RTE Radio 1 on 252!

L1011 · 19-12-2014 10:10am

AwaitYourReply wrote: »

I think Fr. Brian D'Arcy usually has his finger on the pulse. He isn't a man that is easily fooled or one to swallow PR spin.

Doesn't mean he has the slightest clue when it comes to anything commercial, though. As he's clearly about as wide of the mark as possible here.

AwaitYourReply · 19-12-2014 11:02am

L1011 wrote: »

Doesn't mean he has the slightest clue when it comes to anything commercial, though. As he's clearly about as wide of the mark as possible here.

Fr. Brian D'Arcy knows that this sudden decision announcement made last September with all it's spin as a means to save money was made as a commercial decision by an organisation that can often be full of double standards.

The replacement of Mooney next February on Radio 1 by Ray D'Arcy did not come cheap and is typical of RTÉ speaking on both sides of it's mouth when it comes to saving scarce financial resources. This presenter had been long enough at RTÉ prior to Today FM and had knocked and knocked at the door of RTÉ Radio and was just left there so he eventually left! Of course we will have to wait for 3 Years to hear how much RTÉ had to fork out to secure him and one thing is certain, he did not come cheap! :rolleyes:

L1011 · 19-12-2014 1:14pm

AwaitYourReply wrote: »

Fr. Brian D'Arcy knows that this sudden decision announcement made last September with all it's spin as a means to save money was made as a commercial decision by an organisation that can often be full of double standards.

Everyone knows that - except him. As he's the one claiming its so they can flog off the frequency, which is borderline lunatic in the rambling levels.

Its being turned off for cost reasons, that's it.

padd b1975 · 19-12-2014 1:16pm

EXTENDED UNTIL AT LEAST 2017!!

Radio_Fan_67 · 19-12-2014 1:33pm

www.rte.ie/about/en/press-office/press-releases/2014/1219/667934-rte-radio-1-announces-extension-to-longwave-transition/ I think it is rather silly kicking the can down the road until 2017, The same people will be able to make the very same arguments in 2017.

Banjoxed · 19-12-2014 1:43pm

Ordinary Irish people in Britain 1, Middle class South Dublin Libertarians, Nil.

padd b1975 · 19-12-2014 2:02pm

Radio_Fan_67 wrote: »

www.rte.ie/about/en/press-office/press-releases/2014/1219/667934-rte-radio-1-announces-extension-to-longwave-transition/ I think it is rather silly kicking the can down the road until 2017, The same people will be able to make the very same arguments in 2017.

Not really, when the time comes they can quietly announce a further extension without the negative PR which the bullyboy tactics of the initial announcement created.

Radio_Fan_67 · 19-12-2014 2:13pm

padd b1975 wrote: »

Not really, when the time comes they can quietly announce a further extension without the negative PR which the bullyboy tactics of the initial announcement created.

At the end of the day, Longwave is dead, The germans are switching off all their lw transmitters in 2 weeks time. I expect new lw radio sets in shops and in cars will be almost extinct by the end of the decade.

L1011 · 19-12-2014 5:04pm

Banjoxed wrote: »

Ordinary Irish people in Britain 1, Middle class South Dublin Libertarians, Nil.

You've got a very strange and I suspect entirely unsupportable view here...

AwaitYourReply · 19-12-2014 5:51pm

Radio_Fan_67 wrote: »

At the end of the day, Longwave is dead, The germans are switching off all their lw transmitters in 2 weeks time. I expect new lw radio sets in shops and in cars will be almost extinct by the end of the decade.

I saw the public announcement in relation to RTÉ Radio 1 latest broadcasting extension of the Longwave/LW 252KHz on the RTÉ News Now headlines ticker a few hours ago but I never got a chance to post or respond back til now.

I do not think that I or many others (if any) have ever mentioned that Longwave is a modern up to date technology or that it had a long bright future. However; the fact is that RTÉ and those individuals who scoffed at others who advocated for the service to be given a further reprieve lost the argument over the initial abrupt decision and short timescale involved.

Main reason for the latest postponement until at least 2017 is probably that many of the LW252 listeners were unlikely to go digital within the required time frame. Of course it is a relatively small number in the overall context of listeners to RTÉ Radio 1 but it was expecting too much too fast for those older loyal long time listeners to make the switch to go digital. Had RTÉ bothered to engage with the listeners of the LW 252 service in advance they would have been able to avoid this embarassing latest postponement but it seems that RTÉ never really considered their views and feedback until after making their announcement.

Hopefully RTÉ and other agencies will now assist those listeners in making the transition to other platforms more smoothly between now and 2017 as the actual day for close down of LW 252KHz will eventually come in due course now that it has been publicly been well flagged in advance to all concerned.

AwaitYourReply · 19-12-2014 6:04pm

L1011 wrote: »

Everyone knows that - except him. As he's the one claiming its so they can flog off the frequency, which is borderline lunatic in the rambling levels.

Its being turned off for cost reasons, that's it.

Ah sure we all know the decision was based on cost reasons - It's the whole manner and very short timescale when it was first announced that was ridiculous especially in light of the audience types that have come to rely so much on receiving RTÉ Radio 1 in this way. Most of them would have accessed the service previously via Medium Wave ( MW) in the days before Radio 1 moved to Longwave (LW). Well given today's announcement RTÉ have finally accepted that many of the affected listeners need more time to adapt and it will remain on until at least 2017 in some shape or form or so it seems.

Radio_Fan_67 · 19-12-2014 6:49pm

RTE say "RTÉ believes that operation of this service beyond 2017 is not tenable
since significant capital costs for
replacement of infrastructure will
arise" What replacement of infrastructure though ?

AwaitYourReply · 19-12-2014 7:15pm

Radio_Fan_67 wrote: »

RTE say "RTÉ believes that operation of this service beyond 2017 is not tenable
since significant capital costs for
replacement of infrastructure will
arise" What replacement of infrastructure though ?

Perhaps RTÉ are referring to the lifespan of certain parts/components involved in the transmission of the LW signal here. I know it is a major issue with the broadcasting of BBC Radio 4 LW 198KHz service so they have lowered the power in order to prolong the lifespan of rare equipment parts left in the world.

To be honest, I am not sure who briefs RTÉ on the best way forward taking into account the various strands most likely to be affected and how best to approach change management in the smoothest possible approach while keeping people on board once a tough decision such as a cut back or shut down of any service is agreed.

I am glad for those mainly elderly folk many of whom are not up to speed with digital/online changes which most of us just take for granted. Even if you went out and bought them the equipment and handed it to them, some in this category would still have great difficulty trying to cope with set up and tuning in to a certain channel and returning to it again and again. This was always going to be the obvious scenario so back-up and support assistance is the best way to help people make any change going forward.

AwaitYourReply · 19-12-2014 7:20pm

As reported by Radio Today:

http://radiotoday.ie/2014/12/rte-announce-extension-to-longwave-transmission/

L1011 · 19-12-2014 10:17pm

Radio_Fan_67 wrote: »

RTE say "RTÉ believes that operation of this service beyond 2017 is not tenable
since significant capital costs for
replacement of infrastructure will
arise" What replacement of infrastructure though ?

Nearing 30 year old mast for one thing

Banjoxed · 19-12-2014 10:29pm

L1011 wrote: »

Nearing 30 year old mast for one thing

The BBC's Lisnagarvey TX mast is seventy-eight years old so on that basis there may be a bit more mileage in the Clarkstown mast yet..

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisnagarvey_transmitting_station

Radio_Fan_67 · 19-12-2014 10:46pm

I wonder are RTE kicking themselves for not doing the longwave switch off the russian way ?

Fuzzy Clam · 19-12-2014 11:01pm

Banjoxed wrote: »

The BBC's Lisnagarvey TX mast is seventy-eight years old so on that basis there may be a bit more mileage in the Clarkstown mast yet..

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisnagarvey_transmitting_station

Different type of mast.

Chances are Clarkestown will require new insulators, as what they had to do in Tullamore.

AwaitYourReply · 20-12-2014 1:24am

Radio_Fan_67 wrote: »

I wonder are RTE kicking themselves for not doing the longwave switch off the russian way ?

This would largely depend on to whom exactly you are talking to from the RTÉ Parish as I suspect that the initial short notice closure announcement of Radio 1 going off on Longwave was not greeted enthusiastically by all within the organisation. Those charged with making harsh cut backs may come to regret the whole way this particular one was handled given the negative publicity and further possible delays which may arise down the line.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens between now and the new 2017 deadline which I do not think has yet been publicly outlined if I am not mistaken...This may well run and run!

Radio_Fan_67 · 20-12-2014 1:37am

The Department of Foreign Affairs and
Trade has announced it is prepared to
work with RTÉ to commission specific
research to understand the community
in the UK who listen to the Longwave
service; to learn in greater detail
about listeners’ circumstances and of
the technologies they use. This
research will be conducted next year,
will be funded by the DFA and will
include perspectives from community
groups representing the Irish elderly
in the UK. This research is expected
to inform the options and information
that will accompany the final closure
of the service.

AwaitYourReply · 20-12-2014 1:44am

Radio_Fan_67 wrote: »

The Department of Foreign Affairs and
Trade has announced it is prepared to
work with RTÉ to commission specific
research to understand the community
in the UK who listen to the Longwave
service; to learn in greater detail
about listeners’ circumstances and of
the technologies they use. This
research will be conducted next year,
will be funded by the DFA and will
include perspectives from community
groups representing the Irish elderly
in the UK. This research is expected
to inform the options and information
that will accompany the final closure
of the service.

That's right - In other words, they are now going to need to thoroughly research and address valid concerns of the Irish elderly in the UK who are reliant on LW 252KHz for RTÉ Radio 1. This really should have been done from the very start but hey better late than never.

Radio_Fan_67 · 20-12-2014 1:58am

Problem is though the Minister for Foreign Affairs is Biased on this matter http://mobile.twitter.com/CharlieFlanagan/status/545982553560481794?p=v

AwaitYourReply · 20-12-2014 2:52am

Radio_Fan_67 wrote: »

Problem is though the Minister for Foreign Affairs is Biased on this matter http://mobile.twitter.com/CharlieFlanagan/status/545982553560481794?p=v

Having just looked at the tweet - The Minister for Foreign Affairs expressed his own personal preference on the matter. Surely it is better to know exactly what a government Minister's preference is on a given subject rather than he/she claiming to be "independent and neutral" in theory but not necessarily neutral in practice. If more of our elected representatives were as upfront and honest it would be a healthy thing because at least people know where this Minister stands on the subject and those from the opposite viewpoint can tease out the issues and lobby their case to the appropriate department(s) and any other relevant agencies more effectively.

Are we seriously suggesting that a government Minister should not be permitted to communicate his/her views on something of a controversial nature? Surely we should facilitate and welcome differing views from all sides of the debate in a mature democratic society such as ours as we are not living in Russia thank God. If the policy intention is completely sound and rock solid then nobody should fear anything as it should succeed on the basis of it's own merits at the end of the day.

Mycroft H · 20-12-2014 3:22am

Well at least he's not biased towards closing it down. Keeping the status quo here is the better option while there can be alternatives made available.

AwaitYourReply · 20-12-2014 3:39am

Mycroft H wrote: »

Well at least he's not biased towards closing it down. Keeping the status quo here is the better option while there can be alternatives made available.

This is true and I also share your views on the matter. I know of enough older folk who find such changes very challenging altogether. My father could learn to adapt if I showed him how but my mother is completely hopeless with all technology and gadgets and despite my best efforts she seems incapable of retaining new methods of accessing a channel via new platforms.

My uncle who is Irish lives in UK is hopeless with all the digital equipment and forget the internet or texting - he can barely answer his bog standard mobile handset.

This is a real thorny issue for some folk out there and I am glad that finally there is a bit of dignity and respect shown to those pleading for more time to adjust. Let's help them make the transition in the easiest way possible if and when Radio 1 LW 252KHz shuts down altogether between now and 2017.

Radio_Fan_67 · 20-12-2014 1:26pm

In a way it is very disturbing that a small loud lobby group and the catholic church can make RTE do a u-turn on a 250k+ decision. was reading today that they got "over 300" written complaints about closing longwave, you would swear with all the hoo-ha that they were getting 1000s of complaints.

Infoanon · 20-12-2014 4:04pm

AwaitYourReply wrote: »

Having just looked at the tweet - The Minister for Foreign Affairs expressed his own personal preference on the matter.

When was it decided that a ministers view was a personal view !

while all the emphasis has been on the Diaspora, there are bigger issues with the loss of Long Wave closer to home with the lack of DAB coverage across a lot of the country.

Another unanswered question is how many of those 300kws is 252 currently operating at ? Its been rumoured that the power has been reduced to as low as 50kws.

Radio_Fan_67 · 20-12-2014 4:48pm

Infoanon wrote: »

how many of those 300kws is 252 currently operating at ?

150kw daytime, 75kw Nighttime.

Banjoxed · 20-12-2014 6:17pm

AwaitYourReply wrote: »

Having just looked at the tweet - The Minister for Foreign Affairs expressed his own personal preference on the matter. Surely it is better to know exactly what a government Minister's preference is on a given subject rather than he/she claiming to be "independent and neutral" in theory but not necessarily neutral in practice. If more of our elected representatives were as upfront and honest it would be a healthy thing because at least people know where this Minister stands on the subject and those from the opposite viewpoint can tease out the issues and lobby their case to the appropriate department(s) and any other relevant agencies more effectively.

Are we seriously suggesting that a government Minister should not be permitted to communicate his/her views on something of a controversial nature? Surely we should facilitate and welcome differing views from all sides of the debate in a mature democratic society such as ours as we are not living in Russia thank God. If the policy intention is completely sound and rock solid then nobody should fear anything as it should succeed on the basis of it's own merits at the end of the day.

As Piaras Mac Éinrí says in today's Irish Times article on present day emigration "None of this [the persistence of emigration in Irish society] excuses the complacency of successive politicians of nearly all parties who have described emigration as a 'lifestyle choice' or sought in other ways to minimise the impact of emigration on Irish society".

I welcome that finally an Irish government has appointed someone who does give a damn about our people outside Ireland.

Radio_Fan_67 · 20-12-2014 7:47pm

It would be very interesting to know how many people actually listen to longwave 252 in the uk and how often they listen.

Hotblack Desiato · 20-12-2014 9:30pm

Radio_Fan_67 wrote: »

www.rte.ie/about/en/press-office/press-releases/2014/1219/667934-rte-radio-1-announces-extension-to-longwave-transition/ I think it is rather silly kicking the can down the road until 2017, The same people will be able to make the very same arguments in 2017.

Bit of a hint there in that article that they are considering going on Freeview.

But using the word 'transition' implies that equivalent alternative services are available, Freeview would be better than satellite but it's still tied to a TV and no use for mobile listening.

Radio_Fan_67 · 20-12-2014 9:53pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Bit of a hint there in that article that they are considering going on Freeview.

Yeah, an rte spokesperson told the irish post last month that they were looking into freeview www.irishpost.co.uk/news/rte-radio-1s-longwave-service-priceless-link-ireland-irish-abroad , The campaigners have always said though that radio on the television is not an option for the elderly because that involves "sitting still and staring at a blank screen"

Hotblack Desiato · 20-12-2014 10:16pm

You're implying that 'radio on the TV' is an acceptable equivalent to LW, while snipping the part of my post which explained why it's not :rolleyes:

Freeview would be a welcome move (assuming the cost is acceptable) but isn't an adequate replacement on its own.

Radio_Fan_67 · 20-12-2014 10:22pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

You're implying that 'radio on the TV' is an acceptable equivalent to LW,.

There won't ever be an "equivalent" of longwave though. People who are hoping for Digital Radio Mondiale or 567 to be switched back on need to get real.

L1011 · 21-12-2014 1:27am

Banjoxed wrote: »

The BBC's Lisnagarvey TX mast is seventy-eight years old so on that basis there may be a bit more mileage in the Clarkstown mast yet..

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisnagarvey_transmitting_station

Maintenance isn't free. Two very different masts can't be compared for design life either

Banjoxed · 21-12-2014 1:48am

Radio_Fan_67 wrote: »

There won't ever be an "equivalent" of longwave though. People who are hoping for Digital Radio Mondiale or 567 to be switched back on need to get real.

They are? I haven't seen as many straw men since Worzel Gummidge was last made.

Banjoxed · 21-12-2014 1:50am

L1011 wrote: »

Maintenance isn't free. Two very different masts can't be compared for design life either

They can't? So, a 1988 mast was deliberately designed to have less of a life than Lisnagarvey in 1936 (to say nothing of Athlone in 1932)?

Would be fascinated to see your source for that assertion.

AwaitYourReply · 21-12-2014 1:54am

Radio_Fan_67 wrote: »

Yeah, an rte spokesperson told the irish post last month that they were looking into freeview www.irishpost.co.uk/news/rte-radio-1s-longwave-service-priceless-link-ireland-irish-abroad , The campaigners have always said though that radio on the television is not an option for the elderly because that involves "sitting still and staring at a blank screen"

In all fairness, you are cribbing about people not getting "real" in relation to Longwave/DRM/567KHz which is all very fine but it is just as silly for you to think it should be a satisfactory solution if those elderly listeners who only want to hear their favourite programmes on Radio 1 in certain areas to have to switch on the TV set. Radio via the TV set is not as user-friendly if people have been used to being able to listen to it around the house, in the car and so on.

I imagine your attitude is, be grateful for whatever crumbs are thrown your way as you are too old and do not count in society any more especially because you no longer live in Ireland. :rolleyes:

AwaitYourReply · 21-12-2014 2:09am

Infoanon wrote: »

When was it decided that a ministers view was a personal view !

while all the emphasis has been on the Diaspora, there are bigger issues with the loss of Long Wave closer to home with the lack of DAB coverage across a lot of the country.

Another unanswered question is how many of those 300kws is 252 currently operating at ? Its been rumoured that the power has been reduced to as low as 50kws.

I think you will find that Ministers often air views that are not necessarily approved by their parliamentary party AND/OR political party. They will usually indicate that this is just my own personal view during an interview or they may be forced by the party to issue a statement afterwards if they crossed the line and the political party in question wants the Minister AND/OR TD to clarify that it was just a "personal view" that was articulated by me.

I totally agree that DAB is sub-standard across much of Ireland and should enjoy equal priority in terms of a roll-out. FM is not always acceptable either in certain areas of Ireland. Maybe they should have chosen those well known FM geographic problem spots where the signal is usually unreliable/unavailable for their DAB trials?

marno21 · 21-12-2014 6:00am

If RTE are genuinely serious about keeping 252 on air until 2017 they would want to return 252 to an acceptable level.

Tonight in Western Europe 153, 162, 177, 183, 189, 198, 207, 216, 225, 234, 243, 261 and 270 are all carrying intelligable audio. The only unintelligable stations are 252 which is carrying a mixture of Irish and Algerian audio and 270 which is carrying a mixture of Bulgarian and Turkiminstaniese (?) audio, which is understandable considering the distance from the TX's involved. If Antenna's post about DRM means that Chaine 3 will be continuing DRM tests then RTE would want to be restoring decent power for reception to be good for all.

Meanwhile 567 is only carrying a weak Russian signal. ...

Fuzzy Clam · 21-12-2014 9:23am

marno21 wrote: »

If RTE are genuinely serious about keeping 252 on air until 2017 they would want to return 252 to an acceptable level.

Tonight in Western Europe 153, 162, 177, 183, 189, 198, 207, 216, 225, 234, 243, 261 and 270 are all carrying intelligable audio. The only unintelligable stations are 252 which is carrying a mixture of Irish and Algerian audio and 270 which is carrying a mixture of Bulgarian and Turkiminstaniese (?) audio, which is understandable considering the distance from the TX's involved. If Antenna's post about DRM means that Chaine 3 will be continuing DRM tests then RTE would want to be restoring decent power for reception to be good for all.

Meanwhile 567 is only carrying a weak Russian signal. ...

Even if RTE were to restore full power, the difference in signal would not be enough to counter the interference from Algeria.

Fuzzy Clam · 21-12-2014 9:29am

Banjoxed wrote: »

They can't? So, a 1988 mast was deliberately designed to have less of a life than Lisnagarvey in 1936 (to say nothing of Athlone in 1932)?

Would be fascinated to see your source for that assertion.

You do understand the difference between a 99 meter mast and a 248 meter mast, don't you?
You do understand the difference in not just the height but also the construction of these masts, don't you?

Or are just a troll?

L1011 · 21-12-2014 10:26am

Banjoxed wrote: »

They can't? So, a 1988 mast was deliberately designed to have less of a life than Lisnagarvey in 1936 (to say nothing of Athlone in 1932)?

Would be fascinated to see your source for that assertion.

They're not identical masts for starters so no valid comparison can be made. One is over twice as high too.

The older something gets the more maintenance it requires, particularly something the can corrode

Hotblack Desiato · 21-12-2014 7:39pm

Radio_Fan_67 wrote: »

There won't ever be an "equivalent" of longwave though.

Exactly. Nothing can provide the same coverage area, reception indoors and out on cheap portable sets and in cars, without data charges or being tied to a TV aerial or satellite dish.

Given the cost of keeping it on is not astronomical, I think LW should be kept and it should be restored back to its proper power level and/or moved away from the Algeria frequency. If RTE aren't willing to cover the cost of what is mostly a service for emigrants, then the DFA should, imho.

Banjoxed · 21-12-2014 8:44pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Exactly. Nothing can provide the same coverage area, reception indoors and out on cheap portable sets and in cars, without data charges or being tied to a TV aerial or satellite dish.

Given the cost of keeping it on is not astronomical, I think LW should be kept and it should be restored back to its proper power level and/or moved away from the Algeria frequency. If RTE aren't willing to cover the cost of what is mostly a service for emigrants, then the DFA should, imho.

RTÉ isn't unique it seems in rowing back from terminating long wave quickly; this regarding a Polish radio station that has decided not to cancel its LW service due to its accessibility abroad for expatriates.

http://swldxbulgaria.blogspot.ie/2014/12/polish-radio-wont-terminate-its.html?m=1

total former · 21-12-2014 9:38pm

Banjoxed wrote: »

RTÉ isn't unique it seems in rowing back from terminating long wave quickly; this regarding a Polish radio station that has decided not to cancel its LW service due to its accessibility abroad for expatriates.

But that article says they get 40% of their audience via long wave. If RTE were getting that they wouldn't switch it off either.

Fuzzy Clam · 21-12-2014 11:14pm

Banjoxed wrote: »

RTÉ isn't unique it seems in rowing back from terminating long wave quickly; this regarding a Polish radio station that has decided not to cancel its LW service due to its accessibility abroad for expatriates.

http://swldxbulgaria.blogspot.ie/2014/12/polish-radio-wont-terminate-its.html?m=1

If i understand that blog correctly, there is no rowback as there never was an intention to terminate their LW service.

AwaitYourReply · 22-12-2014 1:28am

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

You do understand the difference between a 99 meter mast and a 248 meter mast, don't you?
You do understand the difference in not just the height but also the construction of these masts, don't you?

Or are just a troll?

There is no need for you to be so rude and impolite towards another person's point of view whether or not the person in question is correct or incorrect on the technical aspects of the debate - it still is no excuse.

If you could have the manners to convey your opinions without attempting to label those who have different views to yourself in such negative terms as well in your closing sentence.:(

AwaitYourReply · 22-12-2014 1:38am

Banjoxed wrote: »

RTÉ isn't unique it seems in rowing back from terminating long wave quickly

Our neighbours across the Irish Sea and the UK's national public service broadcasting service, the BBC attempted to shut down BBC Radio 4 on Longwave 198KHz broadcasting frequency a number of years ago but after a major outcry from those who relied a lot on the Radio 4 LW broadcasts, they eventually decided to remain on Longwave.

Fuzzy Clam · 22-12-2014 2:22am

AwaitYourReply wrote: »

Our neighbours across the Irish Sea and the UK's national public service broadcasting service, the BBC attempted to shut down BBC Radio 4 on Longwave 198KHz broadcasting frequency a number of years ago but after a major outcry from those who relied a lot on the Radio 4 LW broadcasts, they eventually decided to remain on Longwave.

No they didn't. They said that 198 would continue until the end of their charter (2017?) or until the valves were no longer available. After an "outcry", They bought up all available valves which may keep it going until about 2020.

RTE Radio 1 on 252!

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