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Victory for electoral fraud

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    #362
    Aka Ishur
    Registered Users Posts: 740 ✭✭✭Aka Ishur


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Because mass emigration has occurred in recent years primarily as a result of disastrous government policies enacted when many of those who have left were too young to vote. It's only fair to give them the chance to try and help repair the country as part of the democratic process if they're coming home, or trying to help create conditions conducive to coming home.

    Personally I don't see why we don't have an absentee ballot in Ireland.

    Phrase I never thought I'd say - 'I agree with hatrickpatrick'

    All citizens should have a say in the future of their country. Super simple stuff.


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    #363
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    MILLIONS of women worldwide would disagree with this silly statement.
    Yeah, girls get pregnant from one time flings. Good/bad luck is involved.

    Are you denying that women conceive when they have sex close to or during ovulation?


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    #364
    MathDebater
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭MathDebater


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Because mass emigration has occurred in recent years primarily as a result of disastrous government policies enacted when many of those who have left were too young to vote. It's only fair to give them the chance to try and help repair the country as part of the democratic process if they're coming home, or trying to help create conditions conducive to coming home.

    Personally I don't see why we don't have an absentee ballot in Ireland.
    All citizens should have a say in the future of their country. Super simple stuff.

    Simple, indeed.

    There are circa 3,200,000 voters registered with the electoral register. As we have already seen this weekend, a splice of them are already abroad. In the UK alone, six million people are able to claim Irish citizenship through descent. Then factor in those who can claim it in America, Canada, Australia, Irish citizens in the north and the number of Irish born emigrants.

    Citizens from outside of the state would have more a say in how the country is run than those of us living here.


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    #365
    petrolcan
    Registered Users Posts: 898 ✭✭✭petrolcan


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    that was born here, schooled here, employed here, pay thousands of euro in tax here every year, and they have no say in the running of the country because they don't actually live here. I, for one, think that is wrong.

    I'm all of the above but haven't paid tax there for quite some time.

    I don't feel wronged by not having a vote.


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    #366
    Aka Ishur
    Registered Users Posts: 740 ✭✭✭Aka Ishur


    MathDebater wrote: »
    Simple, indeed.

    There are circa 3,200,000 voters registered with the electoral register. As we have already seen this weekend, a splice of them are already abroad. In the UK alone, six million people are able to claim Irish citizenship through descent. Then factor in those who can claim it in America, Canada, Australia, Irish citizens in the north and the number of Irish born emigrants.

    Citizens from outside of the state would have more a say in how the country is run than those of us living here.

    If they are ready for Ireland to be their sole country of citizenship why not? Hardly a likely scenario for the vast majority of them. But if they are comitted to make that leap do they not deserve to get a say in how their country is run?

    You're regarded as a citizen or you are not. If you're a citizen you should have a say.


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    #367
    MathDebater
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭MathDebater


    Aka Ishur wrote: »
    If they are ready for Ireland to be their sole country of citizenship why not?

    We allow citizens hold dual and muliple citizenships. We don't make them rescind their original citizenship when obtaining Irish citizenship through descent, naturalisation or when Irish born citizens obtain naturalised citizenship with a new country. Would you seriously be happy with a collective who have left Ireland or who have never spent more than a holiday here, having more a say, proportionately, than Irish citizens who live here and who keep the show on the road?


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    #368
    Aka Ishur
    Registered Users Posts: 740 ✭✭✭Aka Ishur


    MathDebater wrote: »
    We allow citizens hold dual and muliple citizenships. We don't make them rescind their original citizenship when obtaining Irish citizenship through descent, naturalisation or when Irish born citizens obtain naturalised citizenship with a new country. Would you seriously be happy with a collective who have left Ireland or who have never spent more than a holiday here, having more a say, proportionately, than Irish citizens who live here and who keep the show on the road?

    Which is exactly why I said it would need to be their sole country of citizenship...


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    #369
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,651 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Aka Ishur wrote: »
    If they are ready for Ireland to be their sole country of citizenship why not? Hardly a likely scenario for the vast majority of them. But if they are comitted to make that leap do they not deserve to get a say in how their country is run?

    You're regarded as a citizen or you are not. If you're a citizen you should have a say.

    How do people not living here and that never intend living here deserve a vote?

    I agree emigrants should be allowed but there needs a to be a limit. I would suggest 5-7 years as that way they get a presidential and GE to vote on.


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    #370
    Aka Ishur
    Registered Users Posts: 740 ✭✭✭Aka Ishur


    VinLieger wrote: »
    How do people not living here and that never intend living here deserve a vote?

    I agree emigrants should be allowed but there needs a to be a limit. I would suggest 5-7 years as that way they get a presidential and GE to vote on.

    They deserve a say because they are citizens. Citizenship is a privilage that should come with the attendant duties, including deciding the nation's path.


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    #371
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,406 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Yeah, girls get pregnant from one time flings. Good/bad luck is involved.

    Are you denying that women conceive when they have sex close to or during ovulation?


    Erm


    that's Exactly how women get pregnant!

    You claimed

    Having a child does not usually occur from a one time fling but rather over several months of repeated trying.

    But many many pregnancies DO occur from one time flings.


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    #372
    Aka Ishur
    Registered Users Posts: 740 ✭✭✭Aka Ishur


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Erm


    that's Exactly how women get pregnant!

    You claimed




    But many many pregnancies DO occur from one time flings.

    Can we not just ignore stefanovich's desperate need for biology lessons?


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    #373
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Erm


    that's Exactly how women get pregnant!

    You claimed




    But many many pregnancies DO occur from one time flings.
    Yes, but we are talking about gay people having straight sex to conceive, not an unbridled moment of passion. If a gay person is trying to conceive they would likely need indulge several times at least before success. My point is that it must be a particularly distressing thing for a gay person to do.
    Aka Ishur wrote: »
    Can we not just ignore stefanovich's desperate need for biology lessons?
    I'm not the one who needs biology lessons.


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    #374
    Not a NSA agent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 781 ✭✭✭Not a NSA agent


    Has anyone got numbers for this fraud yet or is the court of facebook still in session?


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    #375
    MathDebater
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭MathDebater


    Aka Ishur wrote: »
    Which is exactly why I said it would need to be their sole country of citizenship...

    When someone has acquired Irish citizenship through descent or naturalisation or when an Irish citizen becomes a naturalised citizen elsewhere, for matters regarding the state, the state treats them solely as Irish citizens. Their other citizenship is immaterial and the state holds no record of their dual and or multiple citizenship(s).

    Other than severely restricting Irish citizens from holding dual and or multiple citizenship(s), ala Germany and Norway, it would be unenforceable.


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    #376
    Aka Ishur
    Registered Users Posts: 740 ✭✭✭Aka Ishur


    MathDebater wrote: »
    When someone has acquired Irish citizenship through descent or naturalisation or when an Irish citizen becomes a naturalised citizen elsewhere, for matters regarding the state, the state treats them solely as Irish citizens. Their other citizenship is immaterial and the state holds no record of their dual and or multiple citizenship(s).

    Other than severely restricting Irish citizens from holding dual and or multiple citizenship(s), ala Germany and Norway, it would be unenforceable.

    Maintaining a record of those with multiple/dual citizenships will be a lot easier than maintaining the electoral register seems to be. I imagine the list of people with multiple citizenship to be relatively short. Very simple to have a passport scanner checking if they are on that list or not.


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    #377
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Not a NSA agent wrote: »
    Has anyone got numbers for this fraud yet or is the court of facebook still in session?

    In recess in order to replenish the outrage or to top up the vino, M'Lud


  • Options
    #378
    MathDebater
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭MathDebater


    Aka Ishur wrote: »
    Maintaining a record of those with multiple/dual citizenships will be a lot easier than maintaining the electoral register seems to be. I imagine the list of people with multiple citizenship to be relatively short. Very simple to have a passport scanner checking if they are on that list or not.

    Seems like an awful lot of work for something which is a very bad idea.

    How about we fix the electoral register and ensure that we don't have a repeat of Saturday next time around? I think that's a much better idea.


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    #379
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,551 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Vote NO to voting rights for all citizens abroad*.

    *different issue from this one where they may still have voting rights in Ireland


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    #380
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    stefanovich wrote: »
    This is all getting pretty technical.

    Let me just say that if there are 3 members of one family that are gay it's quite an anomaly and there must be some genetic or environmental factor at play.

    Homosexuality is NOT genetic.

    Are you for fucking real?


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    #381
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Yes, but we are talking about gay people having straight sex to conceive, not an unbridled moment of passion. If a gay person is trying to conceive they would likely need indulge several times at least before success. My point is that it must be a particularly distressing thing for a gay person to do.


    I'm not the one who needs biology lessons.

    Christ man! Most gay men who want to father a child use IVF. As do gay women.


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    #382
    valoren
    Registered Users Posts: 5,458 ✭✭✭valoren


    Emmigants, I knew it was them!
    Even when it was the gays I knew it was them!


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    #383
    superelliptic
    Registered Users Posts: 395 ✭✭superelliptic


    stefanovich wrote: »
    What this referendum has highlighted even more clearly is the lack of security in our electoral system, how broken and open to abuse it is.

    66,000 non-residents return to vote yes. Enda is overjoyed.

    Non-Irish registered and voting and proud.

    I had heard similar - any source though?


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    #384
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,551 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    superelliptic wrote: »
    I had heard similar - any source though?
    66,000 newly registered voters by May 5th (cut-off point). Those registering were doing so in Ireland, obviously. I was one of them.

    OP hasn't ever been able to put any numbers on anything, including:

    How many people came back to vote (thousands coming and going every weekend anyway)
    Whether they were legally allowed to vote or not
    Whether they all voted Yes or not.

    Thread is a load of balls really, and the OP's subsequent posts make the 'it's nothing to do with the result, just about electoral fraud' line fairly shaky.


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    #385
    To Elland Back
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭To Elland Back


    stefanovich wrote: »
    I'd have to question their sexuality then. Having a child does not usually occur from a one time fling but rather over several months of repeated trying.

    As a heterosexual person I find the idea of engaging in homosexual sex repulsive. I would imagine a gay would feel the same about heterosexual sex.

    Not wanting to put anyone off their lunch, but you could complete the process of intercourse in about 10 seconds, if the sole purpose was impregnation. If you were desperate to have your own kids by natural methods, I'm sure some people would attempt that option. Nobody is suggesting romance or mutual foreplay


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    #386
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    For someone who doesn't like gay people, stefanovich sure seems to spend a lot of time thinking about them having sex.


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    #387
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Never said I didn't like them


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    #388
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Aka Ishur wrote: »
    Phrase I never thought I'd say - 'I agree with hatrickpatrick'

    I wouldn't advise making a habit of it, tbh ;)


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    #389
    Kevhog1988
    Registered Users Posts: 3,959 ✭✭✭Kevhog1988


    Op, i travelled home to vote..... I voted no


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    #390
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    MathDebater wrote: »
    Simple, indeed.

    There are circa 3,200,000 voters registered with the electoral register. As we have already seen this weekend, a splice of them are already abroad. In the UK alone, six million people are able to claim Irish citizenship through descent. Then factor in those who can claim it in America, Canada, Australia, Irish citizens in the north and the number of Irish born emigrants.

    Citizens from outside of the state would have more a say in how the country is run than those of us living here.

    I'm not suggesting everyone with Irish citizenship should automatically get an absentee vote, I'm suggesting that people who spent their youth and/or young adulthood in Ireland and have emigrated out of economic necessity should have one. There's a difference between leaving by choice and leaving because government policy essentially forced you out.


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    #391
    Kevhog1988
    Registered Users Posts: 3,959 ✭✭✭Kevhog1988


    I work in the uk the past 4 years... Did i break the law? I have voted every time since i left


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