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Victory for electoral fraud

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    #332
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    mickydoomsux wrote: »
    Mass organised electoral fraud is obviously much more likely than people who are anti gay marriage being a minority.

    The sourest of grapes.

    "Ye only won because ye cheated" :(

    I don't think that's a fair assertion. I don't think anyone is questioning the legitimacy of the ballot is in doubt since it did pass handsomely - several hundred thousand votes.

    The main question here is the question of electoral integrity. We have had ballots in the past where slim margins were recorded. Even yesterday there were some thirty ballots between the sides in Donegal. It is certainly fair and right to question the running of the poll after every election and look for ways in which it's security can be improved. Those that came home to vote would probably number the low thousands at most and many perhaps fulfilled the residency criteria that allowed them to legally vote. Some though did not, I know three individuals that returned who haven't lived here for over three years. I have no doubt that those three were not alone. There were other long term emigrants interviewed in the papers and on TV who were clearly gone for years and were being celebrated as heroes. This wasn't right.

    People need to respect the rules of the electoral system, even if they are poorly enforced. Just because you can break a rule, doesn't mean you should.


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    #333
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    Does Russia do ANYTHING wrong in your world Eggy?

    That's not for me to say. All I'm doing is refuting obvious false propaganda. Someone posts a video of gay-bashing thugs in Russia and then tries to say that this is government policy. If they posted a video of Combat 18 or the National Front punching up a few Pakistanis and then said that it was indicative of how the British government treats people of colour, how would you react?


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    #334
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Egginacup wrote: »
    That's not for me to say. All I'm doing is refuting obvious false propaganda. Someone posts a video of gay-bashing thugs in Russia and then tries to say that this is government policy. If they posted a video of Combat 18 or the National Front punching up a few Pakistanis and then said that it was indicative of how the British government treats people of colour, how would you react?

    I get what you mean but the british government actively tries to prevent racist acts such as that, and tries to protect minorities. The Russian government and law enforcement have no such laws in place to protect gay people and the police have shown little regard for the cases of abuse that lgbt people have reported to them. Also Putin has voiced his opinion on homosexuality and seems to be against it, trying to cover his homosexuality with fear of birth rates dropping or some ****.
    Russia as a whole is very anti-gay


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    #335
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    I don't think that's a fair assertion. I don't think anyone is questioning the legitimacy of the ballot is in doubt since it did pass handsomely - several hundred thousand votes.



    People need to respect the rules of the electoral system, even if they are poorly enforced. Just because you can break a rule, doesn't mean you should.

    The electoral system needs to respect the electorate first. I would actively discourage anyone from removing themselves from the register until such time as local authority employees can no longer remove your right to vote on a whim, be it because they think you won't vote the way they will or they didn't see you at Mass or whatever. The right to vote is probably the most important entitlement that any citizen has, and a system that allows that right to be taken away on an impulse is contemptuous.


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    #336
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Egginacup wrote: »
    That's not for me to say. All I'm doing is refuting obvious false propaganda. Someone posts a video of gay-bashing thugs in Russia and then tries to say that this is government policy. If they posted a video of Combat 18 or the National Front punching up a few Pakistanis and then said that it was indicative of how the British government treats people of colour, how would you react?
    You could easily refute it by pointing to tonnes of legislation introduced to protect minorities by the British government.

    In Russia, you can easily point to anti-gay laws and various repressive laws against free speech and NGOs.

    I think you are making our case for us.

    (by the way, a thread entitled 'victory for electoral fraud' is oddly appropriate for a discussion involving the Putin regime)


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    #337
    fed up sick and tired
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭fed up sick and tired


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    I don't think that's a fair assertion. I don't think anyone is questioning the legitimacy of the ballot is in doubt since it did pass handsomely - several hundred thousand votes.

    The main question here is the question of electoral integrity. We have had ballots in the past where slim margins were recorded. Even yesterday there were some thirty ballots between the sides in Donegal. It is certainly fair and right to question the running of the poll after every election and look for ways in which it's security can be improved. Those that came home to vote would probably number the low thousands at most and many perhaps fulfilled the residency criteria that allowed them to legally vote. Some though did not, I know three individuals that returned who haven't lived here for over three years. I have no doubt that those three were not alone. There were other long term emigrants interviewed in the papers and on TV who were clearly gone for years and were being celebrated as heroes. This wasn't right.

    People need to respect the rules of the electoral system, even if they are poorly enforced. Just because you can break a rule, doesn't mean you should.

    Great post.


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    #338
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,851 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    fed up sick and tired wrote: »
    Eloquent.

    But if you have a vote, I should have at least three.

    The irony of what you are saying is hilarious.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #339
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    fed up sick and tired wrote: »
    Eloquent.

    But if you have a vote, I should have at least three.
    You're starting to sound like Ronan Mullen during his time of the month.


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    #340
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    RecordStraight wrote: »
    You could easily refute it by pointing to tonnes of legislation introduced to protect minorities by the British government.

    In Russia, you can easily point to anti-gay laws and various repressive laws against free speech and NGOs.

    I think you are making our case for us.

    (by the way, a thread entitled 'victory for electoral fraud' is oddly appropriate for a discussion involving the Putin regime)

    Why are you bringing up Putin? What's he got to do with anything? I never mentioned him. I never even mentioned Russia until someone quacking like a duck started in about it. I likened the OP's hypocrisy and pathetic refusal at accepting the results of this referendum and trying to assert that it was a fix or in some way invalid with the same amateurish attempts to refuse to accept the Crimean referendum as a landslide.

    And you as well as others, true to form, had to bring up Russia and gay rights there as if that had anything to do with not being able to accept electoral defeat.

    The shabby attempts at trying to invalidate this referendum by posting the odd miserable anecdote about a French co-worker voting or some guy on the Finnucane show saying he was out of the country for years and then expanding this crap to mean that tens of thousands of inelligible voters flew into the country and swayed the result in favour of a yes vote are akin to the absoultely laughable attempts by the same parallel-universe fantasists who try to say that millions of Crimeans voted at the barrel of a gun just because these same delusional fantasists can't bring themselves to accept a decision that they don't like.
    You would do well to try and get that into your head instead of trying to frame the discussion in some other unrelated light.


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    #341
    fed up sick and tired
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭fed up sick and tired


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    The irony of what you are saying is hilarious.

    Good. It was a joke, but I actually thought it would go right over your head, considering your two contributions so far.

    But you know your History of Utilitarianism, so fair play to you.


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    #342
    fed up sick and tired
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭fed up sick and tired


    RecordStraight wrote: »
    You're starting to sound like Ronan Mullen during his time of the month.

    Misogynistic vulgarity. I note the calibre of the 'like' you received.


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    #343
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    fed up sick and tired wrote: »
    Misogynistic vulgarity. I note the calibre of the 'like' you received.
    I think you left the high moral ground behind with your homophobic 'Larry Grayson' remark. I was interested in seeing how you would reply if I mirrored your comment.


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    #344
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Egginacup wrote: »
    parallel-universe fantasists who try to say that millions of Crimeans voted at the barrel of a gun just because these same delusional fantasists can't bring themselves to accept a decision that they don't like.

    It's supremely ironic that you of all people should accuse others of being parallel world fantasists and delusional.

    Also do try and stop avoiding inconvenient questions:
    Does Russia do ANYTHING wrong in your world Eggy?


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    #345
    fed up sick and tired
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭fed up sick and tired


    RecordStraight wrote: »
    I think you left the high moral ground behind with your homophobic 'Larry Grayson' remark. I was interested in seeing how you would reply if I mirrored your comment.

    You thought to take on a perceived homophobic slight, with a misogynistic one ? Not believable. You were just being catty.

    But sure, leave your post up there, for all to see it's ingenuity.

    You should have taken me on by quoting the post which offended you, and given me a chance to elaborate; not jumping in over your head into a conversation you were not part of.


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    #346
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    fed up sick and tired wrote: »
    Not credible.
    Your hypocritical reaction was indeed incredible. The lack of self-awareness is hilarious.


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    #347
    ToddyDoody
    Registered Users Posts: 4,421 ✭✭✭ToddyDoody


    stefanovich wrote: »
    That is in fact incorrect. If they are out of the country more than 18 months they are breaking the law if they vote.

    If you are not Irish and you voted yesterday you are also breaking the law.

    What is this need to exclude everyone "for the protection of our interests"... It'll be a return to border taxes next.


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    #348
    Aka Ishur
    Registered Users Posts: 740 ✭✭✭Aka Ishur


    I am open to correction but I don't believe there is a legal definition of 'giving up residency' it is certainly not defined as simply leaving the country. Therefore the whole 18 months law is fairly meaningless.

    In my opinion polling cards should be done away with and integrated into the passport system/id card system and you instantly do away with folks with 3-4 polling cards, people haveing to travel home to vote etc. People could vote at the local embassy when abroad.


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    #349
    RDM_83 again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    Aka Ishur wrote: »
    I am open to correction but I don't believe there is a legal definition of 'giving up residency' it is certainly not defined as simply leaving the country. Therefore the whole 18 months law is fairly meaningless.

    In my opinion polling cards should be done away with and integrated into the passport system/id card system and you instantly do away with folks with 3-4 polling cards, people haveing to travel home to vote etc. People could vote at the local embassy when abroad.

    Well since Social Welfare can do it and AFAIK the revenue do to it should be enforceable, also I think the law is that you have to have been gone for less than 18 months if the going to return part kicks in

    I don't think the level of fraud would have influenced the result but does anybody honestly think that the system isn't being abused.

    In terms of the rights and wrongs of the legislation and arguments about disenfranchisement of Irish citizens I've argued about this before (including with a prominent poster here who's definitely non-resident who was going to return to vote ;) ) is that its always framed in a way that would create a very large group of Irish citizens who would suddenly be treated as 2nd class (those Irish citizens born and resident in NI)


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    #350
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Didn't realise such a law existed, it should be abolished ASAP.


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    #351
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    osarusan wrote: »
    How widespread?

    Can you be specific about the numebers at all?
    I'm not inspector Gadget but there have been numerous people bragging about it.
    To Elland Back wrote: »
    There is nothing to stop a gay man or woman having intercourse with a member of the opposite sex for the purpose of having a child. Therefore, the bloodline continues
    I'd have to question their sexuality then. Having a child does not usually occur from a one time fling but rather over several months of repeated trying.

    As a heterosexual person I find the idea of engaging in homosexual sex repulsive. I would imagine a gay would feel the same about heterosexual sex.


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    #352
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Having a child does not usually occur from a one time fling but rather over several months of repeated trying.

    We don't all have lethargic spooge.

    It only takes once.


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    #353
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    We don't all have lethargic spooge.

    It only takes once.
    This is all getting pretty technical.

    Let me just say that if there are 3 members of one family that are gay it's quite an anomaly and there must be some genetic or environmental factor at play.


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    #354
    Aka Ishur
    Registered Users Posts: 740 ✭✭✭Aka Ishur


    stefanovich wrote: »
    I'm not inspector Gadget but there have been numerous people bragging about it.


    I'd have to question their sexuality then. Having a child does not usually occur from a one time fling but rather over several months of repeated trying.

    As a heterosexual person I find the idea of engaging in homosexual sex repulsive. I would imagine a gay would feel the same about heterosexual sex.

    People need to get this medieval bloodline idea out of the conversation. Generations of children from all over the world will tell you it takes more than a blood link to be a decent parent.


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    #355
    Rowley Birkin QC
    Registered Users Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭Rowley Birkin QC


    stefanovich wrote: »
    .

    As a heterosexual person I find the idea of engaging in homosexual sex repulsive. I would imagine a gay would feel the same about heterosexual sex.

    What do the bisexuals think?


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    #356
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,418 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    stefanovich wrote: »
    I'm not inspector Gadget but there have been numerous people bragging about it.


    I'd have to question their sexuality then. Having a child does not usually occur from a one time fling but rather over several months of repeated trying.

    As a heterosexual person I find the idea of engaging in homosexual sex repulsive. I would imagine a gay would feel the same about heterosexual sex.

    Lol

    :rolleyes:


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    #357
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Lol

    :rolleyes:
    Don't know why this is funny... A woman is only ovulating for a short period each month and the timing needs to be just right.


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    #358
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    fed up sick and tired wrote: »
    Misogynistic vulgarity. I note the calibre of the 'like' you received.

    By insulting the people who thanked the comment, you have now lost your imagined moral high ground.

    Keep going though. Superiority complexes being played out online are fun to watch :)


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    #359
    MathDebater
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭MathDebater


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Didn't realise such a law existed, it should be abolished ASAP.

    Why?


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    #360
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,418 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Don't know why this is funny... A woman is only ovulating for a short period each month and the timing needs to be just right.

    MILLIONS of women worldwide would disagree with this silly statement.
    Having a child does not usually occur from a one time fling but rather over several months of repeated trying.


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    #361
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    MathDebater wrote: »
    Why?

    Because mass emigration has occurred in recent years primarily as a result of disastrous government policies enacted when many of those who have left were too young to vote. It's only fair to give them the chance to try and help repair the country as part of the democratic process if they're coming home, or trying to help create conditions conducive to coming home.

    Personally I don't see why we don't have an absentee ballot in Ireland.


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