‘OCCUPY Wall Street’ protestors on Dame Street

Crazy Horse 6 · 09-10-2011 9:50pm

Just back from the protest and hoping to make it back down Tuesday evening after work.

Permabear · 09-10-2011 9:56pm

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20Cent · 09-10-2011 10:04pm

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Really? AIB/BOI/Anglo own FG/Labour ministers that got voted in
thats news to me :rolleyes:

Since the Regulator/Centralbank is on Dame street that should tell you that the need for reform lies with this state owned agency, the same agency whose employees collected paychecks while not doing their jobs.

Pretty much, do you remember "not a penny more for Anglo", tougher regulation and a cut on pay/bonuses for the bank executives? All these policies were dropped once FG/Lab got elected. Same in the US with Obama, take the money and influence out of politics.

So you reckon they are in the right place then good.

T

20Cent · 09-10-2011 10:05pm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

lol, wrong thread they're not too interested in the Dame Street protest

Its part of a worldwide movement.

Scofflaw · 09-10-2011 10:08pm

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

If it's a vote of no confidence in the 'establishment' side of the sector, that still doesn't make it anything other than a protest within the financial sector, and against government actions in the sector.

Moreover, what people are protesting about is the way the financial sector appears to dominate democratic government - and the 'short-selling movement', if it is a movement, is part of exactly such domination.

cordially,
Scofflaw

20Cent · 09-10-2011 10:20pm

Check it, Occupy Dame Street doing a national service with their debt clock.
Should be there permanently.

http://twitpic.com/6xv7z3

Nate--IRL-- · 09-10-2011 10:22pm

20Cent wrote: »

Check it, Occupy Dame Street doing a national service with their debt clock.
Should be there permanently.

http://twitpic.com/6xv7z3

I like that. That's a good idea.

Nate

partyatmygaff · 09-10-2011 10:29pm

EI_Flyboy wrote: »

People don't protest when they do or don't understand issues, they protest when they feel pain. Maybe they didn't feel the pain in 2008 and are only beginning to feel it now.

It's no one's fault but their own that they are reactive rather than proactive. They should have anticipated that what happened in 2008 may have affected them in later years and they should have protested then when actually achieving a change was possible. Protesting because they "feel the pain" now is just a nuisance. An aimless "Let's all rant together in public" protest without any clear objectives is just an obstruction to other people's day to day lives.

This protest isn't just 30 people in tents on Dame st.(looked more like 80 to me when I strolled past lastnight), it's global, connected through facebook and twitter. It may seem aimless right now but whatever direction it takes, I'd imagine it'll be steered globally.

Actually, it is just 30/80 people in tents on Dame Street relative to the rest of the population. The general population (The people who really can make a difference) do not give a damn.

Let's look at the world's first ever social media orchestrated protest/revolution. I'm sure we all know what happened this spring in Egypt and the massive protests that occurred (And still occur nearly every week) in Tahrir Square.

They organised their protests over the internet in a country with

Far less internet penetration than Ireland and the US.
A government that cut off internet access and communication links to its population.
A brutal police force.
And daily curfews with threats of violence made to enforce it.

Yet in spite of all of this people turned up in their millions to protest in the square. They joined the protest because the protest had a purpose, a clear and well-defined objective. It was this clear objective that sustained them throughout.

Now let's get back to the situation at hand. What we have here are a group of people who more than likely live relatively comfortable lives out on the middle of a busy street camping out in expensive tests without any real purpose or end goal. No sensible person is going to go camp out on the streets to join an aimless protest against the "establishment".

Permabear · 09-10-2011 10:32pm

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FreudianSlippers · 09-10-2011 10:49pm

20Cent wrote: »

Its part of a worldwide movement.

Oh really, I hadn't heard anything about it. :rolleyes:

Doesn't change the fact that there is a more appropriate thread for your post.

Scofflaw · 09-10-2011 10:59pm

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I wouldn't disagree. Still, describing it as a movement against the financial sector is very inaccurate.

Permabear wrote: »

Such a conflict can only arise when democratic governments have declared an interest in propping up the stock prices and crumbling balance sheets of dysfunctional financial institutions. Short-sellers have an interest in exposing the "emperor's new clothes" nature of this propping up. This is not about short-sellers vs governments as much as it is about attempts to protect a fiction vs. attempts to expose that fiction to market forces.

Or one could say, an attempt to protect those institutions against market forces vs market forces betting that they'll fail to do so. Are you really claiming that there's some kind of moral action here? Because, no offence, that would be somewhat more than mildly risible.

cordially,
Scofflaw

20Cent · 09-10-2011 11:04pm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Oh really, I hadn't heard anything about it. :rolleyes:

Doesn't change the fact that there is a more appropriate thread for your post.

Well it is in dozens of cities in the US and many around the world.
Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean much, bet there is a lot you haven't heard about.

The thread is called "OCCUPY Wall Street’ protestors on Dame Street" think that its up to the mods re where to post, thanks.

FreudianSlippers · 09-10-2011 11:09pm

20Cent wrote: »

Well it is in dozens of cities in the US and many around the world.
Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean much, bet there is a lot you haven't heard about.

The thread is called "OCCUPY Wall Street’ protestors on Dame Street" think that its up to the mods re where to post, thanks.

Broken sarcasm detector?

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Now let's get back to the situation at hand. What we have here are a group of people who more than likely live relatively comfortable lives out on the middle of a busy street camping out in expensive tests without any real purpose or end goal. No sensible person is going to go camp out on the streets to join an aimless protest against the "establishment".

Exactly, this is a total "down with this sort of thing" protest by people with little to no clue about the real world.
I'm sure all of the occupation of Dame street will end when it's time to go collect their dole.

20Cent · 09-10-2011 11:13pm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Broken sarcasm detector?

Sarcasm doesn't work that well with text based communication:

Great posts by the way.

FreudianSlippers · 09-10-2011 11:22pm

20Cent wrote: »

Sarcasm doesn't work that well with text based communication:

Great posts by the way.

You've read all 7,002 of my posts? Didn't know you were such a fan; but thank you kindly!

Anyway, I presume that some of these people are "camping" on private property and will be removed before the morning? I haven't gone down to see, but from some of the pictures it looks as if they are not all in public areas.
Surely there will be some arrests under Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1994.

EI_Flyboy · 09-10-2011 11:24pm

partyatmygaff wrote: »

It's no one's fault but their own that they are reactive rather than proactive. They should have anticipated that what happened in 2008 may have affected them in later years and they should have protested then when actually achieving a change was possible. Protesting because they "feel the pain" now is just a nuisance. An aimless "Let's all rant together in public" protest without any clear objectives is just an obstruction to other people's day to day lives.

People are reactive, they don't anticipate how implemented changes are going to affect them down the road, usually they believe what the government tells them and they hope for the best. It takes for them to actually feel pain from the failure of these changes before they get up off their holes to protest. Most days of the year no one out of our whole population is bothered to camp outside the central bank. Thirty people who are commited to camping there longterm is a huge jump from zero. It's a small number, they are no doubt joined by more during the day, but it's the first bubble as the pot starts to boil.

Either things get better and they go away or things get worse and their numbers increase. They are there, you can't argue them away and neither saying that they're a nuisance and aimless doesn't change the fact that they represent a much larger portion of society that feels the way they do to either a greater or lesser extent. They're there, only time will tell if they bring about change and if they do, it will be global change.

The thing about derision is it's a double edged blade and there's nothing funny about this situation.

Ben Moore · 09-10-2011 11:34pm

It is a strange thing to reflect upon but many of our ancestors died fighting to give this country it's independence and to give us the right to govern ourselves, then DeValera refused to let Ireland engage with the rest of the world which held our country back for decades in an economic sense.

When we did finally engage with the rest of Europe and the world to produce the Celtic Tiger our democratically elected politicians helped the property and banking tycoons run riot over our finances leaving the country in the state it is now.

This protest is against greed and accountability but there is no simple way out of the problem.

If we anger Europe we will have no support whatsoever and will end up falling off its edge and be left with no moey at all to pay for the services we take for granted.

To quote Eddie Murphy from Trading Places
"Yeah. You know, it occurs to me that the best way you hurt rich people is by turning them into poor people."

Maybe Take your money out of the banks or vote for the people you believe in, democracy seems to be broken but that is not the case. People are not using it properly.

Making noise on the side of a street is like a child having a tantrum because their parents will not let it play with a favourite toy.

Grow up and be more constructive.

Ben Moore · 09-10-2011 11:36pm

20Cent wrote: »

Sarcasm doesn't work that well with text based communication:

Great posts by the way.

I understood the sarcasm fully!!

partyatmygaff · 09-10-2011 11:38pm

EI_Flyboy wrote: »

People are reactive, they don't anticipate how implemented changes are going to affect them down the road, usually they believe what the government tells them and they hope for the best. It takes for them to actually feel pain from the failure of these changes before they get up off their holes to protest. Most days of the year no one out of our whole population is bothered to camp outside the central bank. Thirty people who are commited to camping there longterm is a huge jump from zero. It's a small number, they are no doubt joined by more during the day, but it's the first bubble as the pot starts to boil.

Either things get better and they go away or things get worse and their numbers increase. They are there, you can't argue them away and neither saying that they're a nuisance and aimless doesn't change the fact that they represent a much larger portion of society that feels the way they do to either a greater or lesser extent. They're there, only time will tell if they bring about change and if they do, it will be global change.

The thing about derision is it's a double edged blade and there's nothing funny about this situation.

Sounds like a lot of empty rhetoric.

If people really supported them, they'd be out there with them from day one. There's nothing stopping anyone. Relatively speaking, going out to camp with a group of like-minded people on Dame Street is perfectly safe. Why isn't the general population joining them?

Crazy Horse 6 · 09-10-2011 11:39pm

Ben Moore wrote: »

It is a strange thing to reflect upon but many of our ancestors died fighting to give this country it's independence and to give us the right to govern ourselves, then DeValera refused to let Ireland engage with the rest of the world which held our country back for decades in an economic sense.

When we did finally engage with the rest of Europe and the world to produce the Celtic Tiger our democratically elected politicians helped the property and banking tycoons run riot over our finances leaving the country in the state it is now.

This protest is against greed and accountability but there is no simple way out of the problem.

If we anger Europe we will have no support whatsoever and will end up falling off its edge and be left with no moey at all to pay for the services we take for granted.

To quote Eddie Murphy from Trading Places
"Yeah. You know, it occurs to me that the best way you hurt rich people is by turning them into poor people."

Maybe Take your money out of the banks or vote for the people you believe in, democracy seems to be broken but that is not the case. People are not using it properly.

Making noise on the side of a street is like a child having a tantrum because their parents will not let it play with a favourite toy.

Grow up and be more constructive.

So what would you do?

Ben Moore · 09-10-2011 11:41pm

Maybe start with a referendum on the matter, the government can't ignore that.

sdanseo · 10-10-2011 12:01am

1. The ECB and IMF are here for the forseeable - there is no way around that in the stupid political system we live by in this fundamentally retarded union of states.

2. We're stagnating. In a perfect world we would be leading by example and not living below our means. How the hell is an ordinary joe supposed to be incentivised not to borrow money they don't need when the state is borrowing almost as much as it earns, each and every year?

We need to invest now to get the books balanced again as soon as possible. We need to create jobs. A great way to do this is PPP schemes. Invest in our public infrastructure like roads, railways, waterways and let the private companies foot the bill. This in turn provides jobs and raises the tax take. An ideal place to start is the railways - get the country 3/4 high speed rail lines, spend a billion doing it, employ 20,000 people for 3 years in the process and cut the dole queues by a couple of percentage points. In return for building it, the company gets to operate it, at a profit, with a nominal return to the state in the form of a licence fee. Just an example of how we can create jobs and income with very little outlay. At the same time, we'd eliminate the money pit that is CIÉ. Win fúcking win.

3. They do have a point with regard to our natural resources - the licence terms for the Corrib field give an astoundingly poor return to the exchequer based on the amount of gas Shell reckon is out there. That they have to date brought none of it ashore is borderline irrelevant - it WILL be brought ashore and it should be taxed to the hilt when it is. Better again, the company should be paid a flat fee to harvest the gas which would remain the property of the state, rather than the other way around. But that's the Irish government for you - prefer to take a few million now for a licence fee than make - potentially - trillions over the next 100 years.

This does not make me a supporter of Shell to Sea by the way - a quick look back throughn my posts will show the opposite. I have no objection to Shell building a terminal, or to the way in which the licence is worked, but I do think we should be seeking a better return for the rights given out. People who blindly and stubbornly protest with no hope of recourse as a result are idiots, plain and simple. Anyone who sees it as their god-given right to live at least 50 miles from a pipeline or to block a huge infrastructural project from going ahead because it affects a few select trees needs their head examined.

Peanut · 10-10-2011 12:30am

Permabear wrote: »

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Let's not forget that one of the most successful short-selling outfits also connived in falsifying the Greek entry to the Eurozone.

Not exactly a protest to the system as much creating even more problems through an injection of poisonous duplicity.

Peleus · 10-10-2011 1:30am

Scofflaw wrote: »

And the world will definitely not be saved by people chasing unrealistic and/or imaginary goals in Dame Street.

It was a nice enough little protest, although it initially looked like a street act (and had about the same size crowd), but it's about as useful as the male nipple.

The Irish financial industry, like the US financial industry, is not merely opaque and unaccountable, it is, again like the US financial industry, treated as a sacred cow by the Irish government. It has been poorly regulated and allowed to live not only beyond its own means but on ours, while the economic policy of our country is dictated by an equally deferential response to the power of the international markets.

And what do we get? Student rhetoric, a demand that something that doesn't even exist in the form believed by the protesters is "returned to the people", and a childish protest that we don't want to pay the State's debts. This is cluelessness of a high order. It's a typical Irish version of an international protest, with all the meaningful content replaced with some kind of ignorant whinge - a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

It's only better than nothing if you've nothing better to do.

regards,
Scofflaw

Have you got a better idea. If you don't like what they are suggesting right now, why dont you get off your ass, go down there and ****ing tell them.

Peleus · 10-10-2011 1:41am

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

But this is just more apocalyptic scare mongering. People have saying this since 2008, if it was so true or even a bit or truth, then you see more and more protests with bigger numbers. This protest had what? 30. Plus they were not angry, it seemed like a normal saturday at central bank.

You see more tension when pubs close every night then what these protests pretend to be.

It's a non violent protest, hence the lack of visible anger. The second it becomes violent its over.

meglome · 10-10-2011 1:53am

Peleus wrote: »

Have you got a better idea. If you don't like what they are suggesting right now, why dont you get off your ass, go down there and ****ing tell them.

No offence but they are way off the mark, I'm not remotely convinced they would listen.

We should have protested about the blanket bank guarantee in 2008.
We should have protested about paying some bond holders.
We should have protested about saving Anglo.
We should be pushing the government for financial reform.
We should be pushing the government for political reform.
We should try to get across to our fellow citizens how important it is who we vote for and why.

What these guys in Dame street are doing is missing the point by a wide margin. While sitting in the big financial hole we fell into they are demanding that the hole not exist. It's too ****ing late for that it already exists. An idea based in reality would be to find ways out of the hole. They are demanding we take back resources that for the most party don't exist or haven't been given away.

Sorry but I will support protests about points 4-6, I may well go down there and join in. But I see no good in supporting protests that can not work, ever.

EI_Flyboy · 10-10-2011 2:20am

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Sounds like a lot of empty rhetoric.

If people really supported them, they'd be out there with them from day one. There's nothing stopping anyone. Relatively speaking, going out to camp with a group of like-minded people on Dame Street is perfectly safe. Why isn't the general population joining them?

You may ask why is there more than one political party in this country. Not everyone is the same, we all have different attitudes and different levels of tolerance to injustice(as we see it). The majority of people either think things are fair or at least only so unfair they can let it go with just a grumble. Now in much the same way water doesn't boil all of a sudden but instead as it gradually heats up the odd bubble pops up until more and more bring it to a boil. The protesters are that first bubble and unless the heat they feel is reduced, there will be more of them. If they're suppressed, it may create a more volatile situation.

@Ben Moore: A referendum the government can't ignore! Priceless, you are joking right!? How many referenda have the government ignored in the last twenty years??? I've lost count...!

Scofflaw · 10-10-2011 2:29am

Peleus wrote: »

Have you got a better idea. If you don't like what they are suggesting right now, why dont you get off your ass, go down there and ****ing tell them.

Perhaps because I might get a response like that, given the level of analysis displayed so far by the protesters. Or perhaps because I'm already doing what I think is worthwhile.

charmed,
Scofflaw

Permabear · 10-10-2011 5:39am

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Scofflaw · 10-10-2011 9:06am

Permabear wrote: »

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...

cordially,
Scofflaw

ei.sdraob · 10-10-2011 9:07am

Scofflaw wrote: »

...

cordially,
Scofflaw

...

srsly78 · 10-10-2011 9:18am

I want to start a movement against post signers.

EI_Flyboy · 10-10-2011 9:19am

ei.sdraob wrote: »

...

...

-.-. --- .-. -.. .. .- .-.. .-.. -.--

hatrickpatrick · 10-10-2011 5:53pm

I was there today, I'll be there whenever I can be from now on.

What has happened in this country is criminal. What continues to happen is criminal.

To all those saying "We had no choice but to bail out Anglo", how about this?
How about attaching a condition saying that any bailed out bank (Anglo is now OWNED by the Irish people, remember) is not allowed to pay its executives and directors anything more than the average industrial wage?

Does the idea that your tax money is going into the pockets of millionaires instead of to schools and hospitals not make you sick to your stomach?

Permabear · 10-10-2011 6:13pm

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Permabear · 10-10-2011 7:17pm

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Nolanger · 10-10-2011 7:31pm

Send those losers to Australia.

20Cent · 10-10-2011 9:16pm

Running out of space outside the central bank now. Love how its growing, Sat will be a big day be there if you can. Totally friendly atmosphere, open mike if you want to say anything. All hairstyles welcome.

Permabear · 10-10-2011 9:29pm

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20Cent · 10-10-2011 9:36pm

Series of talks from academics being organised starting with Conor McCabe Author -Sins of the Father tomorrow at 5pm.

hatrickpatrick · 10-10-2011 10:16pm

Scofflaw wrote: »

Perhaps because I might get a response like that, given the level of analysis displayed so far by the protesters. Or perhaps because I'm already doing what I think is worthwhile.

charmed,
Scofflaw

Then why don't you share it with the rest of us? Reading your posts all I get from your comments is resignation, "this is the situation, we're stuck with it, tough sh*t."

I cannot and will never, ever resign myself in that way. What has happened here is fundamentally wrong on so many levels and no one with a shred of conscience could possibly defend it.
While I'm not accusing you of defending it, I do get the impression that you're telling people to accept it and not resist.
Could I offer a rather controversial comparison here and suggest that if you'd been around in the early 1900s with this attitude, you would have told the Irish War of Independence supporters that they were wasting their time and that British rule was invincible, they may as well just stay at home.

History has, in my view, proven this sort of resigned pessimism wrong time and time again.

Permabear · 10-10-2011 10:50pm

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Nate--IRL-- · 10-10-2011 11:00pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Then why don't you share it with the rest of us? Reading your posts all I get from your comments is resignation, "this is the situation, we're stuck with it, tough sh*t."

I cannot and will never, ever resign myself in that way. What has happened here is fundamentally wrong on so many levels and no one with a shred of conscience could possibly defend it.
While I'm not accusing you of defending it, I do get the impression that you're telling people to accept it and not resist.

The point I believe he is trying to make, is that the point of no return for this problem has passed (2008 to be exact). There is no solution, that opportunity is gone, the only choices now are which avenue is going to cause the least damage long term to the country.

Nate

laoch na mona · 10-10-2011 11:30pm

at least it shows the government we are not happy

Permabear · 10-10-2011 11:33pm

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laoch na mona · 10-10-2011 11:38pm

but if we stay quiet were easier to ignore

Permabear · 10-10-2011 11:39pm

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laoch na mona · 10-10-2011 11:41pm

fair point I'm just an optimist

Lukker- · 10-10-2011 11:48pm

Permabear wrote: »

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You suggest they just take whats given to them?

Bannasidhe · 10-10-2011 11:55pm

Permabear wrote: »

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Do they? Is that why they have taken some serious pay cuts in solidarity with the rest of us? Is that why the new PS pension rules won't affect one single person currently employed or elected? Is that why senior civil servants, TDs and county managers will still walk away with obscene pensions? Is that why we subsidise private schools to the tune of 100 million euro a year but are cutting SNAs in National schools....I could go on and on and on...

The government may have a inkling but that have done precious little to demonstrate that the 'pain' is being shared equally...

FG need to realise that they were swept in to power on a wave of anger at FF and can be swept out again just as easily...

Labour need to realise that they were voted in to curb FG to a great extent not fill the role held by the Greens in the last Government.

We have a choice - we can take it on the chin, knuckle down and pay the debts heaped upon us without our permission and accept the 'there's a good [unprotesting] Paddy' comments coming out of Europe or we can stand up for ourselves and demand change. And keep demanding it. Over and over and over until we succeed.
I for one am sick of accepting it and will be attending Occupy Cork next Saturday with my son and my two grandchildren. I am going to fight for a better future for them as my grandparents fought for a better future for me.

‘OCCUPY Wall Street’ protestors on Dame Street

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