 will be granted and work started. Seems these pylons are the only thing delaying the start. This will require a full closure of the N11 for at least a day - Wicklow Co Co are mentioning January 15th?
Thing is, they then only have until March 1st (?) to start clearance work - nesting season etc - so theres a very tight schedule for a 2011 start.

L1011 · 18-12-2010 8:06pm

There should be no hedge-impacting clearance work to be done, the land was cleared to grass and fenced ages ago.

Wild Bill · 18-12-2010 10:12pm

In fact about six years ago!

lottpaul · 18-12-2010 10:22pm

While talking to the workmen it was they who mentioned the 1st March date - I know it was all cleared years ago and should be ready - unless there's been regrowth etc?
I just don't want there to be another "excuse" for delays and I'm hoping it starts asap. Am sick and tired of queues at the Beehive and of traffic having to take crazy risks to cross the road at every junction from there to Scratnagh.

Wild Bill · 18-12-2010 11:41pm

Waiting for Godot........:mad:

jd · 19-12-2010 12:14am

Wild Bill wrote: »

Waiting for Godot........:mad:

sent an email a few days ago

from JD
sender time Sent at 15:17 (UTC). Current time there: 23:12. ✆
to xxx@nra.ie
date 16 December 2010 15:17
subject Re: FW: Rathnew-Arklow
mailed-by gmail.com
hide details 16 Dec (2 days ago)
Hi xxx
I note the government stated that it wants the Newlands Cross/N11 PPP to proceed. Is there any further update on the state of the tender process?
thanks
JD

jd · 20-12-2010 7:42pm

and a reply

It is anticipated that the N11 Arklow to Rathnew road improvement scheme/ N7 Newlands Cross, which is being delivered under the PPP mechanism, will commence construction in Quarter 2, 2011 subject to the availability of funding and approval being granted by the Department of Finance.

Skid · 20-12-2010 8:29pm

subject to the availability of funding and approval being granted by the Department of Finance.

I'm concerned by this part.

Has Jackie Healy-Rea jumped the queue and knocked the N11 start time back yet again?

Wild Bill · 20-12-2010 9:32pm

jd wrote: »

and a reply

That's a three month set-back from what they were saying till recently. :mad:

tomflynn · 22-12-2010 12:55pm

Wild Bill wrote: »

That's a three month set-back from what they were saying till recently. :mad:

Perhaps the turning of the sod will be influenced by the calling of the general election?! ....unfortunately.

Bullseye1 · 23-12-2010 2:35pm

The TD's representing Wicklow have been a disaster. We are talking about one of the most dangerous stretches of road in the country.

D'Peoples Voice · 27-12-2010 6:56pm

tomflynn wrote: »

Perhaps the turning of the sod will be influenced by the calling of the general election?! ....unfortunately.

Not really sure how TDs can affect the decision in any way,
all a TD does is voice his party's priorities in terms of what direction they want the Department to be steered, left wing or ring wing etc
a Minister would not get involved in the day-to-day running of his Department,
such as which road project to start first,
thats why we have exceptionally well paid Permanent Secretaries at each Department.
These Secretaries make the decision and communicate it to the Minister if and when a question may be raised upon it in the Dail (remember nearly all questions have to be pre-submitted to deputies, no on the spot questions) or if the Minister needs to do a press conference.

Just think about the consequences for the country if a Minister, elected by a relatively small few, could pick and choose the projects, you'd have massive opportunity costs borne by the taxpayer over countless projects. It would be akin to state sponsored corruption.

Carawaystick · 27-12-2010 9:34pm

once the small matter of the M7 not paying the workers got sorted by a td from Offally...

jd · 14-01-2011 10:22pm

It's mentioned elsewhere on this forum that the tender for this won't be awarded until April.

nordydan · 27-01-2011 6:14pm

Some preparatory work on the way:

Temporary Road Closure on the N11 County Wicklow Saturday 5th February 2011

The ESB is currently carrying out realignment works on the High Voltage transmission line at Ballyvaltron and Kilmurry South in County Wicklow. These works need to be completed before construction commences on the N11 Rathnew to Arklow Road Improvement Scheme. Wicklow County Council hereby gives notice that due to the ESB realignment works, which involves a crossing of the N11 at Ballyvaltron (south of Wicklow Town), it will be necessary to divert traffic onto the adjoining Regional and Local Road network on Saturday 5th February 2011. A temporary road closure will be in place along a section of the N11 between the Beehive (R751/L1113) junction and the Jack White’s (R773/L5163) junction. Diversion routes as indicated on the attached map will be in place for both northbound and southbound traffic between the hours of 9:00 am and 6:00 pm and these routes will be signposted.
Alternatively, to avoid possible delays on the N11 route, motorists are advised to use the N7/M7/M9/N80 routes if travelling between Dublin and Wexford.
Regular updates in the period up to and including the diversion will be available on Local and National Radio stations. For further information visit the Wicklow County Council website at www.wicklowcoco.ie or contact their Road Design Office at 0404-64280/1.
These works may be cancelled at short notice due to safety reasons arising from severe weather conditions.
Please click here to view a map of diversion routes.

lottpaul · 27-01-2011 7:46pm

Good to see any bit of progress - however slow.

The proposed diversion for northbound traffic is an incredibly twisting and narrow road for HGVs especially. I can't believe they are going to send all vehicles on this road. If anyone intends to travel on the 5th Feb I would seriously suggest they take another route completely - e.g leave the M11 at Arklow south and travel via Avoca and Rathdrum.
The southbound diversion is a better road but involves going through the centre of Wicklow town and will cause long delays.

(Talking to a local farmer who had been speaking to a worker/official on the site the contract date is still set for April/May)

clon · 11-02-2011 4:21pm

taken from transport committee last Dec. 2010.

Mr. Fred Barry: Okay. A request for approval of the N11 PPP is with the Department of Finance. All PPP tenders and contracts are subject to specific approval by the Department of Finance these days. We have no reason to believe there is a problem in this case. It is still with the Department. After that has been done, we will need to close on the contact, which involves the funders - the banks - being there on the day. The requirement that the banks be there on the day applies to all of these consultations until the very last moment. We expect to proceed to sign that deal in March 2011. I wish to add the caveat that we have not yet cleared all the internal hurdles. Having said that, we are not aware of any objections to it internally. It simply has not been given the go-ahead.

link

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/TRJ/2010/12/01/00005.asp

L1011 · 11-02-2011 7:35pm

Why do I have a feeling we'll still be waiting in summer?

This is one scheme that personally affects me due to where my partner lives - I have to go through that bloody forest far too often for my liking. Destroys journey times to what would otherwise not be that far away (south of Gorey)

jd · 21-02-2011 1:33pm

jd wrote: »

I've sent a query in to the NRA (email) - no reply as of yet. Hope nothing is up with the PPP funding...

Looks like I was right in October
http://www.sbpost.ie/news/ireland/300-million-project-delayed-over-sovereign-debt-worries-54666.html

Sponge Bob · 25-02-2011 8:08pm

The Connacht Tribune confirms that Balfour Beatty have pulled out completely from the N17/N18 project. Given the amount of timewasting involved I trust they have been dropped from the N11 project too.

Wild Bill · 26-02-2011 8:41am

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Given the amount of timewasting involved I trust they have been dropped from the N11 project too.

But who's wasting time? Balfour Beatty or the Dept of Finance?

Sponge Bob · 27-02-2011 7:21pm

spacetweek · 03-03-2011 1:46pm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

BB

Can they not be punished? Is the contract not signed? This really won't do.

Amtmann · 06-04-2011 1:43pm

A CAR was knocked into the wall of Jack White’s Pub on the N11 in Co Wicklow yesterday in a three- car crash. Two men were taken to hospital.

A bypass for the accident black spot is one of a number of public-private partnerships that have been stalled due to the State’s financial position.
The 19km N11 link road from the Arklow to Rathnew bypasses has been the scene of more than 16 deaths over as many years.

In the immediate vicinity of Jack White’s Cross, where yesterday’s crash occurred, there are four memorial stones to those who have been killed on this section of the road.

Witnesses said yesterday’s crash happened after a Volkswagen Polo car travelling southbound on the N11 left the road at about 11.45am.

They said the car travelled into the car park of Jack White’s pub striking two other cars, an Audi A4 and a Toyota Avensis estate, pushing the Toyota against the wall of the pub itself.

The Toyota struck the wall of the pub within metres of the front door.
According to witnesses, a number of people were walking around the car park at the time.

Two ambulances rushed to the scene along with two units of the Co Wicklow fire brigade, one of which was equipped with specialist cutting equipment.

Gardaí closed one lane of the N11 for a number of hours. The two male drivers injured in the crash were taken to hospital where their injuries were said not to be life threatening.

It is thought that the Audi was unoccupied at the time of the crash.
The roadway is the last remaining single-carriageway stretch of the N11 in Co Wicklow.

Compulsory purchase orders for the land required to upgrade the road to dual carriageway status were confirmed by An Bord Pleanála in January 2005, at which time Wicklow County Council said that it was ready to implement the scheme.

However, construction funding failed to appear in the National Roads Authority allocations over successive years.

Late last year the roads authority said the scheme had been rolled into a public-private partnership project, which included work on Newlands Cross in Co Dublin and which would go to tender this year.

Just last week, however, it was revealed that uncertainty surrounding Ireland’s ability to secure private finance for infrastructure, given the economic situation, had again delayed the project.

Last night the National Roads Authority said the scheme was dependent on private finance and would be dependent on the attitude of the international financial markets.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0406/1224294011298.html

nordydan · 17-04-2011 9:27pm

Some developments here on the Wicklow Co Co website, not unexpected.
The rugby club LILO's at Johnstown, outside Arklow, are to be stopped up in advance of the new N11 scheme. Only realistic decision:

Link 1
Link 2

Proposed Extinguishment of Section of the Public Right of Way at Johnstown North, Arklow, Co. Wicklow.

Wicklow County Council proposes that the following Section of Public Right of way shall be extinguished: -
The Section of the Public Right of Way from the access along the N11 north bound carriageway to the local road known locally as “Rugby Club Road” in the townland of Johnstown North, Arklow, Co. Wicklow (Length 32.06m and area 0.0531 Hectares (0.1312 Acres) approximately, Area marked NB1 to NB2 on Map N11/RARIS/ROW-2)
An alternative route for this Section of the Right of Way will be provided at the over bridge and grade separated junction that exists at Junction 20 Arklow, Co. Wicklow, Drawing N11/RARIS/ROW-4.
Maps indicating the above mentioned right of way and the alternative route will be available for inspection during normal office hours Monday to Friday for a 30 day period commencing on the 11th day of April 2011 and terminating on the 11th day of May 2011 (both dates inclusive) at the following locations:
Wicklow County Council, County Buildings, Station Road, Wicklow, County Wicklow,

Arklow Town Council, Avoca River House, Bridgewater Centre, Arklow, County Wicklow.

Arklow Branch Library, St Mary’s Road, Arklow, County Wicklow.

Drawings

Extinguishment of the right of way - 748kb
Alternative Route - 521kb
Objections or representations regarding the proposed extinguishment of the above mentioned Section of Right of Way must be received in writing by the A/Senior Executive Officer, Transportation and Roads Infrastructure, on or before 12.00 noon on Wednesday 25th May 2011.
Objections / representations should be clearly marked, ‘Closure of Section of Public Right of Way at Johnstown North’. In making their objections/representation an individual may request an oral hearing in order that they may state their case.
Theresa O’Brien,
A/Senior Executive Officer
Wicklow County Council,
County Buildings,
Wicklow.
Telephone: 0404-20100
Fax: 0404: 20101
E-mail: roadtran@wicklowcoco.ie

Proposed Extinguishment of Section of the Public Right of Way at Johnstown North and Johnstown South, Arklow, Co. Wicklow.

Wicklow County Council proposes that the following Section of Public Right of way shall be extinguished: -
The Section of the Public Right of Way from the access along the N11 south bound carriageway to the local road L95115 within the townland of Johnstown North and Johnstown South, Arklow, Co. Wicklow (Length 39.67m and area 0.0529 Hectares (0.1308 Acres) approximately, Area marked SB1 to SB2 on Map N11/RARIS/ROW-1)
An alternative route for this Section of the Right of Way will be provided at the overbridge and grade separated junction that exists at Junction 20 Arklow, Co. Wicklow, Drawing N11/RARIS/ROW-3

Drawings

Extinguishment of the right of way - 738kb
Alternative Route - 521kb

PoolDude · 18-04-2011 9:02am

Any sign of the contract being awarded or a start date?

jd · 18-04-2011 11:03am

PoolDude wrote: »

Any sign of the contract being awarded or a start date?

I think Varadkar said no decisions on capital expenditure will be made until September. I'm not sure how the funding sides of the two competing PPP consortia are holding up either..

Sponge Bob · 18-04-2011 11:27am

No PPP funds. However as a DB contract this one would be the cheapest MIU apart from the N4 downs separation.

1. The land is bought and fenced. Most important that.
2. It is a shortish stretch, most MIU projects are 25km plus but not this one.
3. The terrain is not too onerous...no mega bog thank the phuck:)
4. Deaths and serious accidents are still a regular occurence along the Jack White section and the cost of this ongoing carnage can be capitalised into the Cost/Benefit. Gort - Galway is nowhere near as dangerous a section on that measure.
5. It is part of a Euroroute and there is a long term international policy objective to complete Larne- Rosslare.

If the locals have any cop they can leverage all that.

PseudoFamous · 18-04-2011 1:13pm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

If the locals have any cop they can leverage all that.

I feel that the safety aspect is all that should need leverage. Traffic has been decreasing, but this is probably due more to unemployment than anything. Soon as employment begins again, this will probably shoot back up. Also note the massive snowfall in December last probably attributed to a sudden fall of 5000 motorists a day
In 2008, the AADT at Jack White's Cross was 20,934, which was a significant 151.7% of the design capacity of 13,800
In 2009, AADT fell slightly to 20,357, which is still 147.5% of the capacity
In 2010, it fell yet again to 19,773, 143.2% of capacity
URL="http://nraextra.nra.ie/CurrentTrafficCounterData/html/N11-17.htm"]Source[/URL.

Coupling that with the fact that (if Northbound from Jack White's) motorists need to cross a lane of oncoming traffic, AND get up to speed, while merging with another lane, and you have a miracle that we don't see more accidents. I'm surprised that common sense would allow this road remain open without being upgraded. Granted, probably preaching to a choir here, so you could near enough disregard the majority of this post.

iwo · 18-04-2011 1:21pm

Sorry guys but I'm confused by now, is this going ahead or not?

Sponge Bob · 18-04-2011 3:12pm

Don't think so. Were the locals a bit clever about it then installing a rolling road block on the imminent "first hot weekend of the year" should make the national media when the dubs get trapped in hot cars as they head for their caravans along the sand dunes. It used to work wonders in the past :cool:

Marcusm · 18-04-2011 5:01pm

The Government cannot raise money other than from the dreaded troika. A PPP consortium has zero prospect of raising funding against a shadow tolling (i.e. future Government payments probably less secure than Government debt) arrangement. Don't expect to see this moving ahead. A tolled scheme might have some financing prospects but can't see that applying to each of these schemes.

Bullseye1 · 23-04-2011 9:55am

Another over turned car on the side of the road Thursday morning around 9.00ish. The amount of bad accidents on this stretch of single lane carriageway is mind-blowing. If there is ever a need to complete for a road to be upgraded it's this stretch of road.

jd · 23-04-2011 11:43am

There were tailbacks Good Friday here. A camper van travelling Southbound had pulled into the side of the road (on the Northbound carriage way!) near the Ballinameesda bends.

JupiterKid · 26-04-2011 4:43pm

This stretch of road need upgrading so urgently that these delays are just not funny. This should be absolute priority number 1 for the new government in terms of spending on transport.

Bullseye1 · 05-05-2011 12:40am

The Minister was on the Pat Kenny show this morning and listed this road and two others (i think) as being priorities.

Irish and Proud · 05-05-2011 12:03pm

Bullseye1 wrote: »

The Minister was on the Pat Kenny show this morning and listed this road and two others (i think) as being priorities.

The Radio Interview (scroll down to the first podcast).

The Interview is 34mins in length - about 30mins of that relates to transport!

Regarding Roads:

Repair of Local and Regional Roads as part of jobs initiative to be announced next Tuesday.

The A5 is of matter of agreement between the North and Republic and would be paid for from a different fund - not under Leo's remit.

He wants to see progress on:
N11 A to R and N7 NX PPP
M17/N18 Gort to Tuam PPP
New Ross Bypass PPP
State's PPP difficulties in financing.

Hopes to do N8/N25 Dunkettle Interchange in the course of this government

Some other interesting things - (This is OT):

Leo would not like Aer Lingus to be taken over by Ryanair - I don't think it would be a good thing either - a monopoly is rarely a good thing - he does speak well of Ryanair though and I for one think that Ryanair has had a positive affect overall in Irish air travel. He would like fewer airports and a continued rationalization of our marine ports.

Regarding Public Transport:

Privatization of existing CIE transport is not currently on the agenda, but supports private bus services.

Wants the DART rail link to Airport considered as an option, but didn't speak very highly of it - it would take DART trains away from existing services and wouldn't serve the people of Dublin properly.

Regards!

Murtinho · 05-05-2011 7:16pm

Im actually in 2 minds about whether i want this done or not, of course i'd like a better road without tailbacks (I commute on this stretch) but tbh i'd prefer them to leave it alone rather than have to pay a toll.

Marcusm · 05-05-2011 11:49pm

Personally find it difficult to see how this section or Newands X could be effectively tolled. In any event, is the DC not a completely new road for this section with the old N11 reverting to an R road?

It's fairly irrelevant as a small PPP like this in Ireland is unlikely to receive any positive attention from non Irish investors for a significant number if years. They are only of interest to international investors if priced in Euro and there would have to b a significant FX risk on a potential departure. I don't think this is at all likely but it is another factor which decreases attractiveness especially when other similar opportunities are available outside Ireland. Irish banks are in deleveraging/contraction mode so I don't see them as substantial finders. EIB could provide some but hard to see it going alone.

Wild Bill · 07-05-2011 11:38pm

This is fantasy from Leo. This side of the inevitable debt restructure/default no investor with a brain will get involved in a PPP

(Though as we saw in the property bubble there are lots of investors with no brains....so maybe...who knows? )

Murtinho · 21-05-2011 7:01pm

another crash on it this week, north bound car rear ended by the look of it, just at the last straight bit before the bend where you see the beehive, last wed morning about 8:30, no serious injuries

jd · 13-06-2011 12:11pm

Another crash this morning...

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/crash-blocks-n11-508814.html

13/06/2011 - 11:01:34
The N11 Dublin to Wexford Road is closed in both directions, north of the Arklow Bypass, following a crash between a truck and a car.

Traffic has been diverted via the coast road but two lorries are blocking the road.

Cars and other small vehicles can divert via Red Cross but this route is not suitable for HGVs.

Traffic is very heavy in the area.

Bullseye1 · 27-06-2011 1:22pm

The NRA have left the most dangerous part of the N11 unfinished. We can expect to see much more deaths before this road.

L1011 · 27-06-2011 6:31pm

Bullseye1 wrote: »

The NRA have left the most dangerous part of the N11 unfinished. We can expect to see much more deaths before this road.

The NRA haven't - government have by not authorising funding for it during the YEARS that it has had planning permission and CPOed land.

Its ready to go to construction in the morning - and has been for some time.

jd · 27-06-2011 6:39pm

Got this re arklow/rathnew from the minister

Dear Jd,

The NRA are currently pursuing whether this can get PPP funding. Because of its relatively small size they are somewhat hopeful that it can.

Yours sincerely,

______________________
Leo Varadkar T.D.,
Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport

M11 - Arklow to Rathnew

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