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Half-baked Republican Presidential Fruitcakes (and fellow confections)

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Comments

  • Moderators Posts: 51,847 ✭✭✭✭Delirium




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe




  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Evidence, not proof.

    So that's a no then.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    jank wrote: »
    So is he or is he not a member of the GOP or Tea Party. Its a very simple question. Yes or no will suffice. If yes, show me a link. You guys should know all about proof right? You are trying to claim an assertion without any proof. A big no no for atheists. Or does that go out the window when it comes to mocking people you don't agree with?
    Jank, you should really read people's posts before replying to them.

    I didn't say that Joyner was a teabagger as you seem to think. Instead, I said that he's "an elderly teabagger (or an elderly man with teabagger sympathies)".

    Nodin and joseph_brand have helpfully supplied the evidence you need about the elderly man's teabagger sympathies. Do let me know if you need evidence to of the "elderly" or "man" claims.

    BTW, one doesn't provide "proof" for claims, just indicative evidence, as Genghiz has helpfully pointed out. Neither does one "claim an assertion" - I think you mean "assert a claim" or perhaps "make an assertion" (though in that case, making an assertion without proof is fine, since expecting proof in this instance constitutes a category error). Hope this helps.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    See here and here.

    Two opinion pieces (by the same author mind) telling us that Rick Joyner is 'linked' to the tea party and GOP yet provides no actual proof of said links beside saying nice things about Sarah Palin. Where is the actual empirical evidence that he is a member of a tea party movement and a member of the GOP. Has he ever attended a tea party meeting? A republican convention? After all this is a thread detailing things the GOP do, not 'GOP and everyone we don't like'. Please be more accurate in future. The plebs might get confused.


    It is OK JP, maybe next time you want to diss the republicans maybe stay within the bounds of actual republican members. It is quite simple really.
    You could have looked it up yourself, if you didn't believe. We atheists, and I think I can speak for ALL OF US, aren't content with being spoon fed. So we often resort to looking for the information ourselves, from more than one single source.

    Multiple sources but by the same author? :pac: How *cough* enlightened of you.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Oh cheer up jank.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    robindch wrote: »
    Jank, you should really read people's posts before replying to them.

    I didn't say that Joyner was a teabagger as you seem to think. Instead, I said that he's "an elderly teabagger (or an elderly man with teabagger sympathies)".

    Nodin and joseph_brand have helpfully supplied the evidence you need about the elderly man's teabagger sympathies. Do let me know if you need evidence to of the "elderly" or "man" claims.

    BTW, one doesn't provide "proof" for claims, just indicative evidence, as Genghiz has helpfully pointed out. Neither does one "claim an assertion" - I think you mean "assert a claim" or perhaps "make an assertion" (though in that case, making an assertion without proof is fine, since expecting proof in this instance constitutes a category error). Hope this helps.

    Ah the ultimate get out of jail card. He likes some things the tea party does so hey lets lump him in with all the rest and paint massive broad stokes and begin the daily circle jerk. Perhaps we can call Obama a terrorist because of the links with Bill Ayers and Rev. Wright. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

    Of course this is not to mention the mental comparisons to the Taliban you made.

    Also telling that you constantly use the word 'teabagger' with its sexual connotations to describe a political faction. The term is banned in the politics forum as some kids got their kicks out of the term. One would think a mod would show some leadership but hey this is A+A.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Sarky wrote: »
    Oh cheer up jank.

    Thanks mate. I will try. How is your dog lately?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    jank wrote: »
    Ah the ultimate get out of jail card. He likes some things the tea party does so hey lets lump him in with all the rest and paint massive broad stokes and begin the daily circle jerk. Perhaps we can call Obama a terrorist because of the links with Bill Ayers and Rev. Wright. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

    Of course this is not to mention the mental comparisons to the Taliban you made.

    Also telling that you constantly use the word 'teabagger' with its sexual connotations to describe a political faction. The term is banned in the politics forum as some kids got their kicks out of the term. One would think a mod would show some leadership but hey this is A+A.



    you know your life will be a lot easier if you just leave these idiots to their collective circle jerks. you're not going to convince any of them of anything. give up, stick on a movie. relax.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Oh look there goes that thing called 'civility'. Come back! Come backk!!!*

    :(


    * I apologise to the grammar pedants about the excessive exclamation marks.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    jank wrote: »
    One would think a mod would show some leadership but hey this is A+A.
    Mods don't "lead" here in A+A, as the forum is a discussion group, not a political party.

    Instead, mods enforce the forum charter which, to judge from your continual head-shaking, finger-wagging and intemperate fist-waving, you appear to have forgotten again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    you know your life will be a lot easier if you just leave these idiots to their collective circle jerks. you're not going to convince any of them of anything. give up, stick on a movie. relax.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    jank wrote: »
    Ah the ultimate get out of jail card. He likes some things the tea party does so hey lets lump him in with all the rest and paint massive broad stokes and begin the daily circle jerk. Perhaps we can call Obama a terrorist because of the links with Bill Ayers and Rev. Wright. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

    Of course this is not to mention the mental comparisons to the Taliban you made.

    Also telling that you constantly use the word 'teabagger' with its sexual connotations to describe a political faction. The term is banned in the politics forum as some kids got their kicks out of the term. One would think a mod would show some leadership but hey this is A+A.

    Can you honestly say that you think he's a Democrat? Coming out with the sort of nonsense reserved only for the Teabillies.

    Maybe you can counter our claims?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    So that's a no then.


    Did you read up on the organisations hes involved with?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    robindch wrote: »
    Mods don't "lead" here in A+A, as the forum is a discussion group, not a political party.

    Instead, mods enforce the forum charter which, to judge from your continual head-shaking, finger-wagging and intemperate fist-waving, you appear to have forgotten again.

    So why do you knowingly use a derogatory term to use a political faction. Would it be OK to call a LGBT group the 'dyke group' or the 'fag party'. No it wouldn't so why lower yourself to 'teabagger'?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Can you honestly say that you think he's a Democrat? Coming out with the sort of nonsense reserved only for the Teabillies.

    Maybe you can counter our claims?

    Maybe he is neither, did anyone think of that? I would not call members of the Westboro baptist church members of the tea party or the GOP, nor would I call members of Black Panther, US Communist Party or Bill ayers indicative members of the Democratic party. Fox news probably would on the latter so there you go. It seems the Fox News tactic of smear is the way to go.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    jank wrote: »
    So why do you knowingly use a derogatory term to use a political faction. Would it be OK to call a LGBT group the 'dyke group' or the 'fag party'. No it wouldn't so why lower yourself to 'teabagger'?

    Was this comment made, tongue-in-cheek? So many opportunities for a double-entendre.

    You're not comparing like with like. The LGBT community have been oppressed and have had to fight for equal rights. Then there's gay bashing (physical violence).

    What oppression have the bigoted, xenophobic, racist, christian Teabillies had to fight?

    I've no doubt that Robin would not allow the terms '****** party', 'cracker party' or 'gook party', which would all be highly offensive. Tea Baggers though, just like Repubtard*, don't have the same connotations. It's not that complicated.

    From the dictionary.
    Repubtard
    A retarded Republican, which in itself is a double negative, due to the fact that Republicans are already retarded.

    Repubtard's favorite channel is FOX (Forgotten Old Xenophobes - previously referred to as Freaks On Xanax) News.

    They are responsible for outsourcing and offshoring cause they save some money to donate to other Repubtard candidates in upcoming presidential elections. Repubtards also favor toddlers carrying semi-automatic's, a supposedly advanced nation without healthcare, war-mongering, tea bagging, and tax breaks for the rich (which they embellish by stating that trickle-down economics works, which of course it doesn't, but greed-at-top economics is what they practice.)

    They also believe that $7 million dollars isn't "wealthy enough". Additionally they are in favor of cutting education, social security, stem cell research, social programs, and sending American manufacturing overseas for cheap labor and higher revenue, etc. pretty much everything that makes an advanced industrial country...well...an advanced industrial country.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Was this comment made, tongue-in-cheek? So many opportunities for a double-entendre.

    You're not comparing like with like. The LGBT community have been oppressed and have had to fight for equal rights. Then there's gay bashing (physical violence).

    What oppression have the bigoted, xenophobic, racist, christian Teabillies had to fight?

    I've no doubt that Robin would not allow the terms '****** party', 'cracker party' or 'gook party', which would all be highly offensive. Tea Baggers though, just like Repubtard*, don't have the same connotations. It's not that complicated.

    From the dictionary.


    So because a group has not been oppressed in the past its OK to stoop to namecalling? Really? I cant find that in the charter.


    From the Charter.
    2. Respect the right of people to hold religious or irreligious beliefs which are different from yours. Forum moderators reserve the right to take action against posts or posters which they deem to be offensive or intended to inflame.

    Here is an idea, how about NO name calling?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,964 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    I prefer "Fearmongering Obnoxious Xenophobes" TBH.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    Conservatives call them 'teabaggers' too so it's not exactly a derogatory term and merely an informal term,not our fault that it draws forth vulgar images and connotations in your mind. :rolleyes:


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Having just checked "teabagging" on urban dictionary, it'll be "teabillies" from now on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    robindch wrote: »
    Having just checked "teabagging" on urban dictionary, it'll be "teabillies" from now on.

    :eek:

    Learn something new everyday!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Did you all miss the few days where Tea Party folks proudly declared themselves Teabaggers before they actually realised what they were saying? God, I never laughed so hard at politics.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,964 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Well, they seem to have the intellectual abilities of a 12-year-old COD player who teabags. :pac:


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Sarky wrote: »
    Did you all miss the few days where Tea Party folks proudly declared themselves Teabaggers before they actually realised what they were saying?
    Video or GTFO!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,049 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    From 2009. I haven't heard Tea Party supporters call themselves that in a long time. For the sake of civility the terminology is against the charter on a couple forums here.

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09/27/top-dem-actually-refers-to-ted-cruz-supporters-as-tea-baggers/

    At this point its become part of the rhetoric in Washington: not something nice you say to refer to someone, unless you're trying to piss them off.
    For those of you keeping score at home, the White House and its allies have in the past few weeks referred to President Obama’s opponents as terrorists, hostage takers, arsonists, and anarchists.

    But you're right I don't think many of them were aware of what would happen if you looked that word up on the internet.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Overheal wrote: »
    From 2009. I haven't heard Tea Party supporters call themselves that in a long time.

    People in trying not to draw attention to hilariously embarrassing f*ckup they made shocker.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,049 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Quite. But that doesn't mean we should perpetuate the "Teabagger" rhetoric.
    Keep your language civil, particularly when referring to other posters and people in the public eye. Using unsavoury language does not add to your argument. The following words are not permitted specifically by this charter:

    Scumbag (or a variant)
    Beard(s)
    Crusties
    Teabagger(s)
    Unwashed hippies (or a variant)
    Zanu-FF
    sheeple
    zionazis



    This is not an exhaustive list, and Moderator discretion remains.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Overheal wrote: »
    Quite. But that doesn't mean we should perpetuate the "Teabagger" rhetoric.

    Politics parent forum charter??? :confused:

    Did I take a wrong turning at Albuquerque?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭legspin


    Overheal wrote: »
    Quite. But that doesn't mean we should perpetuate the "Teabagger" rhetoric.

    I disagree.
    They chose the name themselves. That it had already taken on a different meaning by the time they chose it is neither here nor there. They self-identified as 'Teabaggers' and I don't think we should be expected to do anything that relieves them of their own embarrassment at themselves.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,964 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Politics parent forum charter??? :confused:

    Did I take a wrong turning at Albuquerque?

    Yeah, you're in Heisenberg territory now. :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,438 ✭✭✭TwoShedsJackson


    Yeah, you're in Heisenberg territory now. :pac:

    o-BREAKING-BAD-FINAL-EPISODES-570.jpg?6


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Spoiler: He gives up the drugs trade to become a theoretical physicist at Black Mesa.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,049 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    legspin wrote: »
    I disagree.
    They chose the name themselves. That it had already taken on a different meaning by the time they chose it is neither here nor there. They self-identified as 'Teabaggers' and I don't think we should be expected to do anything that relieves them of their own embarrassment at themselves.
    I'm not turning this into the same debate I already had years ago. The term is derogatory, and the people who use it do so only to wind up others. Other posters on the site, whom do in fact identify or sympathize with the Tea Party Movement, find the term objectionable also. There is a reason other forums have adopted a rule against it - it doesn't add anything to a discussion.

    You might as well argue that because some black people choose to refer to eachother as n*ggers that its ok to use the term for the entire class of people. Likewise, some of the mainstream components of the Teaparty decided to adopt the term, early on in the movement, have since dropped it, and there are still many people who identify with the movement that never adopted the phrase at all. It's current status as a label is again, only to bring the level of discussion down to argumentum ad hominem.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,019 ✭✭✭nagirrac


    While I disagree with the Tea Party movement on their political ideology and tactics, I also have to accept the majority of the vitriol directed at them is from people who are just as extreme as them in terms of ideology. Unlike most on this site I would imagine, I personally know and have spoken to / debated with many who identify with the Tea Party movement and they are absolutely nothing like how they are stereotypically portrayed. Of course they have some high profile and low profile clowns within their ranks but so do all political groups.

    The basic argument of the Tea Party is that it is highly unethical for a state to keep borrowing at the rate the US is borrowing and pass the burden of repaying that debt onto our children and their children, simply to maintain the standard of living of the current generation and to maintain a bloated government that is vastly larger than necessary. It is a very valid ethical and political argument and one that deserves a bit more rational analysis than ridiculing some members of the group. Where both they and those on the opposite extreme in the Democratic party fall down is the failure to understand that the 2 party system in the US only works when you have elected officials willing to compromise their ideology for the greater good. Sadly, there appear fewer and fewer politicians in that category.

    Leaving aside all the noise about religious beliefs and race, the great majority of Tea Party members care passionately about the future of their country, something that cannot be said about the majority of those in politics.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    nagirrac wrote: »
    While I disagree with the Tea Party movement on their political ideology and tactics, I also have to accept the majority of the vitriol directed at them is from people who are just as extreme as them in terms of ideology. Unlike most on this site I would imagine, I personally know and have spoken to / debated with many who identify with the Tea Party movement and they are absolutely nothing like how they are stereotypically portrayed. Of course they have some high profile and low profile clowns within their ranks but so do all political groups.

    The basic argument of the Tea Party is that it is highly unethical for a state to keep borrowing at the rate the US is borrowing and pass the burden of repaying that debt onto our children and their children, simply to maintain the standard of living of the current generation and to maintain a bloated government that is vastly larger than necessary. It is a very valid ethical and political argument and one that deserves a bit more rational analysis than ridiculing some members of the group. Where both they and those on the opposite extreme in the Democratic party fall down is the failure to understand that the 2 party system in the US only works when you have elected officials willing to compromise their ideology for the greater good. Sadly, there appear fewer and fewer politicians in that category.

    Leaving aside all the noise about religious beliefs and race, the great majority of Tea Party members care passionately about the future of their country, something that cannot be said about the majority of those in politics.

    Could you link a video clip of a Tea Partier (in the interests of civility) who doesn't sound like a stubborn, fundamentalist, christian headcase? I'm referring to Glenn Beck.

    Do they protest at the massive cost of defence spending, or is it just healthcare, LGBT's and women's rights? They way they carry on, warrants ridicule and perhaps some arrests. (shutting down the government)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    Tea Party America (BBC Documentary)




    This reminds me of an episode of Louis Theroux. For anyone who hasn't seen any of his stuff, he usually just lets the interviewees talk away, rarely challenging them on anything. The idea being, that most of what they say is so batsh*t crazy, it's better to let it pour and catch it on film. And, since Louis looks so innocent, they probably end up saying more than they should have. Gotcha!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,019 ✭✭✭nagirrac


    Could you link a video clip of a Tea Partier (in the interests of civility) who doesn't sound like a stubborn, fundamentalist, christian headcase? I'm referring to Glenn Beck.

    Do they protest at the massive cost of defence spending, or is it just healthcare, LGBT's and women's rights? They way they carry on, warrants ridicule and perhaps some arrests. (shutting down the government)

    Just a few fact checks:
    Whatever Glenn Beck is, and I would argue he is a media circus act more than anything else, he is not a Christian fundamentalist. He is a Mormon, which is not recognized as a Christian religion by Christians at least, is libertarian politically, and is on the record (2010 and again in 2012 on O'Reilly's Fox News show) as supporting same sex marriage, so he hardly fits well with your profile. The Tea Party is not as homogenous as the stereotyping suggests, it is a populist movement and attracts a broad spectrum of members.

    There are plenty loons like Beck on the left and right, unfortunately some of the more extreme right wing loons have taken over the Republican party while the Democrats for now at least have kept their loons marginalized. Leaving some of the higher profile names aside, it is important to understand why the Tea Party has emerged. While it may be a conservative movement, the political principles that unite the Tea Party are primarily libertarian, which is why Ron Paul is frequently mentioned as their "godfather". One of the major tenets of libertarianism btw is putting a stop to foreign military adventures as part of reducing government.

    The reason the Tea Party appeals to a significant number of people in the US is a symptom of the country fragmenting away from a strong center which existing from the Reagan through Clinton years and towards two more extreme factions. The middle class is vanishing, the older generation by and large want the government to stop taking their money and the younger generation by and large want their government to provide more services. The bad news is the middle class is not coming back anytime soon so compromise is getting less likely in the near term at least.

    The US government has been shut down 17 times since Jimmy Carter's presidency, with Democrats and Republicans participating in the stalemates in equal measure. That's a lot of politicians that should be in jail by your reckoning. On this latter point I tend to agree with you, but possibly for different reasons.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Could you link a video clip of a Tea Partier (in the interests of civility) who doesn't sound like a stubborn, fundamentalist, christian headcase? I'm referring to Glenn Beck.

    Do they protest at the massive cost of defence spending, or is it just healthcare, LGBT's and women's rights? They way they carry on, warrants ridicule and perhaps some arrests. (shutting down the government)

    What would they be arrested for and what crime would they be charged with?


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank




    Penn Jillette (who has a quite a following here) defends the tea party from the usual ad-hominons that the tea party are [insert adhominon attack].
    This led to accusations from the left (see vanity fair interview) that he was a member but he isn't. He can just see through the bull$hit and hypocrites on both sides.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    jank wrote: »
    What would they be arrested for and what crime would they be charged with?
    Whether it was Sarah Palin telling her sycophants to “don’t retreat, reload,” Michelle Bachmann calling for Minnesotans to be “armed and dangerous,” or Sharon Angle citing “second Amendment remedies” against Congress for not acquiescing to teabagger demands, it is always and only teabaggers calling for violence against their “enemies” in government.

    Incitement of violence for one. Some would call it terrorism even. Any possible Timothy McVeighs would love these affirmations.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    jank wrote: »
    Penn Jillette (who has a quite a following here) defends the tea party from the usual ad-hominons that the tea party are [insert admonion attack].
    This led to accusations from the leftm (see vanity fair interview) that he was a member but he isn't. He can just see through the bull$hit and hypocrites on both sides.

    Not sure he has a 'following' here, but he has popped up in the Funny Side of Religion, with some decent quotes. Iirc he has read the bible more than once, and he finds it entertaining. But I never knew until this morning that he was a libertarian.

    From here:
    Glenn Beck to Penn Jillette: “We just need libertarians.” Jillette: “I’ll take a Christian over a Socialist.”

    What does he think of christian socialists? Frankly I'm surprised that he went on Beck's show. A Trojan horse?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    Incitement of violence for one. Some would call it terrorism even. Any possible Timothy McVeighs would love these affirmations.

    Can you be more specific?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    jank wrote: »
    Penn Jillette (who has a quite a following here) defends the tea party from the usual ad-hominons that the tea party are [insert adhominon attack].
    This led to accusations from the left (see vanity fair interview) that he was a member but he isn't. He can just see through the bull$hit and hypocrites on both sides.

    Penn sounds a little bit confused/ inconsistent. He's both a 'looney left' and a 'far right nutcase'? Now I'm confused.

    Vanity Fair interview:
    Eric: Just don’t mention the part about telling the truth to Hitler’s talent bookers, and I’m pretty sure you’ll get a guest slot.

    Penn: Oh, I won’t say a word. But you know what I mean, right? It does have an effect. I go on Glenn Beck as an atheist and talk about atheism. And I have people come up to me and say, “You know, until I saw you on Glenn Beck, speaking so passionately about atheism, I’d never considered that as a moral decision.” That’s incredibly powerful. These are people watching a hardcore Christian show and being exposed to an atheist point of view.

    Eric: Your intentions seem genuine, but I can’t help myself, Penn. Every time I hear you’ve been on Glenn Beck, it makes me a little sick.

    Penn: It makes me sick too! When people come up to me and say they love the show, I feel sick. Because I do disagree with a lot of what he says. But I also feel a little sick whenever people say they saw me on Keith Olbermann.

    Eric: And yet you continue to do it. You know, there’s an easy way to stop making yourself sick.

    Penn: But I think it’s important. I may be the only person who goes on Keith Olbermann and Glenn Beck and says the exact same ****. I am so much more socially liberal than Olbermann will ever be. You can’t believe how pro gay and pro freedom of speech I am. I’m way out beyond anyone on the Left. And as for fiscal conservatism and small government, I’m so much further to the right than Glenn Beck. Nobody is further left and further right than me. As I’m fond of saying, if you want to find utopia, take a sharp right on money and a sharp left on sex and it’s straight ahead.

    Is this what libertarianism is? A mixed bag? If libertarianism was a film, it would be some silent, self-indulgent art piece, that made no sense. Like experimental jazz.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    Is this what libertarianism is? A mixed bag? If libertarianism was a film, it would be some silent, self-indulgent art piece, that made no sense. Like experimental jazz.

    Modern American libertarianism is little more than objectivism, which, as eny fule kno, is little more than an excuse to deify sociopathy as evidenced of Ayn Rand's treatment of US serial killer William Edward Hickman testifies.

    Well, personally the biggest problem that I have with libertarian/anarchist societal systems in general is that there are no effective mechanisms available to curb the behaviour of the powerful, which will trend the systems automatically to oligopoly (look at the economic system of the last forty years, free market, essentially libertarian in nature, which had mass inequality, abuse of process and inequity built in from the very start).


  • Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Garrett Salmon Semiconductor


    Free market? With the govt manipulating everything? Are you serious? :confused:
    Apparently not since you mention things being "built in" to the "free market"


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Yet we live in an age where the state is the largest it has ever been in history yet that is equated to libertarianism? The banks didn't bail out themselves you know.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Free market? With the govt manipulating everything? Are you serious? :confused:
    Apparently not since you mention things being "built in" to the "free market"

    What government manipulation of the market was there in the 1st world between 1974 and 2008, apart from the killing of previous regualtory frameworks (you know, the ones that sparked the longest and most successful period of economic growth in history)?

    Any proper analysis of the economic realities will show little difference between the current day and the "gilded" '20's, which were the supposed heyday for the free market.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭Sulla Felix


    Penn sounds a little bit confused/ inconsistent. He's both a 'looney left' and a 'far right nutcase'? Now I'm confused.

    Vanity Fair interview:



    Is this what libertarianism is? A mixed bag? If libertarianism was a film, it would be some silent, self-indulgent art piece, that made no sense. Like experimental jazz.
    Eh, it comes from the general mess people make of trying to label things left and right.
    Libertarians are generally what we'd consider far left on social issues, and far right on fiscal matters.
    So instead of the usual dichotomy of (big government & social freedom) ie liberal VS (small government & backwards socially) ie conservatism, libertarians would espouse small government in every sense. Ie: so low taxes, little or no social safety net, but pro gay rights, abortion rights all the stuff "proper" conservatives oppose.


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