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What would you like the next referendum to legalise abortion or euthanasia?

2456

Comments

  • #52
    Nollog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,507 ✭✭✭Nollog


    We could have a referendum on making a whole new constitution.


  • #53
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,190 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    We didn't but democratic process did. The same process that legalized non procreating unions.

    Non-procreating unions have been legal since men and women have been infertile. Which is forever.


  • #54
    No Voter And Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭No Voter And Proud


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    Non-procreating unions have been legal since men and women have been infertile. Which is forever.

    Now whose nitpicking!


  • #55
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    I would rather our constitution said nothing about abortion. It doesn't need to either legalise or illegalise it.

    I don't believe euthanasia is specifically barred by the constitution, it could be legislated for.


  • #56
    daheff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,904 ✭✭✭daheff


    next referendum about not having any more referendums? or limiting to 2 every term of government???


    Have a pain in my a$$ with the number of referendums we've since maastricht...most mean nothing...why not keep them to a minimum so we only vote on meaningful referendums? It might focus the governments minds a bit more


  • #57
    Madd Finn
    Registered Users Posts: 534 ✭✭✭Madd Finn


    Don't care which one comes first. I'll look forward to voting No in either or both.

    And good way to bring the Church storming back into relevance. ;)


  • #58
    jessiejam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 778 ✭✭✭jessiejam


    smash wrote: »
    I think everyone should have the choice disregarding the circumstances.

    Yes thats what I said.

    Some hospitals now will only do the first scan at 22 weeks (Holles St for example). Maybe it's a catholic thing to stop people aborting a disabled foetus, I don't know. But taking that into consideration I would say that 12 weeks is too early for a cut off.

    In nearly all pregnancies if not all (the odd "I didn't know I was pregnant" women) are detected after about 8-12 weeks (some before and some after that time). Fair enough push it out a little but 22/24 weeks in my book is way too late.


  • #59
    whatismyname
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭whatismyname


    If you have a 'neither' option on the poll, would a 'both' option not be a good idea too?


  • #60
    fattymuatty
    Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭fattymuatty


    I would really like to see a referendum on abortion. There has been signs all the over place saying vote yes to equality yet the women of this country are routinely denied this status. We deserve the right to body autonomy. Everyday there are women suffering because of the eighth amendment, no progressive liberal country as Ireland has patted itself on the back for being over the past few days would allow this to continue.


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  • #61
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    jessiejam wrote: »
    In nearly all pregnancies if not all (the odd "I didn't know I was pregnant" women) are detected after about 8-12 weeks (some before and some after that time). Fair enough push it out a little but 22/24 weeks in my book is way too late.

    Then the hospitals need to get their act in gear so they can detect abnormalities at an earlier stage.


  • #62
    No Voter And Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭No Voter And Proud


    I don't see the need to allow abortion anyway.
    We've got transport to the UK for the unmentionables that would do that to a child, and for the rest of us there's Ireland.


  • #63
    valoren
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,514 ✭✭✭valoren


    Both as soon as possible.

    Repeal the 8th Amendment.

    I look forward to voting Yes to both.


  • #64
    TwoShedsJackson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,438 ✭✭✭TwoShedsJackson


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    Hitler was voted in by a majority too remember. Democracy sometimes fails.

    Oh and, for what it matters, at least where I'm from we respected the institution of marriage. Roscommon - holding the line till the end!

    Godwinning the thread already. And the Nazis got about 35 to 38% of the vote in early 30s elections, not a majority.


  • #65
    Calhoun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    If i was forced to choose i would like to deal with the abortion issue first, but both are issues i would like to vote on.


  • #66
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    I don't see the need to allow abortion anyway.
    We've got transport to the UK for the unmentionables that would do that to a child, and for the rest of us there's Ireland.

    What an utterly daft comment.


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  • #67
    No Voter And Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭No Voter And Proud


    TwoShedsJackson wrote: »
    Godwinning the thread already. And the Nazis got about 35 to 38% of the vote in early 30s elections, not a majority.

    They were elected to power by the will of the masses.

    I'll admit I had to look up that godwin reference.
    smash wrote: »
    What an utterly daft comment.


    Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realise you controlled people's opinion.


  • #68
    Calhoun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    I don't see the need to allow abortion anyway.
    We've got transport to the UK for the unmentionables that would do that to a child, and for the rest of us there's Ireland.

    Yes because people only do it because it impacts with their lifestyle and who needs extra cost right? Has nothing to do with the pregnancy not being viable or a danger to the mother.

    Add on top of this the indignity of having your babies remains shipped home in a box by regular courier.

    So yeah horrible people who would consider such a thing :pac::pac::pac::pac: , My sarcasm detector exploded :(.


  • #69
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    I don't see the need to allow abortion anyway.
    We've got transport to the UK for the unmentionables that would do that to a child, and for the rest of us there's Ireland.
    Let's just keep pretending that the only women who require abortions are evil sluts, so they can just go get the boat.

    Yeah, that sounds like Irish humanitarianism to me.


  • #70
    No Voter And Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭No Voter And Proud


    Calhoun wrote: »
    Yes because people only do it because it impacts with their lifestyle and who needs extra cost right? Has nothing to do with the pregnancy not being viable or a danger to the mother.

    Add on top of this the indignity of having your babies remains shipped home in a box.

    So yeah horrible people who would consider such a thing :pac::pac::pac::pac: , My sarcasm detector exploded :(.

    Pregnancy not being viable and a danger to the mother are both provided for in our existing abortion laws. Not that I agree with them mind. As a practising christian I cannot see how killing any of Gods creations is within my remit.


  • #71
    Madd Finn
    Registered Users Posts: 534 ✭✭✭Madd Finn


    And here's a quick question: I can see how we would need a referendum on abortion. ie to remove the current article in the constitution which talks about the equal right to life of the unborn.

    But what articles currently inhibit euthanasia? And if there are none, how the hell would you phrase one to "allow" it.

    "The state recognises that some people are just too old and too sick to have around any more and, with due deference to the emotions of their next of kin, hereby gives the right to a bunch of civil servants or other state appointees to bump them off quietly"

    Don't think we'll be seeing any sort of referendum on that one any time soon.

    And as for abortion? The church isn't as dead as some people would like to think it is.


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  • #72
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    Yes to abortion up to third term. No to euthanasia.


  • #73
    No Voter And Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭No Voter And Proud


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    Yes to abortion up to third term. No to euthanasia.

    Really? Third term?
    When the child could be viably born by c section? For shame.


  • #74
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realise you controlled people's opinion.
    I don't. That's why I said it was daft.
    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    As a practising christian I cannot see how killing any of Gods creations is within my remit.

    Right... now I understand.


  • #75
    IrishTrajan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,703 ✭✭✭IrishTrajan


    DareGod wrote: »
    You think that the issue of people who get pregnant and decide not to keep the baby is a more important issue than helping people to put an end to their chronic unimaginable suffering?

    Yes, actually. I would recommend Freakonomics' piece on abortion and crime rates. I would like to see both, but I feel abortion is the more important of the two.


  • #76
    cloud493
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,835 ✭✭✭✭cloud493


    Well ideally both, but in practise, abortion should probably come first.


  • #77
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    I ticked abortion, but I think both should be legalised.
    Reason for putting abortion first is same as other poster who said it affects more people, but I feel awful for the people who might envisage euthanasia too and do not have the option.


  • #78
    IrishTrajan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,703 ✭✭✭IrishTrajan


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    As a practising christian I cannot see how killing any of Gods creations is within my remit.

    But you kill bacteria every time you wash your hands, or drink water, or wash your face or shower... Or do you live like a Jainist?


  • #79
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Madd Finn wrote: »
    But what articles currently inhibit euthanasia? And if there are none, how the hell would you phrase one to "allow" it.
    You wouldn't, unless someone finds a part of the constitution that a court rules prohibits euthanasia.

    People have gone a little bit referendum-mad. We should avoid adding anything to the constitution which can be reasonably provided for in law.


  • #80
    No Voter And Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭No Voter And Proud


    smash wrote: »
    I don't. That's why I said it was daft.



    Right... now I understand.

    I think I do too. A bit more church and a bit less hedonism.
    cloud493 wrote: »
    Well ideally both, but in practise, abortion should probably come first.

    So, kill the young before allowing the old kill themselves?


  • #81
    No Voter And Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭No Voter And Proud


    IrishTrajan wrote: »
    But you kill bacteria every time you wash your hands, or drink water, or wash your face or shower... Or do you live like a Jainist?

    Now that, friends, is a daft argument.
    Man has dominion over other members of the animal kingdom - including bacteria.


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  • #82
    valoren
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,514 ✭✭✭valoren


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    I don't see the need to allow abortion anyway.
    We've got transport to the UK for the unmentionables that would do that to a child, and for the rest of us there's Ireland.

    Why don't you be a good christian and forgive them?

    Although I'd like you to do the forgiving while they don't have to travel in the first place.


  • #83
    Calhoun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    seamus wrote: »
    You wouldn't, unless someone finds a part of the constitution that a court rules prohibits euthanasia.

    People have gone a little bit referendum-mad. We should avoid adding anything to the constitution which can be reasonably provided for in law.

    Exactly, only the abortion one would make sense. The reason we need to remove it is so we can actually govern through regular legislation.


  • #84
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Name: No Voter And Proud
    Location: Castlerea

    Don't engage lads... it's not worth it.


  • #85
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    IrishTrajan wrote: »
    Yes, actually. I would recommend Freakonomics' piece on abortion and crime rates. I would like to see both, but I feel abortion is the more important of the two.

    That's been widely debunked.


  • #86
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Now that, friends, is a daft argument.
    Man has dominion over other members of the animal kingdom - including bacteria.

    "That is a daft argument"

    <quotes bible to refute it>


    I love comedy.


  • #87
    IrishTrajan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,703 ✭✭✭IrishTrajan


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    Now that, friends, is a daft argument.
    Man has dominion over other members of the animal kingdom - including bacteria.
    As a practising christian I cannot see how killing any of Gods creations is within my remit.

    Has the word "any" changed its meaning recently?


  • #88
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    Now that, friends, is a daft argument.
    Man has dominion over other members of the animal kingdom - including bacteria.

    Especially women and children, god knows a lot of Irish Catholics took full rapey beaty advantage of that for long enough.


  • #89
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    seamus wrote: »
    You wouldn't, unless someone finds a part of the constitution that a court rules prohibits euthanasia.

    People have gone a little bit referendum-mad. We should avoid adding anything to the constitution which can be reasonably provided for in law.

    Agreed. Remember on abortion we are just repealing the 8th. That's all. Not adding a new amendment.


  • #90
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    seamus wrote: »
    You wouldn't, unless someone finds a part of the constitution that a court rules prohibits euthanasia.

    People have gone a little bit referendum-mad. We should avoid adding anything to the constitution which can be reasonably provided for in law.

    Definitely. The 8th should never have gone in, it's been nothing but trouble.


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  • #91
    IrishTrajan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,703 ✭✭✭IrishTrajan


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    That's been widely debunked.

    Link? Most people pick a pedantic miscalculation as proof that they're wrong, no?


  • #92
    No Voter And Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭No Voter And Proud


    valoren wrote: »
    Why don't you be a good christian and forgive them?

    Although I'd like you to do the forgiving while they don't have to travel in the first place.

    God will judge us all on the last day, it's not for me to judge. But I can't accept the murderous acts of someone if they do not at least repent.


  • #93
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,386 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    Yes to abortion up to third term. No to euthanasia.
    I think you just gave away your age there, love. Best put your phone down now and get that homework finished!

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • #94
    No Voter And Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭No Voter And Proud


    smash wrote: »
    Name: No Voter And Proud
    Location: Castlerea

    Don't engage lads... it's not worth it.

    I'm actually from tisrara and work in castlerea most days but I didnt know what people put as there location.

    How and ever.... there's always one who runs out of debate and labels the other.


  • #95
    IrishTrajan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,703 ✭✭✭IrishTrajan


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    God will judge us all on the last day, it's not for me to judge. But I can't accept the murderous acts of someone if they do not at least repent.

    Can you go back to /pol/ with the "degeneracy!" trolling?


  • #96
    Witcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,638 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    God will judge us all on the last day, it's not for me to judge. But I can't accept the murderous acts of someone if they do not at least repent.

    Yet you judge people anyway.

    Bad Christian...bad! You're definitely in for a scourging on the last day for that.


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  • #97
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,386 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    Now that, friends, is a daft argument.
    Man has dominion over other members of the animal kingdom - including bacteria.

    Yes John. :D

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • #98
    No Voter And Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭No Voter And Proud


    IrishTrajan wrote: »
    Can you go back to /pol/ with the "degeneracy!" trolling?

    Interpol?
    Unfortunately they dont go after abortionists! :P


  • #99
    cloud493
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,835 ✭✭✭✭cloud493


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    Interpol?
    Unfortunately they dont go after abortionists! :P

    Considering its not a crime it'd be a fair waste of resources :)


  • #100
    ghostfacekilla
    Registered Users Posts: 685 ✭✭✭ghostfacekilla


    Maybe an option in the poll for 'both' would be handy.


  • #101
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,752 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Neither.


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